Rate this Home Office System Please.

[drdan]

My friend is getting ready to start a home business doing what she has be employed for which is research for mortgage companies. She has seen that her productivity can be significantly affected by the speed of the computer and wants to be able to have several processes going at once without too much lag. Money is a factor but she is willing to spend to get what she needs. I have the basic system (no monitor) on the wish list below. She is all right with the cost so far (I'm not charging labor). I wanted the hyper threading to run more than one process at the same time. This system will be set up with two monitors to increase productivity further. This pretty similar to the sytem I currently have which seems very stable and fast to me. Any suggestions would be welcome and specifically I'd like opinions on:

1. Any other motherboard suggestions? I want most of the features on this board but want stability, reliability over everything else.

2. Any other dual monitor cards suggested? I don't think she needs great 3D for anything.

3. Suggestions on monitor. I mainly want good text, easy on the eyes for long periods. She has one crt monitor now. I don't know if crt or flat panel would be best for the main monitor here.

http://secure.newegg.com/app/WishHistoryReview.asp?position=HISTORY&submit=VIEW&ID=677899

[saphalline]

This system will be set up with two monitors to increase productivity further.This was my first suggestion while I was reading! :D

1. Any other motherboard suggestions? I want most of the features on this board but want stability, reliability over everything else.I have the Abit IS7, but I honestly have nothing bad to say about MSI - they're one of my favorite mobo manufacturers. That said, if you want reliability over everything else, an Intel mobo is the way to go (but pricey!). Intel's D865PERLL retail is a whopping $125 including shipping! :eek: That's as much as an i875P-based mobo from the others! I would personally go with the MSI or Abit or similar. The price difference that Intel demands isn't enough to justify the small piece of mind it would give. I've never had a problem with any good quality non-Intel mobo's.

2. Any other dual monitor cards suggested? I don't think she needs great 3D for anything.Yeah, yikes!! A bit expensive if all you want is dual-mon. I rumaged around and found a nice Asus GeForce FX 5200 with a DVI-to-VGA dongle included (two VGA's basically) - Asus V9520/TD 128MB for only $86 w/shipping. It does have good 3D performance, but that's just not something you can't include nowadays. :p

3. Suggestions on monitor. I mainly want good text, easy on the eyes for long periods. She has one crt monitor now. I don't know if crt or flat panel would be best for the main monitor here.For anyone who's doing non-gaming work, I would recommend a flat-panel (LCD) monitor. Yes, they're more expensive, but the energy savings, lack of radiation being pelted at your eyes :p, and sheer 2D bliss make up for it. They also have no geometric distortion and the latest versions have all but eliminated the yucky "ghosting effect" that plagued early LCD's. A nice 17" LCD will give your friend a wonderful visual experience with the new PC.

[Steve]

That seems like a good motherboard. I just got one last week. :) But if it's stability and reliability, over all else, that you want, I might go with the Intel D865PERL. $97 at Newegg.

Seeing that speed is a major concern, I'd definately put in more RAM. 512MB minimum. In order to take advantage of the dual channel feature on that MSI board, you would need two sticks of RAM anyway. Might as well get 2 256MB sticks.

What is she planning on using for backup? A backup system is usually pretty important on business machines. Maybe a second 80gig HDD would be in order.

EDIT: ooops. I see you already got the RAM up there. I need to read a little closer...;)

[drdan]

Thanks, guys these are exactly the kind of inputs I need. Please keep 'em coming.

I really got the Matrox for myself because I wanted good 2D for editing digital photos. I have been impressed with it in terms of picture quality which I expected but it also seemed to make my whole system faster. Still I don't want to pay for something if there is no advantage. Would you think the ASUS video card you mentioned is just as relible and stable? Text clarity just as good?

Good suggestion on the backup too. I have set up automatic online backups for my office data and will probably suggest that to her. Easy and there is a backup offsite in case of fire etc. A second hard drive would be a good idea for keeping Ghost or Drive Image system backups to quickly get up and running if there is some kind of system problem or crash.

[saphalline]

I originally wanted to post this as an edit, but my internet connection gave out right after I posted! :mad:

If price becomes a concern, drop the CPU speed down to 2.6 or 2.4 GHz. In the large scheme of PC performance, your friend won't need an extra 200-400 MHz.

The case looks good, but something I would suggest for a business system: fan filters. Anything from cheese cloth to humidifier filters will work wonders to keep the dust out, as will elevating the case from the floor (3 or 4 inches does wonders!). Dust is a concern with any PC, but gamers tend to open up and clean out on a regular basis, while most other users don't really think about it. :p

The Intel D865PERL is indeed cheaper, but that's because it lacks onboard LAN! :eek: Unacceptable for a modern system!

If you want good 2D quality but want it for cheaper than Matrox, ATI is good (better at 2D than NVidia but both are good). The Gigabyte GV-R92128DH is a Radeon 9200 128MB for $72. Not as good in 3D performance as the GF FX 5200, but 2D is important here. I picked the Gigabyte because they're an excellent manufacturer and theirs includes a fan! Important for business-oriented systems that typically don't have tons of fans. :rolleyes:

I would also recommend some kind of back-up service. CD-RW back-ups are cheap but not usually automatic (unless you keep the disc in the drive all the time but then you can't use the drive). Hard drive back-ups are better, but you'll have to make a separate partition for it. Steve brings up a very good point about using a second hard drive for back-ups. It's not a good idea to use the primary HDD for backing up because if it fails, the back-up is gone, too! Get another cheap 40-80GB hard drive for back-ups (you only need 1-4GB for the back-up partition) and use the rest as a second hard drive (once you've tasted a 2nd drive you never want to go back!).

[drdan]

I appreciate the great advice, as usual here. I've done some more research on the dual monitor thing since I posted. I guess where I'm coming from is not wanting ANY problems with a computer used for high dollar business by someone who can't tweak it or diagnose it if somethings not working right. If this person gets her business going the way she anticipates, a day or two of downtime could cost her hundreds of dollars. I checked the reviews on the Asus card. Some people loved it but 3 of 5 reviews had some reference to being disappointed or having some problem. I use a lower end ASUS card in my home computer and it works fine. This isn't just a home or gaming computer though.

This is the ASUS reviews
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=14-121-149&depa=0

Then I ran across the post below on some discussion board. Probably overstated and she won't need autocad of course but it makes me think. Personally, for a business computer like this I'm willing to spend an extra $80 of her money if there is even a moderate chance of more reliability, durability or compatibility. Is this reasonable or am I just being too cautious? Or maybe the quote below is mostly BS, I really don't know. It was people on this board that first recommended Matrox to me and I have been very pleased with my P650.


"Mar 26 2004, 01:32 PM

Let's see, the difference between nVidia, ATI, and Matrox. nVidia is the fastest/cheapest for 3D, but it is very difficult to get AutoCAD to work with it (crashes all the time due to poorly written graphics drivers) (their linux drivers are also poor). ATI has the best cool graphics functions built into hardware, nifty shaders, bump mapping, etc. Matrox is the most durable, most likely to just work, and has the best drivers, best linux support, and the only video card manufacturer condoned by AutoDesk to work with their programs. All others have, crash and loose data bugs related to their drivers. Don't bother trying to run OrCAD with an nVidia either, bad bad bad. It dies and looses all your work. I remember it used to crash and corrupt the files you were working on to boot. Very bad. Use Matrox, not nVidia, unless you want to play games, for the cheapest price and don't mind fiddling to get it to work.

So, the answer is: for 'text and video' it's Matrox all the way. ATI and nVidia are in the 3d-rendering realm."


I also thought about maybe the Matrox G550 dualhead. It may have Matrox reliability for less money. Still seems like the P650 is more bang for the buck to me. My impression is that most video cards are going for the best gaming performance for the least money in a very competitive market. Matrox is geared more for reliability and 2d rendering for professionals even though the price/performance ratio is lower. If that's really true, that's what I want.
http://www.matrox.com/mga/products/mill_g550/home.cfm

Thanks for letting me bounce all this off of you guys, it really helps. I hope it doesn't seem like I'm arguing or ignoring your advice.

Just to confuse things further, what about the Quadro series. Any in this price range (under $160) that are good and can run two monitors.

[drdan]

My second choice for a case was an Antec Sonata which comes with a True 380. I went with the other case and power supply instead as I saw some people thought the cooling/ventilation was inadequate in the Sonata. Anyone have experience with this case?

Any specific recommendations on a 17" LCD monitor?

[Steve]

I guess where I'm coming from is not wanting ANY problems
Hehe...Who does? You just go with the odds.

Last year I put together a computer for my daughter. Intel chip (P4 2.4ghz) on an Intel board (D845PESV) with a Matrox video board (Parhelia) and it has been running for a year with no problems. It's a real workhorse. I'm putting together another business machine this weekend and it's going to be Intel on Intel.

I've had good luck with the combo.

[saphalline]

I agree with that excerpt to a certain extent. It's true that gaming cards aren't really geared towards superb 2D output. ATI and NVidia don't spend any money on 2D development anymore - I dare say their 2D engines haven't changed since the Rage/TNT era! :eek: Matrox and 3DLabs are the only ones who spend money on 2D dev these days (but Matrox is better). If you want to spend the extra money, I see no problems with the Matrox P650 (the G450/550 is a bit too old). I only mentioned ATI and NVidia options if you wanted to save money.

The part of the excerpt that concerns me is the comparison of gaming cards for CAD work. That's unfair. Both ATI and NVidia have CAD/workstation cards that offer CAD-oriented drivers (which of course stink for gaming). NVidia has their Quadro series and ATI has their Fire GL series. And if you want the best for CAD (IMO) 3DLabs' Wildcat series is the way to go.

I'd have to say that Matrox would be my first choice for the absolute best in 2D image quality. Again, I only mentioned the others for money savings.

The Antec Sonata? Simply put, don't get it. I don't have personal experience with it, but I've read many reviews on it and they all say the same thing - bad airflow/cooling. With all the "safe" choices you're making for this PC, you don't want to add heat problems to the mix. By the way, I meant to ask, does that Chieftec case you picked out have a 92mm fan placement? I see you have two on the list and was wondering where you would put that.

Another point about fans - temp controlled fans aren't ideal for all situations. If you put them up front, they won't do much good since it doesn't get hot enough in front for them to spin at max speed (even if the system is overheating). They're best for rear placements, but I still wouldn't trust them for a system like this. Standard dual ball bearing fans are what I like for max reliability.

One other thought. Have you thought about a media card reader for this system? Don't know if your friend would need one, but they come in quite handy! Internal models are available, but there are some awesome external USB 2.0 models that are worth a look (like Atech's PRO-9 beige/black for $40 including shipping).

Anything else? :D

[classicsoftware]

Let me weigh in on the backup.

Get either an external USB or firewire drive or if money is no object get a promise IDE or SATA raid controller and a removable hard drive insert with 2 additional hard drives. The drives are swapped into an external 5.25" drive bay every day. For 30.00get a copy of second copy 2000 and the system can be set to copy the data from the hard drive to the removable drive. You just swpa drives every day. The backup is noncompressed and can be used in any computer.

[drdan]

I know the video card advice was good, I got the exact same advice from a couple of other people. I'm kind of arguing to see if my thinking is correct. Looks like most of the dual head video cards would work in this application. She doesn't need superior 2D like I wanted for photo editing. I was more attracted to the reliability and compatibility ratings. Anyway I got a better feel for the video card options which is what I was after, not sure what I'll actually get yet.

Thanks for the advice on the Sonata. I saw a couple of reviews that indicated cooling problems also, so this confirms it.

Newegg has changed the description of the case since I made up the wish list. The original description I saw said it had slots for 2 92mm fans and 2 80mm fans. I just read another review that said slots for 4 92mm fans and 2 80's. I just went to the chieftec site and it said 2 90mm fans and 2 clips so you could use 80mm fans. I looked at the pictures and it looks like there are six prebuilt places for fans. 2 front, 2 rear and one on each side panel. That's my main complaint with Chieftec, very poor instructions and documentation. I have an almost identical case with my main computer, aluminum instead of steel and less fans (1 front, 2 rear, 1 side) and my 2.4 P4 stays at 36-38C most of the time with less noise than many computers I've had. Very roomy case to work in also.

So I guess if I go with this case I'll order it first and then decide what fans I need once I see it and measure the slots. It got very good reviews for cooling and I figured with that many fans, none would have to be high rpm. Any specific suggestions for quiet fans?

I have bought several of the cheap Thermaltake temp controlled fans and they seem to work all right if I place the sensors carefully. I mainly stick the temperature sensors of even the front fans into the fins of the CPU heatsink and video card heatsink. They have been keeping my Athlon 2500+ with stock heatsink and fan below 40C with minimal noise. Would using temperature controlled fans be a potential danger if the CPU fan is separately controlled from the motherboard and temperature alarms set appropriately? The MSI Corecenter (Corecell? I can't remember the name)seems to monitor things well.

[Bullman]

I am just adding this in here in case it may help (Given I am still a PC newbie, this maybe nothing of importance). I noticed you wanted to use the Hyperthreading feature of the CPU. The mobos I have always looked at have always had a mention that they are designed for Hyperthreading, I did not notice anything about HT on the one linked to. Any answer to this may also help me in the future cause I am interested in HT on my next setup.

[drdan]

That motherboard is HT compatible. I think any of the 865 or 875 boards are. Here is a link to the board I have selected.

http://www.msicomputer.com/product/detail_spec/product_detail.asp?model=865PE_Neo2-LS&search_text=865G%20Neo2-LS#

[drdan]

Okay, here is the current incarnation. Looks like this is going to happen as she seems to be making a lot of money in her business and wants to start working from home. She is pumped about the two monitor thing as she spends a lot of time now minimizing and maximizing screens so she can go back and forth between projects.

Will probably get a flat panel monitor with this and another hard drive for backups. Again, important data backup will be online as well. Still may go with another video card. This is exactly the case and power supply I put together for my system last summer in different color. I can confirm it's roomy, sturdy and keeps things cool. I just need to confirm this big case will fits where she plans to keep it.

For wish list go to top of thread, changes are reflected. Ignore signature below, that's my current system.

[classicsoftware]

As for the backup, if you are going to do hard drive backup, I would recoomend you do either an esternal USB or fireware drive or if there is a large amount of data, I would go with a removable hard drive. For data backup, I would use second copy 2000 (http://www.centered.com/)