no boot

[thewoozy]

Hi Folks,
i'm new to the group. i have a system my grandson and i built as a project. we have an AMD 1.2GHZ w/266FSB processor mounted on a MSI (microstar) K-7 MASTER motherboard. we have 256MB of micron DDR, PC2100, ECC SDRAM. we have a 450 watt enermax power supply. the video card is MSI 64MB. the sound card is soundblaster SB LIVE. OS is windows 2000 PRO.
PROBLEM - about a week ago, the system froze up and i had to re-set to get it going again. during this re-boot, it went through all its' paces until the very end then restarted itself again. however, this time NOTHING appeared on the monitor screen, NOTHING happened on the motherboard - EXCEPT, the power led was on, the HDD activity led was on, the cd-rom R+RW led was on and all 6 fans inside the case were running. there are 2 on the lower front intake, there is 1 midway up the rear, there is 1 on the CPU and there are 2 on the power supply.
i have a still new-in-box motherboard (identical to the one being used) and i swapped motherboards - no changes. HOWEVER, the motherboard is equipped with self diagnostic LED's. when power is applied to the system, and a boot attempt is made, all 4 led's turn red and remain in that state.
i removed the motherboard from the case - completely and removed it from the slide-in. i then laid the motherboard on a piece of 1X10 board. i left the memory card in, the video card and the sound card. i tried to boot up again - this would have eliminated a short from the motherboard to the case. no change.
i then removed the memory card, the video card and sound card and tried to boot again. no change - still all red led's.
i have deduced the problem to be a faulty processor. does anyone have any other ideas as to what it could possibly be or some other process of elimination.
the computer will boot without the memory, video card and sound card, won't it?

[bassman]

Hello thewoozy,
First thing I think of is, read your manule and see what 4 steady red LEDs means. Yes the machine will come on with no RAM or vid, but it won't do much. Some will even shut back down.
Do you by chance have another power supply? Even one with considerably less wattage? You don't need to plug in everything in the case to test this.
At bare minimum you will have RAM and vid cards in place.
Your other post said this machine has been working for 10 months. Were there any other signs before this happened, slowed performance, blue screens, invalid page faults, hard starts, did you need to pump the gas peddle more than 10 times (oh wait, thats for workin on old Chevys http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif )

Let us know how this goes http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/cool.gif

------------------
A real Christian is one who can give his pet parrot to the town gossip.
Frank's Place (http://dreamwater.net/tech/frankscomp/)

[sea69]

good idea on the manUAL- lol bassman.. "manule"

and another PS was also what I was thinking about.

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

[thewoozy]

Originally posted by bassman:
Hello thewoozy,
First thing I think of is, read your manule and see what 4 steady red LEDs means. Yes the machine will come on with no RAM or vid, but it won't do much. Some will even shut back down.
Do you by chance have another power supply? Even one with considerably less wattage? You don't need to plug in everything in the case to test this.
At bare minimum you will have RAM and vid cards in place.
Your other post said this machine has been working for 10 months. Were there any other signs before this happened, slowed performance, blue screens, invalid page faults, hard starts, did you need to pump the gas
peddle more than 10 times (oh wait, thats for workin on old Chevys http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif )

Thanks for the response.
no, i have not had a moments trouble with the machine until now. matter of fact, i was really proud of what my grandson and i put together - still am for that matter. only thing is, i have had intel processors since 1989 and never a moments problem with them. i have an AMD for 10 months and i think it has gone belly-up.
the led's on the card; according to MSI'S manual, it states that if you have 4 red lights then the processor is not installed properly or not working properly. personally, i believe it ain't working properly - like not at all~laughing~.
to the power supply, i am knowlegeable about electricity and i have the means to test the voltages but i need some sort of procedure for doing the tests otherwise the readings i get won't mean much to me. procedure, not hard to tell i'm from a corporate environment huh.~laughing~
re: the old chevy, i just put a clutch in my gmc truck - another grandson project, after it was complete and we test drove it, when you accelerated hard, the valves rattled like crazy. i checked the timing (could not imagine how in the hell changing the clutch affected the timing). timing was 3 degrees BTDC. that was spec. problem was in the KNOCK SENSOR. the knock sensor screws into the block into the water passage. the knock sensor sends a signal to the ESC module (electronic spark control) which sends a signal to the computer to adjust the timing. well, the problem was we had knocked the wire off the KNOCK SENSOR from under the truck.

Let us know how this goes http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/cool.gif

[ranchdog]

I don't see the processor causing your system to freeze in the beginning... If the processor croaked you would get a blank screen.

Something (after 10 months) along the lines of a heat problem or
PSU heat? Maybe the video card getting hot.

Do you have a stick of Non ECC memory you could try?


Luck.

------------------
....How long is a minute... depends on which side of the Bathroom door you're on. ......
..........

[thewoozy]

okay, but if the video card is the culprit, then it should still boot. am i correct? also, if i let the machine sit for 24 hours or more, the video card should be cool enough to boot then.
no matter how long i let it sit, it will not do anything at all on boot up. also, it should boot with no memory at all.
what i am saying is that nothing at all, happens when i power up and hit the start button - except the 4 red led's on the motherboard come on.

[iisbob]

it should boot with no memory at all.

No, it shouldn't. You need at bare minimum memory, video, and a cpu. This does sound like a bad CPU to me, do yo have another one too try?

This seems to be the common element in your troubleshooting-same cpu.

AMD's are very supceptible to heat damage-you must have a proper heatrsink/fan for them to function. It's possible that your HS/F stopped working, this would cause a hard crash-and fry your cpu, meaning no boot.

If you can get ahold of a new cpu-make sure you use a good qaulity HS/F on it before booting.



------------------
iisbob

Computer-Show me the Enterprise; no bloody A, no bloody B, and no bloody C-just the original...Mr Scott { from a STNG episode }

[thewoozy]

just a point for my clarification - MSI (microstar) told me that it would boot with no memory at all and no video. i don't think it will boot up to a run state but according to them it should boot. i'm not disagreeing with you but quoting them.
since most everything was purchased new "RETAIL", the processor has a 3 year warranty. i shipped it to AMD last Wed. and it is scheduled for delivery to them tomorrow. they wanted the heat sink and fan also. they are going to test the processor (or so they say) and if it is defective, they will send me a new one. if they find nothing wrong with the processor, they will ship mine back to me.
the motherboard has integrated video and audio. if i could get into the bios i could enable both of them and remove the cards. however, nothing at all happens when i press the start button - other than all 6 fans start running.
thanks for your attention and responses.

[iisbob]

As usual most of the tech support people you talk to on the phone are illiterate in PC's, they usually go by a written script and are only required to answer the phone.

If it doesn't get to the BIOS recognizing any of the hardware, then it hasn't " booted ".

Yes, it will power up-but if it's not loading the BIOS to recognize any of your systems' hardware, then it hasn't " booted ".

The term Boot comes from the old saying " by the boot straps.." and in the old Univac days there actually was a mechanical device used to " boot " the system up. The term is still with us today.





------------------
iisbob

Computer-Show me the Enterprise; no bloody A, no bloody B, and no bloody C-just the original...Mr Scott { from a STNG episode }