win98 can't detect cd-rom

[FastLearner]

Hi all. I have an old Compaq Presario with all original hardware, including a cd rom drive. It's been a while since I used it, so I don't remember how I messed up the settings (probably playing with something i shouldn't have.

Windows98 boots fine, but it does not recognize the cd-rom , although it does indicate a detected atapi device on the boot up screens. I do not have a Win 98 cd, but I do have a Win98 startup floppy that I made way back when everything was working. I looked in Device Manager to look for resource conflicts, but it is indicating there aren't any. I do, however, have yellow exclamation points in 3 places. They are:
Under PCI Bus, subheading SiS 5513 Dual PCI IDE controller, there are two items with yellow exclamations:
1) Primary IDE Controller (dual fifo)
2) Secondary IDE Controller (dual fifo)

and 3) "Standard Floppy Disk Controller" also has a yellow exclamation point.

I have checked the drivers, and Windows 98 says they are all up to date and in use.

I have opened the case and reseated everything. I also booted to the floppy just to see if the floppy drive works, and it does.

Also, when I boot into safe mode, the device (CD-Rom Drive) appears and the yellow exclamations are all gone. But then of course I can't use it in safe mode) What is happening, why can't windows see my drive, and how can I fix it?!! Thanks in advance.

[ski]

Make sure the floppy drive is listed ahead of the HD as a boot device in BIOS, boot with the Windows boot floppy inserted, select 'Start with CD-ROM support', press Enter, note the letter assigned to the CD-ROM drive, at the A:\> prompt type dir X: (where X is the CD-ROM drive's letter), insert a CD, and press Enter.
If you do not see the contents of the CD, then connect a different power lead to the CD-ROM drive.
If no luck, then install a different known working IDE cable for the CD-ROM drive.
If still no good, then the drive may be bad. Try it on a different system. If it does not work there, then it's probably toast.

If you see the contents of the CD above, then start in Safe mode, remove all CD-ROM drives from Device Manager, restart normally, and let Windows recognize the drive, and reload its drivers.

If that does not work, then double click on the primary and secondary IDE controllers in Device Manager, and let us know what it says under 'Device Status' in the General tab.

[FastLearner]

Thanks Ski. I got a little head start and followed the directions frim Microsoft located at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/190303/EN-US/
That's the second time my trusty Win 98 startup disk with cd rom support has saved my behind...:)
The good news is the drive is working like a champ now.
The bad news is the yellow ! marks are still there.
As far as device status, it is showing:
The device is either not present, not working properly, or does not have all of the drivers installed.

That's wierd because the drive is working perfectly.
Thanks again for your help, Ski.

[FastLearner]

Looks like I spoke too soon. I put in a disk and the message "Windows cannot locate Autorun.exe". hmmm. I was able to play a music cd, though, with the built in cd player.

Also no matter which disk I have in the drive, when I double click MyComputer, a red cross symbol shows in the D: drive icon.

[FastLearner]

OK. I have followed your advice and put the drive in my WinXP machine and it worked flawlessly. I then took the IDE cable from my good machine and installed it into my Win98 machine. It's working the same as before. Something in your post reminded me when I booted to the floppy, the E: drive was actually my cd rom directory. I was able to view the contents of a disk by typing dir e:

Could this be the problem? I typed in the instructions from microsoft exactly as they appear on that link above--including the drive letter D:

But when I click on My Computer, there is no reference to an E: drive, only the D: drive. The cd rom in this machine has always been the d: drive, so I am basically getting more and more confused with each thing I try.

[ski]

It's not unusual for a CD-ROM drive to be assigned a DOS drive letter that's different from the one that's assigned in Windows.

The important thing is that the CD-ROM drive works on another system, and you can see the contents of a CD when booting from the Windows boot floppy on your system, both of which indicate that the CD-ROM drive access problem in Windows is being caused by software, and not by hardware(CD-ROM drive, cables, IDE controller, and/or connectors).

Based on the 'Device Status' message that's showing in Device Manager for the controllers, it appears that the MB's chipset drivers are not installed.
You may be able to reinstall them from a Compaq driver CD that came with the system by right clicking on the CD-ROM drive in My Computer, click Explore, and double click on a setup.exe file.
If that does not work, then check Compaq's site for a chipset driver d/l for your system.

If you can install the chipset drivers, then you may also have to disable the real mode drivers for the CD-ROM drive in autoexec.bat and config.sys, remove the CD-ROM drive from Device Manager, restart, and let Windows install the CD-ROM's protected mode drivers.

[FastLearner]

ok ski, I'll give that a try. I figured it's best not to complicate the problem, so I undid what I changed (restored the old config.sys and autoexec.bat back to how they were).

I am now going to follow your steps above and see if I can get this thing up and running. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again.

[FastLearner]

Getting ready to give up.I booted with boot disk, ran "dir e:" and dos showed me the correct directory. I then remove cd and boot disk, boot into safe mode, remove the drive, and then restart in normal mode. BUT, then after booting, the drive no longer appears in My Computer. I seem to be right back to square one. I tried the same thing with a different drive, and the results are the same. I've never been more ticked than I am right now. The ! marks are still on the same three items. I am starting to think this is hopeless and I should just reinstall windows--oh yeah, I forgot, I can't do that because Microsoft is too paranoid to include the d$%& cd with their computers. Should I continue on this journey or format the drive? As far as looking for chipset drivers, I haven't the slightest idea of what to do with them even in the unlikely event I do find them. And the, I'm not even sure it would solve the problem. Where did these drivers go? I would never intentionally uninstall chipset drivers. Thanks again, and please forgive me for my tone...just getting very frustrated.

[alex666]

Chipset drivers are not a big deal, easy to install, and I suspect that ski is correct that it may be a chipset driver issue. First of all, do you know the chipset for your system? That is, is it an intel-based motherboard, via, nvidia? What model Compaq computer? If you know that, then you can easily determine the chipset for it via google. If you obtain that info, then you can probably resolve the issue. As frustrating as all of this is, the fact that your computer is working fine otherwise, and that the cd-rom works fine in another computer are positive factors and this probably can be resolved.

marty

[ski]

In times like this, it's always best to move a step back, and take a few deep breaths. Always works for me.

If you post the model of the system, then we may be able to help you find the correct chipset drivers.

[FastLearner]

Hi all. First of all, I apologize for getting so frustrated. It didn't get me anywhere. While I was ranting and raving, I decided to format the drive and installed a copy of Windows 95 that I had laying around. Bad idea. The same problem is still present and now I have Win 95 instead of 98! I guess if the chipset isn't working (which I should've thought of before), it doesn't matter which OS is installed--it won't work properly. Anyway, now I can boot into Win 95 safe mode only, and a normal boot results in a "Windows Protection Error, restart computer to proceed" every time. No biggie, since I just ordered an actual Win 98 disk from eBay (with license). I also took a look at Compaq's page and tried to find a chipset driver, but all I could find were audio and video (and modem) drivers. I installed those before I formatted the drive, but it didn't work any better. (I just burned three drivers onto a disk (audio, video, and modem), used my win98 boot cd to be able to access cd rom drive, copied the three .exe files to my c drive, rebooted in safe mode and installed.) Now my info:

My model number is a Compaq Presario 5441. It came pre-installed with Win 98 SE and has a Lucent Win 56k modem, if that helps. Oh yeah, 56KB of memory (I know, not a lot!). I'm thinking that while I'm waiting for my copy of Win 98, I could try and get the chipset issue straightened out to at least get Win 95 up and running, but I really need some serious help in locating the correct chipset drivers.

Really the only good thing that came out of my re-formatting was finding out that the hard drive has no errors...:) That's a start, I guess. Thanks to you all for your help, and once again, sorry to lash out like that. It was in no way, shape, or form directed at any of you. I was just getting angry, and like you said, ski, stepping away for a while really helped out.

[alex666]

Here's the link to your computer: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?lc=en&lang=en&cc=us&product=93344&dlc=en&docname=c00031041

It's a SIS chipset per specs. Interesting that this is very similar to a system I still have, the Presario 5220, which has a Via chipset and despite being a proprietary Compaq motherboard with integrated video, it was an extremely versatile and upgradeable motherboard. I installed all sorts of stuff on that motherboard, new video cards, modems, I got rid of the original win98 and installed 98se, linux, installed an ata/100 add-in card with a new hdd, changed processors. I list all this to show that, IMHO, Compaq used a solid mobo. It works to this day. So despite the age of your mobo, it probably is a decent one and worth salvaging.

As for SIS drivers, I really don't know. You'll need to do your own homework for that. However, if you install reinstall win98se, it probably will include drivers that will work with that mobo. In contrast, win95 would not have had those drivers, hence the problems you ran into. It is really nice owning your own copy of an OS since you can readily reinstall if you have to.

[malcore]

The 5441 uses the Gigabyte GA-5SMM motherboard. SiS chipset for K6-2, SiS 530 onboard video.

Here are the Gigabyte drivers for sound, video, IDE (chipset):

http://www.giga-byte.com/Motherboard/Support/Driver/Driver_GA-5SMM.htm

[alex666]

Good job, Malcore. Where'd you find that out? I tried for a while, but couldn't locate the mobo. I did determine that it was a Super 7, which were what introduced lots of folks to AMD chips. My Presario 5220 came with k6-II 380, and I upgraded it to a K6-III+ 450 that I was able to oc to 550 - 600. I still have it and it runs great. Dynamite chip, precursor to the athlon. You could probably install one on this mobo.

Newbie, bet you didn't expect all this help. By the way, we're all coming over for dinner tomorrow. :D :D :eek: :eek:

marty

[FastLearner]

Awesome guys. Thanks a million. Now last question, how do I install these puppies?

I'd like to install the set now (I just need the "Chipset Drvers", yes--not the audio and video?) to get Win 95 up and running while I'm waiting for my copy of Win 98. Will it hurt the mobo to install the W95 drivers now, and then install the 98 ones later?

Thanks again all. BTW, you are all more than welcome to stop by for dinner, but you have to fly here first...:):)

[FastLearner]

The exact message I'm getting is
"Starting Windows 95..."
Then the Windows 95 screen comes on and then goes off and the message:
"While Initializing Device IOS
Windows Protection Error. You need to restart your computer"

I tried installing the driver (just the chipset driver) in the same fashion I installed the last set when I still had Win98. Made a cd, booted with Win98 boot disk with cdrom support, copied the files to c, opened win95 in safe mode, ran the driver. Do I have to have these drivers in a certain folder?

What's more is on one restart attempt, Windows actually loaded in Normal mode all the way to the Welcome screen, but then I tried a restart and this IOS Initialization error keeps coming. Progress (even if only a little).

[Sylvander]

While initializing IOS: Windows protection error. You need to restart your computer.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;157924

Reading the thread a couple of thoughts occurred:
Regarding:
"there is no reference to an E: drive, only the D: drive. The cd rom in this machine has always been the d: drive, so I am basically getting more and more confused with each thing I try"
1. When you boot from a Win98 startup diskette "with CD-ROM support" the drives are allocated different letters to normal because of the RAM-DRIVE, which is given a letter [usually D] immediately after the HDD letter[s] and before the other [usually optical] drives. This normally sets the CD-drives back by one.
Regarding:
"I do, however, have yellow exclamation points in 3 places. They are:
Under PCI Bus, subheading SiS 5513 Dual PCI IDE controller, there are two items with yellow exclamations:
1) Primary IDE Controller (dual fifo)
2) Secondary IDE Controller (dual fifo)
and
3) "Standard Floppy Disk Controller" also has a yellow exclamation point."
2. The PCI hardware [items connected to the PCI bus] like NIC, USB, PCI CPU Bridge, IDE Controllers, PCI Video Card, PCI to ISA Bridge, etc [in my BIOS anyway] MUST be detected by the BIOS, have non-conflicting resource allocations made, and have those allocations recorded in the ESCD [Extended System Configuration Data] table. These allocations are then used at each and every startup. But if done in the past when a different combination of hardware was connected, and not re-done to suit the latest set, then these allocations would be unsuitable, and there would probably be resource conflicts [as shown by the yellow exclamation marks].
The FDD is not on the PCI bus, but perhaps the conflicts got it involved.
In my BIOS, to "Force Update the ESCD" I go into "BIOS Setup->PNP/PCI Configuration->Reset Configuration Data = Enabled" and "Save & Exit Setup".

[FastLearner]

That was weird. I went into config.sys to remove any refernces to smartdrive.exe (as per the article Sylvander recommended), but config.sys has no data in it. It is a blank text document. I removed the hidden attribute in dos, but the file is still blank. I didn't see autoexec,bat at all, believe it or not.

[FastLearner]

Also, I found that page in my bios, sylvander. I have changed it to "enabled" and the detect PNP/PCI settings to "Automatic" Is this correct?

[Sylvander]

Sounds like Win95 hasn't been properly installed. :confused:
There should be lots of settings in these files for Win95.
Run "Setup.exe" again and verify the installed hardware components.
"Windows 95 provides an option for verifying installed components when Setup detects an existing Windows 95 installation. When you use the Verify option, Setup reads SETUPLOG.TXT for the installed components and reruns the Setup process to verify all system components."
If Setup stalls [because the Win95 disk doesn't have a driver for a detected hardware item], switch off then switch back on. Repeat this for each item of hardware that causes a stall. These items of hardware won't be set up for use, and if you can get Windows to boot [into Safe Mode] you install the needed drivers there [using the OEM disk].

Before you do [if you wish] you could run "Step-by-step Confirmation" and hit "Enter" at every command to see if any errors result.
Then you could go into Windows [safe mode if necessary] and study "Bootlog.txt" to see if there are any "Fail" procedures. [devices: Loading, initialising, start, terminate.]

Since "Config.sys" & "Autoexec.bat" are empty or not there your hardware isn't being properly configured for use. In particular, memory [RAM] usage is very poor or non-existent.
"The EMM386 device driver, EMM386.EXE, provides expanded-memory support and also provides access to the upper memory area."

"I have changed it to "enabled" and the detect PNP/PCI settings to "Automatic" Is this correct?"
Yes. I assume you also did "Save & Exit Setup" to save the changes.
If you go back in now, the setting will be back to "Reset Configuration Data = Disabled".
The BIOS does this automatically to re-lock the settings.
This means the settings can only be changed by manually changing to "Reset Configuration Data = Enabled".
Tricky HUH? :D

[FastLearner]

I'm typing this message as I perform the actions:

1)Boot up with win 98 boot disk
2)select boot with cd rom support
3)at the a:\ prompt, I typed e:setup.exe
4)Microsoft Scan disk runs and reports:C had no errors. Drive D had no errors.
5)choose 'exit'
6)Win 95 Setup informs me it's going to install win95
7)click continue
8)software license agreement-->accept
9)setup window launches
10)choose directory c:\windows
11)choose 'typical' install
12)enter my OEM passkey at the prompt
13)Computer Analysis runs
14)Install the most common components [recommended]
15)copying win 95 files to computer

...still hasn't detected that it's already installed

16)restart and finish setup
17)computer restarts and goes directly to:
While initializing device IOS:
Windows Protection Error. You need to restart your computer
18)hit ctrl-alt-del
win 95 startup menu comes
19)choose 'safe mode'
20)win 95 runs in safe mode
21)start-->shut down-->restart
22)Windows Protection error
23)restart with ctrl--alt--del
24)command prompt only
25)dir c:
26)no config.sys present
27)cd windows
28) edit config.sys
29)file is empty

..I think you get the picture...:)

[FastLearner]

I also went into safe mode after running step-by step boot. The Windows Protection error came, so I went into safe mode and looked at the bootlog.txt file.

Some observances:

Many items had many (up to 6) LoadStart and LoadSuccess messages.

These items were:
GDI.exe
User.exe

I also had many Load Start, LoadFail messages, and they all were in the format:

LoadStart = c:\windows\fonts\xxx
LoadFail = "
All of them had failure code = 0016 after the LoadFail message

Other than those, there were no other failures.

[alex666]

IMHO, if you have 98se on order, I wouldn't sweat the headaches trying to install 95 at this point. By the time you figure out what the problem is installing 95, which may be difficult as virtually no one works with 95 anymore as there is no reason to go back to it (and to confuse matters more, there were two versions of 95), you'll have your 98se cd.

marty

[FastLearner]

True, but if win 95 is experiencing these problems, won't win98 have the same problems? After all, it was with win98 that all these problems started. Call me crazy, but I feel like I have invested so much time on trying to install win 95, that I am now on a mission to complete the task...:) I'd really like to see this through to the end. Do you not think it's possible? Besides, I'm learning so much in the process.

[FastLearner]

I also have an OEM disk of win2k (90 day trial). Do you think I would have better luck with that? Just a thought. Also, I forgot to ask yesterday...do chipset drivers come on OS cd's or does one always have to install them separately (the way I did yesterday)? Thanks.

[FastLearner]

Since "Config.sys" & "Autoexec.bat" are empty or not there your hardware isn't being properly configured for use. In particular, memory [RAM] usage is very poor or non-existent.
"The EMM386 device driver, EMM386.EXE, provides expanded-memory support and also provides access to the upper memory area."


Hi Sylvander. I just tried reinstalling Win 95 after a format c:, but the same problem exists..:( I'm starting to agree with Alex666 and think I should give up on the Win95 idea--even though I considered it a big deal just an hour ago...:)

Does the fact that config.sys and autoexec.bat are not being installed indicate a problem with the emm386 driver? Either way, I'll just wait, if you think I'll have better luck, for win98se or I could try the Win2k install if you think that may be successful. Hate to give up on win95, but I know when to admit defeat!

[alex666]

Win98se should (and I underscore "should") come with microsoft drivers that will run your chipset for most if not all your components. You can always upgrade chipset and other drivers at a later time for maximum performance, or download any that might be missing. I've never used a SIS mobo, but was it Sylvander who identified the mobo and the website of the drivers for your mobo? Anyway, you'll probably want to go to that site to see if drivers are specific to an OS, i.e., 98se, 2000, XP, and so forth. For example, last weekend I installed 98se on a separate drive in one of my computers. It installed easily, but when I looked in device manager after the install, I was getting the same yellow exclamation points that your described, not for the same hardware, but for my modem, my usb2.0, and maybe even my dvd drive. Mine is a via-based system that is less than 1 year old, a kt-600 chipset, albatron motherboard, and so I simply installed the most recent version of the via chipset drivers that I downloaded from VIA's website and all the exclamation points went away except for the usb2.0. Win98se never was designed for usb2.0, but the manufacturer of my motherboard provided 98se usb2.0 drivers with the motherboard. I installed them, and now I have a fully-functioning win98se system for the computer (I have XP Home on a different hdd, and it is the main OS I use for this system). I worked on it off and on over the course of a day.

In contrast, I've installed 98se multiple times on my old presario, which was manufactured in fall, 1998 and purchased in April, 1999, and very similar to yours except it's a via chipset. Anyway, it came with win98, not win98se, the latter I purchased separately several years later). Anyway, I was pretty much up and running after simply installing 98se, with most if not all the components working just fine (i.e., no yellow exclamation points). I then installed the latest version of the via chipset drivers for that particular mobo, downloading the drivers from the via website. I did this to get maximum performance.

So once you get 98se installed, you'll be in a position to identify what drivers are needed, what is missing, and so forth, and then work from there. More than likely, you'll definitely want to install the audio and video drivers which, if I recall, are available at the compaq website.

The general rule of thumb followed by many (others may have a different procedure) when adding an OS after building a computer is to first install the OS, then the latest chipset drivers, then the video and audio drivers, all of which you can download and have available in advance if you have access to the model numbers of those components. After I install all that, I choose to then install virus protection and a firewall with updates, and then get all the updates for the OS. Others may opt to get all the updates for the OS first before the virus protections and firewall.

You should be okay, and you'll feel like a pro when all of this is done. Your learning curve is rapidly accelerating. This is how I got into building my own computer. I started upgrading components in the presario, the video card first, then the hdd, then the modem, then the actual cpu, memory. I stumbled a lot, but by the time I had done all of this, the thought of actually building my own computer seemed very do-able, and it was. Plus, I got to build what I wanted to build, with the parts I wanted, etc. etc. I've built three completely from scratch, with countless upgrades, adding parts, and so forth. Then your hooked, and then you start hiding all of this from your spouse and hanging out at computer forums late into the night talking to people from all over the world. Ain't it great! :D :D :D

marty

[FastLearner]

The general rule of thumb followed by many (others may have a different procedure) when adding an OS after building a computer is to first install the OS, then the latest chipset drivers, then the video and audio drivers, all of which you can download and have available in advance if you have access to the model numbers of those components. After I install all that, I choose to then install virus protection and a firewall with updates, and then get all the updates for the OS. Others may opt to get all the updates for the OS first before the virus protections and firewall.

This is very good information Alex666. Thanks very much. So if I were to buy a mainboard and it comes with drivers, I should first install the OS and then the mainboard drivers? I definitely believe you, but that seems a little backward to me for some reason--don't know why. It seems that the drivers that come with the mainboard would get everything working enough so that you could properly install an operating system. Obviously, like you pointed out, it doesn't work like that. I also have seen people say that with a new build, it's best to only install the necessary components first and add new hardware items one at a time. My question is what are all the necessary components? Would that be the mainboard, power supply, and memory? Thanks again for all your help. Heck, If I hang around here long enough, I might not actually be a computer idiot any more...:):)

[Sylvander]

Yes, just wait 'till the Win98 CD arrives. :D
I just thought that you could study Win95 meantime.

alex666 obviously knows his stuff here.
On the right track I'd say.

"Does the fact that config.sys and autoexec.bat are not being installed indicate a problem with the emm386 driver?"
No that's putting the cart before the horse.
Windows would put appropriate settings in these files as decided by what hardware it detects during setup.
emm386 controlls memory usage and is normally loaded [in Win95] by a setting in config.sys.

[alex666]

OS first, then drivers. It may seem counterintuitive, but recall that you can run your computer in safemode, which uses no drivers. Your OS gets you up and running.

When you install 98se, you won't have to sweat emm386 and all of that stuff. You really won't have to worry about your autoexec and config sys, either. I happen to be using 98se right now, the one I installed the other day, and the only thing in autoexec is a line from my antivirus software, which installed automatically. Config.sys is blank. The reason I installed 98se on this hdd is that some older games my 7 y-o son plays actually run better on 98se than XP. It was fun installing it, had not installed 98se for a while. In some ways it almost runs a bit quicker, yet less stable, I've already received a couple of "illegal operation" notices and the system has frozen a couple of times. These have occurred while I've been tweaking stuff, but all is well now.

Good luck and be sure to post back when you get 98se should you have any problems.

marty

[Sylvander]

"you can run your computer in safemode, which uses no drivers"
I think all hardware that's under the control of Windows must have drivers telling the BIOS what to get the hardware to do. Safe mode uses basic drivers supplied by the Windows CD.

"When you install 98se, you won't have to sweat emm386"
I think emm386 is still in use by Win98 but it is loaded by settings that are now in the registry, having been "migrated" there from the Win95 "config.sys".

"You really won't have to worry about your autoexec and config sys, either"
I use Win98.
My config.sys has:
"device=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\display.sys con=(ega,,1)
Country=044,850,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\country.sys"

My autoexec.bat has:
"@C:\PROGRA~1\GRISOFT\AVG6\bootup.exe
mode con codepage prepare=((850) C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\ega.cpi)
mode con codepage select=850
keyb uk,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\keyboard.sys
SET PATH=C:\PROGRA~1\COMMON~1\FOLIOS~1;%PATH%"

There used to be more settings but some have been migrated into the registry.

[alex666]

I think you missed my point, which was one usually does not have to "sweat" the system files in 98se. Most people who use 98se never have to touch any of the system files such as autoexec.bat, config.sys, and so forth. Yes, they are still used, as I indicated when I mentioned that my antivirus software was listed in my autoexec file. Re. no drivers in safemode, yes, I think you are correct, I should have said a bare minimum of drivers.

marty

[FastLearner]

Well guys. Get ready to laugh. First, I tried installing my 120-day evaluation copy of Win 2k Pro (figured it wouldn't hurt)--the thing worked perfectly. When I say perfectly, I mean every peripheral and storage device was working in harmony--it almost brought me to tears I was so relieved. An then, get ready to laugh, while I was looking for some software to install on the machine, you know what I found in my closet???
.
.
.
.
.
You'll never guess
.
.
.
I found my Compaq Quick Restore CD..:):):):):)
.
You know what's even funnier, I inserted the cd on top of Win 2k, and the cd had the entire version of Win 98 reinstalled on my system (no more trace of Win 2k). Works like a charm with cd rom, floppy, the whole shiddelaboom..):):):)

Lesson learned:

ALWAYS keep the Quick Restore CD handy just in case of emergency. I can't believe I went through all that I did, and I had the cd the whole time. Oh well, at least I learned a lot along the way. I thank you all again for your help.

:) eot

[Sylvander]

GREAT ! :D

Now you start thinking of how to BACK UP your software.
A lot of people like GHOST.

[alex666]

Great. Enjoy.

marty

[ms-fixit]

When I used to support win95 & win98 for a pc manufacturer - when we got the device IOS errors - we formatted each drive - then reinstalled everything from scratch. If I remember correctly "IOS" part of windows is set up during the install - it is hardware related - the only way to fix that one was to reinstall the entire OS.

The flags on the IDE controllers and things might be related to bus mastering under win95 , but not win98 - again this is core hardware and OS file - so a complete format and reinstall is indicated. I hate reinstalling an OS, but this is one of the few errors where I go ahead and do it.

[FastLearner]

I'd hate to think that reinstalling the OS was the only way to tackle the problem, but it sure was the easiest...:)

I have read through some other threads and I am aware that reinstalling operating systems should always be the last resort for someone with a problem. The facts in this case were such that reinstalling the operating system was no big deal since I had:

-Zero important files on the system to recover
-already tried all of the obvious steps to narrow the problem down to a software one
-reached about the end of my sanity!

In my case, reinstalling was the best option, but I would still only recommend it as a last resort in most cases--especially when people have files that they wouldn't necessarily like to sacrifice.

Once again, I thank the people who helped me out in learning so much during the past week,

[ms-fixit]

The only thing worse than having to reinstall an operating system, is having to walk a complete computer newbie through reinstalling their operating system, over the phone <G>.

[alex666]

If you ever get into building computers, installing an OS is a breeze. I remember updating win98se to XP on my wife's computer a couple of years ago, and sitting there and sweating it. I started building computers after that, and now it's like absolutely no big deal. I've got to hand it to microsoft, they've done a pretty good job of keeping it simple.

One thing to consider is, once you have all your software installed and you've got all the updates for 98se and IE and whatever else needs updates, immediately backup your C drive. That way, should you get a massive virus infection or even a crashed hdd, you can easily copy your backup to a new hdd. Plus, you're backing up a pristene copy of your system, when everything is running fast, without a heavily weighted registry, and so forth. Also, it is really handy to have a second hdd where you can store important files, and backing up those files. That way, should your OS crash and fail or whatever, you've still got your important files on a separate hdd. Good hdds are so cheap nowadays, especially at places like newegg.com, an extremely reputable on-line computer store.

Glad you're all up and running. Have a great holiday.

marty

[Sylvander]

EXCELLENT ADVICE ! :D

What do you use for making backups Alex666?

[FastLearner]

What luck. I just "won" Norton System Works 2004 on eBay for 11 bucks with shipping. It includes:

Norton AntiVirus
Norton Utilities
Norton Password Manager
Norton GoBack Personal Edition
Norton CleanSweep
Norton Ghost
PerformanceTester

Heck, even if I only use the Ghost program, it will have been worth it. I'm also proud to say that I have changed my ways greatly in the past few years. Not too many years ago, I would have simply copied Ghost from someone who already had it and used it on my machine. I feel much better about installing software when I purchase it myself and know I don't have to worry about getting "nabbed!"...:) And if I can change my ways, so can anyone. BTW, what can I do with Ghost (that I can't do with the Windows restore points, for example)? I know it's not the best time to ask since I already bought it, but I figured if Sylvander recommends it then it's worth a few bucks..:)

[alex666]

Sylvander, I've used Drive Image 2002 for the past couple of years. It's the only known backup software (per Maximum PC) that allows you to backup sata drives (I've got a raptor on one of my computers). But even given that, I have used it for several years now with great success on my ide drives as well. I've had a few problems here and there with my wife's Dell, but generally I find it pretty straightforward. Usually, I use the DR-DOS version that DI 2002 has you create onto two floppies to do all the work. You boot from the floppies and work in a dos environment the whole way. That way, I'm not starting in Windows, then restart into DOS, and then back again into windows (that always makes me nervous for some reason). I figure I'll use DI 2002 as long as XP remains the prominent OS. It works just great with 98se as well. I was very sorry to see Symantec fold, they produced great products.

Newbie, Ghost 2004 may actually incorporate features of DI 2002 as Symantec purchased Powerquest a year or so back, and I recall reading something about that.

I always make a copy of my hdd onto CD-Rs right after installing the OS and doing all the updates, installing key programs such as Office with updates. In essence, you create your own "restore" disks, and it saves the hassle of having to reinstall updates should I ever need to reinstall my OS. It's extremely reassuring knowing that those CD-Rs are sitting in the closet. Boy, having that backup has saved me a couple of times. For my raptor, which is on my main computer and where I house XP and all my programs, I use DI 2002 to back it up to another dedicated backup hdd that I got on sale at Staples as I add programs and stuff, so I have a more current backup. Copying to a hdd is really fast.

marty

[Sylvander]

Just a couple of hours ago I updated to "AVG version 7.0 Free Edition", and it's causing some small glitches [my processor began to run at 100% (using all spare capacity), and the scanning of emails on the server was preventing Mailwasher from fetching the headers, and I cannot get it to succeed in making an "AVG Rescue Boot Disk"].
It's nice to know therefore, that I have a backup waiting in case I figure the easiest fix is to restore and begin again.

ALEX666
Perhaps you could give us a run-through of what Drive Image does and what are the steps involved for you the user.

It's nice to hear someone else talk of making a backup [your own personal "restore" disk] immediately after building the software.
I backup to CD-RW disks, but I like the idea of [faster] backup to another physical HDD.

[alex666]

Sylvander, I've used AVG, still on version 6. Never had problems with it, except for making those damned backup disks. On two different computers, I've been unsuccessful. For a while I thought it was the floppies I used, but that was not it. I finally gave up.

As for Drive Image, it makes backups, a couple of different ways. One way is simply a "drive copy", i.e., you simply copy one drive to another. With my albatron system, that is what I do, I simply copy my 74gig raptor sata hdd to a 60 gig maxtor ide drive. Never had any problems with this, even though the latter is smaller. Keep in mind that I have only one partition on the raptor, and it's the full size of the drive, with only about 25gigs actually used. I have been unsuccessful copying the hdd I installed in my wife's Dell, an 80gig wd special edition (one 80g partition), to a smaller 30gig maxtor, even though only approx. 6 gigs are used on the wd. I'm not sure why I have been unsuccessful, but her computer has been difficult to deal with on a number of issues, not just copying drives. In any case, re. the raptor, I once had to restore the raptor from the maxtor because of a faulty video driver install, and it went flawlessly. Also, by copying one drive (source) to a second drive (destination), you can then insert the destination drive into your computer and be up and running immediately. Hence, this is a nice solution should your main drive ever crash and die. In my case, should the raptor die, I can immediately be up and running with the maxtor (albeit much much much more slowly - - - the raptor is just a jewel of a drive). My general strategy in making backup copies is to do so when I have installed a major program or made a significant upgrade and everything seems to be running very well. At that point, I'll update my backup copy.

The other way of backing up is to copy an "image" of your drive. I cannot explain the technical aspects of how a "copy" differs from an "image", but you can copy an image of one drive to another source, either a hdd, cd-rs, or onto cd-rws. The image is basically one huge file. Thus, you can copy an image to a backup hdd where you might have other files as well, at least I think you can do that (I never have, however). Immediately after I install an OS with all the updates and any crucial programs like Office, antivirus, in my case SPSS, Quicken, and a few other key programs I use regularly, I then make a copy, a "restore disk" (actually a set of disks) of sorts onto cd-rs. That way I have a pristene copy of the drive. Usually after I install all the updates and programs and such, I use up about 4 - 6 gigs. Using DI 2002, which compresses the image, and using cd-rs as my backup media, it takes about 4 - 6 cdrs. Should I need to reinstall the OS (and I have on a number of occasions), you simply start up DI 2002 via the dos-floppies (you also can use the program CD) and click on "restore", and it directs you as to what you have to do. I'm sure other backup programs, especially those that create images like Ghost, have a similar format and procedure.

On the two computers that lack a dedicated backup hdd (we have 3, well, actually 5 but only 3 that are functioning), I will periodically make backup images using cd-rws. It pretty much works the same way as cd-rs except that you can of course re-use the cd-rws. On my soltek system, which lacks a dedicated backup hdd, I made a set of "restore" disks on cd-rs, and then I've made a series of backup images on cd-rws, each with new programs, new updates, and so forth. That was just being extra careful on my part, but when the need no longer existed to keep all of those backups, I simply reformatted the cd-rws and used them for other purposes.

I recently purchased a dvd burner. Unfortunately, DI 2002 does not work on dvds. The burner (Sony DRU-710A) came with a complete version of Nero 6, and it apparently has backup software that works with dvds. So I may shift to using Nero as my backup program at some point in the future. But for now, I'm sticking with the tried and true DI 2002.

We have so many pictures, and I have so many work reports on our computers, that I have felt compelled to be very "backup" conscious. I wish I could say all my files are organized: they aren't, believe me. And I have multiple copies of the same programs and same pictures and same songs spread across different backups. But I can pretty much rest assured that, should all the C drives crash tomorrow on our 3 working computers, I will lose no data. Somewhere I have a copy.

marty

[Sylvander]

It sounds like you have everything under control alex666. :D

I'm just about to re-format my C: drive and re-store my latest backup so as to "jump back" to when I had AVG 6.0 installed.
This will lose me the update to Spybot 1.3, but hey ho, I can re-do that installation.
I think I'll then uninstall AVG 6.0 before installing AVG 7.0 to see if things work better that way.

[alex666]

Thanks for the heads up re. AVG 7. I'll be anxious to know if it works okay with avg6 removed. I like to keep up to date on security programs. I keep crossing my fingers that AVG will continue to provide free AV software.

marty

[Sylvander]

See the latest on that here
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?p=209123#post209123

[alex666]

I'll be following this. Again, thanks much. I appreciate your efforts.

marty

[ms-fixit]

Yep good call. In setting up a new computer I always repartition, redo the MBR, & format the drive as bootable. Next I copy the OS cab files to the hard drive & reboot & then install the OS from those cab files right from the hard drive. This way I never have to dig out the OS cdrom when I need it for an install of a driver or a configuration change, it automatically goes back to those files I installed from on the hard drive. After that the OS is updated & patched - then I install the anti-virus and update it - then install crucial applications (Firefox, Thunderbird, IZarc, Acrobat Reader (for PDF files), video codecs, irfanview, special utilities & applications I like, etc) then I use Drive Image to do the drive itself as a backup.

I also use Nero Ultra 6 to do cdrom backups of data files I want to keep. I can restore the whole computer to pristine in about an hour...the only thing not addressed here RE: backups is where I keep data files - I make sure every program puts data files or backup files in "My Documents" and "c:\windows\application data\" so I know I only need to backup those two locations. I manually copy internet favourites into the backup folder for Internet Explorer, and the bookmarks for Firefox.

The other trick I have is keeping a "c:\installs\" folder on the hard drive. Anytime I install a new freeware/shareware/downloaded program I throw a copy in that folder too. I also back it up to cdrom. Even though I am on a high speed internet connection, it saves a lot of wait time, going and getting everything all over again. It helps too when I do work for other folks on a phone connection for internet, I often have all the files I need already burned on cdrom.

P.S. I have been building computers since my old XT's 20 MB hard drive was too small, and then the CMOS/BIOS couldn't take a "new" 210 MB hard drive, and I had to learn for myself how to build a new computer from scratch - ordered all the parts, assembled, tested, and set it up.

[Sylvander]

"I also back it up to cdrom"
I just download it straight to a CD-RW disk ["Direct CD" packet writing software makes it work like a giant floppy].
Either that or download it to my "C:\00tmp" folder, then copy it to the CD-RW and use the copy in "C:\00tmp" to install, then "Erase" it.
That way all those installation files are not kept on the HDD [which frees up space].

[ms-fixit]

Believe it or not I run with only a 9 GB drive in my system - and it is about half full....who needs all that space <G>

[edit] for me here at home, the other two computers access this machine when they need to install anything, so leaving it here is easier than trying to find who had the cdrw last and where they might have left it :)

[Sylvander]

"I run with only a 9 GB drive in my system"
Same here, I have only 10 GB and it's only one third full ! :D

[Paleo Pete]

My Primary IDE Master is a 20GB drive, split into four 5GB partitions, Win98SE has been installed and running great for over 2 years, still have over 1.5GB free on C: partition, more than that on all 3 others, one being nothing but swap and temporary internet files, never touched for anything else. 30GB Primary IDE Slave is storage only, about 3GB used. Most of that is manuals, drivers and security utilities downloaded for use with shop repairs, plus my shop documents. Soon as the Download and Drivers folders get to about 500MB or so I burn them to CD and start over, deleting the folder contents. I don't see a need for a larger drive at all, at least not as long as I have a working CD burner...Actually I could make it easily on just the 20GB drive...

[alex666]

Geez, how old are your drives? It's hard to find drives that small nowadays. I use mostly 80g drives, as they are fairly inexpensive and have 8mg cache for a bit of a speed boost.

[ms-fixit]

You could say my drive is as old as dirt <WEG>. When I get back to work full-time one of my first priorities is a new system. I'll be keeping this one for testing components to swap in and out of systems, or spares in case of dead components on systems, etc.

I can't even play the new DOOM on this computer (PIII 900MHz., 128 MB ram, WinME) - LOL. But it does have a nice TV tuner card.....just in case we ever see NHL hockey again on tv <deep sigh>.

I am toying with the idea of getting a higher end laptop to dual boot LINUX & XP & MacOS X - we'll see...I had Mandrake for a while, but will prolly try one of the Debian based flavours next time.

I love my external CD burner because it can be run under any OS that supports USB. I might pick up another hard drive to be used external on USB as well, great for imaging customers drives. When I bought my external CD burner I avoided the BackPack series as I had seen a lot of MicroSolutions drives fail. When they first came out they were pretty good but lately, have been hearing a lot of negatives about them. I also avoid Maxtor hard drives as one of the manufacturers I worked for, used to replace about 1 in every 3 Maxtors that shipped in their systems.

[alex666]

1 in 3? Whoa! I've had pretty good luck with maxtor drives, though lately I've tended to purchase WD.

Re. external drives, I recently purchased one of those Bytecc usb 2.0 external cases that allow you to insert internal ide hdds or dvd-cd burners. Have not tried installing the latter yet, but already I've used 3 or 4 different hdds in the case and it works like a charm. Great way to have a flexible yet inexpensive external backup system.

marty