HELP my computer freezes after use

[David Oh]

let me start off my telling everyone the specs on my computer.

Athlon XP 1800
ECS motherboard K7VTA3 (kt266a chipset)
512 mb 2100 ddram
geforce 3 card
a 30 and 40 gig maxtor hard drive
windows xp professional edition

What I wanted to do was replace my stock coolermaster heatsink/fan with a heatsink from thermalright sk6 with a 7300rpm fan. The reason I wanted to do this was because I made the mistake of getting a cheap case.

The temperatures always ran hot (well into the 55-60 celsius range) and my computer always froze when it got that hot. I noticed it got hot especially when I play counterstrike or any other 3d first person shooter.

I, being the newbie that I am, had my friend put it in the thermalright sk6 for me. What he failed to do was put the fan right. He basically had it facing the wrong direction. To make matters worse, he was really struggling to put the new heatsink on when he tried to clamp it on with a screwdriver. Needless to say, he rammed my motherboard a couple of times with that screwdriver.

Anyhow, when my friend tried to power it up with the fan in the wrong direction, I was in my bios looking at my temperature steadily go up. I knew I was in trouble when I couldn't even boot any more because it got so hot. He then tried to use both the adhesive that came with the heatsink and the thermal paste, which i found out the hard way that's not what you're supposed to do. when he powered it up, it immediately seized up and the motherboard shut down. i panicked thinking we fried the system.

The next day after talking to the salesperson where i bought my heatsink, i realized my friend had the fan pointing in the right direction. I reversed the fan and I was happy to then able to boot it up and have the computer run. At that point it seemed to run okay. Even the temperatures seemed to hold steady. I ran counter-strike, and that's where I realized I was in trouble. After about 5 mins of play time, the computer completely froze, to the point where my mouse cursor wouldn't move and I was forced to reboot the computer with the power switch instead of a warm reboot. I then observed it running in the desktop environment. I knew I was in trouble when even just running a screen saver, it froze.

Out of desperation I tried reformatting my hard disk. EVEN my boot disk froze during reformatting my hard disk. I at that point knew something was wrong. I kept trying the reformat, noticing I was able to format further in the install when the computer had been cooled down. When I finally had one successful install, I get a warning message saying there are some damage to my hard disk. So I tried unplugging my main hard disk and tried to format my other hard disk.

I still kept freezing up. Finally after several tries, it finally completed the installation of my operation system. I did a chkdsk and found no errors on either hard disk. So I assume it's okay.

Initially it seemed fine, it wouldn't freeze up and the temperature seem to hold a steady 42-45 degrees celsius. I even was able to play counter-strike. However, after awhile when i ran counter-strike it started to lock up, and the strange thing was it started to lock up in the menu screen before i actually had a chance to play. When it did froze, it never did in the menu, only during actual game play.

Now I tried to get answers from other posts, (namely the one from Laura) to get answers.

My basic questions are:

1) Can my hardware be damaged and still be running? If so which part? my motherboard? my system ram? my graphics card? my cpu? my hard disk?

2) If my hardware is damaged, what would the easiest way to diagnose which hardware is the one that is damaged? I don't want to go run out and buy a new motherboard and chip for nothing, which is what I am assuming is the damaged hardware.

3) I clearly believe it's a heating issue. But can a system be damaged to where it is more prone to locking up because prior to this my computer only froze when it hit temperatures in the 55-60 celsius degree range. Now it seems to lock up even if it's at 45 degrees celsius.

4) I NEED HELP PLEASE!!!!!!!!!


any ideas anyone? I would greatly appreciate it.

[ski]

Remove the heat sink, remove all of the thermal adhesive/paste on both surfaces with oil-free nail polish remover, finish by cleaning all mating surfaces with high purity(90%+) isopropyl alcohol.
Then, check for any damage to or burn marks on the CPU die, damage to the CPU surrounding ceramic, the motherboard CPU socket, and the motherboard surface where the screwdriver contacted it. Replace the CPU if it's damaged or burned, replace the motherboard if the CPU socket is damaged or if the screwdriver scraped any embedded copper.
If nothing appears damaged or burned, then reapply only a thin layer of just the thermal paste(no adhesive), reinstall the heat sink, and check the operation. If it runs ok during normal applications(e-mailing, browsing the Web, standard programs, etc.) but locks up during intense gameplay, then remove the case cover and blow air onto the computer with an external fan. If this works, then install additional case fans.
If it locks up with an external fan, then it's possible that either the motherboard was damaged by the screwdriver contact or the CPU was damaged by high temps. The only way to check these 2 items is to swap them out or have them tested.

[ranchdog]

Suggestions:

(1) Don't allow your Friend to do any additional upgrades for you.

(2) Make sure that your 512MB of RAM is not some off-brand generic memory stick. For what you are trying to do w/your PC only top of the line RAM is going to function or it's Freeze Time.

(3) Do not plug that 7K Screamer for the Heatsink onto the Motherboard. It will only ruin the Fan header. And make the system not want to boot-up. Get yourself a pass thru connector and plug it into the PSU wiring harness.

(4) Re-Install of Windoz does not correct Hard Freeze. Serious drivers issues are a better place to investigate.

The SK-6 is not for someone who is in a hurry or careless. The hold-down clamp is one of the worst there is to deal with. That and the wire clips that secure the fan to the Heatsink.

The CPU is either going to work or it isn't. There isn't an in between.

Case temperature problem.... Definitely. RAM is getting hot. Video card is getting hot.

Does the K7VTA3 have a fan mounted on the Heatsink for the 266A chipset? Definitely need one there if you are going to push things with games.

Get back with us on how you are doing?

Luck.


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....How long is a minute... depends on which side of the Bathroom door you're on. ......
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[setoguro]

hi David
the first time I installed my thermalright sk6 I chiped my cpu and nailed my mb with a screwdriver. I cried like a baby just thinking about it brings a tear to my eye but anyway if you get back on the clip a little the screwdrive it will find a good secure position and won't slip off if your on the very end its going to slip off again. Practice a couple of times before you have that screwdriver poised over that motherboard. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif
good luck http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

[David Oh]

thanks for the suggestions everyone. here's the update, well, it's not the graphics card because i swapped it with an old riva2 card and it locks the same. so i guess it's probably the ram or maybe the board. i dunno yet.

but i had a question to ranchdog regarding the power source for the fan. i didn't understand your suggestion because i don't know what's a pass thru connector and a PSU wiring harness.

2nd, are u sure that a cpu either works or it doesnt? as i said, it's running at a temperature of 42-47max degrees celsius. before the heatsink swap, it would only lock up at 57-60 degrees. is it still too hot? and yes the heatsink has a 7300 rpm fan.

lastly, a question to ski, is there a way to have hardware tested?

again, everyone thank u for trying to help. i guess there are still kind and generous people out there.

[mjc]

PSU = Power Supply Unit

A pass through connector is one that hooks up to a power lead for a hard drive and has an adapter to run a fan.

Yes, there are special diagnostic devices that the better shops have, one is called a POST card, it plugs into a slot (usually a PCI slot, these days) and can diagnose (keep track of) all the codes generated during a POST routine (Power On Self Test).

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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.


[This message has been edited by mjc (edited 04-02-2002).]

[David Oh]

okay, understand the bit about pass through wire. but is it really necessary?

[BigBlue66]

Yes, it is necessary with the fan you're using. The fan draws a lot of juice, more than what the CPUFAN header on the motherboard can constantly supply. You might ruin the fan header on the motherboard, in which case, your fan won't run and fry your processor.

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This space reserved for highly intelligent observations and witty remarks.

This message has not been edited by BigBlue66.

[David Oh]

I assume a fan header is where the power source connects? besides the risk about burning the fan out, could the fan make the motherboard unstable since it's sucking a lot of juice away from it?

[David Oh]

to give everyone an update, i swapped cpus (i put an athlon xp 1900 chip in place of my 1800), and tried to see if it would stop locking up. unfortunately, not only did it lock up playing counter-strike, it locked up even more frequently. i checked the temps, and it was running a reasonable 45 degrees celsius. btw is 45 degrees celsius reasonable for athlon's or is that too hot? anyhow, i placed an order to get a new fan so that i have it powered directly from the power supply instead of through the motherboard. also, if a 7000 rpm fan is sucking too much power from a motherboard, can that cause it too crash more often? any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

[John0904]

Hi David.

“I assume a fan header is where the power source connects?”
A 7300 rpm fan will need its own power connection other than the fan header on the motherboard.
A 7300 rpm fan will draw a lot of power more so than the fan header on the motherboard can provide.


“besides the risk about burning the fan out, could the fan make the motherboard unstable since it's sucking a lot of juice away from it?”
The risk of the CPU fan burning is null. Connecting that type of fan to the fan header on the motherboard will burn out the fan header first.

But…depending of your PSU it will make your system unstable.

If I were to guess, it could be your PSU.
Check out this article and see if it helps. It is for the ECS K7S5A, but it should still apply.
http://www.ocworkbench.com/articles/psu/psup1.htm

Hope this helps.

[David Oh]

great, thank u for the great advice. im gonna first get that new fan to plug directly into the pcu. if that doesn't work, i'll try getting a new pcu. i currently have 300w pcu, should i get a 350w?

[VicodiN]

Originally posted by David Oh:
great, thank u for the great advice. im gonna first get that new fan to plug directly into the pcu. if that doesn't work, i'll try getting a new pcu. i currently have 300w pcu, should i get a 350w?

I would also go ahead a knock your friend in the head for not knowing what he's doing, yet doing it anyway



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Eat a yammy...

[David Oh]

very funny, but seriously though should i get a 350w pcu to replace my 300w ?

[John0904]

If you can afford it, get a 400w.
It's better to be over rather than to meet the requirement. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

[David Oh]

great i'll try to get a 400w. However as to my previous question, is running at 45 degrees celsius excessive? what's a good temperature range?
i literally had to gut my case of all the panels to get enough air flow to keep it running at 45.

To anyone ,any comments would greatly be appreciated..and to everyone thanks so far for all the help...
http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

[John0904]

A Athlon XP 1800 runs at 1.53 GHz.
I am running a Athlon 1.4 GHz and the temp runs between 45ºC under light load and 55ºC under heavy load.
I did try using a fan that ran at 7200 rpm and the temp ran between 35ºC and 40ºC under heavy load. But the noise was bothersome to say the least.

AMD recommends running the temp under 90ºC. Thermal Design (http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/24309.pdf)

AMD Athlon XP™ Processor Recommended Power Supplies (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869_4348^4376|49_ATX_XP,00.html)

Hope this helps.

[David Oh]

thanks for the info john. but i was surprised to read that u can get away with 55 degrees without freezing. that's just about where i freeze everytime.

[ski]

Considering that your freezing problems are occurring at lower CPU temperatures than previously, then I would suspect that the Athlon 1800+ CPU was damaged by overheating when the new heatsink was improperly installed initially.
Either swap it out, or have a shop test it.

[David Oh]

well i did swap it out with an athlon xp 1900 in place of my 1800 i bought at a local Fry's store. when i swapped it, i ran it, and guess what? it froze even more frequently when i loaded the chip (playing counter-strike as an example) what gives?

[John0904]

Athlons take a lot of power more so than Intels.
When you used the 1900 it just used a bit more power than the 1800 hence more lockups.
I would suspect if you dropped down to a 1 GHz, it would cause even less lockups.

Let's see what you are running.
Athlon XP 1800 / GeForce 3 / 2 hard drives.
You didn't mention if you have any CD drives along with any USB devices.
Also included is the mouse / keyboard / printer / and any PCI cards.

It all adds up. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

By the way, I thought if the CPU was damaged in any way, it just wouldn't work. No middle ground. I'm not sure on that. Never heard of a CPU being damaged, but still functional. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

[David Oh]

that's where my problem lies. i've heard both: one that the cpu like u said with either work or not. some others told me it can run damaged. i don't know what is true. the bottom line is that i swapped my athlon xp 1800 cpu for a 1900 cpu and it seized even more frequently, so i don't think it's my cpu either.

[David Oh]

arrggghhhhhh....just to give everyone an update, i installed a new 7000 rpm and plugged it directly to the power source. all was well over the past two weeks. i played my counterstrike without a hitch. even ran a copy of jedi knight ii without any problems as well. unfotunately, after downloading "soldier of fortune ii" demo, it started to freeze like crazy. the weird thing was that i checked my temp in my bio and it was only at 44-45 degrees celsius. too hot still? i suspect it probably is my ****** generic pcu at 300 watts. or could it simply be the demo because it is in its early stage of development?

[This message has been edited by Paleo Pete (edited 04-20-2002).]

[David Oh]

oh if anybody asks, i tried running soldier of fortune ii on much lower settings, and it still locks up.

[iisbob]

After closely reading your posts, i have two suggestions; Don't ever let your " friend " touch a computer again, and Get a new Power supply.

300watts is on the limit for your systems' noted hardware-but if it's been damaged, or overstressed-or a cheapo unit, it'll give you the kinda lockup problems you've been describing.

Get a new 400watt non-generic PS ( like Anatec ), this will not only provide power, but also condition the power so you system doesn't get brownouts or spikes.

I would also consider replacing the motherboard. I use a Thermaltake Volcano 6Cu at 4500 rpm's-iot keeps my Athlon XP 1700+ at 48*C or less no matter how much Quake/elite force/Flight sims i play.




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iisbob

Computer-Show me the Enterprise; no bloody A, no bloody B, and no bloody C-just the original...Mr Scott { from a STNG episode }

[David Oh]

thanks for your advice, unfortunately in the meantime i bought a 350w enermax pcu, is that enough?

[rond36]

Yes an enermax 350W PSU should do better.

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[David Oh]

im glad to hear it would do better, but do i need a 400w versus a 350w?

[mjc]

The Enermax should do you, it is one of the stronger 12 and 5V PSU on the market.

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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

[David Oh]

well, to give everyone an update, i just put in a 400w enermax to replace my 350w enermax. it runs soldier of fortune ii demo fine for awhile, then guess what? it freezes? DAMMMM

[David Oh]

another update, i bought a new stick of 512k ram, and guess what? yes, i still get lockup (mainly playing the soldier of fortune demo). what now?

[Steve48]

David,

Does it only freeze on that one game? If so, then it would appear that the demo game is flawed. Secondly, I havent read where if you opened your case and put a house fan next to it (house fan on)to see if that helps. Igf it does, then you need even more cooling, which to me suggests that the game is flawed if that is the only time it freezes.

Steve

[BigBlue66]

I have a couple of comments. First, I think your friend knackered the motherboard with the screwdriver. Check the motherboard where the screwdriver slipped. Are there any electrical traces there? If so, that could be the problem. You may need a different motherboard.

Secondly, do yourself a favor and get a different case that provides for better airflow. AMD recommends an intake fan in the bottom front and an exhaust fan, besides the PSU fan, in the rear up high right under the PSU and almost parallel with the processor. If you don't have that kind of airflow going on, then it's time to invest $50 in a new case. Check out the cases at www.newegg.com (http://www.newegg.com) or www.directron.com (http://www.directron.com) or www.kommax.com (http://www.kommax.com)

Good luck

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This space reserved for highly intelligent observations and witty remarks.

This message has not been edited by BigBlue66.

[David Oh]

as far as cooling goes, i think it's as cool as it's gonna get since i pretty much gutted my case of the covers. i'll try the fan though. as far as the crashing on the game, i didn't see anybody on the soldier of fortune ii boards that complain of crashing. my friend who installed it also does not complain of crashing. and as far as the motherboard is concerned, if it is damaged afterall, it's not a work or not work situation? meaning that it can run if damaged?

[David Oh]

please somebody reply.. bump!

[mjc]

Dave,

If it is only that one game then there is something about that game that doesn't like your system...either you driver versions (motherboard chipset, video, sound or a combination of them), there is actual damage to the motherboard (but that should show up as problems across the board, in everything you do), or the copy of it you have is in some way damaged or corrupted.

So basically you are left with:

A. Get a new motherboard
B. Get a new copy of the game
C. Replace your drivers, one device at a time until you find a set that works

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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

[David Oh]

HALLELUYAH!!!!!! I GOT IT TO WORK!!!!!. i finally bit the bullet and got a new motherboard. and guess what, i guess it was damaged after all because the new one can work with the software!!! YAY! THANKS EVERYONE FOR THE HELP.