Movie capturing, editing, making, and burning

[killercow]

I'm not sure what category this should have gone in because it could have fit in buying and upgrading advice, multimedia, storage, and peripherals. So I hope this was the best choice.

Anyways, a few of my friends and myself have an idea to create a movie. We've made a few movies by recording directly onto a VHS from a bulky, extremely out-dated camera which created movies that didn't have good sound, quality, or transitions... well just about everything about it stunk. We have about 20 people who are going to be acting or doing something else with this movie. Even a friend's band is willing to record some of the soundtrack. My dad also wishes to burn a DVD containing about 100 pictures from a family reunion with music in the background.

Now onto the reason of my post...
I need a DVD burner that can burn quickly and in high quality. I need software to edit and burn. We have a camera that records onto those miniature tapes, but I'd rather digitally record them so I don't have to transfer to a VHS then transfer to .avi.

I am currently downloading the trial version of Adobe Premiere Elements. I have no background with any kind of video software, however I am quite handy with Adobe Photoshop 7, so I know Adobe is reliable. It is $99 and seems like it should do what I need, but I don't know for sure.

So I need advice on a DVD burner, Software, and an inexpensive camera that can record digitally and be able to help us make a 'nice' quality movie.

Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks.

[superdrumr]

Camera: Any mini-dv camera will give you perfectly acceptable results and let you transfer the movie to your computer via firewire.

DVD-Burner: Again, any quality, brand name burner will do the job. For the best ones look for one that is "16X Dual Format DVD+-RW" and also "Dual Layer"

Software: There are many reviews of video editing packages available, depending on what you are willing to spend and how advanced you want, will decide the software to buy. The higher end would be something like Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5, expensive and complex, but powerful. If you just want a very basic program for cuting and pasting different scenes, Windows XP has a very basic editer built in.

[jcnoernberg]

you can't really burn a DVD over 4X currently, anything higher would be unstable anyhow, and dual layered DVDs are a fortune right now. So those aren't really requirements.

A mini-dv camcorder will give you ok results, but it ain't ever gonna look professional, its gonna look like it was done on a camcorder... which may be ok for you... if you really wanted that film look, you would need to get a camera that shot in 24p, which would be the equivalent to any of those cameras you see making documentaries/reality shows on tv. high def, and 3ccd wouldnt hurt either... but be prepared to spend like 3000 dollars. why not have everyone chip in $100 bucks and buy you a camera? :)

then theres the whole other aspect... your video workstation...

[killercow]

you can't really burn a DVD over 4X currently, anything higher would be unstable anyhow, and dual layered DVDs are a fortune right now. So those aren't really requirements.

A mini-dv camcorder will give you ok results, but it ain't ever gonna look professional, its gonna look like it was done on a camcorder... which may be ok for you... if you really wanted that film look, you would need to get a camera that shot in 24p, which would be the equivalent to any of those cameras you see making documentaries/reality shows on tv. high def, and 3ccd wouldnt hurt either... but be prepared to spend like 3000 dollars. why not have everyone chip in $100 bucks and buy you a camera? :)

then theres the whole other aspect... your video workstation...
Yea, the only thing is that there's three people heading this... so that's $300. If every single person who contributes to this movie gave money then that wouldn't be a problem.

I looked around and found this camera:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6955431&type=product&productCategoryId=cat04015&id=1099382934681

Anyone know anything about it?

[pentachris]

Low light performance is horrible on the Samsung camcorders. Keep in mind that an average living room with sunlight coming in through a window and maybe a table lamp turned on is considered "low light."

At this price range, I'd look at the JVC models, or maybe even a Sony Digital-8 camcorder.

Lots of well written camcorder reviews here (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/). This page (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/2004-CamInfo-Select-Best-Camcorder-Under-$400.htm) may be of interest to you although it's a little out of date; it was published in late October and new models from most brands were released earlier this year - around February or March, I think.

edit - also, check out new buyer's tips here (http://www.easycamcorders.com/content/Beginners-Guide.htm); there's a section that undersores what I said about low light performance

[killercow]

Low light performance is horrible on the Samsung camcorders. Keep in mind that an average living room with sunlight coming in through a window and maybe a table lamp turned on is considered "low light."

At this price range, I'd look at the JVC models, or maybe even a Sony Digital-8 camcorder.

Lots of well written camcorder reviews here (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/). This page (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/2004-CamInfo-Select-Best-Camcorder-Under-$400.htm) may be of interest to you although it's a little out of date; it was published in late October and new models from most brands were released earlier this year - around February or March, I think.

edit - also, check out new buyer's tips here (http://www.easycamcorders.com/content/Beginners-Guide.htm); there's a section that undersores what I said about low light performance
Thanks a lot for the links, that helps a lot. I'll look into those JVCs.

[killercow]

Ok, I've been reading reviews and looking at prices... I'm looking for one under $350 and the best I could find was here:
http://www.electronics-expo.com/product.jsp?x=PVGS12&zipz=11001

remember, I know nothing about cameras and am not sure of what most of the stuff means in the description.
Should this camera do what we need... that is -record video -record sound (mic possibly) -Record digitally -be able to be easily transfered to a computer for editing -quality video (not HIGH quality, remember the $$$ factor, but enough for a bunch of 16-year-olds who want to make a movie)

Does this look like what we should get?

[saphalline]

you can't really burn a DVD over 4X currently, anything higher would be unstable anyhow, and dual layered DVDs are a fortune right now. So those aren't really requirements.This is all true for right now, but technology changes! The real issue here is that you can buy a high quality, dual-format, dual-layer capable, fast DVD burner for about $50-70. This is not more expensive than the older DVD burners that can't do any of these things, so why not go for a burner that will be able to handle future media? It's the same upgrade mentality for all computer hardware - spend 5% more money for tons more upgrade potential!

As far as the software goes, some retail packages of DVD burners come with entry-level editing software. Usually the basic version of Ulead Movie Factory, like
this NEC burner (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827152050) for $58 including shipping. You can test this bundled stuff against the more advanced Adobe Premier Elements to see what you get for your money.

I'm no camera expert, so I can't help out there, but one thing nobody has gone in-depth on is the hardware in your intended editing workstation. Only jcnoernberg has even mentioned this! My min specs for a video editing computer are: 2GHz or equivalent CPU, 512MB RAM (1GB DDR recommended), and 7200rpm hard drive (SATA hard drive recommended) for the basics. You'll also need tons of free hard drive space! 10GB min for playing around, and don't be surprised if you have to buy another hard drive just for your movies! To get your raw footage into the computer, you'll either need a camcorder that can connect directly to it (via USB or firewire) or you'll need an analog capture device. Basic PCI devices can run as low as $40, with better quality external devices running upwards of $80-100. The cheap ones will do fine in most cases, but I like the external ones for their portability and circuit isolation (reduces noise). You can also use a vid card with a built-in TV tuner (like ATI's All-in-Wonder series) but the quality of those TV tuners is severely lacking.

The money adds up quickly, but I'm afraid there's no other way around it. Digital video editing requires a lot of stuff!

[pentachris]

I assume you've read the review (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-PV-GS12-Camcorder-Review.htm) for that camera. Looks fairly decent for the price!

Check this out, though... A factory refurbished JVC GR-D33 (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/jvc-gr-d33-camcorder-review.htm) at overstock.com for $255 (http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PRODUCT&PROD_ID=849785&cid=25608&fp=F). That'll save you a little money for a tripod or monopod - you'd be surprised at how shaky your hands really are trying to steady a two pound camera at full zoom for a few minutes.

[pentachris]

You'll also need tons of free hard drive space! 10GB min for playing around, and don't be surprised if you have to buy another hard drive just for your movies! To get your raw footage into the computer, you'll either need a camcorder that can connect directly to it (via USB or firewire) or you'll need an analog capture device.
An hour of video in DV-AVI format is around 13-1/2 GB! :eek:

All miniDV camcorders have firewire - this is the best way to get your video to your computer. USB 1 just doesn't have the bandwidth, and USB 2 camcorders are just coming out - there aren't that many of them. Firewire cards are pretty cheap on newegg.

[killercow]

An hour of video in DV-AVI format is around 13-1/2 GB! :eek:

All miniDV camcorders have firewire - this is the best way to get your video to your computer. USB 1 just doesn't have the bandwidth, and USB 2 camcorders are just coming out - there aren't that many of them. Firewire cards are pretty cheap on newegg.

I have some firewire ports that came with my motherboard and a few that are on the front of my case... so that's 1 thing down.

My dad offered to by the DVD burner (I think I already said that), and he wanted to get it from circuit city (even though I told him newegg would be MUCH cheaper), so we got a Sony DRU-710A. I've heard good good things about it. That's 2 things down.

My computer is running at 2.2 ghz with 1gb dual channel ram, two 40 gig hard drives with 2 partitions on each. 2 of the 4 partitions have under 5gb left but the other 2 each have 15gb or more available... thats 3 things down...

We have a tripod (to my parents camera from the stone age :p )... that's 4

I assume you've read the review for that camera. Looks fairly decent for the price!

Check this out, though... A factory refurbished JVC GR-D33 at overstock.com for $255. That'll save you a little money for a tripod or monopod - you'd be surprised at how shaky your hands really are trying to steady a two pound camera at full zoom for a few minutes.
Is a refurbished camera OK to buy? I've usually been warned against buying refurbished... but if it saves some money that's fine by me. That's 5...

I think that leaves me with software left. I'm looking at Adobe Premiere Elements $99; or for a really low-end, low-budget software there's Windows Movie Maker $0

Thanks for all the help! :)

EDIT:::
Also, would it be worth while to pay $20 more and get http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?page=proframe&prod_id=885044 from overstock.com, which seems to have more capabilities.

[pentachris]

Well, there's definitely a risk when you purchase a refurbished item. Personally, I like to get new stuff unless I can see and hold it before I buy it. I'm not good at dealing with companies when I get a raw deal; my wife, on the other hand, always seems to get what she wants, even if she has to get ugly with them. I guess it depends on your personality.

I've got a feeling you're going to want more hard drive space before long...

After a bit of research, I chose Sony Vegas Movie Studio (http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/Products/ShowProduct.asp?PID=932) for editing. I've heard that Premiere Elements and the comparable Pinnacle software are less stable and more prone to crashing.

[killercow]

I've got a feeling you're going to want more hard drive space before long...

Definately... I've already filled up an enitre 40gb hard drive with my graphic stuff (web design, graphic design, photoshop and illustrator digital art, and such) and am waiting to order a 4x5 wacom tablet. So more hard drive space will be a must if I enter the realm of videos.

Thanks for the help... I think that since we have 3 or 4 people contributing ~$50-60 on this it wouldn't be a huge set-back if it broke in 6 months or so.

[saphalline]

Hard drives are dirt cheap these days. You can get a 160GB SATA with NCQ for under $100! :eek: 120GB is down below $80! So you have no reason to be dragging along with two 40GB drives! :p

[killercow]

Hard drives are dirt cheap these days. You can get a 160GB SATA with NCQ for under $100! :eek: 120GB is down below $80! So you have no reason to be dragging along with two 40GB drives! :p
:eek: ... wow, I've been away from these forums for too long! I'll have to go make a different thread about hard drives... but quick question...
Can I have my 2 IDE 40gbs and a SATA hard drive all running at the same time?

[pentachris]

Can I have my 2 IDE 40gbs and a SATA hard drive all running at the same time?
Yes, no problem there.

[saphalline]

As long as you have a SATA port on your mobo, yes. You can run as many hard drives as you have controllers to support them! Modern systems can handle anywhere from 8 to 14 drives! :eek: There's no problem as far as your computer goes for running that many drives, but you may soon run out of case space and power! :p

[alex666]

I've been following this thread with interest because I am just beginning to do so video processing on my system. So I thought I'd briefly share my experience.

My problem was converting analog tape to digital. I ended up getting the Turtle Beach Video Advantage PCI system, which is an add-in card for both analog and digital video plus audio, plus it includes a front plate so you can do all this without going to the back of your computer, plus the best manual I've seen in years. It also includes a firewire port, and for those who do not have firewire on their mobo, it's a great way to install firewire to your system. I have another way of inputting analog video, but I was totally frustrated with the available software (MovieMaker 2, Nero). I even downloaded a trial version of Vegas, but for some reason I cannot remember it did not allow me to use it. The Turtle Beach system comes with Cyberlink PowerDirector 3, a full version, plus several other programs. Tom's Hardware guide said that basically the quality of the software makes this a great package, while the pci card itself is merely adequate. I don't know about that, but in two days I've already inputted and easily edited with effects 4 videos. Great software. There is a newer version of PowerDirector now, but version 3 is up to snuff.

Re. hardware, yeah, large and good hard drives are inexpensive today, especially if you purchase them from reputable on-line dealers like Newegg. I also concur about careful consideration about whether your hardware is up to snuff, i.e., your cpu, memory, etc. Video processing definitely taxes your system's resources.

marty