Booting OS CD from DOS...

[Alister]

Hi,
I want to replace my Win2000 with Win95 and I was advised (thanks again Pentachris) to do this by putting DOS onto my hard drive C after formatting it. I just wonder if I remove Windows, will DOS recognize my CD drive? Can I put DOS on partition D of my hard drive and do this from there? :confused:

[CuratoR]

After you've formatted your drive, you can boot from a windows98/95 boot floppy, choose boot with cd-rom support and then use your windows95 cd to install.

Or you can copy the windows 95 installation files on a folder in your D: drive. And than format your c: drive with the copy system files option. Reboot, change to the 95 installation folder on D: and then start the installation.

Well, if you plan to install DOS prior to installing windows 95 for some reason, you may have to setup/use mscdex to use your cdrom.

Its windows 95 & DOS, so I can't remember everything with 100% accuracy.

[Erik]

The easiest thing to do would be just use a Windows 95 boot floppy. You can just stick the floppy in, set BIOS to boot from that. It will give you everything you need to get Windows 95 installed without worrying about installing DOS. If you were to install DOS on the HD first, and then run the CD from there you would also need to install the CD-ROM drivers in DOS.

You can make a boot floppy from any system running Windows 95 or 98. I even think you can download one that will have everything you need.

[Dan Penny]

95 boot floppies generally don't have provisions for CDROM support. You can use a 98(SE) bootdisk to do any partitioning/formatting.

Just don't use the "sys c:" or the "format C: /s" commands to place 98 system files on the hard disk if 95 is going onto it.

http://www.cyberus.ca/~danpenny/WIN98SE.EXE

[pentachris]

This is the problem that arises when you post two threads on the same subject...

Original post is here (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=36370). He can't get the notebook to boot to the CD (because, I think, the Win 95 CD isn't bootable) and he can't use both the floppy drive and the optical drive at the same time; the notebook has to be powered down to change them out.

[Paul Komski]

Can I put DOS on partition D of my hard drive and do this from there?
You havent described your D drive but it largely depends on which version and make of DOS you are installing. Generally speaking MSDOS 6 needs to be installed onto an active primary partition formatted FAT16. That partition should be under 2gig in size and begin below the 8.4gig (1024 cylinder) barrier.

Using a Win98 boot floppy (because it comes with CD drivers) and running setup from the CD would seem to be the best method. You can get a Win95 boot diskette with CD drivers from bootdisk.com.

[Paul Komski]

Sorry Pentachris - had somehow missed the bit about not being able to use Floppy and CD simultaneously.

So what's needed is not a DOS installation per se but just any FAT partition that any boot floppy diskette will eventually be able to access. Copy the Win95 folder to that partition from the CDROM using Win2K.

Swap to floppy when you are ready and install from setup.exe in the Win95 folder you copied earlier to the FAT partition.

That gets the installation files onto the HDD for later but the other consideration before proceeding is when and how to deal with the Win2K installation. If it is to be removed I would suggest using a 3rdParty partition manager such as Ranish or BootIt-NT to format that partition as FAT (16 or 32 depending on which version of Win95), mark it as active and install Win95 into it from the installation files on the other partition.

Or mark the second partition with the installation files as active (as long as it starts below the 8.4 gig barrier) and install into that partition. Win95 will probably not like having more than one primary partition so it would also be a good idea to hide the Win2K partition when marking the second one as active. All in all, the best place for a Win95 partition would be at the very start of the drive.

If keeping both installations you should either use a boot manager (XOSL or BootIt-NG) or repair the Win2K installation/boot processes after Win95 is installed.

PS
Another approach altogether (if your CDROM can read CDR or CDRW) is to make your own bootable CD. Nero does this very well. You would need either a boot floppy or (if floppy and cd not useable simultaneously) an image file of a boot floppy from bootdisk.com to make the "floppy emulation" section and then drag the Win95 folder into the data section. Burn - Boot to the CD (which will activate its floppy section andwhich will get drive letter A) - Then install (just as if from a boot floppy) by accessing the Win95 folder at the CD's own drive letter, probably E.

[Sylvander]

Even if you follow Paul's good advice to install Win95 from installation files held on a partition other than C:, you will still need a CD-drive [Win95 compatible] driver installed for your CD-drive [if you want your CD-drive to function at some point].
Do you have a CD driver installation floppy?
Normally with Win95 you use that floppy to install the CD driver to the C: drive [after the C: partition has been partitioned & formatted].

If not, you could always install the driver by other means from within Windows [once it's up and running using the "install from HDD partition" method].

[classicsoftware]

At this point, it would be good to step back and say if the PC originally came with Windows 95, then the manufacturer should have provided a way to re-install the OS. Consulting their website would be an excellent place to start. If he has a windows start-up disk with fdisk and format and whatever other tools he needs to do the formatting partitioning in addtion, he will need the CD-ROM drivers and MSCDEXE program. then he should be able to:

1) Install floppy and boot system with boot floppy
2) FDISK and format the drive, remove floppy disk. not the entire drive
3) Boot to a C prompt with NO O/S
4) Edit config.sys and autoexec.bat to load CD-ROM drivers (required of course)
5) Shut down and install CD ROM.
6) Boot to the C:\> prompt and copy install files from the CD-ROM to the hard drive and install from there.

[Sylvander]

Recently I got some practise copying the Windows installation files to a partition and running setup from there, so I wrote down the DOS commands I used. I did it enough times that I'm certain these work.

In what follows:
g: was the partition to which I copied the files.
[Substitute your chosen partition.]
win98 was the name of the folder I made to put them in.
[Substitute your own suitable folder name.]
I: was the letter given to the CD-drive , which followed immediately after the letter allocated to the RAMdrive.
[B]I:\win98\*.* was the location on the CD of the Windows installation files.

Blip "Enter" after each of the following commands.

a:\>g:

g:>md_win98 [the underscore should be a space in all these commands]

g:>cd_win98

g:\win98>copy_I:\win98\*.* [do not use xcopy (not on a std startup disk), copy will do]

g:\win98>setup

Those worked every time. :)

[classicsoftware]

Sylvander:

Your process will not work on this system as he can have either a floppy or a CD installed, but not both

[Paul Komski]

3) Boot to a C prompt with NO O/S
4) Edit config.sys and autoexec.bat to load CD-ROM drivers (required of course)
Not sure I understand how this is done with NO O/S after fdisking and formatting - unless NO O/S means a minimalist DOS installation on the partition.

[classicsoftware]

When I say no OS I really mean no GUI interface in effect when you do that you are installing DOS, but since you are not installing the external DOS commands, just the commands internal, I don't really consider it an OS, though I guess technically it is.

[Sylvander]

Everything I've read says DOS is an OS. :)

Ehhhh, why can't he have both a floppy and a CD-drive?
Is it a laptop hardware limitation?

[classicsoftware]

The lap-top has only one drive bay. You can have either a CD or a floppy. This was common for laptops of that vintage.

As for DOS, as I said, technically if you FDISK and format a drive and msdos.sys and io.sys and command.com, it is an OS. In reality it's not. You can't do anything with it at that point. The rest of the OS with all of the external commands are not yet installed. You could use any of the internal commands like copy and delete. Commands like xcopy, emm386,himem.sys, format, sys,edit,attribute, would not be available so I don't really consider it a FULL OS. The orginal MS-DOS 6.X required 3 floppies to install the OS so you can't just boot up format and fdisk and have a fully working OS.

[Paul Komski]

To make the HDD partition bootable the three basic dos files io.sys, msdos.sys and command.com need to be transferred from the floppy using sys C: or format C:/s

These files in tandem with the creation of a new partition boot sector create a minimalist but bootable DOS installation on the HDD. Simply formatting the partition as FAT does not achieve this.

PS
MS-DOS StartUp
http://www.inetdaemon.com/tutorials/computers/software/os/windows/dos/bootstrap.html

[classicsoftware]

The whole idea of formattion would be to make it bootable and while it is technically an OS as you can boot to a C:\> prompt in reality is less than a full OS. We are in agreement about that. If you did a forat w/o the /s you would never be able to copy the Windows 95 files from the CD to the HDD and would be unable to install them which is the whole purpose of this exercise.....

[Paul Komski]

The point is that no mention of sys-ing the partition was made - and also, if memory serves, using the wrong version of command.com can make Win95 fail to boot after it is installed.

[classicsoftware]

If you use a Windows 95 start-up disk and then use Windows 95 CD files you should have no problems. In addition. formating the drive requires you use the format /s command or you will never be able to boot the drive.

While I did not give specific switch instructions in my list, there is NO OTHER WAY he will be able to accomplsih this unless the manufacturer of the laptop cas a restore CD or disk.

The /s is implict..........


This is a great geek discucssion, but it does not help the original poster solve his problem......

[Paleo Pete]

Since the win95 CD is not bootable and floppy would not be available for a win98 boot disk, this could be done using a win98 CD for startup. It's bootable, (win98SE anyway) then once you get to a command prompt, switch to the win95 CD and run setup. CD WIN95 should get you to the directory where the setup.exe file is. Then type SETUP. Format the drive beforehand using a boot floppy, no need to copy system files to make it bootable, the win95 installation should take care of that. I've installed win95 this way before, floppy was available but I wanted to see if it would actually work...it does...

[Paul Komski]

Good, sensible and easy to follow advice Pete. I'd thought of making a CDR boot CD and had forgotten that MS already has already done that with the Win98 CD, which being a CDROM should be recognised even by older CD drives.

[Dan Penny]

Not all 98(SE) CD's are bootable. Also, he's loading 95.

Download;

http://www.cyberus.ca/~danpenny/VIDE-CDD.SYS

and

http://www.cyberus.ca/~danpenny/mscdex.exe

Create config.sys;

notepad - one line;
DEVICE=VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:IDE-CD
(Save as config.sys)

Create autoexec.bat;

notepad - one line;
MSCDEX.EXE /D:IDE-CD /M:10
(Save as autoexec.bat)

Copy these above four files to a floppy.

Once your hard disk is setup (partitioned/formatted), boot with a 95b boot floppy. (http://www.bootdisk.com (http://www.bootdisk.com/)) When you get the A:\> prompt, type in;

sys c:

You should see "System transferred". Copy the above four files to the root directory on C:. (Switch floppies) and type in;

copy/v a:\*.* c:\

Power down and put in your cd drive. Boot the system and you should have your CDROM drive available in dos. Watch for the drive letter assigned to the drive at the end of the boot. Put your 98 cd in the drive and type;

x:\setup

where x is the drive letter assigned to the cdrom. The windows install should start. If you have problems post back.

[Paul Komski]

Maybe some are not bootable but personally, I've never come across a genuine MS Win98 CDROM (first or second edition) that wasn't bootable.

The comment's at http://www.netpathway.com/~kramer/reinstall.html would seem to concur.
BTW, the 98 full or upgrade CD from Microsoft is bootable. In other words, you can skip all this boot floppy stuff and boot straight from the CD if your system supports it. Most do. You may have to change the boot order in the BIOS to do that. Check with your manufacturer for details on how to change the boot order for your particular motherboard BIOS.

The one thing we don't know (if the poster hasn't totally lost faith by now) is what version of Win95 is involved.

[Vashinator]

Ummm...Why hasn't anyone pointed out that if you boot to a command line (ie DOS) prompt then you could install Win 95 that way? You don't need to get fancy and waste alot of time writing config files and that. Just boot to DOS format your drive (yes you can do this from DOS while still in DOS) and then just install Win95?

[classicsoftware]

Ummm...Why hasn't anyone pointed out that if you boot to a command line (ie DOS) prompt then you could install Win 95 that way? You don't need to get fancy and waste alot of time writing config files and that. Just boot to DOS format your drive (yes you can do this from DOS while still in DOS) and then just install Win95?

Vashinator, you are not paying attention. He needs to get to a DOS prompt in order to do this. Even if he were to get to a C:\> prompt with Windows 95, it does not have native CD-ROM support. He will be required to load the CD-ROM drivers from hos config.sys and autoexec.bat files in order to access the information.

Based on what the original poster asked, before the geek talk started, the answer I posted or the answer posted by Dan Penny would be his best choice. As for using a 98 Boot CD, if he had one, why would be bother installing Windows 95? He could install 98. If has a 98 boot CD and still wanted 95, he could follow the instructions provided by P.P.. In any event, there are three workable solutions for this guy (posts 9,20 &22) and we should wait to see which one he tries.....

[Paul Komski]

It's interesting that (regardless of Win98) the poster wants to go from W2K to W95. I've certainly gone full circle (he he - at least twice) but it still seems sensible to utilise a still functional W2K to copy the W95 installation files to the hard drive and have them ready there for a later installation.

[Dan Penny]

".... and we should wait to see which one he tries....."

I agree. Alister hasn't been back since the start. I wonder if he gave up.

"The one thing we don't know (if the poster hasn't totally lost faith by now) is what version of Win95 is involved."

If his version is a CD, it's either 95B or 95C. This is why I suggested the 95B bootdisk, it'll work with B or C.

[Vashinator]

It's interesting that (regardless of Win98) the poster wants to go from W2K to W95. I've certainly gone full circle (he he - at least twice) but it still seems sensible to utilise a still functional W2K to copy the W95 installation files to the hard drive and have them ready there for a later installation.

I just have to wonder why you would go from something that "CAN" be stable to something that really isn't? I have to wonder about the back tracking thing personally. I mean I will admit that I have several different computers with different OS's on them for different reasons. I've seen people beg for copies of Win2K, Win98SE and XP Pro but this is the first time I have seen someone wanting to back track.

[Dan Penny]

"I've never come across a genuine MS Win98 CDROM (first or second edition) that wasn't bootable."

My Microsoft 98SE CD isn't bootable. It's a silver and blue label. It's; "for PCs without Windows" Pt. # X04-14310

It came with a boot floppy. It's not the "standard" 98SE bootdisk. This one creates no ramdrive. Pt. # X04-16059

[Alister]

You all got me really confused, more than the begining! But I learned a few things.

Can't I just make a bootable CD from my DOS diskettes, boot to DOS on CD, switch the CD with win95 CD and run setup? Since I boot to CD, the CD drive must ramain recognisable or what?

[Paul Komski]

Can't I just make a bootable CD from my DOS diskettes
As long as your CD drive can read a home-made burned CDR/CDRW then that should work just fine. When making the bootable CD you could copy the Win95 folder at the same time to the same CD.

Exactly how you make the CD depends a bit on which software you are using but you could either use an appropriate boot floppy or an image file of the same to create the floppy emulation area of the CD.

[Alister]

Not all 98(SE) CD's are bootable. Also, he's loading 95.

Download;

http://www.cyberus.ca/~danpenny/VIDE-CDD.SYS

and

http://www.cyberus.ca/~danpenny/mscdex.exe

Create config.sys;

notepad - one line;
DEVICE=VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:IDE-CD
(Save as config.sys)

Create autoexec.bat;

notepad - one line;
MSCDEX.EXE /D:IDE-CD /M:10
(Save as autoexec.bat)

Copy these above four files to a floppy.

Once your hard disk is setup (partitioned/formatted), boot with a 95b boot floppy. (http://www.bootdisk.com (http://www.bootdisk.com/)) When you get the A:\> prompt, type in;

sys c:

You should see "System transferred". Copy the above four files to the root directory on C:. (Switch floppies) and type in;

copy/v a:\*.* c:\

Power down and put in your cd drive. Boot the system and you should have your CDROM drive available in dos. Watch for the drive letter assigned to the drive at the end of the boot. Put your 98 cd in the drive and type;

x:\setup

where x is the drive letter assigned to the cdrom. The windows install should start. If you have problems post back.

Hi Dan,
Sorry for the delay, I tried to have the problem fixed by an "expert", but here I am again!
I followed your instructions. At the end of the boot, I did not see any drive letter assigned to the CD drive. I get to C:/> now, but it does not recognize the CD drive (I used boot95b.exe and the four files mentioned above).
I tried all letters of the alphabet, none is the CD drive!
Waiting for your post. Thanks....

[Paul Komski]

Since you used the Win95b floppy image from bootdisk.com you are presumably running Windows 95B.

Copy the following files from the floppy to the now bootable C: drive and reboot. You should then have a CD drive at letter R. If the cd driver cd1.sys doesnt work try cd2.sys, cd3.sys and cd4.sys (each time editing config.sys appropriately to reflect the changed driver).

autoexec.bat
config.sys
himem.sys
cd1.sys
mscdex.exe

[Wolfey]

He could of course install 95 via the mmmm I think it was 25 floppys, if he could still find any of course.
Just a thought.
Feel free to think me totally mad. :D

[classicsoftware]

I actually have the Windows 95 floppies somewhere in my office.....

[Alister]

Since you used the Win95b floppy image from bootdisk.com you are presumably running Windows 95B.

Copy the following files from the floppy to the now bootable C: drive and reboot. You should then have a CD drive at letter R. If the cd driver cd1.sys doesnt work try cd2.sys, cd3.sys and cd4.sys (each time editing config.sys appropriately to reflect the changed driver).

autoexec.bat
config.sys
himem.sys
cd1.sys
mscdex.exe

Hi Paul,
Can you give me a hint on how the autoexec.bat and config.sys files should look like? I have edited them as Dan suggested. I should probably replace VIDE-CDD with cd1. In the original files of the boot floppy I have /D:banana, while I use D/:IDE-CD.

[Paul Komski]

The autoexec.bat and config.sys files that are on the Win95b floppy from bootdisk.com shouldn't need any editing.
Config.sys reads:
DEVICE=HIMEM.SYS /testmem:off
FILES=30
BUFFERS=20

DEVICE=cd1.SYS /D:banana

rem DEVICE=cd1.SYS /D:banana /P:1f0,14
rem DEVICE=cd1.SYS /D:banana /P:170,15
rem DEVICE=cd1.SYS /D:banana /P:170,10
rem DEVICE=cd1.SYS /D:banana /P:1e8,12
rem DEVICE=cd1.SYS /D:banana /P:1e8,11
rem DEVICE=cd1.SYS /D:banana /P:168,10
rem DEVICE=cd1.SYS /D:banana /P:168,9

LASTDRIVE=Z


Autoexec.bat reads:
@echo off

MSCDEX.EXE /D:banana /L:R

Himem.sys in a memory manager
cd1.sys is one of four available CD drivers on that floppy
mscdex.exe (http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=87165) is a CD-ROM "redirector." Its /D switch identifies the driver and the name can be just about anything but must match the name loading the actual driver in the config.sys file. The /L switch denotes the drive letter to be assigned.
Lines starting rem are not executed
@ at the start of line prevents that line from being displayed on the screen
echo off turns off further command lines from being displayed on the screen (unless that is they are preceded by echo)

In summary config.sys loads a driver into memory and does a couple of other little "jobs" and then autoexec.bat locates the CDROM and gives it a drive letter.

If all goes according to plan of course ;) and the driver is appropriate for your hardware.

[Alister]

Hello Paul,
I tried all the above and still does not work! Probably the diver is not the right one!?
I must mention that I performed the sys c: command from the boot95b disk on which the contents of the autoexec.bat and config.sys were different from those I edited and copied over later. Could that be the problem?
I tried to search for the driver, but little luck. Could not find anything on the web site of Dell. I also tried driversHQ.com, but there I have to pay a membership before I can use it!!
Any ideas where else I can find it ? The hardware is:
CD-ROM module for Dell latitude CP

Thanks...

Hi guys,
I just found the driver here (http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&releaseid=R19290&formatcnt=1&fileid=19084).

It works now. I just started setting up the Windows