Helluva challenge.Anyone?

[Rod C]

First of all, I'd like to congratulate the local gurus and mods.Your dedication to the board and expertise is evident just after reading a few threads.It' a shame it took me so long to discover this place.Here's my system specs and a not so brief description of my problem.


HP model 9694c
AMD Athlon Processor @ 806MHz
512 Mb (1024Mb cache)
40 Gig, Maxtor (divided in 3 partitions.C - Windows, D - Programs, E - Storage)
GE Force 2 Pro clone by PNY. (AGP.Win9x_21.81 drivers from Nvidia)
SB Live 5.1 Platinum (Factory drivers)
MS Natural keyboard with USB hub.
Logitech Ifeel optical mouse. (Factory drivers)
(internal DSL modem and sound card/modem combo were removed long ago)


Despite the fact that there is a known issue regarding the AMD751 and Nvidia cards I never had any lockups occur on my machine except while playing a couple of games.Annoyed and worried about cold-starting my system every 15 minutes I decided to find a solution to the problem.However, neither AMD nor Nvidia acknowledge the issue and as far as I know there's only possible solution(s) tweak(s) found on the web and they're no guaranteed to work either.Just the same I went to the AMD site and downloaded all the latest drivers for the 751 chipset,and the latest bios at the HP site (OEM crippled Phoenix, V4.0).Flashed the bios and loaded the dirvers ok but the lockups continued.Now don't ask me why but I went to the VIA site and grabbed a few drivers and loaded them as well (I guess I was too tired and frustrated).I recall seeing the windows message that new devices were found and were being installed so I assumed everything was ok.Still no luck with the lockups so I decided to reformat my drive and start from scratch.Created a new partition(D) with PM6 and transfered all my archives and other sensitive data to it.While physically deleting redundant files from drive C my system reboots by itself and hangs during the initial check . My 1st. thought was that I had deleted an essential system file.Armed with a boot disk I just went ahead with the new format,reinstalled ME and all seemed fine untill my system started to reboot itself just like before.It happens all the time, sometimes after just a few mouse-clicks.

Things I've done/checked after the disaster:

.Ran scandisk on all 3 partitions,including surface scan. No errors reported
.Uninstalled and unplugged extras that could be causing a conflict or hogging the system (USB, game controller, and some TSR programs like antivirus,diskeeper,etc.).Nothing but system files running in the background at this point.
.Ran partition magic and double-checked all 3 partitions.No errors.
.Uninstalled the GE force driver from Control Panel and then removed registry entries. .Reloaded system presets in the BIOS.
.Went to the Nvidia site and got an older Detonator driver.Loaded up
.Cheked all 3 fans (Power supply,CPU and Vid card). All working fine.
. No loose cables or boards.
. Ran a monster test with SANDRA.(although I wouldnt know how to interpret most of the results).

At this point I have 3 different types of lockup.

A) System reboots by itself and hangs shortly after the initial test.It forces me to unplug the machine to restart.Sometimes I get a error message (0251 error, CMOS bad checksum?)

B) My old lockup problem only its gotten worse.I can leave the machine unatended,w/o any running programs but the system will freeze after sometime, forcing me to reboot.

C) BSOD, Parity Error, system halted.This happened twice when I left the machine running unatended.


Tried my best to isolate the problem to no avail.For all I know it could be a dying HD,a badly flashed BIOS, a failure with the mobo,the VIA drivers that I uploaded (and dont know how to remove), a serious video card/mobo issue or maybe some memory issue.At this time I am seriously contemplating the idea of tossing my sytem off the 8th floor, lol!


I would really appreciate your feedback on this issue.Sorry about the long post and thanks in advance.

P.S. I pulled an extensive system report with SANDRA so if any of you need a little more detail on any issue in particular I can paste the appropriate segment.

[BigBlue66]

Hey,

Man, I know how frustrating it is to have 'puter problems.

How old is the machine?

First, there are only two things that can happen with flashing a BIOS. Either it works, or it doesn't. If it doesn't, you have a heavy doorstop. So, if the computer is working at all, it's likely that the flash went off OK.

I think there are two issues here. First, your CMOS battery may be failing. Have you noticed that the clock doesn't keep time accurately? You can buy a new battery for about $2. It usually takes a CR 2032, but physically check the battery to make sure of the numbers. Replace it.

Secondly, parity errors indicate a possible problem with the RAM. Not sure what to do about that, because HP most likely uses proprietary RAM. You should ask HP if any old RAM will work in the system, and if so, try to use some known good RAM for awhile and see if it helps. Do you have a buddy that you could borrow some RAM from, in case HP says it's alright to use any kind of RAM?

I'm assuming that you have two 256mb sticks of RAM. Try running the system with just one at a time. Alternate so you try both sticks, but one at a time. See if the problems persist.

In the Sandra report, under Mainboard, does it tell you what temperature your board and CPU are running at?

This could be a heat issue, but not likely since it reboots almost immediately sometimes.

Try the new CMOS battery first. If that doesn't help, then try running with just one stick of RAM.

Post back with your progress.

Big Blue 66


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Reach high, for stars lie hidden in your soul. Dream deep, for every dream precedes the goal.
- Pamela Vault Starr

[Rick]

You should also check the chip set on your mother board.
There are a few hybrid systems that use the Via north bridge and another chip.

If you did a format of the c drive then the via drivers should be gone.
if you reinstalled them.
then you can remove them by running the 4in1 driver program again.
In the program there is an option to install or remove the drivers
Just select the option you want to use.

It (via4in1) should only install the drivers for the via chips you have installed in your system.
if it doesn’t have any it should abort.

------------------
To ERR is HUMAN
To REALLY screw things UP, YOU NEED a COMPUTER !

[Rod C]

Hey guys,

That machine is aproximatelly 2 years old and yes it uses a Maxell
CR 2032.No time discrepancies so far. According to Sandra the CMOS battery is good but I will see if my "bed" system uses the same one and make the switch and if not I'll buy one tomorrow just to be on the safe side.My system came with a generic 128Mb stick but that was replaced with two pc100 256Mb sticks by PNY less than an year ago.Again Sandra reports the correct values here and so does the BIOS.I have several "assorted" sticks laying around so I'll let ya know how it goes.My current temperature reading is 95 deg. F. Fan spinning @ 3375.

Rick, according to Sandra the chipset is an Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) AMD-751 CPU to PCI Bridge. I have found several references to VIA and AMD on the report but since I know very little about mobos I'll just paste some of them in here.Maybe that could help in identifying my model.

USB Controller/Hub - VIA Tech 3038 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller.
LPC/ISA Bus Model - VIA Technologies Inc VT82C686/A PCI to ISA Bridge.
USBBus Model-VIA Technologies Inc T83C572,VT82C586/A/B,VT82C596B,VT82C686A USB Controller.
VIA Technologies Inc VT82C586/A/B,VT82C596/A/B,VT82C686A EIDE Controller.
VIA Technologies Inc VT82C686A ACPI Power Management Controller.


I did locate the VT82C686A chip on my board but no references whatsoever to the VIA Tech 3038 PCI to USB controller.I'm not sure if these are related in any way (the 686a and the 3038).Now that you mentioned, I do recall installing the 4in1 drivers before the last format but not after.I'll load up the installer and see if an uninstall can be performed.


Again, thanks a bunch for all the input.I will try your suggestions and post back with my progess.


Rod

[Rod C]

Just a (not so) quick update on my ordeal, lol!

I replaced the CMOS battery with another CR2032.Random lockups, reboots and BSOD (Memory parity error - System halted) persisted.

Inspected the guts of my system once again.No loose cables or boards.Not even dust on the fan blades.All 4 fans running fine as well.

Tried several possible combinations with the memory sticks.Alternated a 256mb stick on bank 1 and then bank 2.I also switched the sticks and retried (in case one was bad).Did the same procedure with 2 different sticks this time (128mb each - one by PNY and another generic.Both PC100) but the problems persisted.

Removed my GE Force 2 Pro and plugged an old Voodoo3500 TV (agp) that used to be in that machine (never had a single video related crash with this card) to no avail.

Now there's one thing I noticed while taking a closer look at my BIOS screen.Memory banks 0,1 and 2.However, my mobo has only 2 slots.I'm not sure if this is normal or not.Also, if I'm using only one stick the BIOS always reports bank 2 as being used regardless of it's placement on the mobo.If I'm using 2 sticks then its banks 1 and 2.Am I missing something here?

Btw, I checked the 4in1 VIA drivers and couldn't find a uninstall option.

I'm inclined to rule out video card,memory sticks and CMOS battery.BTW, the system has been running for the past hour in safe-mode and no crashes so far.Will BIOS settings and/or mobo failures affect a system while running in safe-mode just the same? If the answer is yes tham I'm almost positive this is some win ME related problem/conflict.It's just odd that it happened before AND after a clean format.

This is really frustrating.I've been closely involved with computers for the past 22 years and for the 1st time ever I'm seriously considering giving in.I mean, even trying to load a program from a 60min. tape was not as challenging.I miss simple things like a ZX81 kit or a TRS-80 Model I, lol!

Cheers,

Rod

[Rick]

Rod

You will not see the uninstall option while using the via4in1 install program Unless the drivers are already installed.
By formatting your hard drive you destroyed the old install.

Now if you have both the Via and the AMD-751 chips on the mother board
then you do have one of the hybrid mother board chipset .

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_873,00.html

AMD-750™ Chipset
The AMD-750™ chipset represents AMD's first-generation core-logic solution, offering high performance capability to desktop systems implementing AMD Athlon processor modules. The AMD-750 chipset consists of the AMD-751™ system controller (Northbridge) and the AMD-756™ peripheral bus controller (Southbridge). This high-performance desktop solution provides the following features:

Here is a link for the AMD drivers including the AMD-751 chipset
You’ll need to Select by your O/S http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_871_2336,00.html

You should also download the latest version of Via4in1 and install it as well. http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=2
**Note from above page**
If you have a hybrid chipset (ie. VIA southbridge and AMD northbridge), please contact your motherboard Manufacturer or the correct drivers.
**End Note**

Most of the chip set features you list are controlled by one of the two chips on the mother board.
Including the 3080 pci to usb and the 4 in 1 driver will install what it needs to function properly

If you are getting a parity error during boot up.
You should check the bios settings for memory parity check .
It should be set to non parity .

In safe mode windows loads with out ANY drivers.
Nothing but basic universal drivers for memory, vga, and hard drive access
No extras what so ever. That will explain why its able to run in safe mode.


[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 12-17-2001).]

[BigBlue66]

Hey Rod,

Well, sounds like you have ruled out my ideas. But that's good.

If the VIA 4in1 drivers don't solve the problem, then I am inclined to think power supply issues.

Hang in there, and post back with your progress.

Big Blue 66


------------------
Reach high, for stars lie hidden in your soul. Dream deep, for every dream precedes the goal.
- Pamela Vault Starr

[ranchdog]

Rod

First, Kudo's to ya for hanging in there like you are.

Have read your post(s) trying to put the blame somehow on a specific item. But there are different variables in this case so the fault can be in a couple different areas.

The VIA 686A SouthBridge chip has caused nothing but grief. Especially after the "later" model Vid cards, Sound cards, etc. came on the market. VIA tried to play catch-up, revamped this SouthBridge chip and it became the 686B. Which does a little better with periphials, etc.

Have you tried removing the Soundblaster from your system and just booting up without it?

Can you leave the first PCI slot open? The one next to the AGP slot.

4in1 drivers can cause grief. As you have the AMD NorthBridge and the "old" 686A SouthBridge. Might give this a shot. VIA has a new and udated AGP Driver that can be downloaded by itself. Then try AMD for just the 751 Drivers.

You are able to run in Safe Mode so thats a start. Now it's just a matter of sorting some things out and find out what is causing the clash.

What does this HP system have for power supply? Hopefully not a 250W unit. What does SiSandra say about the different voltage legs? ie: 12v..3.3v..5v..Core Voltage?


Has this system always had ME as an O/S?

Hang in there.

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....How long is a minute... depends on which side of the Bathroom door you're on. ......Indecision may or may not be my problem......
..........

[Whyzman]

Hello Rod C,

I also have a USB Microsoft Natural Keyboard with the USB connectors on it. This keyboard caused problems with my WinMe and I have my power management schemes all set to NEVER. There seemed to be a pretty sophisticated set up upgrade drivers with this bad boy...I seem to remember quite a cumbersome download.

If I'd leave it unattended...she'd drift off and never come back to reality. I talked with Microsoft regarding this...and they just told me they realized there was an issue....OH GREAT! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/mad.gif So, I just eliminated the freeze-ups by setting to the NEVER-EVER! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Are you using any other USB devices other than the Keyboard? I'm kinda leaning the same direction as RD that you might be pushing the envelope if you've got a 250W PSU.

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May all your dealings in life be win/win!

Whyzman

[This message has been edited by Whyzman (edited 12-17-2001).]

[Rod C]

Hi guys,

I went to the AMD and VIA sites and got the latest drivers however, the info at VIA is rather sketchy just like Rick pointed out.My board is a K7M so I went to the Asus site just to make sure.Correct me if I'm wrong but by reading the info available there I came to the conclusion the 4in1 drivers aren't needed for that model.Did not install any of the drivers yet as I'm pretty unsure :/

The memory parity error isn't happening at boot up.I can boot just fine and stay connected for a few mins (or mouse-clicks) and then the system halts.Unfortunatelly I can't make any sophisticated adjustments in my bios as it is a "friendly" OEM-Crippled(tm) Phoenix/HP edition, lol :/

As for it being able to run under safe-mode I was just under the impression that maybe hardware failures (mobo,etc.) or a badly-flashed bios would prevent the system from running at all.

Yes, my 1st PCI slot is always vacant, lol.The PSU could be part of the equation; it's a mere 240v unit :/

The voltage reading :

CPU Core Voltage / 1.73V
Aux Voltage / 3.42V
+3.3V Voltage / 3.42V
+5V Voltage / 5.08V
+12V Voltage / 11.67V
-12V Voltage / -12.45V
-5V Voltage / -5.10V
+5V Standby Voltage / 5.05V

I pretty much tried just about every imaginable combination(SB,Vid card,etc.) to no avail and as far as O/S's, I used to have Win98 prior to ME.As this was a pretty fresh install and all my docs were properly backed up, I decided to to dust-off my old copy of Win98 and give it another shot.Installation went just fine and I started to add the old components one by one and lastly the software.Left my machine running overnight and it hasnt crashed yet! Woohoo! :P

It's an exact carbon-copy of my previous configuration cept I'm on Win98.So far so good; I've even noticed a slight improvement in performance :P
I'll will give it a try and see how the system behaves over the next few days and if all goes well I might not go the ME route again.What do you guys think?


Anyway, I'd like to thank all of you for lending me a hand.I really appreciate this.Maybe now I'll be able to pay forward and lend a hand to others in any way I can. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif


Rod


P.S. The MS keyboard with the USB hub feels like a Fisher-Price toy and its practically useless if ya plug anything bigger than the mouse.I have a Logitech joystick and a Sidewinder FF wheel and they draw more power than the hub can provide, lol.

Oh, there's just one thing that didnt go right.a conflict showed up on my device manager; PCI system management bus... Any idea what what this is? It doesn't seem to be interfering with anything so I left it untouched.

[This message has been edited by Rod C (edited 12-18-2001).]