Will not Detect AGP Video Card or Modem

[LadyGrey]

Hello Guys and Gals,
I'm in trouble again. My computer, the one I just did all the work on has just gone crazy on me. For awhile now it's been acting not really right, nothing I can put my finger on or explain to you but just not right. Then about a week ago old smarty here got the bright idea of dl Mozilla and playing with that. I played for a day or two and it didn't do what I wanted it to or I just didn't know how to make it, so I uninstalled it. From then on things have been really strange. My Office program all of a sudden wouldn't work so I started on that,ran all adware, antivirus, trojan programs, nothing there, uninstalled and reinstalled, no better, repaired IE just on the off chance it had something to do with that, no better, finally did a repair on W2K itself, then it all went nuts! Nothing would run but my antivirus programs and swat it and adaware, so ran those again, nothing there. I finally decided to just wipe the whole thing and start over, wasn't so long ago that I had done that and all my files and things are on other partitions so no big deal. Now it refuses to recognize my nvidia Gforce card and my Intel V.92 Modem. On POST the video card is there, right at the beginning of POST it says Nvidia Gforce FX 5200 128 MB Ram the whole shmear but after POST, there is nothing. It's not listed in Device Manager, when I put the driver disk in for it it says NOT FOUND. This is basically the same for the Modem too. It tries to query the modem and comes back and says I don't have one. I have already taken the computer apart and reseated everything, I have started in Safe Mode to see if they would be detected there, I have been into BIOS and things seem to be ok, but then again I'm not really sure what I'm looking for so that may be a problem. From the day I fired it up after all the work I did, it has run ok, everything detected and up and going so I'm just at a loss as to what I could have done or didn't do to cause this. Need all the help I can get here!! Thanks very much, LG;)

[Sylvander]

I don't know how much of this you can apply in your circumstances, but:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
RECOVER USING BACKUPS
The easy way to recover from all software [including configuration] problems [without even having to discover the cause], is:

1) As you proceed forward in time, make backups of everything on your C: drive.
Do this at regular intervals, particularly before making software changes [un/installing programs or changing configuration] and keep a log of all this.
2) When you hit trouble caused by a bad configuration change and no hardware or software changes have been made, restore a previous good configuration [if you have some means of doing so].
3) When the trouble involves more than just the configuration, but involves the files [including the configuration perhaps] but no harware has been changed [this is important because the software must match the hardware], then:
----------------------------------------------------------
Re-format the C: drive and restore your latest good backup.
----------------------------------------------------------
The software will "jump back" to the way it was when the PC worked.
If this doesn’t fix things, then it probably is not a software problem but a hardware problem. Restoring is much less work than rebuilding the software. Also, your hardware will have been catered for and the restore will include provision for it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
HARDWARE DETECTED BUT NOT ALLOCATED RESOURCES/NOT ENABLED
The O/S may be disabling some hardware to resolve a resource conflict and that's why you see it detected but it doesn't show in device manager. OR, To go back to an earlier stage:
See this http://www.pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/res/pnpESCD-c.html
and this http://www.dewassoc.com/support/bios/escd.htm
and this http://www.qdi.nl/support/dmipool.htm
regarding “Force Update ESCD”/“Reset Configuration Data”

Assuming that items of hardware were not included in the ESCD, then despite being detected by the BIOS, the ESCD is locked, no resources are being allocated to them and they therefore are not enabled, not included in the hardware tree, and not shown on device manager.

I wonder if an infective agent [virus] could alter the ESCD?
Like you I'm wondering why everything suddenly went haywire when you didn't disconnect hardware and reset the ESCD so that no provision would be made.

I'm grabbing at straws here.

[Sylvander]

See this http://www.pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/res/confl.htm
QUOTE
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
“Tip: If the list of example problems above seems similar to a list of computer viruses symptoms, that's probably because it is. It is not uncommon for a PC that appears to have a resource conflict problem to really be suffering from a virus. Make sure you always check for viruses as the first step in debugging any PC problem.”
“The System BIOS: The system BIOS plays a key role in making Plug and Play work. Routines built into the BIOS perform the actual work of collecting information about the different devices and determining what should use which resources. The BIOS also communicates this information to the operating system, which uses it to configure its drivers and other software to make the devices work correctly.”
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

[LadyGrey]

Sylvander, thank you so very much for your help! I'm trying to understand it all. I'm mostly not at all clear on ESCD?? You've scared me with that one! I run two antivirus programs on my machine,not at the same time, I know enough for that, AntiVir and AVG, both have come up clean from day one so I don't see how in the world it could be a virus, but I ain't no guru either! I'm starting to think hardware failure here but I'm a long way from taking it apart and sending parts back. When I started from scratch I reformatted the whole C partition to FAT32 so I guess it was clean when I reinstalled the OS. Another thing I totally forgot to mention was that in Device Manager I had two yellow questions marks on:
PCI Simple Communications Controller
Video Controller(VGA Compatible)
Error Code 28
I don't know if that makes any difference or not but may give you some more to go on. Don't know why I forgot it but may have been thinking about getting the BBQd ribs on for dinner!:D :rolleyes:
Thanks very much. LG;)

[Budfred]

It would be worthwhile to try booting back into Safe Mode, use Device Manager to remove those marked devices, reboot again and see if you can get the proper drivers installed. If it doesn't work that way, try updating the drivers from within Safe Mode....

[Whyzman]

If that doesn't work, you might want to strip it back and reload the OS once again...Add back one component at a time...

[saphalline]

If it ends up being a hardware problem, the mobo is the first place I'd look in this situation. Simply because your two problem components are expansion cards. Coincidence?...

[Inka]

fyi.. ESCD is Extended System Configuration Data (like anyone is interested in what it stands for!) anyway there will be an option in the bios for it somewhere. Make sure its not locked. When its locked as sylvander mentioned, it will prevent the bios from allocating resources to devices. Which obviously has a knock on effect to the OS which will be unable to allocate resources too.

If its still not working then try BBQ-ing the computer. Might cheer you up :)

[LadyGrey]

I've spent most of the night working on all the things you've told me about.
Budfred I did try to load the drivers in safe mode, but even the driver disk kept saying NOT FOUND. I have not as yet been into device manager and deleted the question marked devices, I've always been terrified of doing something like that but I guess it sure can't hurt anything at this point!:)
Whyzman I've reloaded the OS three times now, each time with the same effect, both video card and modem not found and the yellow question marks for those two devices.
Inka You're a dear, I thought about sticking it in the oven with the ribs, you must be reading my mind!! Anyway, I did find the ESCD in BIOS, it's in PnP/PCI Configuratons and it says Resources Controlled by
and then two options Auto(ESCD) and Manual. When I set it to manual the IRQ resources come up, which I know absoulutly nothing about, and read as follows, IRQ 3,4,5,7,9,10,11,12,14,15 are all saying PCI Device with the only other option Reserved. The only other things on that screen are PCI/VGA Palette Snoop-Disabled
PCI Slot 1/4 IRQ Priority-Auto
PCI Slot 2/5 IRQ Priority-Auto
PCI Slot 3 IRQ Priority-Auto
The only other place I can find anything for AGP is in Advanced Chipset Features.
saphalline I know, the problem just being with the two cards is strange, they are the only two cards. I've got onboard sound now, which by the way I like, it's pretty darn good and without having to mess with SB Live anymore! I'm gonna keep trying suggestions till I exhaust all options before I start packing it up. Seems to me too that it could only be the Mobo with something like this but I guess we will find that out.
Thanks all so much for the help, I'm gonna go work on it some more. I'll let ya know what's happening.
LG;)

[Whyzman]

But, did you strip it back and try one component at a time??

[Sylvander]

I’m still trying to fully understand the [Extended] System Configuration Table myself.
Here’s the state of my knowledge so far:

When first the BIOS detects the hardware connected, it polls the hardware to discover the resource requirements of each item.
It then tries to make non-conflicting resource allocations.
If it can do so, no items are disabled and the allocations are stored in a table in the CMOS memory [the ESCD table]. It may be forced to disable one or more items and this would be recorded there.
These settings are then locked and [if the table remains unchanged] they are used at EVERY startup to configure and enable the hardware.
If there are any non-PnP items, they have first call on any resources and the BIOS tries to make non-conflicting allocations to PnP items using the resources remaining. If two legacy items demanded the same resources there would be a conflict and the BIOS would be unable to resolve it, except by disabling one of the items.
When the BIOS hands over to the O/S it [Windows probably] reads this table To find out which items have been disabled/enabled and what resources allocated. If it disagrees with the allocations it alters them [I think, not too sure] to its preferred arrangement.

If the user were to disconnect items and “Force Update the ESCD” [“PnP/PCI Configuration>Reset Configuration Data = Enabled”], then only those items still connected would be allocated resources and the ESCD re-locked. I think re-setting the BIOS would have the same effect!
If the user then connects some items, these would not be given resources and would be disabled.
To have these new items included in the ESCD and therefore enabled, it would be necessary to “Force Update the ESCD” once again, but with the items [properly] connected and therefore detected.
Sometimes, if a connection is poor [therefore not detected] and the ESCD is force updated [whilst not detected], then those items would be ignored even when the connection was good, because the BIOS [and therefore the O/S] considers they don't exist.
Only the hardware provided resources in the ESCD would be enabled.
I speculate:
That an item disabled by the BIOS which then informs Windows, would have a yellow exclamation mark against it.
That an item not detected by the BIOS would not show at all.
But I’m not too sure of such details. Any help would be appreciated.

[Inka]

Thats pretty much my understanding of the ESCD table too. Funnily enough, did a google search & this came up 1st.

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/res/pnpESCD-c.html

Anyway, in my experience there is usually an option in the bios to 'reset ESCD' or similar. This would force the bios, at its next start up, to search again for all hardware and allocate resources. I assume too that resetting the bios would have the same effect. (guessing)

Coincidental that LG only has 2x PCI devices and neither are working. How about popping it into a different PCI slot? Kinda tricky with the AGP I know but worth a try with the modem at least. Even any other old PCI devices you might have knocking around.. just to see what happens.

If you get the same problem with other PCI cards & slots then I suggest it may be a problem with the PCI bus / mobo / resources for either.

[Sylvander]

If I go to:
"Device Manager>View Devices by Connection", then click on "Computer" and hit "Numlock" and "*" together, the harware tree will expand.
Now, I can see the branch "Plug and Play BIOS\PCI Bus".
This hardware has its resources allocated by the BIOS and is connected to the PCI bus.
I believe this includes all the hardware in the ESCD.
[I hope I'm not wrong in thinking that.]
Lady Gray: If your missing items were normally, or should be, here then we are probably on the correct track.
My Display adapter/display and NIC/Modem are under "PCI Bus".

I vaguely remember, Lady Gray, that you had terrible trouble with resources when you were originally attempting to bring your PC into use.
We were discussing the relative merits of PnP or manual allocation. I was advocating the use of PnP and others were advising that you allocate manually.
That's going back a bit:D :cool:

[LadyGrey]

What a day I've had here.
I got the modem to install, did what Budfred said to try. I thought it would work for the video card too but no way.
I've been to MSI site and got updated system drivers, cleared the CMOS, been in an out of device manager so many times trying so many things and all that combustion produced nothing! I went into BIOS and looked and looked for anything that said ESCD and the only place I found it was in the PnP/PCI the only options were auto and manual. I've tried and tried the driver disk for the card itself and even that says the card is not found. The whole key seems to be this Video Controller and in Device Manager it's under Nvidia nForce2 AGP Host to PCI Bridge.
I've even been into BIOS and disabled 8x support for the card. Got that little tip from the MSI forums. All that did was to change the yellow question mark in manager to a small computer with an exclamation point.
After dinner I'm taking the whole kit and kaboodle out to the kitchen and take the *&(*^ thing apart and put it all back one at a time as Whyzman said. That's always a last resort for me as it really involves a whole mess of trouble.
Oh, one more piece of good news:rolleyes: I'm now getting an error message svchost.exe has generated errors AND I can't get Device Manager to do anything anymore, even close, without rebooting. I"m sorry about the lousy typing, I can't see what I'm doing so just bear with me.
Sylvander I tried what you said and I got the trees extended and even had a option to show hidden devices but I didn't see anything that said
Plug and Play BIOS/PCI Bus. There was a plug and play software device enumerator, and something about NETBIOS but that's all I could see. Thanks very very much, LG;)

[Sylvander]

Here's the problem of us not being right there at your PC.
I know my BIOS settings and motherboard manual and what shows up in my device manager, but not yours.
SOME POINTS
1. ESCD [Configuration Data]
In my BIOS the setting to update the ESCD is at:
PnP/PCI Configuration->Reset Congiguration Data [Enabled or Disabled].
The wording varies depending on the manufacturer of the BIOS.
2. My "Resources Controlled By : Auto" means the BIOS's PnP system is in operation. Perhaps if that is not so set, then "Plug and Play BIOS" doesn't show in Device Manager? [Because those items would not then be under the control of the PnP BIOS?]
If I had it set to "Manual", then a table of IRQ assignments would be displayed in this BIOS screen.
3. I also have set:
"PnP O/S Installed : No"
I used to have this set to yes on the assumption that the BIOS aught to work in co-operation with the PnP O/S. The setting appears to make no difference on my setup. I read somewhere that setting this to "no" makes the BIOS allocate resources and Windows will still over-ride the BIOS if necessary.

In your hardware tree in Device Manager:
What does "PCI Bus" come under?

[Budfred]

With all the tweaking you are doing, I suspect that it is getting to be time to try a clean install again. You could try it with a minimal config and try to load the drivers up front, then add other components and see if you can get those drivers in properly too. I suspect that it is getting to the point where a fresh start might be your only option and it might even be easier and less time consuming than what you are doing now....:rolleyes:

[LadyGrey]

I've worked on this thing till I'm ready to scream but at least I have some news, pretty good for once. I decided to try one last time with a clean install of the OS. This time I did nothing but load the OS all by itself, no Service packs, no mobo drivers, no nothing, just it. I think that's what Budfred had in mind. I had an update for my video card stashed in one of my other partitions and I figured what the hecht, can't do any harm to run it, all it can tell me is that it can't find the card. So, I ran it and rebooted and low and behold the card was recognized. If I had had false teeth they would have hit the floor! I made sure, looked in device manager and there it was just sitting there like it had been there all along. I went for the modem next but still had to go the route of uninstalling the PCI Simple Controller and then it found the modem. So, put that in. Then put in SP4, then tried the mobo drivers and wouldn't let me have that said that ikernel.exe could not be launched and Access was denied. So, booted into safe mode and installed from there. Then went to find my internet connection and it was gone and wouldn't let me set it up again, kept telling me that the name was not right, even the one the computer picked out it wouldn't take. Sooo, went back into safe mode and took out SP4, rebooted and the connection was back and working, sooo went back into safe mode and reinstalled SP4 rebooted and the connection was still there. I know I've burned alot of brain cells in my life but I know I didn't have to go through this when I first put all the new parts in, and all I did was reinstall W2K, I just can't for the life of me figure out why all this happened. I just don't think I should have to boot into safe mode to install things, that just isn't right. At least now I know how to get this up and going so I'm gonna go ahead and take it all down again and unplug everything and go from there one at a time like Whyzman said. There has got to be an underlieing reason for this to be happening and I'm darn sure gonna find out what it is! Would someone one please point me to a good place to start learning about what IRQs are and what they do and how to tell what goes with what and where?? How system resources work and why? Yeah I know, don't want much do I?:D Any way as usual all the support and suggestions I get here keep me from giving up and I get real close sometimes I tell ya! Thanks so much to everyone! If you have any more suggestions or ideas let me know! I just have a gut feeling that this ain't over with yet:rolleyes:
LG;)

[Whyzman]

As you're adding them back, getting them recognized and drivers loaded, if you run into a snag with the PCI...try another slot.

Although IRQs are supposed to be able to be shared :rolleyes: I think most motherboards "hardwire" IRQs to specific slots...(e.g., AGP slots are usually hardwired to PCI slot 1). Since the video cards are going to hog the scene one would do well if using an AGP to put any PCI cards into slots other than numero uno...

In my ASUS A7V133 manual there's an IRQ Allocation Table that outlines the shared slots...

Here's a great read on understanding System Resources:

http://aumha.org/win4/a/resource.php

[LadyGrey]

Sorry I haven't been back to thank you all!! I'm up and running and now working on Donnie's computer. Little demon figured out how to turn off his firewall:rolleyes: so I have a major mess to clean up there.
Whyzman thank you so much for the website, I'm still reading and trying to understand it all. I'm also still trying to figure out how to backup my system. It will take upwards of 9 CD-Rs at least that's what Nero tells me to do a backup of just my C partition. Does that sound right??
I've tried using the backup feature of W2K but for some reason can't get it to work right. Says I need a tape drive or some such thing. I'll get it figured out here eventually I'm sure. Thanks so much for all the help and support! When I get in trouble I know at least I've somewhere to go to get help that really will help!
LG;)

[Budfred]

Windoze backup programs tend to be pretty dumb and don't really allow backups to much of any kind of media. There are a number of free backup programs that will however. How many CDs depends on the size of your C: partition and whether you do a complete backup, use compression or just do a partial. Your best bet might be to use a program like Norton Ghost to make an image of the drive....

For Donnie's computer, feel free to post a HJT log if needed...

[Jhorner1]

LadyGrey
I have been using Backup Plus (http://www.backupplus.net/) for the last 6 weeks. It can backup to removable media or across a network, and allows for scheduled backups. It can be downloaded from the link I provided, has a 30 day free trial, and costs $40 to buy.

[LadyGrey]

All computers are now up and running fine I'm glad to say. Budfred I found a copy of Norton System works that had Ghost on it for 10$ so I got that, it's last years but hey for 10$ I'll take it. I've already made an image of my C partition and I'm just a happy computer person here. I'm not using anything else on it, don't much like Norton, tends to not play nice with any of my machines.:rolleyes: The Ghost seems to be just fine tho, I tested the image too like they said too and it passed so now I've got a real backup that I can run the next time I mess up everything:D Thanks very much for all the help everyone!LG;)

[Sylvander]

Does Ghost allow you to restore your C: drive even when Windows won't boot?
Where is the image kept?
Does it span CD-RW disks?
Does the image only include the used space on the drive, or does it also include the, so called, deleted files?
I've always been curious to know about the differences between Ghost and "Simple Backup".
How about someone giving a simple explanation of what it does and how.