Suggestions Anyone?

[assembly]

Please tell me where to look to find out the speed of my RAM and how to know if it is DDR or SDR. Also, advices about what to do before opening my cpu would be very helpful. I've never opened my com before, I'm afraid to get electricuted or maybe I could trigger something inside that could cause problems, but I want to know how it looks inside so I think I'll take my chances, and the best way to learn is through experience, right?
I'd like your opinion,which of these do you think is best for my com:
replace with:
1. GeForce mx4000 128mb 64bit tv+agp ddr
2. GeForce FX 5200-8x 128mb 64bit ddr tv+agp
3. GeForce4 mx440-8x 128mb 128bit tv+agp ddr
add RAM:
4. 128mb 266mhz. ddr
5. 256mb 333mhz. ddr
6. 512mb 400mhz. ddr
7. 256mb 266mhz. ddr
com specs: D8456BV intel motherboard, Seagate 40Gb HDD, GeForce2 mx400 64mb, P4 1.7Ghz. Intel microprocessor, 256mb RAM(don't know if 2*128mb's or 1*256mb)
Must the speed of my new RAM be the same with my old one if I want to add? Please explain to me all these numbers and letters such as: what does FX mean in GeForce FX? 5200-8x?, AGP?, mx?, 64/128bit?
THANK YOU!!!

[Beta Geek]

Well, as long as you’re venturing into getting some hands-on experience, we’ll have ya identify your RAM by physically examining your modules. ;)

First shut down your comp (yeah, I know, you’re thinking "duh"). Then, if you have a switch on your power supply, turn it off. If not, turn off your surge suppressor. This will cut power to your machine, but leave it grounded. If you can’t do any of those, unplug the computer.

Next, push the power button. This will drain any remaining juice left in capacitors and such. It’s a good idea to disconnect your monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc.

Now grab a trusty screwdriver and open your case. The procedure is different depending of what brand, age, or form factor your case conforms to.

Look inside. Try to identify all the cables and objects. This is a good time to blow out all the dust with some caned air (or a low power air compressor or tech vacuum if you have one).

Make sure you are grounded by touching an unpainted metal area of your case. It’s also a good to not work on any carpets or wear any clothing that promotes static electricity buildup. Those of us who work on computers a lot like to use anti-static wrist straps and some go as far as anti-static floor mats and workbench mats. For the casual non technician who doesn’t really do much work on computers, just being careful to ground yourself and what/where you touch components should be adequate. Try not to touch the electrical contacts of components or the flat surfaces on circuit boards, hold them by the edges, and in the case of expansion cards, by the metal bracket as well.

Once you identify all (or as many) components (as you can), pull out one of your RAM sticks. If you have a newer system (as in, within the past 5 years or so) you should have DIMM RAM. Release it be pushing down on the tabs, one on each end, of the RAM slot. This should more or less pop the module up and leave it sitting unsecured ready for you to grab. Again, try to only touch it by the edges. Now, assuming it is a DIMM module, identify what kind it is. If there are two notches in the line of contacts and 168 pins, then it is most likely PC100 or PC133. If there is only one notch off center and 184 pins, it is a DDR DIMM module.

If there is neither descriptions fits the modules, then you probably have either SIMM modules or RDRAM. I’ll explain those of needs be.

I think I may have gone overboard a little on those descriptions.

Now some explanations:
Whether or not your RAM speed has to exactly mach the old ram depends mostly on the RAM type and motherboard. Most RAM out today is backward compatible (will work with older, slower RAM as long as it’s the same type (obviously you can’t mix PC133 and DDR modules). It also depends on whether you are expanding your RAM or replacing it. If you are keeping your current modules in there, and just adding more, you will be more limited because some brands don’t mix very well with other brands. You should be able to identify the speed and manufacturer by markings the modules themselves.

The FX is just the name that nVidia gave their latest version of the GeForce line of video cards. The next name version down is the GeForce 4. MX is a designation used by nVidia to indicate their budget line of that card. For instance the GeForce 4 MX line is lower-end than the TI flavors.

AGP stands for Accelerated Graphics Port. It is the (usually) brown slot right above the PCI (usually white) slots. It is also shifted further in on the motherboard than the PCI slots. It is specifically dedicated to video cards.

Ok, I think this is post long enough for now. If ya have any more questions or if there’s something I missed or didn’t answer/explain well, don’t hesitate to ask!

[assembly]

Boy do you know a lot, thanx man!
So what do you think? which of the three do you think I should replace my old vid card with? In my receipt, it says "generic twin mos ddr", then there's a 128 here so I'm guessing there are 2*128mb's inside since I have 256mb in my system. By the way, I have an Exodus casing(the one with the useless restart button), it has two exhaust fans but I can't see if any intakes since there's this metal board with lots of holes thingy blocking my sight. How much does this canned air cost? What if I don't have an unpainted metal area in my case? Just to remind you again, I'm adding my RAM, not replacing it.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

Boy do you know a lot, thanx man
Careful now, we still need Beta's head to fit through doorways... :D

com specs: D8456BV intel motherboard
Not coming up with anything for those numbers. Please copy info precisely. Or use This (http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html) and post a few details of what it finds.

You posted this: "generic twin mos ddr" The 'ddr' is a clue, maybe.

We can't advise what to upgrade to until we know what your system is capable of esp. the mobo.

You're afraid to perform open heart surgery aren't you? ;) Esp with a screwdriver! :eek:

If you have 2 sticks of RAM already then you might not be able to add any without at least removing one because there is usually only 2 slots, though sometimes 3 these days. You need to get that screwdriver and take it for a 'spin' so we'll know. Make sure it's just the cover screws you are removing, don't want a power supply to fall onto your expansion cards...

[assembly]

I don't get it, this is what's written on my motherboard's manual, "Intel Desktop Board D845GBV", it's the model, how can you not come up with anything by it's model? When I begin the "open heart surgery", as you say, where can I locate the RAM's? I know, your thinking, "man!, where have you been all this time?", well I can't help it, i'm scrared(newbee), and what's wrong with taking precautions? What is "the mobo"?

[Deagle]

If you look back carefully, the last time you posted the mobo as "D845<b>6</b>BV intel motherboard".
Anyway, if you do indeed have that mobo, then you've DDRAM. Which, like Beta said, is one-notch off to the side. Also from what I can get at this site (http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bv/), your mobo supports pc1600(ddr200) and pc2100(ddr266). The max amount of memory it can hold is 2GB so you have a lot of upgrading options there.

As for the vid card, I'd said the FX5200 from those 3 but I suggest you look for a ti4200, it's better than the FX5200 while the cost is just slightly higher. Of course that's only if you have a budget to follow.

:cool:

[assembly]

So what your saying is that there are up to four slots for RAM for this "mobo"? What is DIMM? What is the difference between DDRAM and SDRAM? Which is better from the two?: GeForce FX 5200-8x 128mb 64bit ddr tv+agp, GeForce FX 5200-8x 128mb w/dvi+crt+tv ddr. What is this "dvi" and "crt"? All these letters and numbers that doesn't make any sense to me is driving me mad! They say too much of something is bad, do you think it applies to having too much RAM? Is it advisable to clean your cpu(inside) with a paint brush?(like using a broom)

[Fruss Tray Ted]

If you've gone to Deagle's link you'll find a line that states that the motherboard has 2 slots for memory sticks and will support up to 2 gigs of RAM.

Depending on your operating system, is what determines how much RAM is too much. (9x means all the similar OS'es like Windows 95, 98, ME) The 9x series cannot handle large amounts of RAM very well, with about 512megs as an example for Win98. If you have 2000 or XP the more you can feed them, the better they like it.

Dual Inline Memory Module

Sdram is older and slower than DDR RAM The 'DDR' is basically 'double data rate'.

If the contractions and abbreviations are confusing you, go to the website of the video card and there should be explanations of the various functions and you'll be able to tell what the abbreviations are then.

Also See here (http://www.cknow.com/ckinfo/) for acronym definitions.

Paint brushes should be ok as long as the metal band that usually holds the bristles doesn't come in contact with any bare electrical points and is static free. I have a 'lense pen' (2 bristle grades, one on each end) that I use from time to time for tough spots or when a suitable air compressor is not available (or I'm being lazy... :rolleyes: ). Clean make-up brushes work too (just don't tell my other half where the missing ones went.. :eek: ).

[saphalline]

Ok, just to clear some things up...

DIMM just refers to the packaging type for modern RAM. Older RAM came in SIMMs = single in-line memory module, which needed to be installed in pairs for Pentium-class processors. SDRAM and DDR SDRAM both come in DIMM packages (just like fruit and vegetables come in cans), so the package info is almost unimportant.

The difference between SDRAM and DDR SDRAM is speed and bandwidth. DDR is faster, works in more modern computers (like yours), and is now cheaper. Go fig. DDR comes in many "flavors" or speeds: PC1600, PC2100, PC2700, and PC3200. There are also many unofficial speeds (like PC2400) for overclocking purposes, but I'd stay away from those unless you intend to OC heavily.

Which is better from the two?: GeForce FX 5200-8x 128mb 64bit ddr tv+agp, GeForce FX 5200-8x 128mb w/dvi+crt+tv ddr.The second one is better, because it has the full 128-bit RAM bus width. DVI stands for digital video interface and it refers to the connector used by digital displays such as LCD panels. CRT stands for cathode ray tube and refers to standard tube monitors and other displays with an analog VGA connector.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

From link above

AGP connector supporting 1x, 2x, and 4x AGP cards (1.5 V only) or an AGP Digital Display (ADD) card
So the video cards you are looking at wont work because they are AGP8x. You'll need to look for some 4x cards.

[assembly]

Fruss Tray Ted: I'm using WIN98, am I reading you right? Are you saying that the maximum RAM I can feed to my com is only 512MB/2*256MBs? How did you know that I need AGP4x for my vid card? Is it because of my motherboard? Please explane, I don't wanna buy things not knowing if it'll be using for me, I'm low on budget(don't have a job yet).

To all: I've finally opened up my com and for two years of using, I find it clean, even without an intake fan. I took a look at the RAM's and one says PC2100 128mb ddr/cl2(kingston) and the other one KVR266X64C25/128. Again, please(100x) explane, what is PC2100 Saphalline says it's the speed so what about those 266mhz., 333mhz., etc...? And what is "CL2"? And for the second one, I don't understand a $#%$&^(*% thing! As I've said before, I'm low on budget so which do you think should I upgrade first, memory or vid card? I've read a phrase in my motherboards manual which says "D845GBV is only compatible with 1.5V AGP cards", so how will I know that I'm buying a 1.5V AGP card?
I know your all probably irritated with all my qustions by now, but please bear with me for just a little longer. THANK YOU

[Paleo Pete]

Are you saying that the maximum RAM I can feed to my com is only 512MB/2*256MBs?

Yep...After 512MB Win98 runs out of virtual cacheing addresses, and doesn't have a way to effectively use the RAM above that amount. so while theoretically Win98 can handle up to 2GB RAM (or is it 4?), in reality 512MB is the limit. After that Windows starts running really flaky, crashing a lot, locking up...you get the picture...

How did you know that I need AGP4x for my vid card?

Deagle's post above has a link to the Intel site with specs for that motherboard. FTT quoted that site.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here...

As far as I know most video cards should be backward compatible, so an 8X card might work - notice I said might - but will only work at 4X if it does. If it were me I'd go for an older 4X card, it should be cheaper than newer 8X cards, and unless you're into serious gaming or heavy graphics-intense work, a 4X card should be plenty for most home use.

You're confused? I have a hard time keeping up with what's happening in hardware...seems they throw new gizmos at us almost every day...

PC2100 etc is the naming convention used for the DDR RAM. PC100, PC 133 etc were already in use for SDRAM, so modifying the naming method a bit let them stick with the PCxx format and have a label that sets it apart from older SDRAM at the same time.

Checking Deagle's post again, he says (and he'd better be right since I'm quoting it...hehe) PC2100 is 266MHz and PC 1600 is 200MHz. (I thought PC1600 was 166MHz...could easily be wrong though...) That means your PC2100 Knigston RAM is running at 266MHz. MHz means megahertz. (Same term used to denote CPU speed.) One MHz is one million cycles per second. So 266 of 'em would be 266 million cycles per second. That means it is capable of reading and writing that many times per second.

CL2 is the Column Access Strobe latency, which I can't really describe accurately. Click Here (http://www.sysopt.com/articles/latency/) for a good write up about it.

You can also look up a lot of good info here on the PC Guide (http://www.pcguide.com/topic.html). The section on memory is very good.

Sorry about the guesswork, I usually look it up but it's late, I have a headache and feel like a large truck just ran over me...so I didn't take time to look up some things I really should have, and took a couple of educated guesses instead. If any of it is incorrect, some of these folks will certainly come along and point it out.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

Better to be Safe (http://www.directron.com/15agpguide.html) than sorry. The article states that older cards work in newer slots most times and 4x and 8x should be interchangeable but the slower slot will dictate the speed of the card.

But also it states that the 845 chipset needs 1.5 volts or damage could occur. I wouldn't risk it esp. if on a limited budget. Besides, even if it did work with newer fancier cards, the extra cost of the card would be wasted due to the older slot throttling the card down to older technology anyway.

Synopsis:
Start looking at 4x video cards. Find an affordable one and be happy with it. :)

[assembly]

Is GeForce mx4000 128mb 64bit a 1.5V AGP card? How will I know that a vid card is 4x? There's something I don't understand, it says that D845GBV boards have two DIMM sockets supporting 2.5 V (only) 184-pin 200/266 MHz Double Data Rate (DDR), it also says that the maximum total system memory is 2 GB, so how can you have a total of 2 GB of memory if you only have two sockets?(not unless there is a 1024MB RAM stick) What are ECC DIMMs? What do you think would happen if I put in a RAM with speed higher that 266Mhz.? What's the use of downloading the latest BIOS updates? Where can I find the BIOS settings? What OS is recommended if your a game freak? Is a chipset part of the motherboard or is it the processor?

[pave_spectre]

so how can you have a total of 2 GB of memory if you only have two sockets?(not unless there is a 1024MB RAM stick)

1024MB sticks are currently available so 2gig is possible with two slots.

What are ECC DIMMs?

ECC stands for Error Checking Code, and is a type of RAM used when data integrity is extremely important. For a desktop system it is usually unneccesary.

What do you think would happen if I put in a RAM with speed higher that 266Mhz.?

It will probably run at the slower speeds that the motherboard can handle.

What's the use of downloading the latest BIOS updates? Where can I find the BIOS settings?

BIOS update can improve the behaviour of certain elements as well as add extra support for things like faster processors or faster RAM. The settings in BIOS are usually accessed immediately after switching the computer on by pressing del or on of the F keys.

[saphalline]

Is GeForce mx4000 128mb 64bit a 1.5V AGP card? How will I know that a vid card is 4x?AGP 4x = 1.5V = AGP 2.0 spec. I know it's all very complicated, but a GF4 MX card should be an AGP 4x card. If you don't know about a specific card, just ask. But the problem with asking general questions is that you get answers that begin with "that depends..." :p

What are ECC DIMMs?ECC stands for Error Correcting Code. That's my only quibble with pave_spectre answer. ;)

What OS is recommended if your a game freak?That depends... :rolleyes: For DOS games, Win9x is better, even with the 512MB RAM limit. For the latest games that require DX9, WinXP is better, but requires more modern hardware.

Is a chipset part of the motherboard or is it the processor?A chipset is the set of chips that support a particular processor and RAM config. Mobo's use a certain chipset for these reasons, but often times, the chipset manufacturer and mobo manufacturer are different. You happen to have an Intel mobo, so Intel made your chipset and mobo.

The processor, or CPU, is entirely different. It's the main chip in your computer that does all the computing for your system. You have an Intel Pentium4 at 1.7GHz. CPU's are designed to be upgradable, as in you can take out your current one (from your mobo) and (hopefully) put in a faster one. Your mobo will probably take up to a P4B 3.06 (Intel's site is unresponsive right now).

[pave_spectre]

Originally posted by saphalline
ECC stands for Error Correcting Code. That's my only quibble with pave_spectre answer. ;)


I have seen it written as both so I usually call it by whichever name pops into my head first.:p



Even for gaming with some older games I would be inclined to go with XP, since it does have a compatability mode for older stuff. Not all the time but when it works it works surprisingly well.

[assembly]

For the latest games that require DX9, WinXP is better, but requires more modern hardware.

What do you mean by moderm hardware?

Can anybody post a picture of a chipset?

Somebody told me that new OS's are not advisable for use yet ,because there are still a lot of imperfections or bugs, that's why there is the 2nd ed(such as WIN98), these are the versions that are revised with less bugs.

I have my vid card driver installed, I'm doing a test on some things, I borrowed my firend's 128mb vid card to see how much the performance would improve, my question is that: is it ok to install my friend's driver without removing/deleting mine or will the system be confused?

[pave_spectre]

Originally posted by assembly
What do you mean by moderm hardware?

Some older hardwae such as the Gforce4MX series of video cards do not have DirectX9 support. While they may run with DirectX9 you would not get the full benefits that DX9 is supposed to provide for graphics. Newer cards like the GforceFX series and Radeon cards do have DX9 support.

Somebody told me that new OS's are not advisable for use yet ,because there are still a lot of imperfections or bugs, that's why there is the 2nd ed(such as WIN98), these are the versions that are revised with less bugs.

98 second edition wasnt just a load of bug fixes it also improved the functionality of some things(Ok maybe you could call that a bug fix).

If you never used an OS because of bugs then you will never use an OS.
Just make sure that you keep it updated with security patches on a regular basis and install the Service Packs that are available for whichever OS you choose.

[saphalline]

pave_spectre - I have also seen it written as both, but the problem is that ECC doesn't just check for errors, it was designed to correct them. ECC's predecessor was and still is called parity. Parity is nice, because it can detect the most common types of errors on a byte-per-byte basis, but the problem is that when parity detects an error, it tells the BIOS to shut down the PC! :eek: That's not something you want to happen all the time to modern OSes like Windows (they don't like that), so ECC was designed to correct simple errors and let Windows mess up on its own. :p

assembly - Modern hardware is a floating term, but right now, I consider any system at 800MHz or greater to be "modern". Basically my criteria is that modern hardware is totally compatible with any other piece of hardware that is new. An 800MHz system is able to work with the latest video cards, sound cards, Windows OS, etc. Likewise, any 32MB video card works with the latest processors, mobos, etc. That's what I consider to be modern hardware, but others may have differing opinions.

Pictures of chipsets? They look like a bunch of chips. That's all they are. It's kind of like looking at a cake (bear with me, I'm hungry) - cakes are good and they look nice, but looking at the "cake base" (flour) is a bit boring. There are many different types and quality of flour, and it's an important decision to make in any cake, but once it's out of the package, all flour looks the same.

Ok, whoever told you that info on using older OSes is a cheap ba$tard! Sure, new OSes have their growing pains, but after a couple months the new OS is often safer than the old ones! Win98SE is a great OS, I still use it for older systems, but it's too limited and too vulnerable to rely on for my main system. For one thing, I need more than 512MB of RAM! For another thing, a lot of high-end apps and games work better with the extra security and customizability that 2000 and XP provide. Finally, maybe you haven't noticed but 98SE is no longer updated on MS's site!

[assembly]

Some older hardwae such as the Gforce4MX series of video cards do not have DirectX9 support. While they may run with DirectX9 you would not get the full benefits that DX9 is supposed to provide for graphics. Newer cards like the GforceFX series and Radeon cards do have DX9 support.

Can you tell me what site has infos on vid cards, all vid cards if possible.

Saphalline - ok, your cake explanation was a bit confusing, instead of me thinking about chips(computer), I see chocolate chip cookies(come to think of it, I'm getting hungry myself).

I have my vid card driver installed, I'm doing a test on some things, I borrowed my firend's 128mb vid card to see how much the performance would improve, my question is that: is it ok to install my friend's driver without removing/deleting mine or will the system be confused?

Why is it that all of the new vid cards, specifically GeForce FXes), only support 8x, and what is 8x, is that the speed?

[saphalline]

Sorry, I tend to get caught up in my analogies. And my hunger. :D The point I'm trying to make is that choosing a chipset is important, but they're not individualized like a mobo. Each mobo is different, but many mobo's can be based on the same chipset. The chipset is the same for all the mobo's, so it doesn't matter what a chipset looks like, only its features. Look inside your own computer. Besides the CPU, do you see all those chips on the mobo? That's the chipset.

Come to think of it, CPU's aren't all that exciting to look at, either...

It depends. Who made the video chipsets for both cards? If they're the same (ie both ATI) then you should be safe with the latest reference driver. If one is ATI and one is NVidia, you'll have to uninstall/reinstall drivers every time you swap them.

Orion and I have most of our tech info up on our website. Check it out here (www.sheaiden.com/).

[assembly]

I've finally opened my pc box! I got 2 sticks of 128 RAMs, one is generic, one is branded, it only has two slots so I can't add, but I can replace with more RAM in just one stick(hehehe). I may have already asked this question but I might as well ask again to clear things up, is it true that branded RAMs dont work as well as generics? If your a game freak, what should you upgrade first, video card or more RAM? Do fans have different sizes? My friends says even if your mobo can only support RAMs with speeds of 266 and you feed it with RAMs with higher speed, its ok but the speed it provides wont be the higher but only up to 266, is that true?

[Paleo Pete]

OK, lots of good info here. Nice goin guys...

Picture of a chipset...well, not exactly, but if you check the Component ID (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25502) thread, and look at the picture of the RAM slots, you'll see two square, black IC chips behind them and to the left. Those are two of the "chipsets" on that motherboard. On;y one is actually THE chipset, but many boards have several IC chips that are similar except for the numbers printed on them.

That same thread should have some other good pictures to help you figure out what else is "under the hood".

I think I remember the comment "boy you sure know a lot" somewhere earlier in this thread...that's a pretty common thing around here, we have a great crew and a BUNCH of them know a whole lot. I'm usually pretty pleased with the way these folks handle questions, but now and then one like this comes along that's really impressive.

ECC

ECC (either "error correction [or correcting] code" or "error checking and correcting") allows data that is being read or transmitted to be checked for errors and, when necessary, corrected on the fly. It differs from parity -checking in that errors are not only detected but also corrected. ECC is increasingly being designed into data storage and transmission hardware as data rates (and therefore error rates) increase.

Copied from Here (http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid7_gci212028,00.html). Looks like a pretty good description, and basically the same as has already been offered, but I thought I'd confirm it with a link...

And the good ol' PC Guide (http://www.pcguide.com/ref/ram/index.htm) System Memory section has this to say about it:

Parity checking provides single-bit error detection for the system memory, but does not handle multi-bit errors, and provides no way to correct memory errors. An advanced error detection and correction protocol was invented to go a step beyond simple parity checking. Called ECC, which stands for error correcting circuits, error correcting code, or error correction code, this protocol not only detects both single-bit and multi-bit errors, it will actually correct single-bit errors on the fly, transparently. Like parity checking, ECC requires a setting in the BIOS program to be enabled.

Ok, so what does ECC REALLY stand for??? :eek: :D