My New Build - First Problem

[pentachris]

This past weekend I got in my components for my new build. I was assembling everything last night and noticed that there's nowhere to attach a case speaker on the mainboard. It's an ECS KN1 Extreme (http://www.ecsusa.com/products/kn1_spec.html). If you want to check behind me and make sure I didn't miss something, all your motherboard manual are belong here (http://64.124.27.138/ecs/manual/mb/eng/k8/KN1.pdf).

Is it normal for "modern" computers not to have a case speaker? The last build I did wasn't that long ago - a Socket A nForce 2 build for my parents...

Stay posted for more problems as I install Windows XP for only the second time and set up a SATA hard drive for the first time... :eek:

[pop pop]

Well...floppy drives are now passe but at least the mobos still support the for old geeks like me who still use them for diags and such. A case speaker really only fits that requirement these days.

I'll definitely be interested in hearing how your SATA setup goes.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

I think I see a speaker mounted directly on the mobo right near where the chipset fan's cable plugs in here (http://www.firingsquad.com/media/hirez.asp?file=/hardware/ecs_kn1_extreme/images/08.jpg) just under the ide connectors and beside 2 capacitors. It's the object with the hole in it.

This pic is from the review here (http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ecs_kn1_extreme/) and a ton of hi-rez pics here (http://www.firingsquad.com/media/article_images.asp?fs_article_id=1612).

I would try to boot barebones with no RAM installed to see if it is indeed a case speaker onboard. If it is, you'll definitely hear some 'hissy fit' with no RAM ;)

[pentachris]

The black thing under the red and yellow wires in the attached pic? Maybe so; good eyes FTT.

I scoured the motherboard looking for an onboard speaker last night, but I was looking for a little paper cone, not something like that. I was also working on my fifth beer when I got to that point. Speaking of which, maybe I should recheck all my connections before I plug it in and fire her up tonight... :eek:

pop pop:

Yeah, I still keep a floppy drive installed also. They come in handy from time to time, and it's easier just to go ahead and put it in to begin with than it is to stop, turn off the computer and install one later.

I've only got one SATA drive, so I won't have to worry about RAID drivers. Lord willin' an' the creek don't rise, I shouldn't have any problem. :D

[pentachris]

OK, I've been looking around on the internet, and from what I'm reading I'm going to have to install S-ATA drivers during the XP installation process. Correct? Or maybe a XP SP2 install disk will have the drivers included?

Most of the resources online talk about hitting F6 to install the drivers and having them ready on a floppy disk. My mainboard didn't come with a floppy; I'm left to dig through the CD and find what will hopefully be the correct folder. I'll have two optical drives hooked up when I install; can I just use the CD and point the install wizard there instead of using a floppy?

[pentachris]

This is looking like it's going to be fun. :rolleyes:

The CD has directories for SiS SATA drivers and Via SATA drivers. I don't have a Via RAID controller, and I'm not planning on using the SATA ports on the SiS chip; the SATA port I'll be using is one that is controlled by the nForce 4 Ultra chipset.

I've got a feeling I have a fundamental misunderstanding of what I'm going to be doing. :confused:

[pentachris]

Well, a little more looking around on the net indicates that if I use the nForce SATA ports, I shouldn't need to load drivers. We'll give it a try tonight and see...

[Fruss Tray Ted]

I've got a feeling I have a fundamental misunderstanding of what I'm going to be doing.

Your preaching the story of my life :rolleyes: :D

Probably a better idea on the speaker query would be to call or email the manufacturer. If this board is new, there should be no charge for tech support, yet..


Fifthth beeer aye? yuhh gott allotta catchinup tuhdo tuh reech meee...

[pentachris]

Well, I'm going to call it a success. I did here some beeps from the case, so I'm sure that gizmo FTT spotted is the speaker.

No manual driver installation was necessary to install on the SATA hard drive coming off of the nForce controller. Easy breezy Japanesy. :)

I am a little concerned with my CPU temp, though - BIOS reports it at 48 C idle. My system temp was close to the same until I put the side panel on and the fans were better able to move air through the case -it's now at a manageable 36 C, although the CPU temp remains the same. I'll install some software to monitor the temp and put it through a workout within the next few days. If it gets above 55, I'll have to take action. I'm really surprised at how high the temp is with AS 5 and a Zalman HSF...

[alex666]

If you heard beeps, you've got a speaker on your mobo.

Interesting, on my alby kt-600, there was no speaker attached to the mobo but there was a header for the speaker. However, when I put the mobo into a new case, there was no case speaker. It was an Antec Super Lanboy. I called Antec, and they sent me a small speaker that looked very much like the one in that picture posted earlier. It just sits right on the mobo, maybe an inch in height, looks a lot like the transistors you would see in radios 30 - 40 years ago.

marty

[Paleo Pete]

Yep, the gizmo in the picture pentachris posted is the speaker. Little round black thing a bit smaller than a dime, directly under the red and yellow wires. They've been used for 2 or 3 years on a lot of boards, and I have one on a short set of wires with the "old" style connector so it can be used in place of the usual small speaker you were originally looking for.

[saphalline]

No manual driver installation was necessary to install on the SATA hard drive coming off of the nForce controller.Yep, I could have told you that! You only need to press F6 per the instructions: "Press F6 now to install third party RAID drivers". It's not third party if it's built into the chipset!

CPU temp is a bit odd, but which Athlon64 are you using? Newcastle, Winchester, Venice? 4000+, 3500+, 3000+? Also keep in mind that any type of thermal transfer material (be it a pad or grease) will need some time to reach full effectiveness. AS 5 requires a few days of constant use to fill all the grooves. Thermal pads require a week or two. Other greases vary.

[alex666]

You only need to press F6 per the instructions: "Press F6 now to install third party RAID drivers". It's not third party if it's built into the chipset!

Then why do manufacturers llike albatron who build mobos using via chipsets (like my kt-600) provide sata/raid drivers for the via 8237 southbridge chip to which one attaches the sata drive? As I type, I'm literally looking at page 47 of the alby kt600 manual where it explains what to do when installing XP/2000 to a sata drive, specifying how one must copy the sata drivers to a floppy, press F6 during XP/2000 installation, and so forth.

[pentachris]

Yep, I could have told you that!
Well where were you three days ago, man?!?!? :eek: :rolleyes: :D

It's an Athlon 64 3000+ Venice core on an ECS KN1 Extreme with a Zalman CNPS7000B-ALCU and some AS5 squirted in between.

Does anyone have any experience lapping one of those things? I've never lapped a heatsink, and was a bit intimidated at the thought of starting with that one (the two different metals, the somewhat delicate fins...). Should I just give it a little while or pull it off and redo it now? I'm going to be doing a DVD project this weekend (Mpeg-2 encoding); I'm concerned about being close to 50 C now and starting this project since my processor has a max temp of 65 C...

[saphalline]

Then why do manufacturers llike albatron who build mobos using via chipsets (like my kt-600) provide sata/raid drivers for the via 8237 southbridge chip to which one attaches the sata drive?That one is not part of the chipset itself. Even though the SATA ports are routed through the Southbridge, the SATA capability is not built into the Southbridge. It was just sort of tacked on as an afterthought.

These Venice core revisions seem to be causing people problems in the heat area. What's the Vcore set to? Also, you should give the AS 5 some time to reach full effectiveness. A few days should do it.

[pentachris]

Well, I downloaded and installed MBM 5. Of course, my mobo was released after the last update was made to MBM, so I told it I have an Asus AV-600 (I think, it's one that has the same monitoring chip as mine, anyway). That should work, right?

MBM 5 says that my CPU temp is 34 C idle. Certainly a relief, but what should I make of it since my BIOS is reporting 48 C? :confused:

I'm not sure what the Vcore is set to, saph. I can check it out and post back this evening.

[saphalline]

MBM5 and other temp-monitoring software are often very good at reading the signals from the mobo's sensors. However, software is not as good as hardware in this case, and the software cannot account for calibration of the sensors. In your case, MBM5 is doing a great job of displaying relative temp changes, but can't display an accurate CPU temp. If your CPU increases by 5C, both the BIOS and MBM5 will go up by 5C, but only your BIOS temp will be spot-on.

I just checked the link you gave for your mobo. If you don't have the latest BIOS (v 1.0f) you should get it. The new BIOS version specifically adds support for revision E3 CPU's, which just so happens to be what Venice is! If those CPU temps are bothering you, I would try that first. If you already have the latest BIOS, then I would suggest waiting for the AS 5 to "sink in" in addition to checking the Vcore (which should be 1.4V by the way).

[pentachris]

Thanks for checking that out for me, saphalline. Before the board arrived, while researching it and looking at the BIOS updates, I saw that about E3 processors. But I didn't know what that meant :o . I'll check the BIOS revision this evening, flash if necessary (I'm sure it will be) and see what that does.

In your case, MBM5 is doing a great job of displaying relative temp changes

Relative to what? Does it just start at some arbitrary number and move up or down as the actual temp moves up or down? I'm not sure I understand. :confused:

[saphalline]

It doesn't start at some arbitrary value, but it does default to the calibration of whatever mobo you told it! Your specific mobo isn't on the list, so you picked a similar one. But the one you picked is calibrated differently. See the problem?

It's really too bad that MBM is no more. But cut the author some slack here. All he wanted was to continue, but complications in the coding and mis-information (or no information) from the mobo manufacturers just frustrated him too much. That's essentially why he gave up on it.

I don't really understand what the big deal was, anyway. It seems like a good idea from the mobo manufacturers' point of view: freeware that forwards the temp sensor info directly into Windows! What's not to like?

[pentachris]

Makes sense. Thanks.

[alex666]

That one is not part of the chipset itself. Even though the SATA ports are routed through the Southbridge, the SATA capability is not built into the Southbridge. It was just sort of tacked on as an afterthought.

I'm not sure that's correct. Check out the link below, from VIA, where it states " . . . the VIA VT8237 South Bridge enables multiple drive connectivity options and brings NATIVE (my emphasis) support for Serial ATA and Serial RAID to the Mainstream PC for the first time".

http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/southbridge/vt8237/specs.jsp

Plus, the via sata/raid drivers are specifically listed as VT 8237 drivers.

Sorry if I'm getting off topic a bit here, just trying to get clarification, as questions about loading these sata drivers during XP install continues to come up again and again on various forums.

marty

[saphalline]

Hmmm... I wasn't aware that the VT8237 Southbridge was paired with the KT600 Northbridge... Very interesting...

Ok, so yeah, the VT8237 Southbridge does indeed posess native SATA. So why the need for drivers? Something weird is going on with that chipset. I guess my point is, if you have to install drivers then it's not native! I guess that particular chipset is some sort of weird hybrid, where the SATA is native, but it still requires drivers. I'm not too sure why this is, but I didn't make the chipset! :p

[pentachris]

Sorry if I'm getting off topic a bit here, just trying to get clarification, as questions about loading these sata drivers during XP install continues to come up again and again on various forums.
I don't mind; they're good questions directly related to something the thread starter (me :cool: ) brought up.

[alex666]

I have read others claiming that, with native chipset sata controllers, one does not need to install the sata drivers during XP/2000 installation, the whole F6 deal. But that does not always seem to be the case, at least with the widely-used VT 8237 chipset. I'm just amazed at the manufacturers' vague and poor explanations re. attaching sata drives and using them for boot drives, especially since all the new mobos have sata controllers, sometimes two of them. On my nf2 400 ultra, it clearly uses a "3rd-party" sata controller, and Silicon Image controller. And in the manual for that mobo, there is absolutely no explanation for attaching a sata drive other than setting up a raid configuration. Go figure.

Be that as it may, my alby kt-600 system is rock-solid (so is my alby nf2 400 ultra), and I absolutely love sata drives. I think they are a tad bit quicker (obviously, my 74g raptor flies, but in my experience even my wd 7200 sata drive is faster than its ide cousin), and my ide channels are free for optical drives or whatever. Plus, no slave-master-cable select factors with which to deal. I'm anxious to see how sata II pans out. An early review I read showed no major improvement in performance except for certain tasks, and primarily when in raid0 configurations.

marty

[saphalline]

Hard drive performance is no where near enough to saturate even SATA 1.0's bandwidth of 1500Gb/s, so doubling that to SATA 2.0's 3000Gb/s will not magically make hard drives perform twice as fast!

What SATA 2.0 does bring to the table is automatic NCQ, hot swappability, external connection capability, and multi-HD/single-port RAID options.

Eventually, SATA will take over all fixed and semi-fixed drive connections. USB 2.0 and firewire "b" are already taking over all peripheral and removable storage connections. And there's the inevitable march of PCIe. If all goes well, we will very soon see the demise of systems sporting a dozen incompatible bus architectures! :D Getting down to just 3 will significantly increase system efficiency and responsiveness. Can we say "IRQ-less"? ;)

[pop pop]

Can we say "IRQ-less"?

I think I just soiled my knickers. :D

A world without IRQs? What's next?

[alex666]

What's next? My best guess, and it's probably not original, is that the advent of dual-core cpus will bring on multi-core cpus on add-in cards in a way similar to the current sli allows two vpus, though I would hope with both vpus and cpus the final form will be a bit more elegant that the current SLI.

[pentachris]

I used the WinFlash utility to update my BIOS. alex666's "vague and poor explanations" comes to mind. Do I want/need to update the BootBlock, the ESCD Block, the DMI Block, the MainBlock? No explanation as to what they are is given. I updated them all.

Upon rebooting, it didn't. Reboot, that is. A long beep from the speaker that FTT found about once a second, and that's it.

I used the Top Hat Flash chip to get it back up and running (a nifty little gizmo, by the way). This time I'm going to do it the right way - the old school way.

I go to bootdisk.com and make a BIOS flashing floppy and copy over the DOS flash utility and .bin file.

I'm about to reboot to the floppy when I think maybe I should try clearing the CMOS (duh). Move the jumper, move it back, and power up. Poof - Bob's my uncle. :)

BIOS says it's reconfiguring the CPU info. Windows finds new hardware and reboots. The BIOS now says the CPU is a cool 34 C. :cool:

CPU-Z reports the V-Core as fluctuating between 1.392 V and 1.408 V. Which I assume means it's sitting right at 1.4, where it should be. Ironically, CPU-Z reported the same thing before the BIOS flash...

Anyway, thanks to all who helped me out here! Send me your addresses and I'll ship you each a case of beer/Bawls/whatever. :D

Next project: get rid of some of my computer junk that's filling up the office floor and closet to appease my wife. I think I'm going to build a computer or two and find a non-profit that will put them to good use and write me a tax receipt. :)

[alex666]

Next project: get rid of some of my computer junk that's filling up the office floor and closet to appease my wife. I think I'm going to build a computer or two and find a non-profit that will put them to good use and write me a tax receipt.

First off, great news. Hope it all loads up well for you now. Re. the above, that's exactly what I'm doing, taking old but still very good parts and building computers for my son's school. I've given them an excellent kt-333 system already, my own first build. I'm eye-balling the new venice chip perhaps on a nf4 mobo in the not-too-distant future, and so likely my kt-600 will also go to the school. Plus, I've got a pally chip laying about, plus a new psu that I haven't used that came with a case, and so I could even build another system as well. It's a private non-denominational school with little money, but excellent teachers and a great attitude, so even spending some money on computer parts out of pocket does not bother me. But from a bottom-line perspective, come next tax season I'll be able to claim $1000 for the first computer I gave them, and probably another grand or so from the others I provide. Plus, I still service the computers, so it's fun. The kt-333 blows away anything else they have in the school.

marty

[saphalline]

The kt-333 blows away anything else they have in the school.Hahahaa! That one made me laugh! :D That's true of most schools, including the smaller colleges! :eek: :p I may have to use the donation route myself soon. My older hardware really is older, but still servicable.

Yes, multi-core CPU's are on the way. Check my recent thread (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=37374) on this subject. I think AMD's dual/multi-core CPU's will do better than Intel's (in their current state) because Intel's cores are not attached in any way! Instead, the two cores must communicate with eachother over the FSB, which is already quite busy trying to feed two cores! AMD's cores have a direct connection to eachother. Once again, AMD is a bit behind Intel in time scheduling, but will ultimately make a bigger splash with much better efficiency. Only time will tell, but as you know I'm not in the pocket of either company, I just follow the performance... :D

pentachris - Glad to hear it all worked out! And glad to hear you got it to work! One of those things we don't run into a whole lot is that after a BIOS update/flash, you need to reset the CMOS! But of course we also advocate the use of restraint regarding BIOS updates unless absolutely necessary, which it was in your case. The BIOS thing just doesn't come up a lot. At least the temps are working again! :D