mobo/cpu upgrade - partial rebuild

[jdbaines]

Have MSI mobo with Pentium III 450MHz CPU, 40Gb & 30Gb Western Digital HDD, Toshiba DVD/CDROM drive, running Windows ME - don't laugh - less trouble than my other computer running XP Home!!
Want to upgrade to new mobo (?Intel 825 type) with Pentium 4 2.8Gb or similar, but also need facilities for 6 IDE 'things' ie. 2xHDD, DVD/CDROM, Tape drive, plus DVD/CD burner.
Guidance appreciated on mobo and whether any reinstallation would be needed.
Don't tell me to change to XP - I have found it an abomination on my second machine, although better after Service pack 1. I have good anti-virus/firewall progs, so have not installed service pack 2 in it.

[saphalline]

Well, using Intel's newest 915/925 series chipsets (for LGA 775), there are certainly many mobo's available with 3 IDE channels onboard. And they don't demand too much of a price premium. Or you could get a PCI IDE card and save yourself some mobo money. Either way has its advantages.

[jdbaines]

Many thanks - however (it's my wife's machine) she feels that a 450MHz CPU is a bit 'old hat' and wants an upgrade - hence the new mobo - this one's 6 years old!
I was also thinking along the lines suggested, but each time any upgrade has been made to this machine, despite having back-ups, we have lost data files - seem to have been copied incorrectly to the back-up. That's why I want, if possible, to do a 'plug and play' with the new mobo and CPU.
I have seen comments from 'must format disks and reload OS' to 'should work - no obvious problems'. Which is likely to be true?

[david eaton]

Well, if you change the Motherboard and processor, it will be necessary to reload Windows, in order to get it to recognise the new hardware.
Given the problems that overinstalling is likely to produce, due to ghost drivers left in the registry and elsewhere, a reformat and reinstall is the way to go, if you want troublefree operation. Even if you don't do it this way, before upgrading make sure that all data files are backed up, and include your dial up and email settings. Also ensure that you have all the necessary drivers for graphics card, modem, printers etc. Good luck!

[saphalline]

Many thanks - however (it's my wife's machine) she feels that a 450MHz CPU is a bit 'old hat' and wants an upgrade - hence the new mobo - this one's 6 years old!
Ok then! Get yourself a nice, shiny new mobo based on Intel's 915P chipset. This will include LGA 775, DDR and/or DDR2 memory slots, PCIe x16 graphics slot, onboard GbE, 3 IDE ports (for 6 devices total), and at least 4 SATA ports. Cost is anywhere from $100 to $200+ depending on which mobo you get. My pick would be MSI's 915P NEO2 PLATINUM for $157, but you can peruse Newegg's listings to find the right one for you.

but each time any upgrade has been made to this machine, despite having back-ups, we have lost data files - seem to have been copied incorrectly to the back-up.
What media are you using to do back-ups? Are you using a partition on your hard drive or CD's? CD's are cheap enough these days to just throw them away, so if you have to use 20 of them to back-up all your data, so what? And you can easily check them after you burn them to make sure it worked.

As far as reinstalling Windows, yes you will have to do this. Doing a drastic core upgrade such as you will be doing will definitely require a total reinstallation. I have heard cases of people swapping out mobos without reinstalling Windows, but in those cases, two things were true. 1) - The two mobos in question had very similar chipsets & designs, and all other hardware stayed the same (not true in your case). And 2) - Windows was never the same afterwards, there are always lingering side-effects. Other than those few cases, I've never heard of anyone successfully upgrading their mobo & CPU & RAM without reinstalling Windows.

[rond36]

If you insist on continuing to use Windows ME and buy a CPU and motherboard that support Hyper-Threading you will need to dis-able it in BIOS (http://www.intel.com/support/platform/ht/os.htm).

Windows ME doesn't support HT it will "see" your system as having 2 processors and it doesn't support multi-processor systems!

Win ME will install with HT enabled but will not run after it is installed you end up with a blinking currsor in the top left corner of the screen at the end of the first boot after it is installed

[saphalline]

Woah, I never thought of that! Good job, rond36! I just take modern technology too much for granted. :D It never would have occurred to me that ME would be confused by HT. I just figured it would run but would ignore the second virtual CPU. Guess that's not the case, huh? :p

On a similar note... jdbaines - What on earth is wrong with your other PC running XP Home?? I don't like XP Home myself (I prefer XP Pro) but still, XP Home usually works way better than ME. Are you running it on older hardware?

[jdbaines]

Many thanks for all your inputs - GREATLY appreciated.
The XP machine is a low-spec e-machine 130 - ?800 Athlon or similar.
It falls over much more than the ME, although in the last few days the ME has ben very slow and uncertain on booting.
Recent article in PCAnswers in UK suggests that one way of changing mobo & CPU without reinstalling is to remove all drivers relating to old mobo immediately prior to final shut-down, with the system recognising all the new stuff after refitting and booting. (still to have back-up, of course)
I've used second hard disk and also a USB disk for drive copies, but still lost files, as even though file-names show files present, the files are sometimes empty.
I'm trying to find a drive image program that I can understand!

[jdbaines]

Forgot to state - no other hardware changes - just mobo & CPU - RAM only if necessary.

[saphalline]

You will most definitely have to buy new RAM. That 450MHz machine uses SDRAM. The latest P4's only use DDR and DDR2 RAM.

You can try that whole drivers thing if you want, just to try it. Yes, make back-ups, too. The other thing to consider, besides just the drivers and safe mode, would be DirectX. Don't forget to reinstall that! It's not a driver per se, but it's definitely going to get confused if you don't reinstall it.

[jdbaines]

Many thanks.

After receiving the advice and considering it very carefully, I'll give it a go - with good backups I could theoretically put it all back, and start a new machine altogether.

Seriously though, I am very grateful, and will bear in mind all the comments.

Thanks to Saphalline - I have noticed the quality of advice given to other members, and really appreciate the expertise deployed on behalf of lesser mortals.

[jdbaines]

I started to put everything together - Pentium IV, 3GHz processor, MSI neo2 platinum board, 2 x ddr 500MHz memory chips.
The problems rond23 and Saphalline mentioned were present, so I decided to go the whole hog and upgrade to XP Pro, with a new hard disk (120 Gb) but kept the old one and upgraded the OS. I still had the same problems.
After three reinstalls, I decided to go back the the mobo supplier for advice - his comment was - 'faulty motherboard - bring it in - we'll give you another'.
After this, all went well.
As I still had the original hard disk as 'slave' I was copying files across - must have hit an odd key and found myslf back in Windows Me from the slave drive - it worked fine with the processor and new motherboard - so perhaps if the original new motherboard had been a good one all would have been well without the upgrade/reinstall.
For rond23's information, the Windows Me was working fine with the hyperthreading enabled.
I now have a working system - new case (Jeantech Butterfly), MSI board, Intel Pentium IV 3Gb cpu, 1 Gb DDR memory, 120Gb & 40Gb HDD, Hayes V.92 faxmodem and Belkin wireless keyboard & mouse - running Windows XP Professional. - Cost about £500 including the XP upgrade.
For the moment, the original Me disk drive is present, and can be used as an 'alternative boot'.
Thanks again for advice in the past. Thought you might be interested in the follow-up.

[jdbaines]

Apologies to Rond36 - I posted the info 'off the top of my head' - got the number wrong!
Also added DFVD/CDROM drive (everything except double layer writing) in price.
The only bits I am having problems with are the drivers for a HP Colorado 5Gb internal tape drive (unsupported since 2001) and an old MM201 TV card (Modular Technology).

[saphalline]

It's always good to hear follow-ups. That way we can see how our advice helped, or didn't, whatever the case may be.

Interesting that ME didn't give you any major problems. That's rare. I guess it also ignored HT, huh? But have you checked to see if HT is enabled in the BIOS? It may be off by default.

Bummer about the mobo problem. Now you've spent money on an OS that you didn't need! At least it's running faster now, right? ;) How does your wife feel about all this?

[jdbaines]

What a rapid response, Saphalline - Thanks.
The HT is enabled in the BIOS, so you may be right that it was being ignored.
Start-up is faster, but I am glad to have the 'dual boot' facility - makes it much easier to get XP tweaked.
My wifes present problem is reinstating her web program - settings seem to need to be different (she uses WS_FTP LE) so it is now being worked on.
Again, thanks.