In need of some Help plz

[lynisha]

Ok bear with me becuase this is a bit of mess. /sigh where to start...

I will try to give as much info as I can while still remaining relatively brief.

The PC in question was:

Homebuilt (by me)
Intel P4 2.4Ghz
Abit BE7 (raid) motherboard
512mb pc2100 ddr
GeForce4 128mb 8x AGP graphic
Soudblaster Audigy
2 60gb IBM hdd (raid striped)
all in a generic case with 400w Haikong power supply

All was well and good, have had the PC for almost 2yrs so its not super new but it was working perfectly untill one day I went to turn it on (after it had previously had a perfectly normal shutdown) and All that would happen was it would power up, lights on the mobo come on, HDD spin up, fans spinning but nothing else! No POST beeps of any kind, nothing. Just sitting and spinning as it were. heehee

So in a hasty assesment of the situation I just assumed my mobo had died since power seemed good but there was no POST. I ran out and bought a Shuttle AS45GTR plugged it in and expected all to be well. Now things get even better becuase what I got was this, the lights on the mobo are on and power looks good but when I push the ON button it gets a little surge of power (like just enuf to spin the CPU fan one turn) then it stops and sits there in silence. (still no POST)

Again I assess the situation and make another assumption, hmm, it looks like a power problem cuz it cant even spin up the fans. So I run out and get a new case equiped with a generic 500w power supply (label reads: SWITCHING POWER SUPPLY Model: ATX-500w P4) I plug all in with the new mobo and the old componants and the SAME thing happens, lights are on but when power applied just a small surge that spins the fan once and then it sits there like a dud.

Now Im just confused and lost. I plug it into every outlet in my house thinking it may be something electrical. But then realize that is dumb because Im sitting here on my other computer in the same room typing this right now.

So I strip the PC down to bare bones, one stick of ram, CPU, graphics card and plug it in. Same response, small power surge that gives the CPU fan a little spin then dud time.

I start to read on the internet for similar problems and discovered a post on someone who had a graphics card die and that led to the computer just sitting there spinning and no POST. So what the heck, I got a new graphics card (GeForce FX5700 256mb) plugged it into the barbones system. Same thing little power surge then dud. So I took that setup and put it in the OLD case and again the same!! This time not even sitting and spinning but just that same little surge and then dud.

So basically I have bought like half a new system to fix some unknown problem only to be left with a room full of parts and the problem even worse now than when I started!

I beg of ANYONE that can give my ANY ideas what to do next to please help. Just reading this I cant believe how stupid it sounds but Im totally at my wits end!

Lyni

[Maztrim]

Are you sure you are connecting everything to the mobo correctly? Sounds like the mobo isnt getting much juice.

Have you checked your processor? Any cracks or missing/bent pins? Did you use enough, if any, thermal paste? Your processor could be over heating. Although it would probably get a little further before shutting down. (A processor produces more heat, per square millimeter, than a nuclear reactor)

Have you checked for loose connections? Proper voltage?

I know these sound like pretty beginner things, but when you get frustrated you tend to overlook the obveous.

"Haste makes for waste"

[jeffhhh]

Did you hook up the square 4 pin connector with the yellow and black wires?

[lynisha]

The heat-sink is firmly attached as are all power connectors. The long regtangle one, the little square one and the small rectangle hard plastic one for aux power.

This is extremely perplexing because I have tried both motherboards in both cases with each stick of ram seperately and each graphics card.

I have gotten input from other boards that it may be a CPU problem. Has anyone actually seen or heard of these exact symptoms being duplicated?

Lyni

[grayson]

Have you plugged the power cables into the mobo correctly, Power button and reset making sure there grounded. Or taking the mobo out of the case and putting it on an anti static surface and booting up

[saphalline]

Situations like this make me glad I have spare parts laying around. Not to make you jealous or anything... :D

Anyway, yes, this increasingly sounds like a CPU problem to me. Reason: you aren't even getting a beep out of your mobos. Bad RAM = beeping (or unstable machine), bad PSU = no power (or again unstable machine), short in mobo/case contact = unstable machine (or even fried parts), but a bad CPU = nothing!

I don't know what would break a CPU randomly, and maybe you should borrow some known working RAM just in case (or put yours in a friend's machine), but it looks to me like you're in the market for a new CPU! ;)

Probably not the news you wanted to hear, given how much new stuff you've already bought, but maybe you can return some of that stuff.

Oh, and by the way... next time just buy a separate PSU, a good one. Like an Enermax or Antec or PC Power & Cooling, not some generic piece of cr@p!

[Paleo Pete]

Check the CPU in a known working computer, provided you can find or have one that will handle the same CPU. MOst newer boards automagically identify and set voltage, frequency and clock speed these days, so it's mot that difficult but you will need to check the thermal compound both before and after swapping chips.

For the original switch I always replace the thermal paste entirely, when swapping back to the original CPU it's usually only necessary to re-spread the existing [almost new] thermal paste.

Also try to power up either board or both outside the case, on a non-conductive surface such as a tabletop. Go with bare-bones; motherboard, CPU/heatsink/fan, RAM, video and keyboard. If it runs, you have something grounding against the case. Normally that's either the standoffs, in which case cardboard washers work wonders, or occasionally a screw that got dropped and rolled under the board. Fortunately that's fairly uncommon. You can test the old power supply that way too, it might still be working. If not, swap to the new one. Same for video card.

[mista2turbo]

Im having similar problems. Very similar system setup. I went and picked up a new processor. A P4 3.0E/800fsb. It now boots up (lending credence to the theory that the cpu was bad) However now during the winXP title shot, the system freezes up without fail. The mainboard and ram are new, and there i a copper heat sink and a new fan with thermal paste. Any more ideas?

[lynisha]

Well Pete I went with your advise, I took each componant to my friends working P4 system. The CPUs, Vid Cards, Each stick of RAM by itself, and even pulled out each power supply from its case. They all tested in perfect working order on his system. The only componants remaining in the equation are the mobos. What are the odds that I got 2 bad mobos? Well I ordered a THIRD mobo with the hopes that may work. I'll keep u updated on it.

Lyni

[CoachB22]

lynisha,
Is the HSF connectd to the mobo? Sounds like an overheat problem OR the mobo is not "seeing" the HSF. Sounds like you've basically checked every other component. CPU could be heating up so quickly that it shuts down before anything gets a chance to get going.

[lynisha]

hey Coach, you tell me what the HSF is and I'll tell you what is going on with it. heehee! I have never heard of that before can you 'splain some about it?

Here is where I'm at now, and I can hardly believe that this is actually happening to me. I have ordered a THIRD mobo the same Shuttle board, installed it it exhibits the original symtoms from the first breakdown. The Graphics Fan and CPU Fan spin but no POST. Nothing.

A very intriguing note I have discovered tho. When testing my CPUs on my friends system I noticed that they got white hot in an INSTANT. As soon as power was applied they become like hot steel. Now when swapping between CPU's on here I notice that they are ice cold to the touch, as if they have been doing nothing. What could cuase this? And we must rule out a bad mobo, there simply is no way on earth that I have gotten THREE bad mobos. Not possible.

Lyni

[Mick_D]

HSF= heat sink fan (cpu fan) :)

[CoachB22]

WOW!
The only thing I haven't seen addressed is the Harddrives. I'm not up on RAID setups. Could there be a harddrive problem (short). I would think you could still get a post as that happens before the harddrives are accessed but an electrical short might keep anything from working.
My intuition tells me this is something simple (like improper connection or missing connection) that is being carried from mobo to mobo, setup to setup. Pull out the manual and check all the connectors for proper location AND orientation. Maybe something slipped off to cause the initial failure and it's now being overlooked. This would explian why everything works in your friends system. Check those case/powerbutton connections.

Got my fingers crossed!!!!
CoachB

[Paleo Pete]

When testing my CPUs on my friends system I noticed that they got white hot in an INSTANT

HUH??? Are you saying the CPU itself gets that hot? When in operation you shouldn't be able to see the CPU at all, it should be hidden underneath the heatsink and fan. Heatsink and fan are absolutely mandatory for anything faster than about 200MHz CPUs. New ones get so hot so fast you can destroy the CPU in 10 seconds if it is powered up without a heatsink and fan, and with properly applied thermal compound.

P-4 chips are supposed to have thermal shutdown, so the machine will shut down entirely before it gets hot enough to damage the CPU, so you might be lucky, but without a heatsink you should never power the thing up at all.

Also, did you try either motherboard as a bare bones setup on a non-conductive surface?

If you've been powering up without a heatsink, it might be time to have a computer shop test the CPU and see if it does actually work at all. That kind of heat can damage CPU, and possibly components on the motherboard, but that's pretty uncommon.

If you're not sure what the heatsink and fan are, check my Components ID (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=25502) thread. I just posted that this morning, didn't realize I had forgotten these items.

[Paleo Pete]

CoachB22: That's why we suggest the bare-bones boot for situations like this, it eliminates all possibility of hardware connected to the motherboard causing ground problems, and to identify which component is causing trouble if it does turn out to be related to that hardware.

Not getting on your case, just explaining the reason we do things the way we do. If the board boots up properly as a bare-bones setup, then you add one hardware component at a time until it develops problems again, starting with floppy drive. The last one you added is the problem. You only need to boot far enough to see a picture, unless you need to go into BIOS for some reason. That's why a keyboard is always handy. When booting to check other hardware, boot long enough to see it identify that hardware.

If it won't boot bare-bones, try it outside the case on a non-conductive surface like a wood bench, cardboard etc. If it boots, you have a ground problem between motherboard and chassis. If it won't boot, then start trying to isolate power supply, video card, RAM, CPU and motherboard as the problem.

Note: NEVER turn the power on without a heatsink and fan installed.

[CoachB22]

Paleo,
I'm with you guy! And don't worry, I've pretty thick skin!

On the few builds I have done, I always do a barebones start-up on a piece of cardboard before I start putting things in the case. Kind of gives me an indication that things are going as they should, (and a shot of confidence), before it gets too complicated, hehe.

CoachB