Buying advice for new comp

[Steve-0]

Hello everyone, I'm interested in buying a new comp, but I need your advice to see if it's good enough. Okay, my old comp which I'm using now has become outdated. It was built by myself, my brother, and my uncle in 2003. It has a AMD Athlon 1.8 Ghz processor, a Radeon 9000 Gfx card, 512 MB RAM, and a 40 GB hard drive. It runs awesome on high graphics and resolution for UT2003, UT2004, and Unreal 2. But, Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 are a problem. In HL2, it can only run on Medium settings (I hate low!) but on 1024x800 resolution. There are frequent audio stutters and 2-3 minute loading times. On Doom 3, the same problem occurs. There are 3 main reasons why I want to buy a new comp:

1) More hard drive space. The old comp only has 40 GB, and HL2 and Doom 3 take about 15 GB each, while other games and processes take up another 15 GB, so I'm only left with 10 GB, and games today need 5-15 GB to run.

2) Windows XP. I have a burned copy of XP Professional so the registration codes aren't valid, so I can't download SP2 and other security updates, which makes me vulnerable to hacker threats.

3) Too much money to do a regular upgrade. A new processor, Gfx card, hard drive, memory stick, new copy of Windows XP, and motherboard is just too much money and I don't want to spend that much.

So, when I was looking around at CompUSA for computers, I found one model that got my attention. The eMachines T6212 MiniTower model. This model comes with a Athlon 2.2 Ghz 64-Bit processor, 160 GB Hard Drive spaces, 512 MB RAM, and 3 Drives (I think 3 drives) for only $600.

Now for the Gfx card, the Radeon XPRESS 200 isn't going to be enough for HL2 and D3. I was thinking of buying the Radeon X850 XT Gfx card for only $400 at CompUSA. Is this a good Gfx card to buy? Will it last me 1-2 years?

Also, I'm going to need more RAM of the new comp, so I was thinking of buying another 512 MB memory stick for $80 so I can have 1 GB total. Should I buy a 512 MB? A 1 GB memory stick?

So, with the RAM and Gfx card upgrades, is this comp good overall. Many people gave 4/5 or 5/5, and said to only upgrade the RAM and Gfx card. There's other things the comp comes with like 7 USB ports, a FireWire port, and it comes with free Microsoft software like Word and Office. Overall, should I buy the eMachines T6212 model with these upgrades? Or is there another comp you recommend that's below $1000? Any info will be fine and thank you for letting me ask these questions.

[pop pop]

I'm going to bite my toungue here a bit and just paste a CNET review of that box/bundle (and maybe one or two comments :p ). Others will likely chime in. They have a good idea what I think.

From CNET:

The good:
Fast memory; 64-bit AMD processor, PCI Express graphics slot; media-card reader; smart software bundle.

The bad:
Cannot be customized at time of purchase; below-average performance; phone support requires toll and is not 24/7.

What's it for:
Running basic office apps and some multimedia tasks, such as editing photos, ripping MP3s, and burning DVDs.

Who's it for:
Budget buyers looking for a plain old, general-purpose PC.

The bottom line:
The well-designed eMachines T6212 has all the features you'd want on a budget PC but is held back by its substandard performance.

From me:

At least it is upgradeable after you buy it as is.

As for this: free Microsoft software like Word and Office You better check again. The Office Suite is an expensive throw in. More likely what is thrown is is MS Works.

[jlreich]

If you have a budget of $1000, and have build experience, you can do much better upgrading than what the Emachine will give you.

If all you need is:

Mobo - $150(non SLI)-$200(SLI) for a high quality mobo
CPU-AMD64 3500 2.2Ghz - $270 or a AMD64 3000 for $150 that will do you just fine.
1GB ram 2x512 pc3200 - less than $100
160GB SATA HDD - under $100
XP pro OEM - $150

If you want the 3500, your looking at about $770, leaving $200 for a decent video card.

If you go for the 3000, your looking at about $650, leaving plenty of room for a good video card.

This is assuming your PSU and case are sufficient.

Just my thoughts. :)

[saphalline]

I wholeheartedly agree with the others here. Where are you getting the idea that upgrading your current system would cost more than $1000? Aren't you shopping online? Also, a few things on that eMachines T6212:

The RAM is 2 x 256MB (for dual-channel) so if you want to upgrade the RAM and keep dual-channel on (yes!! for games!!) then you'll need to buy two more sticks of RAM. Not just one.

It comes with WinXP Home, not Pro. I like Pro better. It has a lot of nice admin and networking features built into it, as well as supporting things like HT out-of-the-box. IMO, XP Home isn't a real OS!

Check that "stellar" hard drive again! Yes, it's 160GB, but it only has a 2MB cache? What's up with that? It isn't an ATA drive, is it!? SATA is the way to go these days, and they come with an 8MB cache! Much better performance!

What chipset does it use? The eMachines site won't tell me, and the chipset choice is very important for a gaming system! A good chipset will enable your games to fly, while a bad one will slow them down! Do you know which chipset it uses? Do you know which ones are the best? Do you know which core revision Athlon64 is in there? Do you know about the two socket types for the Athlon64?

Finally, do you know about the insane power & cooling requirements for today's high-end vid cards? I seriously doubt that little eMachines T6212 has a good enough PSU to handle the Radeon X850XT, and I know it doesn't have the cooling necessary to keep it from overheating and locking up your games! It might be able to run the Radeon X600XT, however...

The bottom line here is that while you may technically be able to fit upgrade parts into that eMachines T6212, that doesn't mean it will work! Computers are just barely complex enough that you can't just slap together any parts you want. You also have to make sure that proper accomodations have been made for power, cooling, performance, and stability. Are you really going to rely on the eMachines' system designers to say "hey, we better put 2 extra case fans into our low-end $600 T6212, just in case someone wants to upgrade the vid card to a Radeon X850XT"?

[Steve-0]

O.K, I think I'm just going to upgrade the comp I have now. I was just wondering if that Mobo motherboard (with SLI) would be good. Can anyone give me a breakdown on it and tell what it can do. It looks good, but does it have a cooling fan that can handle the X850 XT? I was also wondering if I buy a brand new version of Windows XP, will it automatically have SP2 and the security updates on it? Or if not, will the new code erase over the old, burned code? I'll probably buy the Athlon 3500+ 2.2 Ghz and upgrade it later. I think I'll go with the X850 XT, and get the 1 GB memory stick. Thanks guys, I had doubts about the eMachines T6212 b/c it just wouldn't work as a gaming machine. Oh, and also, does anyone know if there's a good site where I can buy computer components at a low price? Thanks!

[Bullman]

If you are from the USA, Newegg (http://www.newegg.com) is one of the best. I have heard some good things about Zipzoomfly (http://www.zipzoomfly.com) (I have never used them though) also. I have used newegg for a couple years now and have not had to return one thing, and you get quick shipping also. :D

[saphalline]

I was just wondering if that Mobo motherboard (with SLI) would be good. Can anyone give me a breakdown on it and tell what it can do. It looks good, but does it have a cooling fan that can handle the X850 XT?Huh? Mobo's don't have cooling devices for the vid card (or any expansion card). The vid card has its own, and you'll also need good overall system cooling for your case. Also, there are several SLI mobo's on the market, not just one. The SLI part refers to the special NVidia SLI (scalable link interface) technology where two vid cards can be used in the same system to theoretically double gaming performance. But it's only for NVidia's PCIe SLI-enabled vid cards (6600 GT, 6800 GT, 6800 Ultra) and they can only be used on mobo's with NVidia's NForce4 SLI chipset (which also comes in a P4 flavor!). So if you want to use ATI's Radeon X850 XT, you wouldn't want to pay extra for SLI that you won't be able to use!

NVidia's NForce4 SLI chipset supports the latest trends, including: PCIe (x16, x16 + x8, x4, x1), 10 USB 2.0 ports, 4 x SATA 2.0, GbE, firmware firewall for GbE, support for all current Athlon64's and Semprons, and support for the upcoming dual-core Athlon64 X2's. As I've said, its SLI feature (x16 + x8) can only be used by certain SLI-enabled NVidia vid cards. If you want the Radeon X850 XT specifically, then I'd suggest moving down to the little brother chipset NForce4 Ultra (which is also much cheaper and won't require a new PSU).

If you need some more info on these subjects, just let me know. It's just that right now I can't tell how much you know or don't know about the latest tech. Hardware changes constantly! Only a few of us can keep up (which actually takes a lot of my time!).

[Steve-0]

Ah, I didn't know what the SLI meant. I looked at the NForce 4 Ultra and it looks very good. I'm probably gonna go with the NForce 4 Ultra and keep with the Radeon X850 XT Gfx card. Should I get a cooling case or new cooling fan when I get these parts? Here's the comp specs if I got all these upgrades:

-Athlon 3500+ 2.2 Ghz processor
-Radeon X850 XT Gfx card
-NForce 4 Ultra motherboard
-160 GB SATA HDD
-1GB RAM 2x512 PC3200
-New version of Windows XP
-Cooling case or new cooling fan (possible)

Do you think this comp with the upgrades will last 2-3 years until I have to upgrade again (gaming wise)? Thanks again and I'll check out newegg.com.

[i an not a nerd]

About SLI, only Nvida cards support that.

SLI was used by Voodoo cards...a long time ago...

OK, about the vid card, do you really need an X850? You can save money by getting a X800 XL, and get better RAM. A good set is: http://www.mushkin.com/doc/products/memory_detail.asp?ID=15

[i an not a nerd]

Oh and Saph. the Nforce 4 Ultra has the same as the SLI version, the one difference is the lack of 2 pciex16 slots.

Steve-0, if you were to get a multi vid card setup, I would wait for ATIs chipset to come out. It has an advantage of using the full 16 pipelines per card, where the Nvidia setup can only use 8 of the pipelines per card.

[Steve-0]

O.K, so then what's a good motherboard that supports ATI gfx cards and uses them to their full potential? If there aren't any, then will will the ATI chipsets come out?

[Steve-0]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135191

I was just wondering if this motherboard would work with ATI Radeon X800's and above. This motherboard also supports AMD Athlon's 64-bit technology processors so this is a plus for me. Any info will be fine and thanks again!

[i an not a nerd]

Well, the multigraphics chipset is still in developement...its gonna be awhile until the chipset comes out, mobo chipset and vid cards.

About that mobo, it will work with the X800 line, its a microatx, so your gonna have lots of free space in your case.

For now, two good mobos are the MSI NEO4 Platinum (mine) and the DFI LANPARTY UT Ultra-D.

[Steve-0]

Alright, I've come to a final choice in buying these upgrades. Here they are:

- AMD Athlon 3500+ 2.2 Ghz processor
- ATI Radeon X850 XT Gfx card
- MSI K8N Neo Platinum (without SLI) motherboard
- 160 GB SATA HDD
- 1GB (2x512MB) XP3200 2-2-2
- Windows XP Professional
- Keep soundcard, keyboard, monitor, and mouse

Once the ATI chipsets come out, I'll probably upgrade to those, but for now, I'll keep the Mobo motherboard. Hopefully the ATI chipsets will come out around Christmas. So what do you guys think of these upgrades? Are they O.K? Any comments? Thanks again!

[Steve-0]

Scratch that last post. Now I finally have some more info on the computer market today, and I've done some more research, looking around on Newegg, asking people, and reading articles, and now, I've come to these upgrades, and I just want your opinion on them and if I should change anything. O.K. here they are:

-ATI X800 XL $279-300

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814131414

-Mushkin 1GB (2x512MB) XP3200 RAM= $197

http://www.mushkin.com/doc/products/memory_detail.asp?ID=15

-AMD Athlon 3500+ 64-bit 2.2 Ghz= $267

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103514

-Seagate Barracuda 250 GB ATA HDD= $127!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148062

-ASUS K8V AMD mobo= $79
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131513

-Windows XP Professional Edition= $150

One quick question I have is if I have to get the 64 bit edition of XP Professional. Will the Athlon processor still work without the XP 64 bit software? Thanks! Post any comments or suggestions please.

[penguin]

yes it will but wait for windows LONGHORN cause it will come out not very long after XP x64 and would be better because when M$ came out wit XP EVERYTHING switched to XP like wmp10 and other programs and LONGHORN will be 64 bit

[pop pop]

The AMD will work just fine with XP Pro. XP Pro 64 offers no advantages at this time, IMHO, and in fact, has major disadvantages-- namely lack of drivers and 32-bit application incompatibilities. Go with XP Pro. That way, when the time is right (driver and applications available), you should be able to trade in your XP Pro license for a 64 bit license.

[i an not a nerd]

XP Pro is the way to go for now, the 64bit edition creates more problems than it solves right now.

[penguin]

really the 64 bit dosent look any different from what ive heard

[Steve-0]

Alright, I'm all set to buy then. I'm goin with XP Pro for now, and keepin everything else. Thanks for all the help again guys!