New build! - parts recomended?

[ErnieK]

This stupid thing I am working on is on its last legs, it does not limp along, it follows along behind three days later :rolleyes:

So I have decided to take the plunge once again and build new and in doing so I will be entering the realms of the unknown for me, with SATA and Raid etc. Due to lack of finances I want to spread as much as possible the outlay so will be wanting to re-use some existing hardware and then update/upgrade as and when I can afford.

Parts being kept are:
DVD-RW drive (4 months old)
DVD-rom drive (10 months old)
Utilise Hard drive (120GB Maxtor ATA - 1 year old) along with new SATA drives (hopefully 2x 200GB drives)
128MB AGP Nvidia Graphics card (9 months old) (To be upgrade at later date to PCI express)
Pinnacle Sytems PCI card and hardware (for vid editing - just over year old)
17" CRT mintor with a new/Recon TFT when I can afford. (need suggestion for specs for this I know lower response numbers are better)

A fair amount of Video Editing will be done on new computer.
So new parts for the moment are:
Motherboard - To choice which all else depends on
(must have AGP for existing card and PCI Express capabilities for future upgrade - I know there a couple out there somewhere that have this abillity) I have not decided on processor yet as this depends on Mobo. Must also have a connector for floppy drive) - £75.00 (approx cost) Roughly 140.00$
Processor -
Minimum 3Ghz/3.4Mhz with possibility of future upgrade a couple of years down the line.
Memory -
1Gb (I will be looking at Crucial site when board selected unless you can recommend)
SATA hard drives (make and whether to buy OEM or Retail)

At the moment I am trying to decide between a couple of cases (nothing to fancy) with 400W PSU.
Also reccomendation for number of cooling fans for case with above installed.

[pop pop]

Well, Ernie...

I think there are two major factors here that will severely limit your search. The first is a mobo with AGP and PCIe-16. I did a quick search on Newegg and there are none at all--not Intel-or AMD-based. That doesn't mean the don't exist, just that Newegg doesn't carry them--and that's not a good sign. The second requirement you list is a 3.0-3.4 PCU with possibility of future upgrade a couple of years down the line. There are two issues here. The first is that those speeds are mid to upper end for current Intel P4 chips (there will be no 4Ghz) so if you went Intel, the question would be upgrade to what? A couple of years down the line would mean only one thing in terms of upgrade--dual core. That would mean a mobo with dual core support now. At a minimum, you have to make the mobo decision. I would give up the AGP slot idea--sell the card you have--and go PCIe-16 now, especially considering the fact you'll be doing video. If you do that, next decide Intel or AMD. I think only then can you really begin to narrow the mobo and CPU fields.

Crucial is superb RAM, you can't go wrong there. Corsair RAM is also very good and is a bit more affordable right now.

About the only suggestion I can make for you at this time is in the HDD area. I like Seagate Barracuda (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148066) drives with NCQ (mobo will have to support NCQ). They are solid, quick, and reliable. They come with a 5 year warrantee. My second choice would be Maxtor Diamondmax 10 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144357), also with NCQ.

That's about all I can suggest till you decide the mobo limiting issues. Let us know what you decide.

[pentachris]

Motherboard - To choice which all else depends on
(must have AGP for existing card and PCI Express capabilities for future upgrade - I know there a couple out there somewhere that have this abillity)
I don't think so, and a quick search at newegg doesn't turn any up. I realize you won't be ordering from newegg, but their product search tool makes it easy to look for such things.

Also, I'd think that if such a motherboard did exist it would use a chipset that you wouldn't be happy with.

Being a budget-oriented builder myself, I know more about AMD than Intel. At the 3000+ level, Socket 754 Semprons are around $100, Socket 939 Athlon 64's are around $150. The biggest performance difference between the two is that Socket 939 is capable of running dual channel RAM and Socket 754 isn't.

Looking at motherboards, the best chipset for the Socket 939 platform is the nForce 4 Ultra. They start at around $100, and support PCIe. The K8T800 chipset isn't too bad for the 939's either - they also start at around $100 and support AGP.

For Socket 754, you can also go with the K8T800 chipset and AGP with boards starting just above $50. There are a few Socket 754 boards that use the nForce 4 (not Ultra) chipset to give you PCIe support starting at around $70.

A PCIe card that will give the non-gamer all the horsepower he'll need is the Radeon X300; they can be had for as little as $75.

I know it's not what you wanted to hear, but I wouldn't recommend spending your money on a motherboard that you might not be happy with down the road.

Maybe someone else knows of a good one offering both AGP and PCIe, and I'm sure someone will come along and run down Intel options for you.

[ErnieK]

Well that decides CPU. AMD it is. I have grabbed the link to Tom's hardware in the following thread
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=36773

This is what I find difficult to get my head round with modern AMD's, and find it of-putting.
AMD Athlon 64 3400+ / 2.4 GHz processor (part of the spec for an AMD 64 3400+
I know that AMD altered the figure(s) to give the impression of faster speeds but the actual advertised speed is approx 2 thirds of what it says.

After a quick look Seagate drives seem to be the cheapest at the moment so I have bookmarked them.

This takes us back to Motherboards. The following depends on the answer for this.

To go for 256MB PCI Express graphics card adds another approx £100.00 (180 - 190$'s) onto initial cost, but will see what total £'s comes out at before making final decision.

[saphalline]

There is indeed a chipset that supports both AGP 8x and PCIe x16: VIA's PT880 Pro. As far as I know, this chipset has just been released, so mobo's equipped with it should be out within the next month. This chipset supports single-core Pentium4's & Celeron D's only.

For Intel upgrade opportunities, you have the choice of going with LGA 775 (aka "Socket T") featuring the i915/925 series of chipsets for the current single-core P4's & Celeron D's. The upcoming i945/955 series of chipsets will support the soon-to-be-released dual-core CPU's (Pentium D "Smithfield" is technically out already). All of these chipsets are designed for PCIe.

For AMD, you have the choice of going with Socket 754 using either NVidia's Nforce4 (standard) chipset for PCIe support and a bit more modern SATA & RAID, etc, support - or for the older VIA K8T800 Pro chipset for AGP support. Socket 939 opens up a few more doors, with the full range of NForce4/Ultra/SLI chipsets in addition to the K8T800 Pro (yes it supports 939, too). There is no chipset for the K8 platform using both AGP 8x and PCIe x16.

As for the question of how the Athlon64 achieves a rating of 3400+ with only 2.4GHz of raw clock speed... well, I've explained this phenomenon in the past. Basically, AMD's CPU's are more efficient per clock cycle. If you want me to dig up a link, I'll look for one...

[pentachris]

To go for 256MB PCI Express graphics card adds another approx £100.00 (180 - 190$'s) onto initial cost, but will see what total £'s comes out at before making final decision.
I know nothing about this retailer (just looking for something in the UK), but here's (http://www.misco.co.uk/productinformation/~75488~/CONNECT%20RADEON%20X300%20256MB%20PCI-E%20DDR%2BDVI%2BTV.htm) one for £61.99 excluding VAT, £72.84 w/ VAT (I have no idea what VAT is). Here's (http://www.misco.co.uk/productinformation/~75487~/CONNECT%20RADEON%20X300%20128MB%20PCI-E%20DDR%2BDVI%2BTV.htm) one for about £9 less, and I don't think going down from 256 MB to 128 MB on the video card is going to hurt you unless you're gaming. Remember, video editing is not as graphics card intensive as it may sound - having plenty of RAM to hold the video in memory that you're working on, a speedy hard drive to read and write those large files, and a quick processor for those big encoding jobs is much more important.

[ErnieK]

Saph
I have decided to go for the AMD 939 (AMD Athlon 64 3400+ Processor). So mid range board recommendations for this now needed.

Pent
VAT is 17&half% (what you would call purchase) tax. Goverments way of making you pay tax twice on all products except for food.

First link is 250MB second link is 128MB and as the difference is only £7.00 (13.00$) I have bookmarked the first one as it is looking more and more like I will have to plump up for new graphics card now.

[i an not a nerd]

Well, If you are trying to be economic, I would go with a AMD 64 3000+ and overclock it as much as you can (i have mine running at 2.8 ghz hopefully gonna be 3 ghz+ once i get the waterblock).

O, and about RAM, Mushkin ram is extremely reliable, fast, and very overclockable.

[saphalline]

Well, If you are trying to be economic, I would go with a AMD 64 3000+ and overclock it as much as you canPersonally, that's what I would do, too. But keep in mind that most people don't want to (or don't know how to) OC, and it's not a good idea to promote OC'ing to everyone you talk to. Sooner or later, a newbie is gonna come knocking on your door because they melted their proc by following your advice! :p OC'ing is dangerous in the wrong hands, and it also voids the CPU warranty. Unless you know someone is specifically able to understand the dangers and overall knowledge of OC'ing, your best bet is to remain on the side of caution.

ErnieK - This Chaintech mobo (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813152049) is based on the NForce4 Ultra chipset, has really good reviews, and costs less than $100 USD.

Chaintech has been making a name for themselves with high-quality value-oriented mobo's, and I feel confident in recommending them. The NForce4 Ultra chipset has several advantages over the regular NForce4, and I wouldn't suggest going with anything less. You'll get 4 SATA 2.0 ports, a PCIe x16 slot for the vid card, GbE (gigabite Ethernet) onboard (including NVidia's proprietary "Active Armor" firewall for it), and 4 slots for up to 4GB of dual-channel DDR400 RAM. Even if you don't get that specific mobo, all you have to do is look for a mobo using the NForce4 Ultra chipset in your price range. As long as it has all this, plus a good brand name & quality to back it up, you can't go wrong.

As for the vid card, look for a Radeon X300, not a Radeon X300 SE. There most definitely is a difference, so be on your guard! Per the links that pentachris listed, I think that first one is a better deal, also. Even if you don't need the extra vid RAM, who can argue with twice the vid RAM for a small price increase? The core & RAM speed are the same for both, so why not? This is the power user in us talking! :eek: :D

[ErnieK]

Saph
I have tried to source the chaintech board in the uk for the past two hours without success. Plenty of review links for it in the uk, a couple that say buy here but when followed the sites do not have it and a couple say they have never had it when contacted by mail. OH WELL! onwards we go again

Thanks for the warning about the Graphics card.

[pentachris]

I recently bought and set up an ECS KN1 Extreme motherboard; it's based on the nForce 4 Ultra chipset. I found a few available in the UK here (http://computing.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/sbs/111101/13363339.html); a review here (http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ecs_kn1_extreme/). It's another high quality value oriented board.

With these new motherboards, check to be sure your existing power supply will be sufficient. While researching the KN1 Extreme, I saw this warning at ZipZoomFly (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=243849): This item requires an ATX 2.0 compliant power supply. I looked up the manual online, and it stated that a 4 pin 12 volt connector was required and that a 24 pin ATX connector was strongly recommended. So I added a power supply to my shopping cart at newegg.

It may not be the same with all Socket 939 boards, but it's best that you check it out thoroughly.

[i an not a nerd]

saphalline: Sooner or later, a newbie is gonna come knocking on your door because they melted their proc by following your advice! Lol, yes its true. Many noobs to OCing have asked me why their chip has died. Most of them used the stock fans for cooling, even though I tell them what to buy.

About power supply, go with at least 500w, you will need the power whenever you upgrade.

[ErnieK]

I have found this Motherboard.
http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/103175/art/asustek/a8n-e-socket-939-amd-chip.html?srcid=369&srcid=369#fichetechnique
Comments please. the one drawback that I can see is that there is no facillty for WiFi (I know if I eventually go down that route I can insert a PCI card)

The case I am going for is this (who says that I am a stick in the mud that never goes near the wild side of life :D )
http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/45732/art/advance/pc-case-zorro-silver-8066.html
It comes with a 450Watt PSU installed, and even if happens to be a wee bit noisy it will at least do until I can afford to get something quieter.

I have also decided to go for a single Seagate 200GB Sata Drive instead of install two, the difference in price will allow me to get the PCIe graphics card that pentachris suggested (not the SLE model)

Processor:
Is there much difference between the AMD64 3000+/3200+/3400+ as I am finding it difficult to source a 3400+ for the 939 so it looks as though it might have to be a 3200+ or a 3000+

When I view the details online I have noticed that the the clock speed on the Skt754 seems to be faster than the Skt939.
Why is this?
(for example)
939 (3000+)
CORE CLOCK SPEED 1.8Ghz
SPEED 3000+
BUS SPEED 2000Mhz
CACHE LEVEL 1 128KB
CACHE LEVEL 2 512KB

754 (3000+)
3000+
Clock Speed 2 GHz
Processor Socket Socket 754
Cache Level 1 Size 128 KB
L2 Cache - 512 KB

Do the 939's run slower or is it all to do with the upgraded arcitecture giving false impressions?

If I have not said it before THANKS for your input(s)

[Dogdaysdude]

In choosing parts for my system, I don't have the mobo yet, but I've downloaded & read the manual many, many times. It should tell you what amperage you need on the +12V side. Make sure your power supply can deliver that capacity.

[pentachris]

Well, that's certainly a good motherboard. I noticed it doesn't have onboard firewire, though; is that not something you'll want for your video editing?

My position is that WiFi is for notebooks. I have a wireless router for my wife's notebook, but my desktop is cabled to it.

Here's (http://www.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/socket939/A8N-E/e1911_a8n-e.pdf) the manual for that motherboard; page 28 says you'll need a 24 pin ATX connection on the power supply and a 4 pin 12 volt connector (http://www7.tomshardware.com/howto/20041223/index.html). The reviewer on pixmania says she's running an Athlon 64 system with hers, so maybe it'll be OK. I wish I could get more info on the PSU. Myself, I'd rather have a 400 W PSU from a company like Antec, Enermax, etc, than a 500 W generic.

Yes, the 939 3000+ runs at a lower clock speed than the 754 3000+. But it can do more per cycle...

I didn't think the price jump from 3000+ to 3200+ was worth it, so I stuck with the 3000+. I did spring a bit extra for the Venice core (http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=666&cid=1), though. SSE3 instruction set, lower heat dissipation (although I'm having a little problem with that on mine) and an improved memory controller set it apart from the previous cores. It's just been released in the past month.

I've read that Asus boards are picky about RAM. It's not hard to get RAM that will work with them, but you should check compatability before you buy. A list of known compatible RAM is in the manual.

[saphalline]

That's definitely a good mobo (Asus is always good), but pentachris brings up a good point that I missed last time: onboard firewire! Will you need this? If so, it's generally a good idea to get it built into the mobo. It's cheaper that way, and most firewire chips will support one port in the back, and a header for another front port. Much preferred over spending the extra money for a PCI firewire card!

It's also a good idea to do as Dogdaysdude said and DL & read the mobo manual before you buy. The manual will be your primary source of info and set-up instructions, so you'll want one that's easy to follow! Asus is good about this, as well as a few other select mobo manufacturers (like Abit, MSI, etc).

The topic of PSU's is getting more and more complicated by the new BTX/24-pin standard. 24-pin mobo's out-number 24-pin PSU's by a large margin! There are tons of hardware vendors that carry a dozen or more 24-pin mobo's, but require you to "special order" a 24-pin PSU! What madness is that? To further complicate the subject, there is no component that has a wider range of quality (ie crap to decent to high quality) than PSU's! The manufacturer is the biggest determining factor to quality, so that narrows it down a bit. Good manufacturers include Enermax, Antec, Thermaltake, PC Power & Cooling, and a few others. If you can find a 24-pin PSU with a nice high wattage made by one of these, plunk down your money! It's a done deal!

The Socket 939 versions of the Athlon64 always get a higher rating because they have dual-channel capability. Having more RAM bandwidth is worth the sacrifice of a mere 200MHz CPU core speed. Dual-channel is all the rage now, and not just with gamers - any CPU intensive task will benefit from more RAM bandwidth. If you can't get exactly the speed you want, go ahead and move down. The 3000+ and 3200+ models are currently the best bang for the money right now, regardless of what core revision you get. Newcastle, Winchester, Venice, whatever! You really only need to care about the core revision if you intend to OC or are building a silent PC. The new memory controller on the Venice core revision is nice, but I still say dual-channel should be set up right or not at all! If you can't take the time and effort to get identical sticks of RAM, you don't deserve dual-channel! Sorry... done ranting...

[pentachris]

The new memory controller on the Venice core revision is nice, but I still say dual-channel should be set up right or not at all! If you can't take the time and effort to get identical sticks of RAM, you don't deserve dual-channel! Sorry... done ranting...
It's my understanding that with previous core revisions, 4 sticks of dual-sided RAM wouldn't work in dual channel mode whether they were identical or not.

[saphalline]

They did work, but only at DDR333 speed. Even if it was DDR400, it would revert to DDR333 speed. Unless of course you use registered RAM but that capability was surgically removed from the Athlon64 when AMD made all those changes from the Opteron. It was messy business, but AMD did get the Athlon64 out the door.

And at that point, how many people noticed? :p How many people at that time were running single-CPU systems with 4GB of RAM? Or even today? Hopefully AMD will have enough time to elegantly design the next onboard memory controller for DDR2 support, but until then it seems like the new Venice core is getting closer...

[ErnieK]

I have downloaded the manual that pentachris posted and will print it out before going to bed for some soft gentle dream inducing pre-sleep relaxation. :rolleyes:

I will wait and see what the supplied PSU is like before ordering another one (if neccessary)

I have decided to opt for the AMD 64 3000+ Venice processor.

WiFi capabilities?
(At the moment I have cabled network running along the skirting board and up through the ceiling to upstairs bedroom) so this is not (at the moment) an essential.

I had not noticed the lack of Firewire (though my Pinnicle PCI card has firewire ports built into it and this will have to be installed to enable Tv & video in/Tv & video out back to VHS as required)

So I suppose this means choosing another motherboard. So any suggestions as to one with same quality and price? with both WiFi (and if possible) cable networking capabilities and firewire It must also have mimimum 3 PCI slots

The only thing I had to select was the RAM, all other parts are selected but not ordered yet. once a final decision is made on the mobo I will post full specs of the components. (and links to them)

At the moment The costing for HDD - Case - Processor (heatsink/fan still to be selected) - Motherboard (to be changed) - Graphics 256MB PCIe this = £370.00 (690.00$) To purchase a ready made with with similar specs would cost approx (minimum £600.00) The pleasure and challenge of home build far out ways any benifits of factory built. :D :D thoug when parts are here it will be :confused: :o :( :confused:

Please keep suggestions and advice coming. ;)

[saphalline]

Well, if your Pinnacle card already has firewire, then what's the big deal? That Asus mobo looks perfect! And what's up with the wireless worries? All wireless cards are PCI - buy it, plug it in, install the drivers. There are a few rare mobo's that come with wireless already, but they cost upwards of $200 USD! :eek: Seems a bit out of your price range and needs to me.

The PSU is another problem. I'm going to strongly suggest you buy another PSU than the one bundled with your case. The two most important parts of any computer are: mobo, PSU. If either of these two parts are bad, your system as a whole will be unstable, unreliable, and other parts can even be damaged! If both of these two parts are of high quality, then any other problem you have will be much easier to diagnose. If you've ever had to do a service call that involved the skillful use of a voltmeter, you'll know what I mean!

[ErnieK]

saphalline
I bow to your wisdom. In fact I grovel before your superior intelect (in this matter only, in all others I claim to be, if not equal, then superior :D ) As you say it just means installing a PCI card for the "missing" items. So decision made I am keeping chosen mobo

When the case arrives I will post the full specs of the PSU before I start to build. (I will order it tomorrow so it should be here Monday / Teusday) and if necessary I will at that point order nw one if required.

This just leaves the memory and heatsink.
RAM
Remembering my finances what is suggested for RAM (I am wanting to insert 1Gb - either 2x (matching) 512MB (my preference in case Ram goes bad in the future and I would at least have something left to work with) or 1x 1GB

Heatsink
I know that I have to get other than supplied with processor. What is suggested for this?

[saphalline]

If you won't be OC'ing, then a retail version of an Athlon64 comes with the stock heatsink/fan unit. This is more than enough cooling for stock speeds. In fact, you can even do a bit of OC'ing with that alone (but not too much!). The stock HSF units are the easiest to install. Just peel off the plastic film from the thermal pad and slap it on! If you buy a 3rd-party HSF unit (or if you buy the heatsink and fan separately) you'll also need some thermal grease like Arctic Silver 5/Ceramique, and there's additional instructions for applying that, not to mention the heatsink may have an installation quirk. For your needs, the stock cooler should be more than enough, and easier to deal with, too.

RAM - Hmmm... 2 x 512MB sticks would be cheaper and better. In order to use dual-channel with Socket 939, you must have two or four sticks of RAM. Crucial/Micron makes really good stuff, as does Corsair (their Value Select series is excellent), and Kingston (they call it Kingston Value RAM or "KVR"). These are the three RAM manufacturers that are on my own personal short list. And each of them has high quality DDR400 512MB sticks for around $40-45 USD (each). For dual-channel, you'll need to buy two identical sticks, so just pick up two of whatever you buy. Technically, as long as the latencies and all other timings match, they should work in dual-channel mode. I have two mis-matched sticks of 512MB Kingston working flawlessly in dual-channel right now - I just had to make sure all their timings were the same.

[ErnieK]

I am at present am printing out the manual for the mobo so will look for type of RAM there and then take up one of your suggestions as to make.

As per your instructions I will stick with the heat sink that comes with the processor as I have never had a game on any of my computers (except for MS's default games which lie unused year after year). The heaviest use will be when I am making/rendering DVD's.

I will also keep you updated on the specs of the PSU when it arrives and be guided by you then. I will also post the full specs of my choices tomorrow.

The easy part is over now comes the hard part.

Waiting for the parts to be delivered!! :rolleyes: :D

[pop pop]

Corsair along these lines--unbelievably inexpensive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145440

[pentachris]

I agree with pop pop. That's good RAM at a good price.

Notice the model number carefully, though: VS1GBKIT400. Corsair also has a Value Select Ram dual channel kit offering with the model number VS1GBKIT400C3. The former is preferable due to it's lower latency. I wasn't paying attention when I ordered mine and got the latter...

[ErnieK]

So for memeory I will order:
Corsair 1GB DDR Value Select PC3200 CAS2.5 Kit (2x512MB) (VS1GBKIT400) (MY-041-CS)

and not
Corsair 1GB DDR Value Select PC3200 CAS3.0 (VS1GB400C3) (MY-062-CS)

from here:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Corsair_Value_Select.html

4th item down

[ErnieK]

Well all parts have now been selected and ordered. All deliveries should arrive by the end of the week. Extra-Large swear box being made at this moment in time to accommodate the building of proposed computer, the configuration of which is as follows.

Mobo: Asustech A8N-E (http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/103175/art/asustek/a8n-e-socket-939-amd-chip.html?srcid=369&srcid=369 )
This looked to be the best one for me. It has built in facilities for overclocking that are idiot proof. The only thing lacking in it is the fact that there is no FIREWIRE or WiFi, but this can be overcome with a PCI card and my Home network is cabled. Besides it is my understanding that USB2 is actually a wee bit faster than firewire. The built in FIREWALL looks quite good as well. But I will decide on that after installation and checking it out. If I do not like it I will un-install it and install ZA or some such.

Proccesor: Retail Boxed AMD Athlon 64 3000 Venice Core 512k 90nm Socket 939Pin (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?AMD-64930V )
I was was going to go for the 3200 or the 3400 but the cost was of putting. Plus the 3000 is more easily clocked (see mobo facilities)

1GB RAM: VS512MBKIT400 PC3200 2x256MB CAS2.5 (http://www.dabs.com/uk/channels/components/memoryandaccessories/productView.htm?quicklinx=33JK )
Again I read that this has been safely overclocked to 444Mhz (http://www.a1-electronics.net/Memory/2005/Corsair_PC3200_Feb.shtml )
Though I have never tried overclocking I will try it at some time in the future because of the safety factors built into the motherboard.

HDD: SEAGATE 200GB HARD DRIVE 7200RPM SATA 150 (http://www.misco.co.uk/productinformation/~75571~/product.htm?affiliate=2020 )
This will be my main HDD. I was going to install 2 of these but changed my mind and decided on one for the moment, the difference in cost thus allows me to buy my PCIe graphics card. I will get the second one when I can afford it. I will just bring in my (PATA) drive and use that as well for the moment.

I will be (trying) to setup with the SATA drive as MASTER and the IDE as the secondary drive. I will ask for instructions when I am at that point as I will be keeping this computer up and running until new one is running and tested OK. I will then format & remove the HDD from here and install it into the new.

Graphics; CONNECT RADEON X300 256MB PCI-E DDR+DVI+TV (http://www.misco.co.uk/productinformation/~75488~/CONNECT%20RADEON%20X300%20256MB%20PCI-E%20DDR%2BDVI%2BTV.htm )

Case: ADVANCE PC case Zorro Black (8066S) (http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/45733/art/advance/pc-case-zorro-black-8066s.html ) Choice of two colours (Silver & Black) and have decided to go for the black.

Floppy:
PSU: The case comes with one fitted (460W) and will take advice on whether it is of any use once I see it and post specs for it.
3 case fans are also supplied with the case.

And finally I decided to splash out and get new K/board and mouse as well. (http://www.trust.com/products/product.aspx?artnr=12742 )

I will be removing the DVD-RW & DVD-Rom drives from here to install along with my Pinnacle card.

After being accustomed to working mainly on older systems hardware it is surprising just how little I know about upto date hardware. Any new computers that I have worked on in the past few months have been software related problems.

The total cost of this new build will work out at about £450.00 (conversion rate 1.84 pounds to the dollar = 830.00$) To purchase factory built (Tiny/Dell etc) with these specs (or slightly below) would cost somewhere in the region of £700.00. Plus I would not have the pleasure of picking up from the floor the tufts of hair that will surely be pulled out

[pop pop]

Sounds like it's going to be a nice system!

[ErnieK]

Whilst waiting for my last two parts to be delivered (DO NOT BUY from Pixmania as thier service/delivery and support is the worst I have ever experienced - and that is saying something!! :mad: Take your money and do not tell you that they do not have item in stock.) I would like to make a custom installation CD using either nLite or BartPE.

Will I have to install Sata/Raid drivers onto the CD? I cannot make sense out of the way the mobo manual is worded for this. The manual can be downloaded from here - http://www.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/socket939/A8N-E/e1911_a8n-e.pdf

Chapter 3.4 (page 3-21) SEEMS to indicate that I would only have to make a floppy for RAID array and does not mention Sata. Page 3-22 SEEMS to say all I have to do is connect the drive(s) :confused:

[pentachris]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience...

No, you will not need SATA drivers. Because the SATA ports are controlled by the main chipset, Windows will see them as IDE drives.

[ErnieK]

Pentachris
Thanks.
Now you realise that you have caused me extreme problems because I have no excuse for not doing the disk. :p But what the heck it only high blood pressure and a full swear box (again)

I have recieved an e-mail from pixmania saying that they have recieved my faulty case - 7 days after recieving it (I have proof of signature of reciept giving date and time of) - and it states that it will take 3-4 week to examine it. All to see that there is a bare (split) wire and one fan missing. Still not recieved my mobo or any word about it. Have written a letter direct to MD to lodge complaint about the whole fiasco. Not that I expect any response going by thier previous behaviour and lack of ability. :mad:

[Paleo Pete]

I an not a nerd:

You missed the point. We avoid promoting overclocking here for the reasons saphalline pointed out. The majority of our visitors do not have the knowledge and expertise necessary to undertake something of that nature, they are here primarily because they don't know much about computers. start recommending people overclock and it won't be long until someone is not happy with us because he or she tried it, didn't know nearly enough about it and fried a CPU.

If someone specifically asks, we try to point them in the right direction for reliable information, with a definite warning about the risks. But we do not recommend overclocking as a general rule. With todays CPU speeds I don't see the point in it anyway, 300-500MHz increase over an existing 2GHz or more will only make a difference of a few milliseconds at best, your human senses will never notice it. Adding more RAM will probably make a more noticable difference unless you already have over 512MB, for gaming a better video card will do the trick. Neither will put your CPU at risk..

There are othe factors to take into consideration as well, I won't go into more detail. Just try to remember we're usually not dealing with people who are familiar enough with computer building and tweaking to handle overclocking and don't recommend people try it.

[pop pop]

Ernie,

Pentachris is right. SATA on my Asus mobo was like falling off a log. I was also wrried and sweating it right up to the last minute. It was a total breeze, no special action required.

[ErnieK]

Pop Pop
Does sweating, shaking, hiding in the cupboard under the stairs when the though of it entered your head, and feelings of panic cover the feelings that you are talking about :p If so I know nothing these feelings.

The following more properly describes the sort of hicups that are more likely to occur. I am sure you know the type of thing, a moments inatention and OOPS!
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/whoops.htm :confused:

[pentachris]

That was an interesting read, ErnieK. Especially interesting was the fact that I found a spelling mistake on a page devoted to pointing out others' mistakes. :eek:

In the section James Bond's Science, the word "technician" is spelled "techinician."

I just had to email the author... :p

[ErnieK]

Ah! that was intentional on the behalf of the writer (Just like all my mistakes) just cheching to see if you are/were observant. Now is that not a good excuse for not doing things correcly?

[pentachris]

That's your work???

I wasn't too happy to see Pink Floyd in your hall of shame; I'm a big fan - I happen to be wearing a Dark Side of the Moon T-shirt with the prism on it today!

Other than that, I'm impressed! Look for my email. ;)

[deddard]

I know this thread is a couple of months old ( I wish I'd read the whole thing sooner) but I'd like to know how you're getting on with Pixmania - have they refunded and settled everything yet?
Main reason for asking - I ordered an MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum (NForce4 Ultra) Socket 939 Mobo from them after several good reviews (including our very own Sapphaline!) - they seemed to be the only ones who stocked it.
They took the money from my card and said the order would be handled immediately - the mobo showed as in stock (and still does) but 4 days later nothing.
I emailed them and told them to cancel the order.
I telephoned them (You're right - the worst customer support ever - including Tiny!) and made sure they knew I wanted the order cancelled - they said they couldn't blah blah - so I got a bit peeved, after which they said they would try to cancel, if not I should refuse the order.

I don't usually slag companies down - but this is definitely one to avoid. I am going to complain to British, French and European authorities about them - definitely one to avoid (Pixmania is a French company)