Can't format XP

[mrshovelhands]

Sorry to look like an idiot here, but I've got a bit of a problem with my machine, and don't really want to take it to the shop for them to solve it for me, as it would be nice to know how to do it myself.

I've recently changed my PC. I got used to running Win ME on my old one, and now am trying to get used to XP on the new one. I used to format my ME on a fairly regular basis and eventualy I could do it in my sleep. But this XP thing is a different kettle of fish.

I thought that if you put the XP disk into the CD drive and rebooted, it would boot from the CD and give you the option to format etc.

But this what really happens.

Place XP into CD Drive "D".
Close down the options to reload etc when the disc boots up.
Reboot system.
Offered 2 options..
1. boot Win XP Home edition (C drive)
2. boot up from XP disc (for some reason it defualts to this one)

If I do option 1 it just boots up system, but if I do option 2, it says that it is examining the system and then the screen turns blue (just as I wanted it to), then .........nothing. It just stays like that. A blue screen with "Windows" (or something like that) in the top corner.
I'm sure there should be lots of activity on the bar below (loading files etc), but there isn't even a bar. Just a blue screen and no activity at the CD.

At boot up it should go straight into windowa, but ever since I first inserted XP and booted up with it in the CD, it goes straight to these 2 options. Even when there is no disc in D, it still won't boot straight from C.

Can someone help please? I so much want to enjoy XP, but so far I'm having a bit of a nightmare, and am almost wishing I sayed with ME (almost). :(

Thanks

[Chendo]

Why would U format??? Wouldn't your data be lost?
What brand PC U have? Try running the CD while XP is running, that should help U reinstall XP. just insert the cd and let it run from XP do not boot up the PC, that helps if your having problems with XP but is not the answer. Hope this helps U.

[ski]

Is the CD-ROM drive configured ahead of the hard drive as a boot device in BIOS?

[mrshovelhands]

Hi,

The setup order is........

1. IDE
2. Disabled
3. Disabled

So I've just tried the following.......

1. CD
2. IDE
3. Disabled

Exactly the same result, so then I tried.....

1. IDE
2. CD
3. Disabled

Exactly the same result, so then I set it back to the way it was originally. Still no joy. :(

[ski]

It's possible that the Win XP CD is defective.

Does a message appear asking you to 'Press any key to boot CD' before the 2 options{1. boot Win XP Home edition(C drive) 2. boot up from XP disc} appear?

[mrshovelhands]

Originally posted by ski
It's possible that the Win XP CD is defective.

Does a message appear asking you to 'Press any key to boot CD' before the 2 options{1. boot Win XP Home edition(C drive) 2. boot up from XP disc} appear?

Correct. It does that.

But I just tried exactly the same thing with a different copy of XP, and it did the same thing. Come back WIN ME all is forgiven (almost).
:(

[david eaton]

I must agree with Chendo. Why reformat? Win XP is much better at managing drives than any of the Win 9x versions, and doesn't even need defragmenting as much.

[HeadachesAbound]

windoze is windoze is windoze. Reformatting is a part of the windoze experience unless you never use it and even then it may still be required.

When it asks you to press any key, do you press a key?

I haven't used XP in a while but I do know that it is very sensitive about you pressing that key and if you don't do it quickly then XP will just ignore you.

If you still can't get that to work then make a 98 SE OEM boot disk (from here (http://bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm)) and boot up with that. Then at the dos prompt type format /u c:\ and press enter.

Once that is done, then boot from your XP CD and you should be able to do a complete re-install.

Just make sure you back-up anything critical, like data, before you do this.

DO NOT GO BACK TO ME. I can't stress this enough. Although I've heard things about XP Home they don't compare to the things I've heard about ME. I would never recommend that anyone use ME let alone downgrade to it.

[mrshovelhands]

Originally posted by HeadachesAbound

When it asks you to press any key, do you press a key?

I haven't used XP in a while but I do know that it is very sensitive about you pressing that key and if you don't do it quickly then XP will just ignore you.

If you still can't get that to work then make a 98 SE OEM boot disk (from here (http://bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm)) and boot up with that. Then at the dos prompt type format /u c:\ and press enter.

Once that is done, then boot from your XP CD and you should be able to do a complete re-install.

Just make sure you back-up anything critical, like data, before you do this.



Just did a reboot to make sure I'm right. It gives a message "Please select the operating system to start".
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Microsoft Windows XP Setup

Below that is a message telling you to use the up + down arrows to select.
Then below that is a countdown timer which gives you about 3 or 4 seconds before it goes to the default (setup) option.

I downloaded the 98SE boot disk, but the system kept asking for a valid disk. SO I inserted an old 98SE boot disk I had laying around. It took me to command prompt. I entered the text which was /u c:\ but it said it didn't recognise it as an internal or external command (or something like that). I reinserted the downloaded disk, and the same message came up as with my own disk.

I have an aweful feeling that I'll be paying a visit to the shop where I bought it, because this just doesn't sound right.

I can understand and appreciate some people saying "why format it", but the simple answer is that when I choose to format, I should be able to without all these problems.

[HeadachesAbound]

You typed in (without quotes) "format /u c:\", right?

If this doesn't work then you might try "format c:\ /u".

It's been a while since I've formatted my system so I could be off on the exact command but the first one should do it.

[mrshovelhands]

Originally posted by HeadachesAbound
You typed in (without quotes) "format /u c:\", right?

If this doesn't work then you might try "format c:\ /u".

It's been a while since I've formatted my system so I could be off on the exact command but the first one should do it.

Sorry, I misinterpreted what you were saying. I didn't even see the word "format" due to being so darn tired tonight. I feel like such a berk now. Like a fool, I entered the code without the word "format" in it.

I could use a disk called "drivescrubber" to simply format the system. But then when I try to reload windows from the XP disk in the CD drive (D), the same problem occurs that I have while trying to format using the XP disk. It just won't run the setup side of things, and the whole thing stops dead after writing "Windows setup" on the blue screen (even the CD stops whizzing around). I wanted to use the XP disk to format/fdisk and reload, as it would be all on one disk and have less messing about.

Sorry about not being with it tonight, it's been a rough day (and night).:o

[HeadachesAbound]

Sleep is a luxury, no apology needed.

If you have a backup of your critical data then the worst that could happen is your XP CD is indeed bad and you would be forced to return to ME. If this is the case then you should be able to get a replacement CD to re-install XP with.

Everytime that I have had to re-install a windoze machine I have used the method of booting from a floppy and reformatting from there. It just seems cleaner to me than trying to get the CD to cooperate. I've also had more issues with ME than with any other OS when it comes to troubleshooting other people's computers. Most of them have either moved on to XP or 2000 as an alternative. XP has resulted in a few issues primarily with the fact that Microsoft tried too hard to make it easy and as a result made it just another thing that the average computer user has to learn.

This also results in me getting calls at 3 in the morning because my mother can't find where Word is at my sister's computer. Mom uses 2000 on a custom built machine that has had 0 issues since it was built over a year ago and Sis uses an HP with XP that I have to fix every-other week.

Have you made any changes to the physical hardware since you installed XP the first time? I know that when I had XP it didn't like my video card (too advanced) and I had to pull out an older card (from 1997) and use it to get XP installed.

[mrshovelhands]

Originally posted by HeadachesAbound
Sleep is a luxury, no apology needed.

If you have a backup of your critical data then the worst that could happen is your XP CD is indeed bad and you would be forced to return to ME. If this is the case then you should be able to get a replacement CD to re-install XP with.

Everytime that I have had to re-install a windoze machine I have used the method of booting from a floppy and reformatting from there. It just seems cleaner to me than trying to get the CD to cooperate. I've also had more issues with ME than with any other OS when it comes to troubleshooting other people's computers. Most of them have either moved on to XP or 2000 as an alternative. XP has resulted in a few issues primarily with the fact that Microsoft tried too hard to make it easy and as a result made it just another thing that the average computer user has to learn.

This also results in me getting calls at 3 in the morning because my mother can't find where Word is at my sister's computer. Mom uses 2000 on a custom built machine that has had 0 issues since it was built over a year ago and Sis uses an HP with XP that I have to fix every-other week.

Have you made any changes to the physical hardware since you installed XP the first time? I know that when I had XP it didn't like my video card (too advanced) and I had to pull out an older card (from 1997) and use it to get XP installed.

I keep all my files etc backed up on 2 DVD disks at all times (just in case of accidents).
The machine is only a month old, so no new hardware has been added.
If I use the floppy to fdisk/format then reload drivers for the CD/DVD, Perhaps I can go into prompt and tell the XP disk to setup from there.
If I use a floppy to format and load software for my CD & DVD drives to boot up, does the file system change? At the moment it is NTFS, but if I use Win 98SE/ME etc will the file system change to FAT32?
If it does, does it make a lot of difference?

Thanks to all for the help. If this doesn't sort it, I'll take it back to the shop with my tail between my legs (I hate giving up).

Cheers for the help.

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Unfortunately, that's all I've got, so I'm pretty darn dangerous.
;)

[jabarnutcase]

But I just tried exactly the same thing with a different copy of XP, and it did the same thing. I'm just curious where this different "copy" came from. Is it just another Copy of the Original CD in question?

The reason I ask, is that I have re-formatted XP Machines so many times booting from the CD I've lost count.
Changing your Bios to boot from the CD Drive first (as you tried earlier) has always worked FLAWLESSLY for me.

I just can't help but wonder as ski suggested that you still have a bad "copy" of XP. Anywhere you could get your hands on just one more known good copy? :eek:

It's important to actually boot from the CD when using this method, although I've also had success just inserting the CD and having it auto-run.

Still, setting the CD is Bios to boot first has ALWAYS worked great for me so I just don't understand what's going on here.

(Sorry, I haven't been much help. Just wanted to let you know that it can and should work). Good luck.

[mrshovelhands]

Originally posted by jabarnutcase
I'm just curious where this different "copy" came from. Is it just another Copy of the Original CD in question?

The reason I ask, is that I have re-formatted XP Machines so many times booting from the CD I've lost count.
Changing your Bios to boot from the CD Drive first (as you tried earlier) has always worked FLAWLESSLY for me.

I just can't help but wonder as ski suggested that you still have a bad "copy" of XP. Anywhere you could get your hands on just one more known good copy? :eek:

It's important to actually boot from the CD when using this method, although I've also had success just inserting the CD and having it auto-run.

Still, setting the CD is Bios to boot first has ALWAYS worked great for me so I just don't understand what's going on here.

(Sorry, I haven't been much help. Just wanted to let you know that it can and should work). Good luck.

The other copy of XP is my dad's own copy.

[HeadachesAbound]

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
I guess that makes me the guy wearing the shirt that says "BOMB SQUAD. If you see me running, try to keep up."
I keep all my files etc backed up on 2 DVD disks at all times (just in case of accidents).
That's good.
The machine is only a month old, so no new hardware has been added.
Could still be an issue with the video card if the shop is the one that installed it. They may of used program a like ghost or could have done the video card work around like I discussed.
If I use the floppy to fdisk/format then reload drivers for the CD/DVD, Perhaps I can go into prompt and tell the XP disk to setup from there. If I use a floppy to format and load software for my CD & DVD drives to boot up, does the file system change? At the moment it is NTFS, but if I use Win 98SE/ME etc will the file system change to FAT32?
If it does, does it make a lot of difference?
The floppy format (with 98SE) will result in a FAT32 file system is memory serves. This won't make a difference in your case because when you re-install XP it will reformat it to NTFS when you ask it to. I do recommend NTFS as it is a much more stable option than FAT32 when dealing with windoze.

[ski]

Does your CD drive have any problems reading other CD's?

Does the same thing happen in your dad's system using either your or his Win XP CD?

[Paul Komski]

If you can get the startup processes to boot to the CD then there should be no problem with running the installation and installing it wherever and in whichever format you desire.

IMO - it is not booting to the CD for one of a few reasons, eg:-
a)The boot order in the bios is for ide before cd.
b)You are missing a prompt to press a key when the CD is detected.
c)The bootable sector of the CD is corrupt (or the whole CD is corrupt).

So two alternative ways are to boot to a Win98/ME startup disk and choose with CDROM support. Then navigate to the i386 folder and run winnt from the command prompt. Altenatively you can copy the i386 folder to the harddrive and once again run winnt from the i386 folder.

[mrshovelhands]

Originally posted by ski
Does your CD drive have any problems reading other CD's?

Does the same thing happen in your dad's system using either your or his Win XP CD?

No problems reading any other disks at all.

I just did a format on my old machine (with ME on it). I then loaded XP on, and it went on as sweet as a nut. No problems at all.
When it was loaded, I left the XP CD in the drive, and rebooted with the CD drive as first in line in the boot sequence. It went straight to setup with no trouble at all.

[ski]

Since we have to leave no stone unturned, was the new setting saved in BIOS when it was changed from IDE/Disabled/Disabled to CD/IDE/Disabled?
If it was saved, then try CD/Disabled/Disabled.

If still no luck, then remove the existing CD-ROM drive in the problem computer, and install the CD-ROM drive from the computer in which you just installed Win XP, and see what happens.

[HeadachesAbound]

In order to satisfy the voices in my head, can you give us some specs on the machine that is having problems? Make/Model/Manufacturer on the Video Card, RAM, Motherboard, CD-Rom, and Hard drive should do it.

And since you were able to get it installed on a different machine, can we get the specs on that one as well?

I am starting to lean more towards a hardware conflict and it could be any number of things when dealing with the 2k/XP installs.

[mrshovelhands]

Originally posted by ski
Since we have to leave no stone unturned, was the new setting saved in BIOS when it was changed from IDE/Disabled/Disabled to CD/IDE/Disabled?
If it was saved, then try CD/Disabled/Disabled.

If still no luck, then remove the existing CD-ROM drive in the problem computer, and install the CD-ROM drive from the computer in which you just installed Win XP, and see what happens.

Yep, all the changes I made were saved, and the one you suggest there is the one I'm currently running on.

I'd love to swap the CD Roms around, but someone came and bought my old PC this morning. I needed the cash, but at the moment, I'd rather have the machine to try this out.

Cheers ski

[mrshovelhands]

Originally posted by HeadachesAbound
In order to satisfy the voices in my head, can you give us some specs on the machine that is having problems? Make/Model/Manufacturer on the Video Card, RAM, Motherboard, CD-Rom, and Hard drive should do it.

And since you were able to get it installed on a different machine, can we get the specs on that one as well?

I am starting to lean more towards a hardware conflict and it could be any number of things when dealing with the 2k/XP installs.

The system that I have now is

AMD Athlon XP 2600 (Running at 2.083)
512 RAM
D drive is a CD ROM (Samsung)
E drive is a DVD Writer (LG)
Radeon graphics card 9200series
PCI v92 Modem
PCI Firewire Card
USB Binatone Modem for Broadband
USB Smart Media Reader
USB Scanner (Canon)
USB Printer (Epson)

I've decided to swallow my pride and take it back the shop in the morning. He can sort it out in front of me so that I can see what it is that he's doing.
When I've discovered what it is he did, I'll post back here tomorrow to let you all know what the problem was (just in case any of you come across this again in the future).
I'll write down every step the guy takes, and then when I get it home all nicely loaded again, you know the first thing I'm going to do?

FORMAT IT AND RELOAD IT!.

I need to know that whenever I want to wipe and reload it, I won't have the same trouble again. If it continues to happen, he can have his computer back again and again untill I am able to wipe it and reload it as and when I want.

Thanks again for your input chaps. Hopefully I'll have some better news tomorrow.;)

[Paul Komski]

Well we will wait and see what the man in the shop says. I presume you didnt try running winnt from a Win98 Startup floppy. The suggestion wasnt just to enable an install but to help with troubleshooting by including/excluding certain processes and/or hardware.

PS
You can run the Command Line Parameters for winnt (http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/win2k_cmdline_setup.asp) in both Win2K and XP without any switches; the various switches do add some versatility. Winnt, unlike Setup.exe, cannot do repair installations but can perform a new clean installation. This method of installing seems to be much under-used or even known about.

[mrshovelhands]

Evening folks. Thanks again for all your advice on this little beauty.

Here is the verdict from the Welsh jury.

Took the machine into the shop and the lad plugged it upto one of the display monitors, keyboard and mouse.

He switched it on (without the XP disk inserted), and clicked to look in the BOIS to check the boot order (IDE as 1, the rest disabled). This was as he'd left it last time I was in the shop (I know, because I remembered which way he set it, and I'd set back that way before taking it over).
He set the CD as first boot device and inserted the XP disc. It kicked up into setup mode as sweet as a nut and began setup ready for format/partition and reload.
After I finished screaming and swearing at the computer for making me look like a liar, I asked the lad what he thought caused it.
He reckoned firstly that I hadn't saved the boot sequence in the BIOS, but I disproved that by showing him the various combinations and showed him how I did it (he used f10, I took the option off the menu to save and exit). Different methods, same result.
He said that as the fault only happened at home and not in the shop, it was a good bet that the fault is caused by something that I've got plugged into it at home.

I got the impression that he wasn't very happy with me bringing it back for him to sort out. But hey, it's only a few weeks old, and I need to find out if there are any problems.
He told me that formatting a hard drive regularly can damage it. Is this true or is it just that he doesn't want me to format it again and find problems? I find it hard to believe as I formatted my old system every month for 3 years, and it ran ok. Does anyone know better?

[jabarnutcase]

Well, the way I put it was: "Changing your Bios to boot from the CD Drive first (as you tried earlier) has always worked FLAWLESSLY for me",
But: "It kicked up into setup mode as sweet as a nut and began setup ready for format/partition and reload", works well too. :D

Very strange. I'm a bit curious why CD was "disabled" in the Boot order when you first got the machine from the shop, and one of my very first thoughts was that you weren't saving the changes in Bios too.

I can't really think of what would cause the problem at your home and not in the Shop right off, but stranger things have happened I guess.

And, no...formatting your drive isn't going to "damage it". While I think Formatting every Month is a bit excessive and unnecessary, a Format if anything is easier on it than every day use where it's jumping all over the place while accessing Data.
Still, there are mechanical parts in it so it will eventually wear out some day anyway. But I'll bet it doesn't die during a Format, but rather when you're saving a very important file. (Just kidding) :p

I would say maybe the problem was due to "PFM" (Pure freaking Magic), but I would keep an eye on what changed between the Shop and your house as far as configuration if you go to try it again and the same thing happens.

Glad all is well at least. ;)

[HeadachesAbound]

He told me that formatting a hard drive regularly can damage it. Is this true or is it just that he doesn't want me to format it again and find problems? I find it hard to believe as I formatted my old system every month for 3 years, and it ran ok. Does anyone know better?

Just from experience, I would tend to disagree. I haven't witnessed any hard drive that failed as a result of 'regular' formatting. I have 3 machines at home right now with a total of 7 hard drives between them. 1 has been formatted at least 50 times in the last 7 years that I've had it and it still runs like new. The others are formatted less often as they are newer but I still format them about every 6 months just so that I can clean out the crap that results from normal computer usage.

As far as the difference between the shop and your house...it could be that the setup was getting hung up trying to detect some of your hardware (keyboard, mouse, monitor, printer, etc.). Stranger things have happened.

[Paul Komski]

I would say either the settings were not saved or the cmos battery is on the blink. Formatting a drive is not harder on the drive than any other procedure that writes data to it.

[mrshovelhands]

Cheers fellas.

I've just been talking to a mate (he knows more than I do about puters), and explained it all to him.
As it is, I've just reloaded the bare guts (graphics, sound, pci modem and USB modem).
He suugests that I should load the whole lot (printer,scanner, smart media reader (reads as F drive) etc) and then try it again to see if it fails the same way.
If it fails, he said to remove the items one at a time and try again after each removal. He thinks this process of elimination should rule out whichever (if any) device is causing the problem.

Now this is the bit I'm not sure about.

If I set my bios to read from the CD first, and it runs the set up procedure to get up to the format/partition/reload sequence (which is what it should do of course), can I back out of it without actually proceeding with the new set up procedure?
Also what is the favoured boot sequence? The lad in the shop uses the following.......

To use the CD to load, he uses....
1. CD and the rest disabled.

Once the system is loaded....
1. IDE and the rest are disabled.

[HeadachesAbound]

Also what is the favoured boot sequence?

I have mine set as...

Floppy
CD-ROM
IDE1 (Hard Drive)

It doesn't really matter if you leave it like that unless you like to leave floppies in (which I don't) and CD's can be left in as long as they are not bootable and will usually be ignored by the system.