Looking into dual-boot XP Pro/Linux system

[joea64]

I'm almost finished with building a new system (Sempron 2800+-based on a MSI K8T NeoFSR mobo, 1 GB RAM, Radeon 9550, 2x 160GB HD, LiteOn DVD-ROM and DVD burner, Hauppauge WinTV Go), just waiting on getting the Antec power supply which I expect in tomorrow's FedEx. I am interested in the possibility of making a Windows XP Pro/Linux dual-boot system. I've read several resources already but am not yet quite sure how to go about doing it; Microsoft's own "help" file is rather opaque and discusses only dual-booting MS OS'es. Among the questions I have:

1) Which version of Linux is the easiest for a newbie to use? (Well, newbie as far as actually using Linux on his own home system goes. I have a bit of experience with Linux from using it on my website's server in a remote location). I've been hearing a bit about Linspire (formerly Lindows) lately. Is it any good?

2) How large a partition should I use for the Linux OS? Remember, the drive is 160 GB and I want to reserve at least half for WinXP Pro, probably more. I know that Linux is fairly compact in and of itself but the applications might take up some more space, so I don't want to be too skimpy about it.

3) I am unclear as to the current status of being able to read/write to a NTFS-formatted drive. I know that Linux can read/write to FAT32 drives.

Here's my proposed partitioning scheme:

Master drive:

C: Win XP Pro (at least 80 MB, probably more) formatted NTFS
Linux

Slave drive:
4 logical partitions for storing various types of data (games, website-related files, media files such as pictures, general storage for downloaded items, etc.), formatted FAT32 (or NTFS if Linux has by now acquired a reliable ability to read/write to NTFS), equal size of approx. 40 GB depending on lossage caused by the partitioning/formatting process

-Joe-

[pop pop]

IMHO, Mandrake for dual boot. Knoppix for getting a nice taste of Linux without installing to your HDD.

Answers to allot of your questions can be found in this thread http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=35574.

A few of us went down this path recently. It will be a great adventure.

[joea64]

Read that thread. To be honest, I'm not quite sure how helpful the information in there will be for me since (1) I'm planning to put WinXP Pro and Linux (Mandrake possibly, following your recommendation) on the primary HD, having each in a separate partition and (2) I only plan on using one version of Linux at this point - there are so many distributions out there now that I find them impossible to keep up with! However, I'll read it again, maybe there's something I missed the first time around. (I noticed that you said you found the process of installing both OS'es on the same hard drive to be very difficult. Do you know why? Is it something that you think applied only to your own case or is it something I might have to be aware of?)

-Joe-

[pop pop]

OK. Let me boil it down cuss there was allot of peripheral stuff in that thread.

(1) I'm planning to put Win XP Pro and Linux (Mandrake possibly, following your recommendation) on the primary HID, having each in a separate partition

That's a good and easy way to go. Here's every screen (http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=193&slide=1) (well, almost) you'll go through during a Mandrake 10.1 install. When you get to partitioning, it'll see one drive with Windoze, doesn't matter what flavor. It'll ask if you want to wipe the drive (full Linux), use free space, resize Windoze, etc. That's where you tell it you want to keep say 100GB for Windoze and the rest goes for Mandrake (or Suse or whatever).

(I noticed that you said you found the process of installing both OS's on the same hard drive to be very difficult. Do you know why? Is it something that you think applied only to your own case or is it something I might have to be aware of?)

Actually, they've made the installs quite easy, even dual boot options. The problem I had was a mouse bug, post install, that has been fixed. Secondary issues, that were not really bad, were not detecting and configuring EVERYTHING--yes, I want it all, and I want it easy. Video wasn't detected and configured right off because I have an nVidea chipset graphics card and nVidea drivers are proprietary--although that's getting much better. I just told it the grahics type and selected a good driver--problem solved. The printer was not detected and configured because I have a Lexmark All-In-One Multifunction USB beast and there WERE no drivers at all for that until recently. I did the configuration myself (selected Lexmark, multifunction, USB--problem solved). There were one or two other things like that, all solved. Sorry if I sounded negative, likely I was tired and frustrated but it really worked out well.

Then there was the very small issue of making Windoze the default on startup. Again, it turned out to be so simple it was hard. I now have Mandrake dual booting with a W2K box (Linux on a 2nd physical drive) and an XP Home box (XP and Linux cohabitating nicely), all with no problems.

Probably the single greatest thing was the flawless detection of my network (wired portion) and the instantaneousness of being on the web where help is available--loved that.

All in all, you can't go wrong with Mandrake. As far as how much space you need for Linux, the OS, all apps (office suite, web authoring, graphics, CD burning, database, networking including server applications and tools, KDE and Gnome...and much much more...) only takes up maybe, maybe 3GB. So if you give Linux 40-60GB, you've got tons of room.

It's a little work but believe me, you'll like it. :D

[joea64]

Good, thanks. Now all I have to do is get around this little issue I discovered while I was googling for instructions on setting up dual boot. Seems MS in its magnificence has decreed that all users of OEM WinXP shall henceforth telephone for activation instead of doing it over the Net. Guess what I got yesterday with all the hardware I was buying for my new system...? (And I'm hearing-impaired to boot, which means I will have to disconnect the modem from the computer and rehook it to the telephone to do the activation call). Read all about it in the "Windows" forum. :mad: I think I may end up having to have someone else do the install for me and write them out very explicit instructions on how I want the primary HD partitioned.

-Joe-

[pop pop]

Another good reason to go open source as much as possible :D

[joea64]

I have a more practical question, in the meantime; when preparing the hard drive for installing XP and Linux, how (not how much space) should I partition the drive? Should I create a partition for Linux ahead of time, or should I leave the space on the hard drive empty (unpartitioned) until the time comes to install?

-Joe-

[Paul Komski]

I have used SuSE rather than Mandrake but it was really very straightforward. Install WinXP first and during its set up you can set up the additional partitions for your data before designating the partition to install XP into. Just leave enough unallocated space for the Linux installation to utilise when its time comes rather than set up distinct partitions for it in advance; 10 gig would be more than enough I would think.

Once WinXP is up and running boot to the Linux installation CD. It will setup the partitions it needs in the unallocated space and setup a multiboot menu. It should have no problems with seeing any NTFS partitions you used for WinXP.

[joea64]

OK, just did that. I decided to play it safe and allocate plenty of space to Linux, so I partitioned out 120 GB (of a 160 GB drive, actual available space is a bit over 152 GB) for the WinXP Pro partition and left the rest unpartitioned. I divided the secondary HD into five partitions for various types of data (games, other applications, website files, media files, miscellaneous storage). Proceeding...

[joea64]

WinXP is set up now and I have approximately 32 GB unpartitioned on the primary HD for Linux. Now I have to decide which distribution to get; my local Micro Center carries Mandrake, SuSE, Xandros and Linspire...

-Joe-

[Rick]

Download Mandrake for free from here

http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/ftp.php3#move

[joea64]

I picked up Mandrake Discovery (the 3-CD "beginner" version) today, which includes free 1-month membership in Mandrakeonline so that I can download exactly the software I want (I'm mainly interested in wine - and a DOS emulator if Linux has one so that I can play my old DOS games -, Mozilla Firefox and Opera [though I'm willing to experiment with Konqueror], text-editing and image-viewing/HTML-creation apps [for website work], DVD-player - if any exist - apps, and the like). Having looked at the install screens, I don't anticipate any problem if the Mandrake install routine properly sees the 32+ GB free space on the primary HD.

[pop pop]

I picked up Mandrake Discovery (the 3-CD "beginner" version) today, which includes free 1-month membership in Mandrakeonline so that I can download exactly the software I want (I'm mainly interested in wine - and a DOS emulator if Linux has one so that I can play my old DOS games -, Mozilla Firefox and Opera [though I'm willing to experiment with Konqueror], text-editing and image-viewing/HTML-creation apps [for website work], DVD-player - if any exist - apps, and the like). Having looked at the install screens, I don't anticipate any problem if the Mandrake install routine properly sees the 32+ GB free space on the primary HD.

Mandrake will satisfy all those needs and desires with a couple of caveats. With Mandrake 10.1, you need to go to Mozilla.org and download the Linux version. There are good Linux-based install instructions there also. Starting with Mandrake 10.2, FireFox is included in the distribution. As for Opera, I don't know. Same goes for DOS emulation. Everything else you listed will be available in one form or another with the distro, or somewhere online. The included website development/html tools are exceptionally good.

[joea64]

This is the download page for Opera's Linux edition. Mandrake is among the distros listed:

http://www.opera.com/download/index.dml?platform=linux

(and just for the record, Version 8 of Opera is coming Real Soon Now) and if I had bought Power Pack, an earlier version of Mozilla would have been included (that was with Version 10.1, BTW).

[joea64]

Pop Pop (or anyone else who's had mouse problems while installing Mandrake) - *help*!!!!

I installed Mandrake (Discovery) just a few minutes ago. The install itself went flawlessly, and the bootloader (lilo) works just fine, so no problem switching between Linux and XP.

So what's the problem?

The mouse. I have an Inland optical mouse, PS/2 interface, with the new system, and while it works just fine (without any special drivers, even though they were included) in XP, it (the mouse) was nonfunctional during the Linux install. In fact, when I rebooted and went back to XP, the mouse cursor turned out to be frozen at the Windows logon screen and I had to power down the system to get the mouse working again. Right now, I'm back in XP; I'm not sure how much further I can proceed with Mandrake until I figure out what's wrong with the mouse and how to get it fixed (or if - ick - I should go back to an analog mouse).

Pop Pop - you mentioned that you were bedeviled by a mouse driver problem of your own. What happened and how did you solve it?

-Joe-

[pop pop]

Well ... :rolleyes:

What I did was reinstall Mandrake (FULL) a couple of times and had the same result until next to the last. For that one, I changed the mouse type and configuration during the install. I made a bad selection and it didn't work but on the next reinstall, I changed it back and all was well. Of course that was after I threww the Mandrake CDs like frisbees across the room :cool:

What I would reccommend is this: if you can TAB your way around while in Linux and get to the Mandrake Control Center, download the updates (bug fixes first). The mouse fix is in there. If you can't TAB around well enough to do that, I would reccomend that you go to another computer (Linux?), download those same updates (packages) and put them on floppy or CD. From there, you should be able to install those packages on your Mandrake box. Exactly what the steps are, hopefully Pave can tell us. I think it shouldn't be too difficult and may involve booting with the first CD of your origninal three and telling it to install the packages you downloaded.

Pave??

Sorry :( Such a small bug ... but it is such a pain.

[jlreich]

I tabbed around to get into configure, then choose a generic mouse driver, and it worked fine after that. Might be worth a try.

[pop pop]

Three options here. One will work, I'm sure.

[agent_js03]

Just this past weekend I made my system into a dual boot one with windows xp and redhat 9. It was very easy and very pleasant. One warning though: INSTALL WINDOWS FIRST!!!! Then install linux, so that windows doesn't screw with the linux/grub partitions.

[jlreich]

Of course that was after I threww the Mandrake CDs like frisbees across the room :cool:


I just noticed that pop pop. That's too funny. :D :p

[joea64]

Well, I'll try those. I did install Windows first, so the problems associated with the partitions shouldn't exist. I should mention that Mandrake Discovery installs KDE by default as the graphical environment (Gnome doesn't seem to be included). The only command I see in the bootloader that looks like it might go to a command-line environment, should I need such, is "failsafe". Somebody else told me that I should try booting to a command line and inputting the command "mousedrake" as root. Would that work?

-Joe-

[joea64]

Well, I tried option #1, installing the update packages. I installed both the regular and bugfix packages. Didn't work; the mouse still remained frozen in Linux. I do have some more data to offer on what seems to be going on, though.

Remember, this is an optical mouse, so a red light will be shining when the device is powered up. What happens is that the mouse powers up as normal when the system is turned on, and as long as I'm booting to Windows, everything is fine. When I boot to Linux, though, the mouse turns off partway through the system load and when KDE comes up the cursor is frozen. In fact, I have found that when this happens, I have to power down the system completely, then manually unplug and replug the mouse before restarting the computer to get the device working again; otherwise the mouse will be nonfunctional / turned off when I reboot to Windows.

Any ideas? Do I need to try a different brand of mouse? What brands of optical mice will work with Mandrake?

-Joe-

[Paleo Pete]

Check your BIOS settings. In one of the sections you have a setting to use PnP Operating System (I can't remember offhand which, Integrated Peripherals I think). Set that to NO. That lets BIOS configure hardware instead of the OS, Windows will work either way but Linux usually works better if you let BIOS assign IRQs and such (NO PnP Operating System). At the same time set the "Reset Configuration Data" option to Enabled, that should reassign resources then set itself back to Disabled. That should clear up any IRQ conflicts. If this is a PS2 mouse make sure PS2 mouse support is enabled, if it's USB make sure USB support is enabled. Legacy USB support is for DOS purposes, usually it works fine Disabled.

[Paul Komski]

I agree with Pete that the best PnP BIOS setting for your dual-boot is probably "No/Disabled". However if it is already set to No then try changing it to "Yes/Enabled".

Ref: http://64.244.235.81/docs/HOWTO/Plug-and-Play-HOWTO-4.html

Interoperability with Windows

If you are running both Linux and Windows on the same PC, how do you answer the BIOS's question: Do you have a PnP OS? In the 1990's Windows suggested a yes answer and since Linux wasn't much of a PnP OS your could say no for Linux. Having different answers for Windows and Linux means that you would have to set up the BIOS's CMOS menu manually each time you want to switch OSs. This is a lot of bother, so it's best to have the same answer to the question for both Linux and Windows.

In the 21st century, Windows 2000 and XP both suggest that you say no, it's not a PnP OS. But Linux has become more PnP-like so you may want to say yes. The situation is now sort of reversed from what it was. If you have no idea what to say, you might as well just say no (it's not a PnP OS). Then if you have problems you might change the no to a yes. Both Windows 2000/XP and Linux have become more tolerant about this and in many cases everything will work fine regardless of how you answer. But if you want the BIOS to configure for Linux (and Windows), you would say no.

[joea64]

As a matter of fact, I had previously had "PnP OS" set to yes, but changed it to no before I installed Mandrake because that was what the manual instructed me to do. I'll try resetting it to yes at the next reboot, though. I don't currently have any USB peripherals attached to the system though that will change soon once I swap the old system out for the new one (though I'll probably need a new scanner, but that's a different subject entirely). The mouse is PS/2-interface. I have another new optical mouse, a GE unit that I bought back in '03 but never have used, that I can try if the Inland mouse still refuses to work (it might be a matter of the specific hardware involved, after all). Actually, I'm a bit bemused by the whole thing; if I was expecting to have problems with hardware, I would have expected it to be with the DVD burner or TV card, not the mouse!

[pop pop]

I know this is a "give up" option, but you could download the Mandrake 10.2 beta 3, which does not have the mouse bug. :( I have that installed on my P4 along with W2K. That installation (10.2) went without a hitch.

Just a thought.

But if you are as stubborn as I am you won't give up. Maybe you should try flinging the Mandrake CDs across the room like I did. :D

[joea64]

It appears - tentatively - to have been a hardware problem after all. That is, the problem wasn't with the driver; it was with the mouse itself.

I went to a command line session using ctrl-alt-F1 upon booting Mandrake (after having reset PnP OS to "yes"), loaded drakconf, and tried reloading the generic mouse driver. That didn't work, so I powered down again.

I then went to get a different optical mouse. I'd bought a General Electric optical mouse (the kind with buttons on the sides as well as on top) back in late '03 but never gotten around to installing it. I unplugged the Inland mouse and plugged in the GE unit, then repowered the system, flipping the GE mouse over to watch the red light and see if it went out (indicating power down/driver not loading).

The red light stayed on. When Mandrake booted, the mouse cursor _moved_. I was able to do a brief session without any trouble (I was mostly interested in learning how to access my drive partitions in Linux and didn't go any further at that point), then rebooted to WinXP. I reset PnP OS to "no" at that point. The real proof in the pudding is going to be whether I can replicate the success next time I boot to Mandrake.

So - again - the problem was possibly the hardware itself.

-Joe-

[pop pop]

We're so conditioned to blaming the OS, arguably due to M$, that we sometimes forget that hardware can be the source of problems too.

[joea64]

It's been a few days, but since I powered down both my main systems to move the Sempron box out into my front room where it'll become my primary system (my old Athlon XP box is now sitting on the kitchen table), I was able to boot to Mandrake again and verify that the GE optical mouse continues to work properly. Thus, we can write this off as a hardware problem and put it in the "solved" file. Now I have to find software for Linux, aside from that included with the Discovery distribution (given that Discovery is the beginner version so the software selection is smaller). I signed on to Mandrakeclub but I'm having some trouble with the logons, and I think $132/US per year is too expensive for downloading open-source software even if it is all together in one place. What other good archives of Linux programs exist?

-Joe-