Problem with my PC

[peter14789]

Hi,

First of all I apologise if I've posted this problem in the incorrect forum, I couldn't find the appropriate one.

OK... a while ago I brought a second hand PC for a technician course which I'm current doing. The PC is Acer Power 6000, ATX Celeron 333mhz, 4gb hard drive, 32mb of ram pretty crap machine to test things on!

My problem is that as part of my course I removed all components from the PC and placed them back into the PC, I also cleared the CMOS (by removing the battery) and wiped the hard drive clear. I thought by doing this I could start from stretch and set-up CMOS and install msdos and win95 and everything will be back to normal... little did I know that it wouldn't!!!

When I startup the PC it doesn't boot properly and this statement comes up and I can't go any further:
Insert system diskette and press Enter key to reboot
Problem is that I don't have any diskettes or even manuals with this PC. Any ideas what I maybe doing wrong, or what I've missed.

Any help would be most appreciated.

[Sylvander]

See this http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/sys/booterr.htm
Click on "Disk boot failure, insert system disk and press Enter".

The BIOS could not find an OS [DOS or Windows] to hand over to.

Is the system set to boot from a floppy in the FDD?
If so was there a bootable floppy disk in the drive.

Or from the HDD?
If so has the HDD been partitioned and formatted and is there any OS on the HDD?
Did you sys C: to copy the DOS OS to the C: drive/partition?

To figure out what you failed to do we need to know exactly what you did do.
Give the details.

[david eaton]

That is a normal nessage if the system cannot find a disk to boot from. If you have wiped the hard drive, you now need a boot floppy, with CD drivers so that you can install an OS. if you don't have a boot floppy, one can be downloaded from here (www.bootdisk.com) The most useful, for your purposes, is probably a Win98 boot disk.

[peter14789]

Is the system set to boot from a floppy in the FDD?
If so was there a bootable floppy disk in the drive.
Yes, the boot sequence is set as - Floppy, HD, CD ROM. No floppy was in the drive as I don't have any boot diskettes or CD's.

Or from the HDD?
If so has the HDD been partitioned and formatted and is there any OS on the HDD?
Did you sys C: to copy the DOS OS to the C: drive/partition?
I don't think so, how can I achieve this?

To figure out what you failed to do we need to know exactly what you did do.
Give the details.

Its states in the link you provided this message:

Diagnosis: All of the bootable drives in the system are not functioning. Normally this means that the floppy disk drive is either absent or not functioning, or has no disk in it, and the hard disk is either not connected or has no bootable active partition on it.So my problem has to be that the HD has no bootable active partition on it.

That is a normal nessage if the system cannot find a disk to boot from. If you have wiped the hard drive, you now need a boot floppy, with CD drivers so that you can install an OS. if you don't have a boot floppy, one can be downloaded from here The most useful, for your purposes, is probably a Win98 boot disk.I have tried the win95 Original (Alt 1) but it still states the same message:
Insert system diskette and press Enter key to reboot

Thanks Sylvander and david eaton for your advice, its most appreciated!

[saphalline]

Ok, so the hard drive has nothing on it or is not set to be bootable, and you have no bootable floppy. That means the system is behaving normally so at least nothing is wrong with the hardware. Always a good thing!

Now at this point, you need to make a bootable floppy. Either make one on another PC (I assume you have a main PC for viewing these forums online?) or use david eaton's link to make a Win98 floppy on another PC. The second option would be the best because if you have WinXP on your main PC, you won't want to use a WinXP boot floppy to get Win95 on that older PC. The reason is because WinXP is completely different from Win95/98/ME and the boot floppies don't match.

On a side note, you might want to think about adding more RAM to your test PC. 32MB isn't that good, at least double that to 64MB if you can. Ask around, you might find a neighbor/friend or two who has a similar old PC sitting around with nothing to do.

[peter14789]

Now at this point, you need to make a bootable floppy. Either make one on another PC (I assume you have a main PC for viewing these forums online?)

Yes, I also have a dell PC

or use david eaton's link to make a Win98 floppy on another PC. The second option would be the best because if you have WinXP on your main PC, you won't want to use a WinXP boot floppy to get Win95 on that older PC. The reason is because WinXP is completely different from Win95/98/ME and the boot floppies don't match.

I have already tried the win95 Original (Alt 1) but it still states the same message:

Insert system diskette and press Enter key to rebootOn a side note, you might want to think about adding more RAM to your test PC. 32MB isn't that good, at least double that to 64MB if you can. Ask around, you might find a neighbor/friend or two who has a similar old PC sitting around with nothing to do.

I was thinking about upgrading the RAM, but first step is to just get it working.

I think I've come to the concusion that either my hard drive isn't functioning properly or has no bootable active partition on it. Or, my floppy Disk Drive isn't working as each time I insert a diskette the same message appears. Is there anyway I can check that these components are working correctly?

[FastLearner]

Which OS does your other computer have? Naturally your hard drive doesn't have any partitions on it yet because you have wiped the drive. The first step is to boot the computer, which theoretically you need no hard drive to do. But you do need a boot disk, preferably one made from a working win 98 machine. If you do not have one, use David Eaton's link to download yourself one and copy the contents onto a floppy.

Once you have booted the machine into DOS, then and only then can you add your Win 95 OS. I have seen no evidence yet that your hard drive is not functional. We'll have to wait until you try to install your OS to verify that?

[peter14789]

Which OS does your other computer have?

Windows XP, I've tried to install this operating system onto the PC but it states you need at least 64mb of RAM

Naturally your hard drive doesn't have any partitions on it yet because you have wiped the drive. The first step is to boot the computer, which theoretically you need no hard drive to do. But you do need a boot disk, preferably one made from a working win 98 machine. If you do not have one, use David Eaton's link to download yourself one and copy the contents onto a floppy.

Why do I have to find a win 98 boot disk, don't you mean a win 95 boot disk because I want to install the windows 95 OS afterwards?

Once you have booted the machine into DOS, then and only then can you add your Win 95 OS. I have seen no evidence yet that your hard drive is not functional. We'll have to wait until you try to install your OS to verify that?

Shall I try all the win 95 boot diskette downloads from the link which David Eaton provided? As I've tried a few and the same message keeps appearing...Insert system diskette and press Enter key to reboot

[FastLearner]

1) do not bother attempting to install WinXP on that machine. It requires at least 256 MB, but most prefer to have at least 512 of RAM, for it to function properly.

2) you are better off using a Win 98 boot disk. It has way more drivers to support your equipment, and to be honest, I personally have never had any luck with a Win 95 boot disk. Even if you plan on installing Win 95, you should still use a Win 98 boot disk.

You can certainly try a Win 98 boot disk from David's link. I have had more success creating them from known working machines than I have from downloaded versions, but if you don't know anyone else with Win 98, it's your only shot.

[peter14789]

You can certainly try a Win 98 boot disk from David's link. I have had more success creating them from known working machines than I have from downloaded versions, but if you don't know anyone else with Win 98, it's your only shot.

OK I have tried all of the following boot disks but with every disk shows the following message... :

This is not a bootable diskette. Remove it and press a key to restart.Windows 98 OEM | Alt1 | Alt2
Windows 98 Custom, No Ramdrive | Alt1 | Alt2 | Alt3
Windows 98 SE OEM | Alt1 | Alt2
Windows 98 SE Custom, No Ramdrive | Alt1 | Alt2 | Alt3

I have also tried this boot disk
Windows 95 Original | Alt1
but the same message appears

What do you think the problem might be?

[saphalline]

Ok, you cleared the CMOS data at one time, but did you back into the BIOS and check the settings? You might actually need to enable the FDD/IDE controllers for them to work, although this is unlikely. Still, get into the BIOS and see if anything is amiss.

Perhaps your floppy drive cable is on upside down. Does the floppy light ever go off when you reboot the machine? Likewise, check the IDE cables to make sure they're on correctly. Also, how are the hard drive and CD drive jumpered? Are they on the same IDE channel or separate ones?

[peter14789]

Also, how are the hard drive and CD drive jumpered? Are they on the same IDE channel or separate ones?

How do you enable both the HD and CD ROM to be on the same IDE channel, do you place them both on slave?

[saphalline]

Most mobos support two IDE channels, those are the two IDE slots on the mobo itself - primary and secondary IDE channels. Each one of those channels can support two drives - one master, one slave. So you can have 4 IDE drives total - primary master, primary slave, secondary master, and secondary slave.

To put two drives on their own channel, you'd have a primary master and the other a secondary master, each plugged into one of the IDE slots on the mobo (so you'd need two IDE cables). Both drives would then be jumpered as master, or cable select if you want.

To put two drives on the same channel, you'd have a primary master and a primary slave (they could also be secondary master & slave depending on which IDE channel you use), so both would be plugged into the same IDE slot using a single IDE cable. The drives would then be jumpered as one master and one slave, or both cable select although that doesn't work very well on some OEM mobos.

[FastLearner]

Also, just to rule out the possibility that you're not using a bad boot disk, I have just published one from my own personal collection of boot disks that I created with a Win98 SE machine. Find it here (http://garyvogt.net/win98bootdisk/).

You will have to download the files one at a time, but just save them all in one folder on your machine and write them one at a time to a formatted floppy.

[peter14789]

To put two drives on the same channel, you'd have a primary master and a primary slave (they could also be secondary master & slave depending on which IDE channel you use), so both would be plugged into the same IDE slot using a single IDE cable. The drives would then be jumpered as one master and one slave, or both cable select although that doesn't work very well on some OEM mobos.OK, I have now setup the HDD to Primary Master and the CD ROM to Primary Slave using one IDE Cable.

Ok, you cleared the CMOS data at one time, but did you back into the BIOS and check the settings? You might actually need to enable the FDD/IDE controllers for them to work, although this is unlikely. Still, get into the BIOS and see if anything is amiss.This CMOS is really basic compared to my other CMOS on my dell... I've had a look inside the CMOS and everything looks fine!

Perhaps your floppy drive cable is on upside down. Does the floppy light ever go off when you reboot the machine? Likewise, check the IDE cables to make sure they're on correctly. I've just checked this and again it seems to look ok, the red tracer is pointing to the lowest pin number and its in there perfectly. The floppy light comes on shortly after the acer page disappears.

[peter14789]

Also, just to rule out the possibility that you're not using a bad boot disk, I have just published one from my own personal collection of boot disks that I created with a Win98 SE machine. Find it here (http://garyvogt.net/win98bootdisk/).

You will have to download the files one at a time, but just save them all in one folder on your machine and write them one at a time to a formatted floppy.Thanks! I'll give it a try.

[peter14789]

Also, just to rule out the possibility that you're not using a bad boot disk, I have just published one from my own personal collection of boot disks that I created with a Win98 SE machine. Find it here (http://garyvogt.net/win98bootdisk/).

You will have to download the files one at a time, but just save them all in one folder on your machine and write them one at a time to a formatted floppy.I can't seem to download the following files: config.sys and msdos.sys

[FastLearner]

You will definitely need those files! I'm not sure why you can't download them because I am able to download them fine from here. Can anyone else verify this?

[peter14789]

You will definitely need those files! I'm not sure why you can't download them because I am able to download them fine from here. Can anyone else verify this?Is there anywhere else I can download them from?

[FastLearner]

That was definitely the best boot disk I have (saved my rear-end on many an occasion). I really cannot imagine why you are not able to download them from the link I gave. I am not sure if simply copying one of the msconfig.sys files and msdos.sys files from a boot disk you have already downloaded onto your new boot disk from me would be okay. Perhaps you could try downloading the files again? I'm re-uploading the page as we speak. Should be ready in about 45 seconds.

[peter14789]

That was definitely the best boot disk I have (saved my rear-end on many an occasion). I really cannot imagine why you are not able to download them from the link I gave. I am not sure if simply copying one of the msconfig.sys files and msdos.sys files from a boot disk you have already downloaded onto your new boot disk from me would be okay. Perhaps you could try downloading the files again? I'm re-uploading the page as we speak. Should be ready in about 45 seconds.I've been downloading each file individually onto my desktop, when I click my the following files here is what appears:

config.sys

[menu]
menuitem=CD, Start computer with CD-ROM support.
menuitem=NOCD, Start computer without CD-ROM support.
menuitem=HELP, View the Help file.
menudefault=CD,30
menucolor=7,0

[CD]
device=himem.sys /testmem:off
device=oakcdrom.sys /D:mscd001
device=btdosm.sys
device=flashpt.sys
device=btcdrom.sys /D:mscd001
device=aspi2dos.sys
device=aspi8dos.sys
device=aspi4dos.sys
device=aspi8u2.sys
device=aspicd.sys /D:mscd001

[NOCD]
device=himem.sys /testmem:off

[HELP]
device=himem.sys /testmem:off

[COMMON]
files=10
buffers=10
dos=high,umb
stacks=9,256
devicehigh=ramdrive.sys /E 2048
lastdrive=zmsdos.sys

;W98EBD

[FastLearner]

Then you have successfully downloaded the correct files. Make sure you have all of those files on one floppy and stick in in your drive and reboot. If it does not work, then at least we know the boot disk is not the problem.

[peter14789]

Then you have successfully downloaded the correct files. Make sure you have all of those files on one floppy and stick in in your drive and reboot. If it does not work, then at least we know the boot disk is not the problem.Sorry you misunderstood me, when I click on the links config.sys and msdos.sys it takes me to a page with the text which I've just posted in the above thread. I can't download these files, I can only view them.

Is anyone else having this problem?

[FastLearner]

Well, either way. Copy and paste that text into Notepad. Save the files as "config.sys" and "msdos.sys" (with the quotes to make sure no extra extensions are added) respectively to your desktop. Then you can copy those files over to the boot disk. Take that disk, open it and make sure you have all of the files that I have listed on my web page and reboot.

Download is still working fine from my end.

[FastLearner]

Hopefully that works out. If not, I'M off to work and I'm sure someone else will take over.

If it doesn't, you may still have some remnants of your failed XP installation floating around looking for a completely different set of startup programs, but I doubt it. The Win 98 boot disk should work anyway.
Another thing I would try if this does not work is to really reset the CMOS by taking the battery out and leaving it out overnight to make sure it really resets.

Best of luck.

[peter14789]

Hopefully that works out. If not, I'M off to work and I'm sure someone else will take over.

If it doesn't, you may still have some remnants of your failed XP installation floating around looking for a completely different set of startup programs, but I doubt it. The Win 98 boot disk should work anyway.
Another thing I would try if this does not work is to really reset the CMOS by taking the battery out and leaving it out overnight to make sure it really resets.

Best of luck.I done as you said and it still states the same message, so it can't be the boot disk which is the problem, it must be something else. Thanks for your help anyway, it is much appreciated!

I'll reset the CMOS over night to see if thats the problem. I'll let you know how I get on...

[peter14789]

I'll reset the CMOS over night to see if thats the problem. I'll let you know how I get on...Just an update: I've managed to use a startup disk and now at A: Prompt and I'm also able to get onto D: Prompt. Shall I try and install Windows 95? If not, what would my next step be?

Thanks,
peter14789

[FastLearner]

boot into dos with cd rom support. at the prompt, type
e:\setup.exe <enter>
The cd rom should spin and the installation should be underway. I'm thinking your d drive in dos is what your c drive normally is.
Let us know what happens..:)

[peter14789]

boot into dos with cd rom support. at the prompt, type
e:/setup.exe <enter>
The cd rom should spin and the installation should be underway. I'm thinking your d drive in dos is what your c drive normally is.
Let us know what happens..:)Its not working when typing e:/setup.exe

From A: Prompt it states - Invalid drive specification
From C: Prompt it states - Invalid drive specification
From D: Prompt it states - Invalid drive specification

[FastLearner]

hmmm. I think I mixed the slash up. I tried to edit the last post, but it was too late I think. Type:

e:\setup.exe

[peter14789]

hmmm. I think I mixed the slash up. I tried to edit the last post, but it was too late I think. Type:

e:\setup.exeIts still the same after typing e:\setup.exe

From A: Prompt it states - Invalid drive specification
From C: Prompt it states - Invalid drive specification
From D: Prompt it states - Invalid drive specification

[FastLearner]

hmmm. my dos needs a little work i think.

Try this at the a:\ prompt. Type:

cd e:\ <enter>
setup.exe <enter>

If that does not work (only), try the same replacing e with d

If it still does not work, your dos file is incorrect. Try a different boot disk. Were you able to use the one I gave you yesterday?

[peter14789]

Try this at the a:\ prompt. Type:

cd e:\ <enter>
setup.exe <enter>

If that does not work (only), try the same replacing e with d

After a:\>cd e:\ - Invalid drive specification appears
After a:\>cd d:\ - Just A:\> appears

If it still does not work, your dos file is incorrect. Try a different boot disk. Were you able to use the one I gave you yesterday?

I've have tried lots of boot disks but the only one which works is a Windows SE Boot Disk, which states on boot that its actually a Win 98 Boot Disk

Is there a way to install win 95 directly from the CD?

[FastLearner]

you need cd rom support before you can install from the cd. you get this from the boot disk.

if you use the boot disk from me (which I recommend because I know it to be a working boot disk), are you receiving a menu in the way of "boot to dos with cd-rom support"? If so, make sure you choose that option. We have to make sure your drives are being recognized. Once you get to the a:\ prompt, put the cd into the cd-rom drive. Type:

cd e:\<enter>
dir<enter>

cd f:\
dir<enter>

cd g:\
dir <enter>

etc.

One of these should make the cd rom start spinning.

Once you figure out the letter that dos has given your cd rom drive (I was assuming it was e:\, but I could be mistaken, type

setup.exe athe the prompt

[peter14789]

you need cd rom support before you can install from the cd. you get this from the boot disk.

None of the boot disks work except this Windows SE Disk

if you use the boot disk from me (which I recommend because I know it to be a working boot disk), are you receiving a menu in the way of "boot to dos with cd-rom support"? If so, make sure you choose that option. We have to make sure your drives are being recognized. Once you get to the a:\ prompt, put the cd into the cd-rom drive.

These are the options I have, shall I select the second option?

1) Start windows 98 setup from CD ROM
2) Start computer with CD ROM support
3) Start computer without CD ROM support

[FastLearner]

mine was also a windows 98 se boot disk. anyway, yes! choose option 2)

[peter14789]

Type:

cd e:\<enter>
dir<enter>

cd f:\
dir<enter>

cd g:\
dir <enter>

etc.

One of these should make the cd rom start spinning.

Once you figure out the letter that dos has given your cd rom drive (I was assuming it was e:\, but I could be mistaken, type

setup.exe athe the promptI have tried to type cd e:\ etc... but without any luck, but when I get into D: prompt and then type dir all the files from my windows 95 CD appear, can we work from this?

[FastLearner]

yes. does the cd rom spin when you type dir at the d:\ prompt?

If so, then it appears as though dos has assigned the letter d to your cd rom drive. Usually from what I have seen it's e:, but it really doesn't matter. If it does spin with the dir command, then at the d:\ prompt, type setup.exe

[peter14789]

yes. does the cd rom spin when you type dir at the d:\ prompt?

If so, then it appears as though dos has assigned the letter d to your cd rom drive. Usually from what I have seen it's e:, but it really doesn't matter. If it does spin with the dir command, then at the d:\ prompt, type setup.exeUnfortuneately it doesn't spin after typing in dir and it states Bad command or file name after typing in setup.exe

[FastLearner]

what does show up when you type dir at the d:\ prompt? How do you know these are your Windows 95 setup files?

I have to go pick up my kids, but I'll be back in about a half hour. Hopefully someone will see what I'm missing in the mean time. Til then.

[peter14789]

what does show up when you type dir at the d:\ prompt? How do you know these are your Windows 95 setup files?

From D: Prompt, after I type dir the following files appear:

admin.dir
datalink.dir
demos.dir
drivers.dir
funstuff.dir
help.dir
other.dir
readme.txt
sampler.dir
win95.dir

[FastLearner]

and it shows this without the cd rom spinning at all? has the cd rom spun at all (except for when you power the computer on)? I was hoping to see some sort of executable file there, but it looks like there're just folders. type cd win95 <enter> then dir <enter> at the d:\ prompt and look for some sort of setup program with an .exe extension. What's in this folder?

[peter14789]

type cd win95 <enter> then dir <enter> at the d:\ prompt and look for some sort of setup program with an .exe extension. What's in this folder?

Lots of files, here are the ones which are visable on my screen, there are more but I can't see them:

win95_10 cab
win95_11 cab
win95_12 cab
win95_13 cab
win95_14 cab
win95_15 cab
win95_16 cab
win95_17 cab
win95_18 cab
win95_19 cab
win95_20 cab
win95_21 cab
win95_22 cab
win95_23 cab
win95_24 cab
win95_25 cab
win95_26 cab
win95_27 cab
win95_28 cab
wowkit.exe
xmsmmgr.exe

[FastLearner]

type dir /p <enter>

This will pause the screen after it is full. Then I think it is the spacebar to see the next screen(s)

[peter14789]

type dir /p <enter>

This will pause the screen after it is full. Then I think it is the spacebar to see the next screen(s)OK, here are all the .exe files which come up:

cs3kit.exe
extract.exe
scandisk.exe
scanprog.exe
setup25i.exe
setup32.exe
smartdrv.exe
swinst4.exe
wb16off.exe
wowkit.exe
xmsmmgr.exe

[FastLearner]

what does show up when you type dir at the d:\ prompt? How do you know these are your Windows 95 setup files?

From D: Prompt, after I type dir the following files appear:

admin.dir
datalink.dir
demos.dir
drivers.dir
funstuff.dir
help.dir
other.dir
readme.txt
sampler.dir
win95.dir

This was the contents of your D drive. I just realized I had a Windows 95 cd, so I looked at the contents. It seems to match perfectly--except for one major difference. I have the file setup.exe along with all of the other files you have. If you don't have this file, then it would appear that you are not using a factory-produced version of Windows 95 or your cd has become corrupted somehow. Just for kicks, try dir /p at the d:\prompt, as you may have missed this file before.

Type: setup.exe and hit enter if it is there. If it is not there and you can promise us you are using a full-version Windows 95 disk (not an OEM version or copied version or something like that), then I can always attach the file for you to use. Just not sure how you would use it without being able to burn it onto the cd, but we can cross that bridge if we come to it... :confused:

Please attempt these last steps after a full reboot, following all the steps you have been following with the working boot disk.

[FastLearner]

Oh, and after you've tried everything, try the setup32.exe program from the win95 folder. I have this as well, but I also have another setup.exe program in there, too. It just occured to me that it is always possible that we've got two different versions of Win 95.

Either way, if we ever do hack our way through this, I think the first thing you'll probably want to do (after adding a bit of RAM) is to upgrade to a better OS, like Win 98 SE...:)

Hang in there.

[peter14789]

If you don't have this file, then it would appear that you are not using a factory-produced version of Windows 95 or your cd has become corrupted somehow. Just for kicks, try dir /r at the d:\prompt, as you may have missed this file before.

The Win 95 CD I has is from an old PC we used to have, its an original MS Windows 95 Companion.

After trying dir /r it states Invalid switch
I've also tried dir \r comes up with....

volume in drive d is w95_full_ar
directory of d:\
file not found

Type: setup.exe and hit enter if it is there.

Comes up with Bad command or file name

If it is not there and you can promise us you are using a full-version Windows 95 disk (not an OEM version or copied version or something like that), then I can always attach the file for you to use. Just not sure how you would use it without being able to burn it onto the cd, but we can cross that bridge if we come to it... :confused:

Well its definately an original CD not a copied or burned CD.

Here's a pic:

http://www.bodybuilderselite.com/images/window95.JPG

[peter14789]

Oh, and after you've tried everything, try the setup32.exe program from the win95 folder. I have this as well, but I also have another setup.exe program in there, too. It just occured to me that it is always possible that we've got two different versions of Win 95.After typing setup32.exe this message appears: Bad command or file name

[FastLearner]

well, that is definitely a genuine cd--same one I have! No need for the screenshot, but you know the policy here at the forums. Better safe than sorry.

The bad news is that if that is the same cd as mine, then why are we not finding setup.exe? In fact, it doesn't even look like it's finding the cd anymore.

Well, I am afraid I have missed something and I cannot put my finger on it. I am really hoping someone comes along and sees exactly what it is. One last chance until I will have to say we should wait for another member to come rescue us:

1) Boot computer off
2) Turn back on with boot disk in drive
3) Choose Option 2 "Start computer with CD Rom support"
4) wait for the a:\ prompt
5) at the a:\ prompt, type cd d:\
6) type setup.exe
If still no dice...

7) at the d:\ prompt, type cd win95 <enter>
6) type setup32.exe <enter> at the d:\win95\ prompt

If that does not work, then you should check to make sure that your cd rom drive is fully plugged in and all of your cables are fully seated.
.
.
.
And if you get this far and still nothing, then something is not working right, as I have done this exact procedure with at least 6 or 7 computers in my life, and it has worked every time. You may not want to hear this, but it is possible you have a hardware problem. The first suspect I would have from what I've seen is that the cd rom drive has gone bad, but I would wait for some of the experts on this site to take it from there.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for this last attempt...:)

[Cavalier90]

Having read the previous posts, I could not find out if you had actually formatted your floppy disks as bootable. Simply copying the files suggested does not work, and as I found out with Windows Me it is very difficult to create an empty bootable floppy disk. The only way I found is to create a Windows emergency disk, then remove unneccessary files, and copy on the files you want (created an AVG emergency disk this way). The Me Format command does not allow for creating a bootable disk. You would get the message you recorded above if the disks were not formatted as bootable.

As you have managed to actually boot up from a floppy, you should have noticed a virtual drive is created with the system commands in it. You should then be asked if you want to start the system with CD support, obviously answer "yes". The presence of the virtual drive increases the letters on your system so a CD ROM that was D: would become E:, and so on.

Hope this extra info helps.

[peter14789]

well, that is definitely a genuine cd--same one I have! No need for the screenshot, but you know the policy here at the forums. Better safe than sorry.

I understand.

6) type setup.exe

States: Bad command or file name again although I heard the CD ROM spinning this time!

7) at the d:\ prompt, type cd win95 <enter>
6) type setup32.exe <enter> at the d:\win95\ prompt

After typing in setup32.exe the following message appeared this program cannot be run in DOS mode

If that does not work, then you should check to make sure that your cd rom drive is fully plugged in and all of your cables are fully seated.

I have done several times now.

And if you get this far and still nothing, then something is not working right, as I have done this exact procedure with at least 6 or 7 computers in my life, and it has worked every time. You may not want to hear this, but it is possible you have a hardware problem. The first suspect I would have from what I've seen is that the cd rom drive has gone bad, but I would wait for some of the experts on this site to take it from there.

I don't think its a problem with the CD ROM Drive as its been reading other CD's as well, I think the problem is that it must be my Windows 95 CD. I think the only way to find out if that is my problem is to purchase another Win 95 or even Win 98 CD and see if it works. Nevermind, thank you very much for you help its much appreciated!

[peter14789]

Having read the previous posts, I could not find out if you had actually formatted your floppy disks as bootable. Simply copying the files suggested does not work, and as I found out with Windows Me it is very difficult to create an empty bootable floppy disk. The only way I found is to create a Windows emergency disk, then remove unneccessary files, and copy on the files you want (created an AVG emergency disk this way). The Me Format command does not allow for creating a bootable disk. You would get the message you recorded above if the disks were not formatted as bootable.

I only know how to copy the files onto a diskette, please could you explain to me how to achieve this?

As you have managed to actually boot up from a floppy, you should have noticed a virtual drive is created with the system commands in it. You should then be asked if you want to start the system with CD support, obviously answer "yes". The presence of the virtual drive increases the letters on your system so a CD ROM that was D: would become E:, and so on.

I have done this but the CD ROM drive stays as D drive.

[Cavalier90]

How did you format your floppies? I think you said you also have an XP machine. If you did use your XP machine to copy the files, start by puttting a floppy into the drive. Go to My Computer and right click the a: drive. An list of options should show up including one to format the disk. Left click this. When Format starts running it opens a box in which there is a question to make the disk an MS DOS start up disk. Click this box to put a tick in it. When the formatting is complete, copy the files to the floppy.

Good luck.

[Sylvander]

SOME POINTS

1. Are all the drives set to AUTO in the BIOS Setup?
I suspect the HDD [c:] is not being set up for use by the BIOS which is affecting the drive letter allocation.

2. You need to use a Win98 Startup disk because it includes "Real Mode" drivers for the CD-drives, whereas the Win95 Startup disk doesn't so you'd need to have a CD driver installation floppy to supplement it.

3. When you boot from the Win98 Startup disk and choose "With CD-ROM support", a RAMdrive is created in RAM to act as a temporary virtual HDD. [That may be the D: drive that you're accessing]

4. Drive letters are allocated to HDD partitions 1st [c: {d: e:}]; then the RAMdrive; then the Optical [CD] Drives. The drive letter allocation should be displayed on-screen.
If you have more than one CD-drive, the Master is named 1st and the slave 2nd.
So lets say there was only a single HDD partition = c:
The RAMdrive = d:
The Master CD-drive = e:
The slave CD-drive = f:

5. Now for those pesky DOS commands. [I'm no expert, but I have notes]
a. At the a:\> enter e: [a:\>e:]
This makes DOS focus on drive e. Prompt is now e:\>
You should now be able to type setup or setup.exe [enter] to activate the file [e:\>setup], but instead you could:
b. Now add dir /p to enter e:\>dir /p to display all the directories one page at a time.
c. I think you should see setup.exe listed; there's one in the root [and another in the Win95] folder.

[Sylvander]

A. Regarding point 1 above:
It has just clicked in my mind that you haven't partitioned and formatted the HDD yet, right? So there are no HDD partitions being allocated letters at this stage, right?
In which case YOU CANNOT INSTALL WINDOWS.
You must partition and format the HDD[s] first.
So is the RAMdrive being allocated c:?
And you are putting the Win95 CD in the the CD-drive jumpered as Master, so it's being allocated d:?

B. I tested out [on my PC] all I said [except I didn't go so far as to run "Setup.exe"].
I was able to see all the directories in the root folder and in the Win95 folder [plus the files including "setup.exe" in both locations].

In my case the HDD partitions were c: d: e:, the RAMdrive was f:, and the Master CD-drive was g: :D

[peter14789]

How did you format your floppies? I think you said you also have an XP machine.

Yes, I have a dell with an XP OS installed

If you did use your XP machine to copy the files, start by puttting a floppy into the drive. Go to My Computer and right click the a: drive. An list of options should show up including one to format the disk. Left click this. When Format starts running it opens a box in which there is a question to make the disk an MS DOS start up disk. Click this box to put a tick in it. When the formatting is complete, copy the files to the floppy.

I'll give it ago, and let you know how I get on. Thanks!

[peter14789]

If you did use your XP machine to copy the files, start by puttting a floppy into the drive. Go to My Computer and right click the a: drive. An list of options should show up including one to format the disk. Left click this. When Format starts running it opens a box in which there is a question to make the disk an MS DOS start up disk. Click this box to put a tick in it. When the formatting is complete, copy the files to the floppy.

I'll give it ago, and let you know how I get on. Thanks!I tried it but the same message appeared
Invalid system disk
Replace the disk, and then press any key

[peter14789]

1. Are all the drives set to AUTO in the BIOS Setup?
I suspect the HDD [c:] is not being set up for use by the BIOS which is affecting the drive letter allocation.

Where abouts in BIOS can I view to see if the drives are set to Auto or not? This BIOS is pretty basic, I've had a look but I can't see where it says.

2. You need to use a Win98 Startup disk because it includes "Real Mode" drivers for the CD-drives, whereas the Win95 Startup disk doesn't so you'd need to have a CD driver installation floppy to supplement it.

I have tried many Win 95 and Win 98 Boot disks and the only one which works is the Windows SE disk, which is actually a Win 98 boot disk.

3. When you boot from the Win98 Startup disk and choose "With CD-ROM support", a RAMdrive is created in RAM to act as a temporary virtual HDD. [That may be the D: drive that you're accessing]

Why I typed in dir whilst on d: prompt, the files which came up was definately win 95 files

4. Drive letters are allocated to HDD partitions 1st [c: {d: e:}]; then the RAMdrive; then the Optical [CD] Drives. The drive letter allocation should be displayed on-screen.
If you have more than one CD-drive, the Master is named 1st and the slave 2nd.

So lets say there was only a single HDD partition = c:
The RAMdrive = d:
The Master CD-drive = e:
The slave CD-drive = f:

I have checked other prompts, and d prompt is definately the CD ROM drive

5. Now for those pesky DOS commands. [I'm no expert, but I have notes]
a. At the a:\> enter e: [a:\>e:]
This makes DOS focus on drive e. Prompt is now e:\>
You should now be able to type setup or setup.exe [enter] to activate the file [e:\>setup], but instead you could:
b. Now add dir /p to enter e:\>dir /p to display all the directories one page at a time.
c. I think you should see setup.exe listed; there's one in the root [and another in the Win95] folder.

I can't get pass section A because of Invalid drive specification

[peter14789]

A. Regarding point 1 above:
It has just clicked in my mind that you haven't partitioned and formatted the HDD yet, right? So there are no HDD partitions being allocated letters at this stage, right?
In which case YOU CANNOT INSTALL WINDOWS.
You must partition and format the HDD[s] first.
So is the RAMdrive being allocated c:?
And you are putting the Win95 CD in the the CD-drive jumpered as Master, so it's being allocated d:?

Yes, this is correct! I haven't partitioned or formatted the HDD yet. How can I achieve this?

[david eaton]

Boot with the WinSE floppy.
At the A:\> prompt, type fdisk.
When asked if you want large disk support, say no (win95 does not recognise large partitions!)
Then choose option 1 "Create Dos partition or logical DOS drive.
Make a partition using all the space available.
Hit<esc> when done. Then choose option 2, to set the partition active.
Reboot.
At the prompt, type dir c:\
You should get the result "invalid media type"
Then type format c:
confirm yes at the warnings.
When the format is complete, you should be able to install Win95

[Sylvander]

"I haven't partitioned or formatted the HDD yet. How can I achieve this?"
See http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;255867 for more detail.
I use my HDD Manufacturers' [Samsung] free version of [Ontrack] "Disk Manager" to both partition & format in one action. It's MUCH simpler to use.

"Where abouts in BIOS can I view to see if the drives are set to Auto or not?"
In my BIOS the Hard Disk settings are in "Standard CMOS Setup".
Either the "Hard Disks" have settings entered manually and listed in a table or you can use the BIOS to [one off] manually detect and configure the drive parameters [it must be re-done if any jumper/drive changes are made].
In my case I have:
HARD DISKS_______TYPE
Primary Master : ___Auto
Primary Slave : ____Auto
Secondary Master : Auto
Secondary Slave : _Auto
so that the drives are all Dynamically Auto-Detected and configured at each startup.

Drive A : 1.44M, 3.5in

BIOS FEATURES SETUP
Boot Sequence : A,C
Boot Up Floppy Seek : Enabled

INTEGRATED PERIPHERALS SETUP MENU
Onboard FDD Controller : Enabled
Check also that the [both the Primary and] Secondary PCI IDE Controller is enabled.
My setting is:
Internal PCI/IDE : Both

Check that your FDD is functional.
Use some floppy with a suitable program on it to test.
www.tufftest.com/free.htm is good, it tests your hardware.
Your HDD manufacturers' test utilities would test your HDD.

[peter14789]

Boot with the WinSE floppy.

I assume I select option 2: Start Computer with CD ROM support?

At the A:\> prompt, type fdisk.
When asked if you want large disk support, say no (win95 does not recognise large partitions!)
Then choose option 1 "Create Dos partition or logical DOS drive.
Make a partition using all the space available.
Hit<esc> when done. Then choose option 2, to set the partition active.
Reboot.

Reboot, meaning pressing: Ctrl, Alt & Delete?

Again do I startup with option 2: Start Computer with CD ROM support?

At the prompt, type dir c:\
You should get the result "invalid media type"

After typing dir c:\ at the a: prompt the following message appears:

Volume in drive C had no label
Volume serial number is 0612-0FF6
Directory of C:\

File not found

2,146,467,840 bytes free

[peter14789]

See http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;255867 for more detail.
I use my HDD Manufacturers' [Samsung] free version of [Ontrack] "Disk Manager" to both partition & format in one action. It's MUCH simpler to use.

david eaton had just assisted me on how to partition and format the HD.

In my BIOS the Hard Disk settings are in "Standard CMOS Setup".

This BIOS setup is really basic, I was unable to find these settings. Here are the BIOS catagories I have in this setup:

System Information: Readable Only
Product Information: Readable Only
Disk Drives: Contains the FDD only set at 1.44MB 3.5inch
Onboard Peripherals: Contains info like serial and parallel ports
Power Management: Power switch, sleep mode etc...
Boot Options: Boot Sequence currently set as: Floppy, HDD, CD ROM
Time & Date; -
System Security: Password option etc...

Check that your FDD is functional.
Use some floppy with a suitable program on it to test.
www.tufftest.com/free.htm is good, it tests your hardware.
Your HDD manufacturers' test utilities would test your HDD.

I'll give it ago and let you know what happens.

[FastLearner]

Well, at least I know the step I was missing--forgot you never formatted your drive as bootable.

did you format the drive? Since you've already run fdisk, you can type:

format c: <enter>
are you sure <y/n>?->choose'y'

Just to clear up two sticky points you seem to be having trouble with:
1) When using your boot disk for this task, always choose "boot computer with cd rom support"
2) To reboot, you can use CTRL-ALT-DEL

Once your hard disk is formatted, reboot with cd rom support. When you get to the a:\> prompt, insert your cd rom and find the drive dos has assigned to your cd rom (I'm betting it's e still). You can use the past posts in this thread for guidance. At the (if e is the cd rom drive) E:\> prompt, type setup.exe <enter>

How's that?

[Sylvander]

"I assume I select option 2: Start Computer with CD ROM support?"
NO.
The notes included on the page I gave you the link to says:
"To partition a master hard disk, run the fdisk command:
a. When the Microsoft Windows 98 Startup menu is displayed, select the Start computer without CD-ROM support menu option, and then press ENTER."

"Reboot, meaning pressing: Ctrl, Alt & Delete?"
No, that's something you do within the Windows environment.
The notes say:
"L. Press ESC, and then press ESC to quit the Fdisk tool and return to a command prompt, and then view the following "How to Format a Hard Disk" section in this article."

"Again do I startup with option 2: Start Computer with CD ROM support?"
No, the notes say:
"1. Restart your computer with the Startup disk in the floppy disk drive.
[Press reset or switch off and then on.]
NOTE: If you are using a Windows 95 Startup disk, a command prompt is displayed and you can skip to step 2. If you are using a Windows 98, Windows 98 Second Edition, or Windows Me Startup disk, select the Start computer without CD-ROM support menu option when the Windows 98 Startup menu is displayed.
2. When a command prompt is displayed, type format c: /s, and then press ENTER. This command transfers the system files and should only be used when you format drive C (or your "active" drive). [The /s copies the DOS files to the drive specified {c:}.]

I suggest you follow Microsoft's instructions.

How many HDD's are fitted and what size are they?

[FastLearner]

peter, by all means listen to Sylvander's advice. I was not aware before that booting with cd rom support would make any difference whatsoever, but it may.

Sylvander: I have always been able to restart every computer (without OS) by tapping CTRL-ALT-DEL. What to do if he has no reset button?

[peter14789]

Once your hard disk is formatted, reboot with cd rom support. When you get to the a:\> prompt, insert your cd rom and find the drive dos has assigned to your cd rom (I'm betting it's e still). You can use the past posts in this thread for guidance. At the (if e is the cd rom drive) E:\> prompt, type setup.exe <enter>

E: Prompt still states Invalid drive specification

D: Prompt is still the CD ROM drive, even though I type dir no setup.exe file appears, I still believe that the actual Win 95 OS Disk is faultly!

[peter14789]

"1. Restart your computer with the Startup disk in the floppy disk drive.
[Press reset or switch off and then on.]

I don't have a reset button, so I have switched off the PC

How many HDD's are fitted and what size are they?

Just the one, its 4gbs.

I'll follow Microsoft's instructions and let you know how I get on.

Thanks,
peter14789

[peter14789]

5. Press 1 to select the Create Primary DOS Partition menu option, and then press ENTER.
6. After you press ENTER, you receive the following message:
Do you wish to use the maximum available size for primary DOS partition?

After these two stages, I get the following message:

Primary DOS Partition already exists

[FastLearner]

E: Prompt still states Invalid drive specification

D: Prompt is still the CD ROM drive, even though I type dir no setup.exe file appears, I still believe that the actual Win 95 OS Disk is faultly!

Then you have not yet formatted your drive. I am certain that following the steps Microsoft gave will get you to your goal.

Also, for learning purposes, I want to see (from Sylvander or someone else) if I am getting this right:

If someone has a new build, the steps to get Windows installed are:

1) Boot with boot disk without cd rom support
2) Run FDISK
3) Format any partitions you created with FDISK
4) Reboot with cd rom support
5) Install OS by typing setup.exe at the cd rom drive's prompt (i.e. E:\>
)

Sound about right, or am I missing something again?

[Sylvander]

"I was not aware before that booting with cd rom support would make any difference whatsoever, but it may."
The [not so] small difference that it makes is that the drivers for the CD-drives uneccessarily use up valuable space in the RAMdrive.

"I have always been able to restart every computer (without OS) by tapping CTRL-ALT-DEL"
I didn't know [or had forgotten] that. :confused:
I must try and remember to try it out. :)


"E: Prompt still states Invalid drive specification"
This suggests that the drivers on the Win98 SE startup disk [if there are any on the disk] are unsuitable. Make sure you are using a good Win98 Startup disk that includes "Oakcdrom.sys" [a generic CD driver].
Right-click on "Ebd.cab" and the default action should be "View".
Click this and you should see the files in there including "Mscdex.exe".

"Sound about right, or am I missing something again?"
Almost, you only need CD-ROM support when you're about to use the CD-drive, which you don't do in partitioning and formatting.
I too am having difficulty following the twists and turns of this thread.
There's definitely something odd afoot.

[Sylvander]

SOME POINTS

1. Your BIOS Setup includes:
System Information : Readable Only
So can you read it and what does it say about your drives?
Do the recorded drive parameters match the drives?
Is it treating your CD-drive like a HDD and vice versa?
Imagine trying to write [install Windows] to a CD-ROM drive!
Perhaps changing the Master/Slave jumpers is not permitted with this system because it expects to find them all at certain pre-determined locations.

2. You have a 4GB HDD fitted, but the 16 bit FAT used by Win95 is only capable [I think] of addressing a 2GB partition. Hence you need to re-partition the drive so no part exceeds 2GB [2+2, 2+1+1].
Your HDD OEM diagnostic floppy may include a prog to test if your BIOS can address all of your 4GB HDD. If not, to get the use of all of it you may need to use "Drive Overlay Software" or some other alternative.

3. View your Win95 CD on another PC to see if it includes the "Setup.exe" files in the root and in Win95.

[peter14789]

OK, I have gone though the MS stages after completing them and its still not picking up e: prompt, infact its not even picking up d: prompt now

1. Your BIOS Setup includes:
System Information : Readable Only
So can you read it and what does it say about your drives?
Do the recorded drive parameters match the drives?
Is it treating your CD-drive like a HDD and vice versa?
Imagine trying to write [install Windows] to a CD-ROM drive!

Here is whats written inside System Information:

Processor: Celeron
Processor Speed: 333MHZ
Internal Cache: 32KB, Enabled
External Cache: 128KB, Enabled
Floppy Drive A: 1.44MB 3.5 Inch

IDE Primary Channel Master: Hard Drive, 4112 MB
IDE Primary Channel Slave: IDE CD ROM

Total Memory: 32MB
1st Bank: SDRAM, 32MB

Perhaps changing the Master/Slave jumpers is not permitted with this system because it expects to find them all at certain pre-determined locations.

What would you suggest I change them to?

2. You have a 4GB HDD fitted, but the 16 bit FAT used by Win95 is only capable [I think] of addressing a 2GB partition. Hence you need to re-partition the drive so no part exceeds 2GB [2+2, 2+1+1].
Your HDD OEM diagnostic floppy may include a prog to test if your BIOS can address all of your 4GB HDD. If not, to get the use of all of it you may need to use "Drive Overlay Software" or some other alternative.

I don't have any HDD floppy diskettes, could you suggest any programs which I can't use as an alternative?

3. View your Win95 CD on another PC to see if it includes the "Setup.exe" files in the root and in Win95.

I have just looked at the Win 95 CD from my dell and no setup.exe is visable from the root of the disk neither in the win95 folder, hence faulty disk. I think I'm going to purchase a cheap OS from eBay to see if that works.

[FastLearner]

I have just looked at the Win 95 CD from my dell and no setup.exe is visable from the root of the disk neither in the win95 folder, hence faulty disk. I think I'm going to purchase a cheap OS from eBay to see if that works.

Yes, I would recommend that. I cannot begin to imagine what happened to Setup.exe though. At any rate, since you're buying a new OS anyway, why not go with Win 98 or newer? Post back when you receive it, so hopefully we can get this thing running.

[peter14789]

Yes, I would recommend that. I cannot begin to imagine what happened to Setup.exe though. At any rate, since you're buying a new OS anyway, why not go with Win 98 or newer? Post back when you receive it, so hopefully we can get this thing running.

Update: I purchased a cheap version of Windows 98 and the installation was successful! I'd like to thank you guys for your help and advice for finding the fault to my problem, my PC is now running perfectly :) just need some RAM!!!

[FastLearner]

Good to hear! ...and yes, some more RAM wouldn't hurt either...:)

Now is a good time, BTW, to start thinking about some sort of backup system. I use Norton Ghost, but there are many other similar programs out there that allow you to create images of your hard drive that can really come in handy if a software problem or hardware failure results in a non-bootable Operating System. Just run a search in the forums using key word "backup" and I'm sure you'll find more than enough additional info if you're interested.