Cooling Problems with AMD Athlon XP 2900+ (Barton Core)

[FJM005]

I just purchased (and assembled) a new motherboard and Processor. It is an Athlon XP 2900+. My motherboard has an option on it, where you can set a "CPU Warning level." Mine is set to 60 degrees C. If it goes above that, it will start beeping. I can do normal tasks, (Playing music, email, cd burning) But if I try to play a game, after about 5 minutes........the sound goes off! I didn't apply anything on the bottom of my heatsink. Is that the problem? There is a square of somthing on the bottom of it, can I apply a compound over this? Can you guys give me some suggestions as to what I can do to cool down my CPU about 10 degrees or more?

[risk_reversal]

The 'square of something on the bottom of the heatsink' pinky in colour is a cooling pad. These are not usually any good. Generally heatsinks that come with that stuff on them are not to be used on highend systems.

Get rid of that stuff by removing as much as you can with an impliment that will not scratch the base of the heatsink and then clean it thouroughly with Isopropyl alcohol. Then get some heatsink compound (several to choose from), I usually use Artic Silver 'ceramique' as it is non conductive and apply a thin layer over the cpu core. Then put the heatsink back on top.

For better cooling you should really buy a heatsink that is all copper with at least an 80mm fan. A high quality heatsink will not have any paste whatsoever on the base.

Good Luck

[FJM005]

Thanks for the reply. I wasn't sure whether or not to take off the cooling pad or not. So if I buy some kind of compound, I apply it to the top of the chip and not the heatsink? didn't know that. Do you think this will solve my prolblem of being to hot when I play games? I need it to cool me down at least 10 degrees.....

[pentachris]

The square of something you're referring to is the thermal transfer pad. It has a thin protective cover (something like plastic wrap if I remember correctly) that should be removed before installation. Even if you did that, you might still be hitting 60 C if you are using it in a room with unusually high ambient room temperature and/or you have inadequate airflow through your case. Anything above 50 C is too high for my taste, though. You'll get better cooling with a thermal compund like Arctic Silver, but you shouldn't apply it over the transfer pad, you should remove the pad thoroughly, clean both surfaces well (the die and the heatsink) and apply the compund to the die of the CPU.

wow, I'm really late on this one - got sidetracked while I was posting

[FJM005]

Let me get this straight.........the "kinda sticky" square needs to be removed? Then I clean it and the CPU thoroughly and apply the compound to the CPU core?

[saphalline]

The 'square of something on the bottom of the heatsink' pinky in colour is a cooling pad. These are not usually any good.Actually, they are good. FJM005 got a retail version CPU, so the HSF unit that came with it is AMD's stock cooler. This is more than enough cooling for non-overclocked systems. While I agree with your advice to get better CPU cooling in general, the CPU temps in question here are due to something else. The case needs better airflow, or the room temp is too high, or the plastic film over the thermal pad hasn't been removed, etc.

[FJM005]

The "square thing" is under the heatsink. It is grayish in color. Kinda sticky when hot. Should I scrape it off when I use the compound? or not?








sorry guys, I'm confused..........bare with me

[risk_reversal]

Scrape off as much as you can with a non abrasive implement. Do not scratch the base of the heatsink. Then clean the rest off with some cleaner typically Isopropyl alcohol. Make sure the base of the heatsink is clean and free of any remnants of the previous thermal pad.

Then clean the cpu die with Isopropyl alcohol. Let everything dry. I usually leave for 20-30 mins. Then apply some thermal compound to the die of the cpu (the centre bit). Just a thin layer, don't put too much.

Then reafix the HSF.

As pentachris has noted, high cpu temp can be the result of many aspects of your pc, poor case airflow being one of them. Another being the quality of the heatsink itself ie is it copper or aluminium. The fan atop of the heatsink yet another aspect.

I use a Thermaltake silent boost (all copper) but changed the fan from the stock one which spun at 2600rpm to a SmartFanII variable speed.

Below 50C idle is ok, you should aim at 40C idle and max 50C load (depending on seasonal variations/ambient room temps) which is what I run. I suppose I could get it lower but I am satisfied with these results.

Hope this helps

Good Luck

[Fruss Tray Ted]

We were already addressing your cooling issue in your other thread here (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=37247) but you decided to abandon it and start another one :rolleyes:

If you go to the link in my post in the other thread, you will see a good explanation on how to properly lap a heatsink and then apply the thermal compound onto the core.

My retail heatsink desperately needed lapping as the surface of it was all scratched and bumpy where I could get my fingernail between the grooves. Lapping it is a good idea when you are not using a pad because a pad is similar to a sponge or foam that holds onto the compound. When there is no pad, it is more important to have the 2 surfaces meet better to help prevent the compound from oozing out.

When I swapped out mobos, I removed the pad so I needed to lap it prior to reassembly.

[pentachris]

Once the heatsink has been installed and the computer has been used, it should be cleaned and new compound should be added if you remove the heatsink.

Looking here (http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions_small.htm), you may need to discard your heatsink now that you've used it with the thermal transfer pad and removed it.

Thermal pads are made with paraffin wax that melts once it gets hot. When it melts, it will fill in the microscopic valleys in the heatsink with wax. To minimize the permanent contamination of the mounting surface with wax, the thermal pad should be removed before it is used and melted. Never use heat or hot water to remove the pad, the heat will melt the wax into the heatsink.

But that still doesn't answer why it was getting that hot in the first place. Did you remove the protective plastic cover from the pad? How many case fans do you have, where are they and which way are they oriented? How many hard drives do you have in the case? Did you make an effort to keep the cables tidy so that air can move through the case? What's the temperature in the room where the computer is kept? Is the computer in a confined space with no airflow (like a completely enclosed cabinet)?

[risk_reversal]

FJM005, I think that pentachris comments above cover the overall perspective which one (anyone) should apply when dealing with high cpu temps.

If I were you, I would take on all his remarks and proceed as advised.

Cheers

[FJM005]

My room temp is normal (70 degrees F) I have 2 fans on the power supply. 1 fan on the heatsink. I only have one HD running. That's all. I moved the cables around to make sure I was getting good airflow. It IS enclosed in a cabinet though. but it has enough room. (At least my old computer did.) I don't think the cabinet would explain why it is getting above 63 C from playing a simple game though. Thanks for all of your help guys. I will buy some Arcitc silver and I'll try that. If you have any other comments or suggestions, please post them.

[i an not a nerd]

If the computer is in a cabinet, its not the lack of airflow, its the lack of fresh cool air getting to the computer. The computer is just getting the same warm air that it rejected.

[pentachris]

No case fans?

In addition to the power supply fan, it's best to have at least one fan on the back of the tower near the top (under the power supply) blowing out and a fan on the front near the bottom blowing in.

You didn't say if you removed the protective plastic cover from the transfer pad before putting the heatsink on your cpu.

Also, something that needs to be said that I don't think has been said yet - using Arctic Silver (or almost any other thermal paste) will void the warranty on your AMD processor. Not that it's a bad product, it's just that care needs to be taken when you use it. You want to have enough to fill in the tiny cracks and crevices, but not too much so that it oozes over and shorts something out. Follow the directions carefully.

[FJM005]

There's two fans in the power supply. One blowing inside the computer, and one blowing out of it. (The one blowing out is the one on the back of the case, on the top) Yes, I also checked about the plastic cover. I removed it.

I just don't understand. The cabitnet isn't closed. It is open on the back. Maybe it doesn't work as well because this computer is more powerfull.........

Will the Arctic Silver compound lower my temps substantially? Enough to get them back to normal?

[saphalline]

Yes, there's two fans on most modern PSU's. This is no big deal. Not having any other case fans... that's a big deal!! I agree that your old computer did just fine, but what you have to realize is that today's computers generate 2-3 times more heat than just 4 years ago! The cooling that worked on a PII won't keep a P4 from overheating. You need at least one more case fan, preferably two like pentachris described.

In addition, that cabinet thing is just NOT A GOOD IDEA!! I would never put a modern system in a cabinet! That's just asking for trouble! Cabinets make things overheat, even if the back is open. Any enclosure around the case whatsoever will further hinder airflow. Like i an not a nerd said, good airflow inside the case is always useful, but good airflow outside the case is also necessary. Without one, the other is pretty useless.

A final note on the Arctic Silver - yes it will improve the efficiency of the heatsink to remove heat from the CPU, but it will not miraculously fix your problem! It's not just your CPU that's overheating, it's your whole darn system! It doesn't have enough case fans, and it doesn't have enough airflow outside the case. Once you fix those two problems, your CPU temp should come way down!

[FJM005]

Thank you all. Can I have some suggestions as to what casefans I should buy? Also........How do I hook them up? Where do I plug them in on my mobo? Here is a picture of my mobo......

http://club.aopen.com.tw/pss/largeview.asp?nothing=nothing&img=/Products/images/MB/products/ak77-600n.swf&modelname=AK77-600N

[pentachris]

In the bottom left corner find the headers for your front panel connectors (power switch, HD LED, etc). Follow the bottom edge of the board just a bit to the right, you'll see a three pin header that looks like a case fan header. It's hard to tell for sure without being able to read the tiny writing on the motherboard. I tried to download the manual, but the link didn't work.

They also make case fans that hook up to a 4 pin molex on your power supply, and they usually have a connector so that you can use it and plug something else up to it as well.

Look for ball bearings, not sleeve bearings. Among other companies, Antec makes good ones.

[FJM005]

When I buy a fan, how do I attach it to the inside of my tower?

[saphalline]

If your case doesn't have pre-made fan holders, it will at least have fan spots with holes in the corners. When you buy a retail case fan, it will come with the 4 screws necessary to screw it to the case. OEM fans don't always have these screws, however, so check the fan spots in your case before you buy.

[FJM005]

thanks Saphalline, that helps

[alex666]

I've been following this and the related thread for a bit. This is a great forum for help, as provided by a number of folks here. But it really helps to supplement the info here by your own research. There are a variety of web sites that explain case cooling, installing fans, applying arctic silver (their own web site is superb) and related topics. These can be discovered and accessed easily via google. So before doing anything to your system, I would strongly suggest reading as much as you possibly can about these issues to establish a base of information. That way you won't be caught short when you run into something unexpected and saph or some of the others here are not available. Also, you can find forums for specific brands of motherboards and find out what others are using to cool their systems. Finally, it sounds like you've already been given a number of great suggestions. IMHO, I would follow those first before trying to remove your heat sink and applying arctic silver. That can be a daunting task for even the most experienced modders. Good luck.

marty