How much for computer repairs?

[95five-0]

Hey guy I have been fixing and building computer for my friends and coworks for some time now and alot of them are putting my name out there for me. Now I have people I don't know asking me for help. Alot of it is spyware removal and file recovery. Most of these people ask me how much I charge for these services. So I was wondering if any of you guys know a going rate for this kind of stuff? I know the one computer store in this town charges $80 dollars an hour. I know that has to be high because this is a military town and the jack up the prices on stuff like that. Any input would be greatly appericated.

[PrntRhd]

Like real estate,the going rate for tech calls is based on location, location, location.
We had a thread a month or so ago where Steve was asking the same question, In his area $65/hour is the going rate.
I just drove past a shop here in the East Bay that had a placard quoting $65/hour for spyware and virus removal.

[pop pop]

Classic and I are in the greater Philadelphia area and you can bet on around $100/hr.

Commercial examples (these are rates basically quoted from the local CompUSA):

A "house call" from CompUSA techs is $149 to walk in the door. They do have frequent flyer packages that you can buy. Virus/trojan/spyware removal there is $75 for a simple effort, figure on a ton more if anything remotely complex is involved. Even then, they'll just say reformat and reinstall for over a hundred. Backing up your data to a CD before the clean and format is an addition $20. The simplest upgrade, say adding a stick of RAM, is $50 labor plus the part cost.

It is what the market will bear.

[jlreich]

I have found myself in this same situation not to long ago. I have even worked up some prices and posted them at my work so people would have an idea of what to expect. I won't say what they are, only that they are very reasonable. Also that if someone wants me to go their house or office, it will be double. But that's me. I think you have to decide what your time and effort is worth to you. And the countless hours you have spent learning the skills.

If you look through the thread PrntRhd mentioned it will provide some insight. http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=36486

Good luck. :)

[PrntRhd]

When you go to the site vs bench work, you want to be paid for the trip, so you want to include enough per hour to make the trip worthwhile, by either charging per hour for the trip or by increasing the rate to cover the travel time. Some customers object to paying for non-site time, so charging more per hour sort of hides the fact they are being charged regardless.
You also want to have enough profit that you can build your business, not just break even.
The alternative to the hourly rate structure is to offer maintenance services for a fee for a set length of time. This involves contracts so you need to understand business laws and you have to specify what terms and conditions apply.
The $65 I saw for spyware/virus removal services were likely bench rates at the shop, NOT house/office calls.

[Budfred]

There was another long thread here about a year ago about people charging for their services and it was noted that it is a really good idea to have a clear agreement for people to sign regarding your work... If you are working with malware it is quite possible that you will find systems you can't fix and that you need to get help on... Do you then charge the client for your time to investigate?? If you have to give it back to the client unresolved, do you still charge them?? Do you charge them if you end up reformatting rather than just cleaning it?? And so on... What if you drop it while you are working on it and something important breaks, are you liable??

[Paleo Pete]

I'm in the wrong state, I can't charge near what has been quoted here and people here still complain about prices...guess that comes with dinky backwards paper mill towns that resist change with bulldozers...

observations ona couple of Budfreds questions -

If I can't fix it I usually charge a half hour to troubleshoot, if I've put any time into it at all. (more than 5-10 minutes)

If hardware is purchased from me I install it for a minimal charge, $10 at most. Yes, that includes a hard drive with transferring data...

Formatting is a last resort, o course, but I charge two hours for a format/reinstall, it takes that long or longer. To just format, half hour.

If I break it, I fix it.

I have a basic customer agreement that is signed and should be read, stating prices and what I'm obligated to do, and a notice that I'm NOT responsible for data loss on the case of viruses or malware. That's everyone's primary concern, and of course only about 1 out of 30 has anything at alll backed up...one local business just got bit, lost 3 years of customer records when a hard drive suddenly died...If I can't get a controller to recognize the drive, I Can't get anything from it...

[classicsoftware]

one local business just got bit, lost 3 years of customer records when a hard drive suddenly died...If I can't get a controller to recognize the drive, I Can't get anything from it...

Drive savers can. They have pulled many peoples bacon out of the fire. They are expensive, but they are superb....

[Paleo Pete]

Yeah but they probably have a "white room" set up to disassemble a drive and grab data off the platters themselves, rather than the recovery software I use, and if the machine's BIOS won't recognize the drive I can't get a thing from it. I told the customer it could be done by data retrieval companies, but the price shot that idea down...

[yawningdog]

One thing I do and recommend for everyone else. Have a waiver written up (preferably by a lawyer) stating that the customer's data is the customer's responsibility, and that all necessary backups have been performed before I even touch a machine.

This happened to a friend of mine. He went to a customer to remove a virus. Job well done, collected fee, all was well. Two weeks later, the hard drive crashes and the customer calls the tech saying "What have you done to my computer? I've lost all my data." Ugly situation. Lawyers involved. My friend won the legal fight, but still had to pay for his part.

Lesson learned. Get a waiver signed before you start work.

[classicsoftware]

Most business would gladly pay the $3000.00 to get three years of customer data back. If you become a reseller, you get a 20% commission and they get a 20% discount. You can give them the commission and they can get 40% off. The $3000.00 job just became $1800.00.

That's a value judgement he custoemr will make. Drive savers is so well respected in the industry that even after the dissamble, take the data off, and re-assemble the drive, all HDD manufacturers will honor the warranty on the drive if their sticker is on it.

[pop pop]

Interestingly enough, what some of us do is becoming big business. Geeks On Call is Selling franchises to the tune of a $55,000 initial investment. What do most of these growing businesses do? The same stuff you find being done here, and that some here do on the side or for a living. What's being charged?

This from Digital Connect News:

The organization sets price guidelines on service calls based on the region, though independent owners can set prices themselves. An initial diagnostics call, for example, could run $99. Cleanup jobs usually run one to two hours, and some franchisees say they charge between $149 and $165 for one hour and $265 to $275 for two hours.

Geez...It would seem that I'm way under priced.

It's kind of a tiring read but the entire article can be found here: http://www.digitalconnectmag.com/news/printableArticle.jhtml?articleID=163700501

[Budfred]

I have probably trained a number of those Geeks to deal with malware... Too bad I don't meet the qualifications to open a franchise... :D

[pop pop]

You and me both, brother. I don't have $55k to pay someone to allow me to fix PCs under their name.

[classicsoftware]

I tried to tell you guys you were under priced.....

[pentachris]

Of course we're underpriced - we're nice guys. That's why we come here and help folks for free.

I used to do side work for a guy in town who does house calls for computer repairs. We charged $75 per hour, $75 minimum, and charged in 1/2 hour increments after the first hour. I was embarrassed the first few times I went out, solved a simple problem and gave them their total. I lost that embarrassment when I saw them gladly pull out their check book and sign the money over, thankful that their computer was working normally again.

[Steve]

This is a very interesting topic for me, as you guys know. As I try to get my legs under me in a full time business, I find I run into more questions than answers.

I just did a job for a local business, building, installing and networking six computers. I bid it as if everything that could go wrong would go wrong. I was the low bid for the job. Nothing went wrong and frankly, I was embarrassed at the amount I made. I returned $500 to the customer and still made very good money.

I must say, the customer was quite happy with the original price and was kind of taken back when I returned the money to him. I really didn't know if it was appropriate, but did it anyway.

I guess it just takes time and experience to get this pricing thing down right.

[jlreich]

I bid it as if everything that could go wrong would go wrong. I was the low bid for the job. Nothing went wrong and frankly, I was embarrassed at the amount I made. I returned $500 to the customer and still made very good money.
Wow! I certainly believe in fair pricing, but I would not give the money back, especially if I knew I was the lowest bid. I would consider that against the times when things do go wrong and you have to eat some of the costs. That's just the way some jobs work out. Some have more profit than others.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

Steve,
Next time you get an urge to give money back, put some Steve Miller in your CD-ROM and enjoy... :cool:

Consider this: One of these times you will have something go wrong or have a recall that wasn't figured in the price. Your excess this time+ should be to offset that.

Other than that, you should have called it a rebate... ;)

[classicsoftware]

Steve:

I wish you all of the luck in the world. But man, you are never going to survive.
If the something went wrong, would the customer have forked over the $500.00? The answer is no. When you do a job by bid, as opposed to hourly, you assume the risk, the customer does not. If you get done faster,
THE $$$ ARE YOURS, if it takes longer, you loose. But you have assumed all of the risk. If you go for the hourly and it runs over, the customer pays, if it comes in under the customer saves. He asssumes the risk. You have the worst of both worlds. If you go over you loose and if you go under you loose......

[Steve]

I wish you all of the luck in the world. But man, you are never going to survive.
Yes I will. I hope. I think. I'm sure. I just need to get used to all this.

It might be a little tacky talking about prices in a forum but...even after giving back the five bills, I still made $150/hr. Isn't this all a little excessive?

[pop pop]

Isn't this all a little excessive?

The short answer is, NO. This is a growth market.

I once posted the Ferengi Rules of Commerce before. To refresh our memories, here are just three:


There is no honor in poverty.
The justification for profit is profit.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.

Actually, as much of a capitalist as I am, I value fairness and dignity. But this is business. What is fair--or excessive--must be viewed in the context of the market.

Steve, your sense of fairness is admirable. But if we don't help them and charge what the market will bear, they'll just go to Geeks On Call, or Geek Squad, or CompUSA, or where ever and pay whatever. Likely much more than you or I would have even thought of charging. You deserve that money as much as any franchise.

If you got the job done, at the agreed to price, it was a good deal. There is no shame in that.

[Steve]

If you got the job done, at the agreed to price, it was a good deal.
Ok. Sounds right. I just have a hard time figuring why $65/hr isn't enough but $200/hr is fine...

[saphalline]

Ok. Sounds right. I just have a hard time figuring why $65/hr isn't enough but $200/hr is fine...Supply and Demand. Simple economics. There aren't much of us in the world that can do all this. What you are doing requires a lot of expertise in a lot of areas of computers. Regardless of how much you think you don't know, take a moment to ponder how many others can do it. Here on the forums, we get some pretty simple questions, but no question is really stupid. They're all valid and people are always learning, but those of us who know the answers off the top of our heads or can get these things done in an hour or two are few and far between. Supply and Demand...

I don't even do those malware/virus house-calls anymore. Not worth the headaches to me! Oh man, that stuff just got to me after awhile. Now my friend and I only do new systems and support for those that we've built. And on the support end, we don't do malware/virus house-calls! :p Unless it's for friends or family, but we don't charge for those. The support is on the stuff that we put in there, and on any software that we installed. After that, it's the customer's job to keep it clean. We do charge a bit extra for consultation on preventing malware/virus infections, as well as other topics such as networking (we do home networking), upgrades, "optionals" (Linux, Firefox, OpenOffice, stuff like that - just to get the word out), and some of the more interesting home topics like digital content creation/editing or using an HD-ready plasma display as your monitor. People like all that cool stuff! Most of them say they never knew computers could be more than just a beige box on the floor. ;)

As far as support-related house-calls, another issue no one has brought up yet is your tool kit! My friend and I are in the process of shopping for some fishing tackle boxes to keep our tools in. Max PC long ago had an issue about that, and we're finally thinking seriously about it. For house-calls, you need a lot of stuff! There's the normal things like screwdrivers and small flashlights, but sometimes you need to get creative, so there's isopropyl alcohol, twist-ties, various batteries, screws, electrical tape, chip tweezers, soldering equipment, torx drivers, lint-free wipes, emergency back-up parts like an extra CD-RW drive & CD's, USB 2.0 external laptop HDD, USB 2.0 powered hub, extra floppy drive & disks, extra networking equipment, extra drive cables, extra AGP vid card, extra RAM (just a small stick), extra PSU, PSU tester, etc. It's a lot to carry around! But it makes life so much easier when you need a known-good PSU and you have one with you! I can't tell you how many times that one has been handy. I could on with this list, but sometimes you really just have to pick a few things to take with you. Not every house-call will require a back-up floppy drive, for instance.

[YODA74]

$65/hr isn't enough but $200/hr is fine...

65.00/hr is good for a homeowner but 200.00 is way off base to charge a home owner 200.00/hr to do work for a buisness is about right, But unless the home owner has a machine worth over 2000.00 they would be smart just to add another 200.00 to the 200/hr price and buy a new machine

[jlreich]

But unless the home owner has a machine worth over 2000.00 they would be smart just to add another 200.00 to the 200/hr price and buy a new machine
Well I wouldn't go that far. In many instances the data far exceeds the worth of the machine. Many times it would be much easier and cheaper if I could have just wiped and reinstalled. But unfortunately most people don't have any kind of back up system in place. Even though I strongly urge them to do so.

Although I do agree that there is a difference in building, setting up, and networking several computers for a business, and removing some malware, or replacing a HDD for a home computer.

Keep in mind that these prices are for in home/office work. If I have to go to a home or office, it is going to cost you. ;)

[pop pop]

I just have a hard time figuring why $65/hr isn't enough but $200/hr is fine...



Steve,

If you are satisfied that you are charging and being paid a fair price for your services AND your customer is satisfied, it is enough--no matter what the amount is--end of story. My point when I opened this can of worms back up, was just to show what the market is like, where it's heading, and to sort of smack myself in the head a bit. I'm totally new to charging for doing something I enjoy--yes I do enjoy installs, debugs, fixes, configs--all that stuff. Right now, I don't charge much at all when I do charge. But if and when I do this more than as a modestly paid hobby, I want to know what the other guy's getting. Know your competition--one of the fundamentals of business.

[Steve]

originally posted by pop pop
when I opened this can of worms back up
I hope it's not a can of worms. I think it's an interesting topic and I bet even the average forum member would find it so. No matter whether you're the one charging, the one being charged or just wondering how much you saved by being helped here, the topic is interesting.

If you are satisfied that you are charging and being paid a fair price for your services AND your customer is satisfied, it is enough
If you got the job done, at the agreed to price, it was a good deal
Both very good philosophies. Comforting in a way.

To my way of thinking, the first goal of being in business is to stay in business. Whether you charge too much or to little, the result is the same. You're out of business. Thus the importance of the topic.

I guess the easy way out is just to charge what everyone else in the area charges. But having been a tradesman all my working life, I have often wondered what made a carpenter worth $25/hr, a plumber worth $50/hr, a computer tech worth $100/hr, a lawyer worth $200/hr and a surgeon worth $2000/hr.

Who comes up with these prices? :)

[pop pop]

what made a carpenter worth $25/hr, a plumber worth $50/hr, a computer tech worth $100/hr, a lawyer worth $200/hr and a surgeon worth $2000/hr.

I'm not an economist in academic terms, but I would say simple economics--which isn't always simple. Generally speaking, the market sets the price. There are certain complexities or drivers that factor in to each market: startup costs, supply and demand, overhead, competition, and the consumer base.

In no particular order and not covering all of them:

Startup costs--The two easiest of your examples to compare here are the carpenter and the surgeon. The carpenter may learn the trade skills via OJT from a relative, a friend, or on his own. He needs tools--hammers, nails, saws, ladders and such and maybe a work vehicle to get to and from the job site. Not terribly expensive to get going. The surgeon--four years undergrad study, two to four years grad study, two years internship or residency, licensing, and then a partnership or association with a hospital. Lot's of startup costs to recover there.

Supply and Demand--There are probably more carpenters per capita than there are surgeons. When you need a carpenter, you can look in the phonebook or elsewhere and go shopping for a bargain. When you need a surgeon, will you really go looking for the cheapest guy out there? Not likely.

Overhead and payroll--The surgeon has to pay for office space, utilities, staff, malpractice insurance, continuing education/skills development, and a whole bunch more. Those costs get passed onto those who need his services.

You get the picture...you already knew it. Some of the difference between what some of us may charge and what business like Geeks On Call, ComPUSA, or Best Buys charge falls primarily into a couple of those areas--startup, overhead and payroll--they have to cover the rent/lease/utilities/franchise fees along with paying people who work for them. I don't have to do that. Not exactly anyway. I do this type of work from my home. I can deduct part of my mortgage and utilities and I only get paid when my wife is kind enough to give me the money :rolleyes: That keeps payroll low. It also logically means that I can charge less than those other places, and still turn a profit--after deducting what I give the government in taxes related to the business.

The real trick is figuring out for yourself what your time and skills are worth. I have a simple formula, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. I figure I'm worth AT LEAST what my current employer pays for my time and skills--that's my loaded rate, not my hourly or salary rate. Loaded rate means you include the cost of all benefits. When and if I ever do this full time, I'll keep that number in mind but adjust it (up) for other other factors. And I'll always watch what the other guy is getting because I like to think I'm good at what I do and I should be adequately compensated for it.

[Paleo Pete]

But unless the home owner has a machine worth over 2000.00 they would be smart just to add another 200.00 to the 200/hr price and buy a new machine

That's the problem I see over and over. Even at prices a good bit lower than some quoted here, most people don't want to shell out over $100-150, wally world has one for $500 or less, why bother with fixing this one?...So I'm usually lucky to see anything over about $75.

[classicsoftware]

The rub is not in the fixing. It's the data and programs. It;s not like you unlplug the old TV and plug in the new TV.

You need to:

Transfer the Data
Transfer the settings
Install the programs, office, firefox, AV etc


It's not like the new machine will be $500.00 and ready to go w/o added time or costs.

It depends on the age of the machine. I find people are willing to pay for service and value the service if your present them with all of the options.

[Steve]

most people don't want to shell out over $100-150
I find the same thing, even with customers who own $1000 computers. That's about a two hour charge. I haven't found to many things that I'll charge more than two hours for. Frankly, for spyware, if it's going to take anywhere near two hours to clean up a machine, I'd rather backup and reinstall.

As far as the $500 computer goes, if you have pucrchased one of these and run into a problem that will set you back $200, it doesn't make sense (to me at least) to shell out another $500 to avoid a $200 bill. Some folks think this way, though.

[Variable]

Classic is right. Once people have data on the computer they don't want to lose, the hardware cost benefit analysis goes out the window. Time is money, you make money off fixing software not hardware...I charge 40 for residential and 80 for commercial when i am doing fixes off hours. At work we charge a hundred per hour.
Buying a new machine does not replace an existing machine in most cases because it isn't the hardware that most people use... it is the software and data on the existing machine. They may outgrow a machine but they will want the same data on the new one. A seamless upgrade makes for a happy customer, happy customers are willing to shell out the cash it costs to make it seamless, in my experience.