External USB2.0->IDE HDD: Problem bringing into use

[Sylvander]

Running Win98 1st edition.
Enclosure = ViPowER VP-9054V
See http://www.vipower.com/images/catalog/choose_smart_family_2.jpg
USB2.0 cable = VP-9208 [AT2 version]
See http://www.vipower.com/images/catalog/SmartCABLE(E)_2.jpg
Driver = http://www.vipower.com/driver/VP-9208AT2.zip
8GB HDD = http://www.fel.fujitsu.com/home/v3__product.asp?inf=dsc&pid=195

1. Because the HDD had an NTFS active primary partition on it I 1st used fdisk to make a non-active DOS primary partition. Wasn't aware of FAT 32 being set. It did ask about large disk support and I chose that. Drive jumpered as master.

2. Fitted the HDD inside the enclosure.

3. Power switch at off position. Connected the power unit [power on at mains] and the USB cable to the unit and the USB [1.1?] port.

4. Windows running | switched on the unit | hardware detected | "building driver database" | wizard asks for driver | set "find suitable driver" | navigate to folder holding the driver files | suitable driver found and installed.

5. Device manager was showing all was well and working normally as follows:
ViPowER USB2.0 SmartCable AT2(TPP)
__Storage Adapter Bridge Module (TPP)
____Fujitsu MPE3084AE

6. Windows Explorer displayed presence of external drive. Drive letter "I:" following the CD-drive = H: and drive properties were correctly displayed; correct size and empty.

7. Tried to copy a file to I: and got warning that source [or was it destination] drive could not be read.
Source was the G: partition, with which there is no problem.

8. Shut down and restarted | Windows found new USB hardware and installed driver for it | once back into Windows Device Manager showed a red "X" against an "Unknown Device" underneath the following:
[B]SIS 7001 PCI to USB Open Host Controller
__USB Root Hub
[These were replacing the previous good settings.]

9. Sent an email to ViPowER Support as follows:
[a & b were sent after trying 1st on my older MJN PC. The above was done on the newer HP Brio after reply b.]
a. SENT
"I'm running Windows98 1st Edition and only have the older USB [1.1 I think].
The shop told me this hardware would be backward compatible, so would work with the older USB 1.1 card.
The VP-9208 hardware has been detected, but the wizard cannot find a suitable driver [and neither can I] on the supplied CD [Ver 2.1].
Is that because there is only a Win98SE driver on the CD?
Do you have a Win98 driver?
If so, how do I get it?

I notice you make VP-9008 for USB 1.1, but the shop either didn't have it or wanted to keep me as up-to-date as possible by selling me the VP9208 [seems like a good idea provided I can make it work].

Here's hoping you can help me make your product work."

b. REPLY
"USB interface in WIN98, u must install driver, The smartcable of USB have four version. u can find the small spherical logo. maybe AT2,G,C,SMSC u can visit our website to download VP-9208 and choose correct driver. try it...

http://www.vipower.com/driver/VP-9208AT2.zip VP-9208(AT2) http://www.vipower.com/driver/Gensys_win9x.zip VP-9208(Gensys) http://www.vipower.com/driver/ISD_win9x.zip VP-9208(C) http://www.vipower.com/driver/vp_9208SMSC_win9x.zip VP-9208(SMSC)"

c. SENT
"I'm having problems.

The hardware was detected by Win98 1st edition;

I pointed the wizard at "H:\Drivers\VP-9208\VP-9208AT2\WIN98" where the drivers are held; the wizard reported the correct drivers found and installed.

Everything looked good; Device Manager showed the hardware functioning correctly; the drive was displayed in Windows Explorer.

But when I tried to copy a file to the drive [which had been partitioned immediately before connection using fdisk.exe (primary DOS partition = 8GB) & formatted using "format.com"] the destination drive could not be read.

Now the hardware is reported as "Unknown Device", sometimes with red "X", sometimes with yellow "!".

DO YOU HAVE WIN98 1ST EDITION DRIVERS for this hardware?
Is the lack of these the cause of the problem?"

d. REPLY
"Sorry, maybe I was not explaining clear, our win98 was mean win98se.
USB could using in win98se, but it couldn’t support DOS model.
Maybe some command must be in DOS model but USB couldn’t support it.

Please take off HDD from enclosure and install to IDE to partition and format. Install to enclosure if all already."

I'm having difficulty understanding the idea he's trying to convey. Is he saying the driver/hardware won't work in Win98 1st edition do you think?
Anyone have any ideas? :confused:
Hope you can cope with the long post.

[Steve]

Hi Sylvander,

Windows 98 standard edition was the first M$ OS to offer full USB support. But like anything "new" that M$ puts out, the first release is usually what most folks would consider a beta. Thus the USB support in W98 first edition can be pretty shakey at times.

That being said, #8 on your list seems to indicate that the USB root hub has become disabled (red X). First thing would be to remove all USB entries (in device manager) in safe mode and reboot, letting windows find your usb controller card and get that back into service.

The folks on the other end of your e-mails certainly seem to have a little trouble with English. It seems that they're saying it wont work with 98 standard but who knows. You might try installing the encloser without a HDD in it. Just to see it it installs successfully that way.

Just some ideas to start... :)

[saphalline]

I agree. There's so many things that work in 98SE that just don't work in regular 98. And USB support is the big one. USB is supposed to be hot-swappable and auto-detected. Sadly, 98 doesn't want to do these things reliably.

Number 8 on your list there seems to indicate that something went horribly wrong. Not only does your external enclosure seem to not be meshing well with your system, but it took out your USB root hub, too! :eek: Not good! Now you may have to reinstall the drivers for your USB root hub (either an expansion card or the chipset device, or possibly both).

Another thing you might want to reconsider is the use of this external USB device on a v1.1 connection. Max speed for USB 1.1 is a pathetic 1.5MB/s! Filling an 8GB hard drive at the max speed (which you won't get all the time) would take you over an hour and a half! Maybe you were just planning on letting it run while you do something else, I don't know, but I just thought I'd mention that.

[CuratoR]

d. REPLY
"Sorry, maybe I was not explaining clear, our win98 was mean win98se.
USB could using in win98se, but it couldn’t support DOS model.
Maybe some command must be in DOS model but USB couldn’t support it.
What I think the guy is trying to say is,

"Sorry for not being clear earlier. When I said Win98 I meant "Win98 second edition". USB could be used in "Win98 first edition" but becuz of the DOS model "Win98 first edition" used USB couldn't be supported properly. There might be some commands to use USB succesfully under "Win98 first edition" but they're not complete and don't seem to work properly atleast for us. So, to conclude our hardware and its device driver doesn't work properly under "Win98 first edition". But they work under Win98 second edition."

http://www.pcguide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif I hope my version in not bad than the original one.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

Even in 98SE setting up USB in any flavor is a lesson in frustration the first time through at least. I know I had a time with it also but I think I got it :p this time.

If you don't do your normal route of back-ups, make sure the programs involving the USB are uninstalled B-4 removing usb controllers in Device Manager. All in Safe Mode may help too.

It's better to fresh install and make sure Device Manager is all-set prior, than to install any program that needs usb and then the error popups begin.. AYYEE,,, :rolleyes:

[Sylvander]

Superb replies guys. :)

STEVE
"#8 on your list seems to indicate that the USB root hub has become disabled (red X)."
I'm inclined to think they are ok, but am I wrong?
Before the driver was ever installed, and afterward when the drive isn't switched on I see:
SIS 7001 PCI to USB Open Host Controller
__USB Root Hub
No red "X" or yellow "!" against either of these.
Only when the drive is switched on does the "Unknown Device" appear with a red "X" against it, and then if I hit the "Enable" button in its properties the red "X" is replaced by a yellow "!".

"First thing would be to remove all USB entries (in device manager) in safe mode and reboot"
I did that this morning. When I rebooted Windows, the USB hardware
SIS 7001 PCI to USB Open Host Controller
__USB Root Hub
was found and drivers automatically reinstalled.
When I switched on the drive housing
ViPowER USB2.0 SmartCable AT2(TPP)
__Storage Adapter Bridge Module (TPP)
____Fujitsu MPE3084AE
was found beneath and the drive once again appeared in Windows Explorer. So everything once again looked ok.
Then I made the mistake yet again of switching off the drive without first doing "Safe Removal" in the "System Tray".
Back to square 1. When I rebooted an "unknown Device" was found and shown disabled in Device Manager.

SAPHALINE
"Another thing you might want to reconsider is the use of this external USB device on a v1.1 connection."
Your right, I think I'l buy a PCI->USB2 card very soon.
When I bought the enclosure I had in mind that if USB1.1 was slow [likely], I'd buy USB2.

CuratoR
I think your wording is spot-on. I only wish he had said it that well.
ErnieK sent the following email to them [he has identical hardware]:
"Subject: compatabillty

I am having problems with installing and working with your drive enclosure

Could you please let me know if your drivers are compatible with the
original version of Windows 98

NOT WIN 98se but the original release of Windows 98"

He got the following reply:
"Hi Ernie
Sorry, it only suit win98se.
Win98 couldn't support USB enclosure.
Thanks"

So I intend to move up to Win98SE. :D

[ErnieK]

And lo we moved out of the dark ages and into the light of civilisation and we found that human kind had invented the wheel. Though verily, it was of this that our problems multiplied as did the fishes and the loaves :p :rolleyes:

[Sylvander]

Bit of an update guys:

On my trusty older MJN I:
1. Wrote zeros to the drive.
2.Partitioned and formatted using Samsungs' version of "Ontrack Disk Manager".
3. Copied the install files for Win98SE to the E: partition and ran "setup.exe" from there. Windows is looking good, very minimalist at the moment.
4. Switched on the external drive enclosure. New "Unknown" USB device detected and shown disabled [code 22] in Device Manager.
5. Tried to update device driver. Navigated to the folder holding them. Wizard reported the best drivers were already installed.
6. "Removed" unkown USB device & [without reboot] "forced" install of driver by right-clicking on the 5 ".inf" files and choosing "Install".
7. On reboot new "Unknown" device found as before.
8. "Device either not present, not working properly, or does not have all the drivers installed [code 10].

This PC has a working PCI to USB 1.1 card installed.
I partitioned & formatted the 8GB HDD on the HP Brio [no drive overlay required with the Brio BIOS up to 64 GB, but required on this MJN above 2GB?] before fitting in the case. Is the drive overlay significant? I wouldn't have thought so if not booting from this non-active primary partition.

I'm using the correct drivers and a suitable OS, so what's amiss? :confused:

Had trouble with accessing the CD-ROM disk.
If I run Windows and put the disk in and close the drawer [and hold shift to prevent autorun, or not, makes no difference], then the CD-drive spins at high speed and the HDD light is on constantly and sometimes Explorer stops responding. Never had that before! I had to copy the files to a floppy on the Brio and access them that way.
It stops when I eject the CD!

[Sylvander]

I got an email from Stanley of VipowER.
He has read this thread.
Did the following on the HP Brio running Win98SE:
Instructed me how to use "Add/Remove Programs" to remove the VipowER software and regedit to go to "HKLM\Enum\USB", leave the "Roothub" key alone and delete any of the form "VIDxxxxxx".
The one that I found had "Device Desc = Digital Camera". Exported a copy of that key then deleted it. That's my digital camera settings. I'll restore them again afterward. Checked the keys after the procedures that follow and found the only key other than "Root Hub" is a key with "Device Desc = Unknown Device".

1. Switched on enclosure [as Stanley instructed].
2. Restarted PC.
3. "Building Driver Database" displayed.
4. Found "Unknown Device" [drivers probably fetched from Windows installation files [they were run from here to install Windows] on the E: partition.
5. "Unknown Device" beneath "USB Root Hub" in Device Manager.
6. "Update Driver".
7. "Search for a better..." in A: floppy [copied files off the CD].
8. "Best driver...already installed".
9. "Back".
10. "Display a list..."
11. "Have Disk..." A: OK.
12. "Show all hardware...", but nothing listed.

It's like the drivers supplied on the CD didn't fit the hardware detected. :confused:

Stanley said:

"Good day,

Now, I am clearer after read the long story.

Very appreciate CuratoR translate for me, I am not good at English and his explain was almost as same as I would like to express, even has some different, but it doesn’t matter.

I have some suggested for you, please try it.

1. Please refer attach file to remove USB driver.

2. If passable, please test enclosure with another PC that system was 2K or XP, I want to sure that if enclosure was breakdown.

3. before you turn on PC, please connect the enclosure and turn it no first.

Please keep information.

Thanks!"

[Sylvander]

Problem solved, hardware now working. :D

It turned out the USB 2.0 cable [VP-9208 (AT2)] was faulty.
Took it back to the shop, they tested it, found it faulty, replaced with a good one, tested the whole assembly, showed me it working.
When I took it home and connected it up, switched on, booted the PC:
The new hardware was found and correctly named, the driver was asked for, pointed the wizard at the drivers on a floppy, install went routinely.
The new drive showed in Windows Explorer and all the USB devices showed correctly and working normally in device manager.
Copied a file to the drive, then erased it, worked ok.
Properties show the full capacity of the 8GB HDD and empty. :cool: