LAN for broadband and file sharing

[Pikefish]

Hi everyone. I have just signed up for ADSL broadband and am anxiously waiting for the arrival of the USB modem from my ISP. I'll like to share this connection between my wife's and my PC. Mine runs on XP Professional and hers runs on 98. Also, I would like to network the two PCs for file, printer and scanner sharing. I believe I'll need two network interface cards and a router and obviously some kind of cable. Am I right in saying this? Can the USB modem be connected to the router or do I need another device?

I have been looking at some of the products online. My confusion is what is the difference between a hub and switch and router/bridge. I also read that some routers come with a firewall, like the Netgear Cable/DSL router RTR 4Port for £38 on Dabs and the Netgear VPN Firewall Router for £104. Have no idea what the difference is apart from the price :). Any opinion on these devices or any others? I live in the UK and have about £100 to spend. Finally, if either my wife or myself goes onto the Internet, do both PCs need to be on? Your help is much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

[koko]

maby the first PC where you have XP Professional ,is not much old. It means that it may have integrated LAN card on the Mainboard.
If not, you need to buy 2, for both computers.
And you need broadband modem/router, which you can ask to your ISP, instead of USB modem .
In second solution ,cheaper but worser, you can use first PC, as the gateway for another.In that case you need USB modem ,LAN cards and patch cord of appropriate lenghth.
In that case the first PC always must be on ,if second need to use internet or printer that is installed on first PC.
Also, when you have separate OS -es on the LAN you may have problems with file sharing.

[Pikefish]

Thank you for your reply Koko. To avoid confusions and conflicts in the LAN due to different OS, I am gonna get hold of a broadband modem/router and share just the Internet connection for now. In time when we upgrade the second PC to XP, we'll go into file and peripheral sharing. I believe the modem/router device will allow us to do that as well, not just the Internet connection.

I have located a Netgear modem/router online, which seems to be able to do the job just fine. Here is the link:
http://www.dabs.com/uk/channels/hardware/networking/productView.htm?quicklinx=2SR0

Thanks again.

[FastLearner]

Hi Pikefish. I just have a couple of comments for you to reinforce a couple of concepts:

1) You will want to check first with your ISP to make sure that their service supports this particular router/modem combination device. Believe it or not, not every DSL modem will work with every provider.

2) You are correct, this modem/router will also enable you and your wife to perform file and printer sharing (because it has a built-in switch), as well as allow you both to log onto the Internet at the same time.

3) Each of your computers will need a NIC of either 10 or 100 Mbps, as well as a Cat 5 cable connection to be wired directly into the router (you can add up to 4 devices with this router, so you will already be maxed out with one printer, one scanner, and 2 PCs just so you know ahead of time that adding another device won't be possible without buying additional equipment).

4) Whether both computers need to be on or not:
-to log into the Internet - no.
-to share files - yes
-to share printer - depends on if your printer is a network printer connected directly to your router with Cat 5 cable (in which case you don't need to have both computers on because you have a network printer) OR if your printer is installed directly into one of the LPT or USB ports of one of your computers, then this computer will need to be on in order to print.

5) personally, I'd rather have two separate devices--one modem and one router/switch. This will make troubleshooting a little easier and will give you more than one point of possible failure. In the case where you have this one device performing so many tasks for you, if this device fails your network is unusable. Just a thought, although for the price, it's not too expensive to replace if you ever need to.

[classicsoftware]

You will need a DSL modem that connects via ethernet and not USB.

You will need an ethernet card in each PC

You will need a router/switch combinsation. I personally prefer linksys.

You will neet cat-5 or cat-5e patch cables to connect

PC 1 to router
PC 2 router
DSL Modem to router (usually provided with the DSL modem & router)


Once you find out what you can get, please post back & we will guide you through the steps required to set up the Router and the network.

[Pikefish]

Thank you for your comments, FastLearner and classicsoftware. I am beginning to have a picture of the whole setup. FastLearner, I'll definitely check with my ISP with regards to device compatibility. I never thought of this. Yes, perhaps if there isn't a great deal in price difference, I might as well look into a 6 port modem/router for future proving, instead of the 4 which like you said, would be filled up straight away with no scope of expansion.

FastLearner, with your suggestion on using two separate devices, ie a modem and a router. It's a good idea, but I am a bit confused of the physical aspect of the setup. Do I take the two PCs will take up two ports on the router, and there is a port on the router to accommodate the modem? If this is the case, if the router breaks down, so is the LAN, isn't it, similar scenario with a one device (modem/router) setup. If the modem/router goes, the LAN goes. Oh boy, I hope I am not confusing you lol. I have been trying to extract some information for books, but the more I read, the more confused I am :(.

Classicsoftware, I have heard of linksys devices. Apparently they are pretty good. Perhaps another option for me to check with my ISP for compatibility. I visited my ISP website earlier on. Seems like they only do the one modem/router, which is wireless. I am not so keen on wireless as I heard, there can be interference. And of course, it can only support up 54mb/s. Hence, my preferred choice of a wired setup.

I'll keep checking back on here while I do my shopping preparation :). Will update you with what devices I am going for or got. Thanks for your offer on setting up the router and network.

Thank you very much guys. Sorry if some of my explanation is a bit vague.

[Pikefish]

Oops I left out one bit. FastLearner, based on the two device setup, do I take that I still need an Ethernet modem as classicsoftware commented? Thanks.

[classicsoftware]

Any DSL modem should be compatible with any router. As the router is simply a DHCP server. I'll explain that later on.

The modem must be external and it must be ethernet for this to work. The modem will not take a port on the router so unless you expect to every have 5 PC's on your network, the 4 port will be fine.

Contact your ISP for guidance...

[FastLearner]

Yes, classicsoftware is right on the money. Any dsl modem you buy should be compatible with your router. The thing you need to worry about, once again, is if the modem is compatible with your ISP's service.

I may have been a little vague on the explanation of the network expansion possibilities. If (and only if) you have a printer that will be connected directly to the router and a scanner to be connected directly to the router) then you will have no chance of expanding your network with 4 ports (2 PCs + 2 network devices). However, if one of your computers will act as a relay to the printer and scanner (which means this computer has to be on in order for the other PC to use the devices), then you will have 2 more ports free for future PCs, laptops, or other devices.

Lastly, regarding your setup question:

A 4-port router is actually a little misleading, since it really has 5 ports--4 LAN ports and one WAN port (where your external DSL modem will plugh into. Both of your PCs will connect to 2 of the 4 LAN ports (1 port each) of the router via Cat 5 Ethernet cable. From there, your external modem will be connected to the WAN port of the router via Cat 5 cable. From there your DSL modem will plug into a splitter via Cat 5 cable. And from there, your splitter will plug into your phone jack. Mostly from what I've seen, the splitter is provided by the ISP, but that's not always the case. If you have a network-capable printer and scanner (and to find out if they are, look for an RJ-45 jack on the back of the devices [where the Cat 5 cable will plug into]), the the two devices will connect to the remaining two LAN ports of your router.

I hope this clears things up a little. Don't be afraid to ask any more questions if you need help.

[yawningdog]

I sincerely doubt that pikefish has a network printer and scanner, or from the sound of things, he shouldn't.

[FastLearner]

I sincerely doubt that pikefish has a network printer and scanner, or from the sound of things, he shouldn't.

Probably you're right, but you never know. I don't see anything wrong with having a network printer, though, since that would enable him to print documents from either computer without having the one with the printer installed turned on.

I know I wish I had one at home. It's a pain in the rear having to turn on my PC every time I want to print something with my laptop...:D

[classicsoftware]

I know I wish I had one at home. It's a pain in the rear having to turn on my PC every time I want to print something with my laptop...:D

You turn your PC off? I have up to 7 PC's so my main PC which is also a file and print server stays on all of the time. The only time I turn it off is when I'm on vacation.

[Pikefish]

Hi guys, thank you for your comments. I had a look on the printer, it doesn't have a RJ45 port, and neither does the scanner. So in this sense, a 4 port router will be sufficient. As FastLearner pointed out, it is actually 4 LAN ports and 1 WAN port in a 4-router device. So, I'll still have 2 free ports, that's ok. You have given a very good explanation on the setup, FastLearner. Thank you. I have a good picture of it in my head now, what goes where and which goes where :).

The good news is my broadband has been activated. And oh man, the surfing speed lol.... fantastic, and I can be on the phone at the same time. Real goodies goodies :).

I'll keep you posted how I get on. Thanks again guys.

[classicsoftware]

Did you get the router yet?

Did you install the software that came with the DSL kit?

Is yoiur DSL PPPoE?

[Pikefish]

I haven't got the router yet classicsoftware. Gonna go out to a local store to check out some prices later. Going back to the two device set-up (separate router and modem) FastLearner pointed out, but most of the routers I have seen come with a built in modem. That really defeats the purpose of buying a separate DSL modem. So maybe I'll go with the one device setup. It is cheap enough to replace if it goes. Have seen quite a few for around £40, including Linksys ones.

What does DSL PPPoE mean? Is this something I have to look out for when I purchase the router/modem? Thanks.

[pave_spectre]

PPPoE is basically like fake dial-up, that requires you to login to your account before you can actually use the internet. Without a router you would normally use software installed on your computer to handle the authentication.

Most if not all DSL routers should support PPPoE if your ISP is using it.

[Pikefish]

Thank you pave spectre. Yes, the router I have chosen does support PPPoE.

Just a quick update everyone. I have spoken to my ISP. Seems like their network supports very limited router/modem. This is the one I have chosen, Netgear DG834:

http://www.netgear.co.uk/routers_adsl_broadband_gateway.php#DG834

The reviews are pretty on this device. In fact one of users is actually on the same ISP as me, and he is happy with the router/modem. The bundle comes with an Ethernet cable, so I'll only need to buy one more for the second PC. It also comes with a RJ11 cable, which will goes into the WAN port. A microfilter is also included, which is ideal for me, as I am one short for a phone socket in the house.

As for NIC, to rule out any incompatibility issues, I have chosen Netgear FA311. It's a basic 10/100 card with auto-sensing. The reason I opt for this is because it supports both Windows XP and 98. The reviews on this card is a mixture, but for about £8 a piece, worth giving it a try.

The total cost is £77.15 from eBuyer. Not bad at all. All there is left now is shopping :). Will update you guys once I get the gear.

[Pikefish]

I have one more question before I go shopping. I just went through all the comments above. Classicsoftware's first comment pointed out category 5 or 5e cables. Can someone please tell me what is the difference between the two? I mentioned above that the router/modem which I'll be getting, Netgear DG834, comes with an Ethernet cable. It's actually a category 5 one. Does this mean that I have to stick with 5, or can I still get a 5e for the other computer, ie using a mixture of the two. Thank you once again.

[PrntRhd]

Category5 cables support 100mbs with maximum length of 100 meters.
Category5e indicates extended range, meaning you can get a bit more length beyond the 100 meters maximum length due to a bit higher cable quality (and cost).
You can mix the two on a network with no problems, the speed will be the same for each.

[Pikefish]

Ok PrntRhd, thank you. Gonna go spend some money now :).

[classicsoftware]

Let's get one thing straight here:

In the US, I know of no retail outlet that sells DSL modems. They are provided by the ISP. Some DSL modems are also routers. I try to avoid them. Please verify that your ISP will supply you with a DSL modem and you will provide the router. Please make sure they do not supply you with a outer. If they do: you will need a different router and if they don't you will need one less ethernet cable.

You will need 4 cables:


1 RJ-11 4 wire phone cable to conns the DSL modem to the phone line
One Ethernet (cat-5 or cat-5e) cable to connect the Router to the DSL modem
One Ethernet (cat-5 or cat-5e) cable to connect the first PC to the router
One Ethernet (cat-5 or cat-5e) cable to connect the second pc to the router


Cat-5e is better and of higher quality as PR suggested. If the price is not outrageous I would go for Cat-5e.

[Pikefish]

Thank you for your reply classicsoftware. My ISP did supply me with an ADSL modem, but it's USB. And that's the only modem they supply. After what I have learnt from everyone's comments here, I need an Ethernet modem, and a router too to network the PCs and share Internet Connection. Hence my choice of the router/modem device. Most of the online stores I have seen do a range of this device. I guess it's popular here, cos ISP only supply USB modems. It's not too bad. I have been achieving a steady 576Kbps, as apposed to 45kbps hehe.

Yes, I'll be getting the cat-5e cable. Not much in price difference. I read that cat-5 is phasing out. Maybe I should get two cat-5e cables and not use the cat-5 which comes with the router/modem. My wife is thinking about getting a laptop and get rid of her old PC. But from what I have read, I can connect a wireless point (device?) to a port on the router/modem, so she can go wireless.

[classicsoftware]

If your wife is thinking about a lap-top get a wireless Modem/router. Go for the car 5e and save the other cable as a backup.

[Pikefish]

Well she keeps changing her mind lol. I am confused too. Wired one moment, wireless the next. But at least I got a very good picture of networking from the comments and help here. I heard that wireless ones can end up with lots of interference problems. Is this right, classicsoftware? I heard that their network can just drop cos of interference.

[pave_spectre]

Wireless works on the same frequency as microwaves and some cordless phones, so it can be subject to interference if your phone runs on the same frequency.

[Pikefish]

Thank you pave spectre. I hear you. It's hard to tell the frequencies of products cos they give u a range. And with so many wireless products these days, eg door chime, phones like you said, interference is imminent. This is the reason I didn't want a wireless setup. But if wife decides to have a laptop, this option might be the best to go for. I was gonna go happy shopping for the wired gear till she dropped this on me hehe. My advice to lesson number one on networking: find out what she wants :). I'll keep you guys posted.