The Ultimate Solution

[poordevil]

Anyone have any experience with liquid cooling? I really think liquid cooling is going to become standard in a few short years. It seems to me to be the only viable solution to hot running CPUs. I don't have anything fancy for a PC, no overclocking or anything, and my computer is getting so hot it shuts down. It is an AMD 3000+ on a ASUS A7V333. At idle the CPU runs at around 70c. That is where it is right now according to my ASUS Probe. When I put the system under stress it will start climbing immediately. While playing a demanding title like Far Cry on a warm day the system will just shut down from over heating.

I tried taking off the side panel and placing the computer up aganist an open window with a nice breeze blowing through. It is evening now and the comp is holding steady at 70c. The ASUS probe threshold is set at 76c, which is their default setting. That doesn't leave much head room for increased heat.

It seems to me that fans are just not going to be able to keep up with all the increased heat that is bound to be created by screaming new hardware. Faster CPUs and GPUs translate into higher running temps, there is no getting around it.

So I am seriously considering setting up this comp with a liquid cooling system.I was hoping for some imput on liquid cooled computers. Has anyone here built one or use one? What kind of hurdles will a liquid cooled system bring to upgrading? Any good reason to avoid liquid cooling and stick with fans?

Poordevil

[PrntRhd]

Three Cs are against it:
Complexity
Cost
Condensation

If you can get past those, go for it.

Better than stock HSF units, lapped to match the CPU, and Artic Silver will bring CPU temps down and still allow air cooling. Better placement of case fans is very helpful also. Smaller CPUs that use less power will mitigate some of the heat generation in newer processor designs, IMHO.

[poordevil]

Complexity: I won't build it. I will take it to a shop. I have a pretty good one I use close by. But I don't know how experienced they are with installing liquid cooling systems.

Cost: I haven't considered cost much. Mostly I am looking at need and solution.

Condensation: This could be trouble. We don't need driping moisture on the hardware that's for certain.

[Budfred]

If you are running at 70C, something is wrong and getting fancy cooling would only stall inevitable collapse.... You need to find out why the system is running so hot. As PrntRhd indicated, it is most likely a bad seal on the heatsink and CPU with whatever thermal compound was used, a faulty heatsink or something similar. It is also possible that your sensor is shot, but that would be less likely. Are you certain this is not 70F??

[Whyzman]

I'm not up on the newer names for the AMDs...is this a Prescott??

We just had someone the other day with a Prescott experiencing problems with heat...

I would suggest pulling and storing the stock sink and fan and getting something like a copper finned sink that would support an 80mm fan...

Lap the sink and use some Artic Silver for the interface...

[poordevil]

The proc is an Athlon XP3000+

I could look into a better heat sink and Artic Sliver. If this is running unusually hot then I should try a better heat sink. I thought I was running at a temp that was pretty normal.

"Are you certain this is not 70F??" Yea pretty sure. The comp has actually shut down from getting hot. Not freeze up, but turn completely off and not be able to boot back up until it sits and cools down for a few minutes.

[Whyzman]

I guess the Prescott's are Pentiums...:rolleyes:

It looks like this is a Barton core...I would suspect that something is awry with your sink CPU interface...

Do you remember removing a film that might have been protecting the thermal pad before you installed??

[malcore]

You could try dual cascade cooling. (http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=618&s=18) ;) :p [boggles the mind, the lengths some go to (time and money) just to post a high benchmark score. Hehe, I guess it's the getting there that's fun.]

70 at idle is too high for your chip. There are a few threads just below yours in this forum about cooling down hot systems. There are ways to bring that temp down by about 15 degrees or more, using nothing more fancy than air.

[poordevil]

"Do you remember removing a film that might have been protecting the thermal pad before you installed??"

I didn't put this together. I took it in to my local PC shop and had it upgraded.

"70 at idle is too high for your chip. There are a few threads just below yours in this forum about cooling down hot systems. There are ways to bring that temp down by about 15 degrees or more, using nothing more fancy than air."

I guess I had better get on it and install a new heat sink before I burn this puppy up. I will do it myself this time...

"Lap the sink" I don't know what that means, lap the sink. Any links to a site that shows step by step how to install a heat sink properly? I have never done it before, but I am not nervous about trying it if I have some good instructions to follow.

[pave_spectre]

Originally posted by poordevil
"Lap the sink" I don't know what that means, lap the sink. Any links to a site that shows step by step how to install a heat sink properly?

Lapping is the process of sanding the surface of the heatsing to remove tiny imperfections that degrade the thermal conductivity.

http://overclockersclub.com/heatsinklappingguide.php

Combined with a good thermal paste, it can have a significant effect on CPU temps.

[poordevil]

Okay, thanks for that link. That is the first I have ever heard of lapping. It seems to address the surface of the heat sink but not the surface it adheres to. Also, it seems that thermal paste really doesn't do the job of filling and sealing if lapping is necessary.

[Budfred]

The thermal paste is to fill microscopic imperfections, but a lot of heatsinks are cupped due to the casting process and the paste can't fill in that large a gap... Even if you put enough paste to fill in a gap like that, it would still not conduct heat as efficiently as a very thin layer on paste between the CPU and a very flat heatsink....

[jlreich]

Originally posted by poordevil
Any links to a site that shows step by step how to install a heat sink properly? I have never done it before, but I am not nervous about trying it if I have some good instructions to follow.



Here (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869_4348%5E6678,00.html) is a link to AMD's site. It has videos showing you how to remove and install heatsinks and procesors.

Hope that helps.

[PrntRhd]

We had a post with some links to Artic Silver installation procedures a while back, very detailed. Now if I can find it in Search..........

Edit: I think this is the link (http://www.overclockersclub.com/guides/heatsinklappingguide.php)
for the lapping process.

And this is the link (http://www.overclockers.com/articles885/) for Artic Silver 5.
:D

[poordevil]

Thanks for all the replies and pointers. This site is definitely the best for computer help, instruction, and analysis. I will get on this project this week, or at the latest next weekend. I'll post back with my new temperature readings and we will see how much of a difference a good heat sink and lapping make.

[Whyzman]

I haven't revisited the lapping link in a bit, but here's my procedure.

I use 320 grit, then 400, then 600, and then 1500 for the finish.

You want to get the wet/dry paper so that you can keep some moisture on it. I rotate the heatsink in figure 8s...

The 320 will take it down a bit faster and you will be able to see pretty quickly how far you've got to go to flat...

[Bullman]

Here is another link that I found very useful for computer builds or upgrades. It was posted here by another member a while back.

http://www.upgradingandrepairingpcs.com/index.asp

Click on the videos link on the left and then click on the video you want (I watched them all :cool: )

[poordevil]

Okay, I finally got around to swaping out my heat sink :) . I took my PC down to my local shop and told them my CPU was running hot. They agreed and suggested a couple of different heat sink solutions. I chose the cheapest one that was better than the one I had installed already. They had this other huge heat sink and fan that cost about $50 but I decided if the less elaborate one would work, that would be good enough. So they put in the new smaller heat sink. We didn't lap it, but used Artic Sliver for paste. Then They took turns running FarCry at the highest settings for a while and we checked out the CPU temp with ASUS Probe. It was holding steady at around 65c. Which is warm but not extremely hot. So I decided to go with that heat sink as a good enough solution. It is a larger sink than the old one, but the same basic design.

Thanks again for all the help and responses! poordevil.