Buy or Build

[panther_base]

I'm looking to either buy or build a new PC within the next 6-8 months and wanna get a head start and some info on what would be better for what I want.

This PC will be mainly used for gaming both online and off, the way it looks now it'll be more online gaming than off. So my question would be what PC setup, either pre-made or parts I would need, would give me the best gaming experience possible? I have and will always have either cable or DSL connection (can't go back to Dial-up after using these lol).
Also you should take into consideration that although I do have some technical skills if I build my own it'll be my first, and I do know how everything is put together I just don't know how the start up process goes.
My budget is $1500-$2000 U.S.

[panther_base]

ok nvm I haven't gotten a reply to my last 2 or 3 post here I do it myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LadyGrey]

Hello Panther,
In spite of yourself I'll be happy to give you my humble opinion on buying or building.

The first thing I always tell anyone is to sit down and make a list of the pros and cons for each. I think you have a good head start on the basics, you are thinking about what you will be using it for.
One thing to think about is the support you will or will not have. While most good computer parts have great warranties there is very little if any tech support to go along with them. While a prebuilt system should :rolleyes: have tech support that is 24/7. You would definitely need a computer that is very high on RAM, can't ever have to much of that. Great video card would be a must too and those can get quite pricey.
So do some searches on the guide here and look at what others have done. Some great ideas can be had from just a simple search here. Do alot of shopping around for parts or a prebuilt system, don't just jump on the first thing, make sure it's what you want at the price you want to pay.
Take care,
LG

[panther_base]

Thanks for your reply and advice sorry about my earlier post it's just I posted a few questions here and never gotten more than one reply and in some cases none.
If I build from ground up I already have a case, mobo, and cpu chipset in mind and all are compatible. but like you said there is an issue with tech support, and the fact I'm not too sure on what I would need program wise or how to get the OS up and running.

[jlreich]

sorry about my earlier post it's just I posted a few questions here and never gotten more than one reply and in some cases none.
Have a little patients. ;) All posts get answered around here. You just have to take in account the time difference, jobs, family to tend to. I have had threads that get answered in minutes, and some that have taken several days. Sometimes you just have to wait for the right person to answer your questions. ;)


As far as tech support goes, I think if you have desire and ability to take on a build you can handle the tech side by yourself.

As far as OS and other software goes, that's where you have to decide. Build it yourself and get zero software with the exception of any bundled software that might come with any hardware you will buy. Buy an OEM and get OS, basic office programs etc. But IMHO I think the software that come with OEM's isn't worth it. It is most often either watered down, or trialware.

I think if you want a fast gaming machine, you have to build it yourself. With the top end of your budget at $2000, you could get a decent gaming machine, but it would probably out of date within a year or two. If you build, you can get a far better system for $2000. And it would be far more upgradeable.

But building is not for everyone. LadyGrey is right, weigh your pros and cons.

The best place to start when building is to chose the CPU to base your system on. Then mobo, video card, ram, and on down the line. And don't forget to get a high quality PSU.

[saphalline]

Yes, I've noticed that many of your posts go unanswered. I try and get to you if I can, but I haven't had as much time lately for the forums as I've had in the past, and I usually take the time to continue with posts that I'm already participating in rather than get into new ones. Time management. :rolleyes: In fact, as I type, I'm constantly getting interrupted.

Anyways, on with your post!

This is always one of those intense personal debates! To build or to buy? The best answer I can give is: it depends. I know, I know, probably not the answer you wanted, but there are several things you have to take into account. LadyGrey pretty much hit all of them, the major one being that if you build, you will be your own tech support. Another consideration is that even for those who have upgraded computers, building your own from scratch is a huge undertaking. I can say that it brings a lot of satisfaction, and subsequently knowledge. I was a newbie once, too! ;) There's also the time factor. The forums here is a great place to get advice and learn, but it's a long process. Several members have been here many many months for the sole purpose of learning how to build their own, and more than one of them have been doing their project for awhile now. If you have the time it takes to learn how to build your own (and maybe even get into system designing) then it's a good experience. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to build a computer! But if you need one soon, and you aren't yet at the point where you can pick out your case fans, then building your own could be more trouble than it's worth.

If you do need one soon, I would suggest buying a custom-built system. You can be involved in all the hardware and software decisions, learn a lot in the process, but still have many of the buying advantages (such as the tech support and time savings). There are numerous custom computer vendors online that are quite good, don't overcharge for upgrades (like Dell or HP), and are quite willing to let you be involved in choices such as which service packs are installed, which driver versions, which DX version, etc. I'll have to dig up the links, though. For some reason, I can't seem to memorize them...

[pop pop]

Relative to a build decision, the good is you have made some of the initial steps already. You have defined the use(s) for what you want, you have set a target budget (believe me it will be a moving target), and you're wondering if you really can do it or if you even really want to. jlreich pretty much nailed the component selection sequence. I would add special attention to fixed storage (HDDs) and a "cool" home for everything (the case).

The point that LadyGrey made is also extremely important. If you decide to build rather than buy, you MUST be prepared to accept the fact that, to a very large degree, you will be your own tech support. Those of us who build, all had a first build and went through these same questions and personal angst before taking the plunge. I think I'm safe in saying that most first time builders, at least most successful first time builders, already had some experience that somewhat approximated what we would soon be undertaking. What I mean is we had replaced RAM, probably a video card, maybe a HDD, and most likely we had done at least one OS install and some simple troubleshooting. Do you have any of that type of experience? Any at all? It's OK even if you don't, you'll just have more challenges. Even a little related experience is helpful because when your money is on the line and something goes wrong, you'll need something to draw on. People here will help, but as you already found out free answers come when they come, by the grace of those offering them. They don't come exactly when we want, nor do they come just because we demand them. If you don't already have it, you'll have to learn patience and perseverence. Otherwise you'll wind up with a bunch of parts, no working system, and you'll be really P.O'd. The bottom line here is this, if you decide to commit to your first build, be ready to be tested and taxed. Things may go great, or even perfect, or there may be lots of bumps in the road. Either way, you'll be the one doing the driving and deciding what turns to take. There will be nobody to pin blame on except the man in the mirror. On the otherhand, you can revel in the glory of YOUR success when you successfully boot a system for the firts time--a system that you built...a system that kicks the heck out of a Dell or an eMachine, or a Compaq.

Your budget is in the range where you can build a nice system. I suggest you do what I did. Create a bookmark folder and call it "Dream Machine" or First Build or whatever. Start out by putting bookmarks in there with every possible choice you might make for each component. I used Newegg and I wound up with several options for each component. I created a spreadsheet and mapped out design, cost, and performance. Meaning, say I decide I want an Intel P4 based system--OK--my possible choices were narrowed to P4 630 at $$$, 640 at $$$, or a 660 at $$$. I did the same thing on every component. All the while doing research to fine tune and whittle down the options.

Like jlreich suggested, I choose CPU first, then (in my case) video, then mobo, then RAM,. Next I consider HDDs and opticals. Based on the type and number of devices that come out of that process, I next look at cases and PSUs. This is very long winded, but you get the picture.

When your decisions are nearly made, even BEFORE you buy, go and look at the manufacturer's web site. You can tell allot by the web site. Download and read--no study--all the manuals that are available, most especially the mobo manual. . Go on their forums, if they have them, and see what their customers are saying--especially about the components you intend to buy. That way, you'll learn about bugs, defects, updates, and incompatibilities before you pull the trigger and plop down your money. Do the same on other forums, like this one. Basically, you want to be extremely well prepared and ready to build well before you open the first box.

[panther_base]

thanks again to all of you and once again I apologize for my earlier comments, I understand timezone differences and other factors it was just seeing ppl posting after I did getting answered quicker kinda got to me a little, so I am truly soory in the future I'll be more patient.

now on to more fun stuff lol. I've pretty much decided, after reading your replies and doing some checking on my own, I'm going to take on the build (clapping follows lol) and since I don't work anymore just take care of the kids I have ample time to figure it out lol.
Through my dream folder in my bookmarks (which I created about 6 months ago, good idea btw PopPop)I have found what I think may be a decent system.
the case is form factor ATX, and micro ATX and has electricomagnetic sheilding so that's taken care of :p
Mobo- ASUS A8N SLI
CPU- Athlon 64 3000+ or 3500+ (haven't decided yet)
RAM-Corsair XMS 1GB kit
Hard Drive is still being decided on not sure how much I want or need suggestions would be nice
Sound Card- SoundBlaster Platinum (would be nice but can take lesser for price saving)
Video Card- I'm torn between the all consuming decision of GeForce or Radeon
if GeForce then I'm probably goin with the 6800 GT Radeon would be 9600+
Power Supply- Antec True Power 2.0 480w
and that's about as far as I've gotten any suggestions or trade outs would be helpful. Thanks again.

[pop pop]

I think you've got all solid choices there. Depending on the specific Asus A8N-SLI (there are three flavors), you could go with IDE, SATA-150, or SATA2 HDD(s). I like Seagate Barracuda SATA drives--quick, 5 year warrantee, running at about 50 cents/GB--160GB to 200GB in size.

[panther_base]

yeah I was thinking at first 75GB for HDD would be enough till I got to looking at some of the pre-built systems for gaming and noticed not very many of them had less than 160GB.

also good debate topic Monitors should I stick with the time proven CRT or upgrade to the Flat Panel LCD? I've heard good and bad with both and my current CRT monitor is on it's way out and is only about 2 years old (but what more could you expect from Compaq)
also 2 of the PC sites I found I'm not sure of they seem to have pretty good deals but who knows these days the sites are:
Case (http://www.atxcases.com) and
PC Parts (http://www.store.microdeals.net)
and of course I have Newegg bookmarked these are just some others I found and was wondering if anu of you have used em or know anything good or bad about em

[pop pop]

Well, there's still some debate but the reality is LCD monitors are really very good now--even for gaming. Naturally, you have to do your research and shop around. The really best bet is "seeing" in person, not reading or looking at a picture. I honestly don't think I'll ever own another CRT.

For a cross functional LCD that will be used for gaming as well as other stuff, you want one with good response time (on the order of 16ms or less), good contrast, and good color balance. You also want a monitor that can display small text clearly--that's unrelated to gaming but it's a must have in my book. You want at least a 17 inch, well...I would. Finally, I also pay attention to the viewable area. It's listed in degrees off horizontal and vertical. Paradoxically, faster monitors often come with a restricted viewable area in at least one plane, sometimes both. I look for a balance of all the atributes I listed and I also want maximum viewable area. I just get annoyed by displays where I have to be right in front of it to see what's there--makes watching video from across the room really difficult.

Look at Samsung (they make most of the panels used by everyone else anyway), look at ViewSonic (I have a 19 inch 12ms that I love). Acer is moving up and has some nice values. I've also heard that LG and BenQ are good, but maybe a bit more expensive--never used one though.

[panther_base]

once again thank you guys for your help

here's something I picked up along the way I think you might enjoy



You know you've been spending too much time online when you start using abbr. IRL LOL.. :D

[saphalline]

For hard drives, 160-200GB is the sweet spot right now. Anything lower doesn't have a good price per GB. Higher is OK, though, if you have the money. Raptors are a special case, and are designed more for speed than capacity. ;) Considering your budget (and depending on what you need/have) you should be able to fit in at least one Raptor. That would be enough, actually - a Raptor for Windows and a select few programs, and a secondary higher capacity hard drive for storage. A lot of us around here are big fans of 2 or more hard drives, and multiple partitions.

NVidia's NForce4 SLI chipset is for busting-out gaming performance. If you get a mobo using the SLI chipset, you're looking at NVidia vid cards only, since they're the only ones that work with NVidia's SLI technology. If you're still entertaining the idea of an ATI vid card, move down to the NForce4 Ultra chipset.

For gaming, don't look at anything less than these vid cards: (NVidia) GeForce 6600 GT, (ATI) Radeon X800. I chose these as your minimum based on your budget and needs. Again, the choice of your vid card will also affect the choice of your chipset. Choose wisely. :p

For AMD, the Athlon64 3000+ Venice core is your starting point. Move up from there as budget allows, but only if you've filled out the rest of your system. For gaming, having a balanced system is more important than having the fastest processor you can afford.

Good choice on the RAM. I think you'll have plenty in your budget for a gig of Corsair XMS. You might even have enough for 2GB of Corsair XMS...

Onboard audio chips are actually quite good these days. I can't complain about the quality of my own onboard video for the past few years. I used to have a dedicated PCI Sound Blaster card, but I haven't needed it in so long. You can go ahead and plan for an Audigy2, but I wouldn't consider this a priority over something like RAM or a vid card or even a Raptor.

What are your plans for an optical drive? Do you have one already? I only ask because dual-layer DVD burners have finally become ubiquitous in new systems. They no longer carry an enormous price premium - you can get them for like $50 now.

Yes, LCD monitors have gotten a lot better lately. There are many 17-19" models with 16ms response times that have collected numerous acolades in reviews. Sure, there are some 12ms and 8ms models, but the 16ms ones are adequate for gaming yet still high in quality. This is important because the fastest response time in the world can't make up for poor color reproduction or gray scales or dead pixels. The quality has to be everywhere to be worth it. At least, that's how I feel. Samsung, LG, and Viewsonic get my vote as good all-around manufacturers, but this is by no means a complete list.

I use Newegg almost exclusively, but Xoxide (www.xoxide.com/) is also useful for some of the more esoteric computer parts. :cool:

[panther_base]

well the funny thing about the hard drive choice is that while I wasn't sure what to get looking back on a previous dream list of mine I had a Raptor 75GB hard drive down as my main drive :p
as for a DVD Burner I have a Dual Layer DVD-R/RW in my current PC so I was just thinking to use just a regular CD-R/RW for the new PC, that way I can still burn music CDs and install programs but won't have to take up space with a bunch of DVD writer programs, but that's still up in the air if I'm going to do it or not,

if so I already have it on my list (just in case :p )

I like my current 17" Monitor (the size at least) so I'm probably going to stick with that size.
and thanks for tip with the sound it'll save me about $100 that I can put to my second hard drive

[panther_base]

ok got another question I've been searching through different hardware and found some good pieces and good deals (I hope :D) now all I need to know is on the Video card how do I tell if it's SLI compatable? and I've chosen an ASUS A8N-SLI Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard but I'm still trying to find a good CPU that I want to go with it there's so many choices for the socket set I know I want 3000+ but would it be better to go with something higher like 3200+ or even up to 3500+? and these parts are off Newegg (at this time looks like I'm purchasing the majority of the parts there)

[Lythium]

Your going to end up buying many of the same parts I am with my new PC, although I have half the budget you do, and already have my PSU, case, and all the fans, and opticals. Those AMD cpu's have great OC'ing ability, if you have the money, of course go higher, but 3200+ i think would be plenty sufficient. As for your video card, if you have the money to REALLY plunge, dual 6800 GT's would rock any game out there, but if you dont quite have that much room, go with a 6800 Ultra for sure! that way you can always pickup another at a later time! That Mobo rocks, im definately getting it as well. And I don't know about you, but 75GB is an awful lot of space m8, You could always start out with 1 raptor, and then buy another HD at a later time if need be.

[saphalline]

I like the 3000+ personally, but the 3200+ is good, too. Just make sure it's a Venice version - it's the newest core revision and has a few improvements over the older ones.

If the vid card is SLI compatible, you'll see a little tab on the side opposite the PCIe connector that looks sort of like a mini-PCIe connector. If you look at the second pic of this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814122201) vid card, you'll see it. On the left is the longer PCIe connector (where it fits into the slot on the mobo) and on the right is a much shorter "slot-type" connector. The shorter one on the right is the SLI connector. Having two of these SLI vid cards will allow you to connect them together using something called an "SLI bridge" that comes with the mobo. It's advisable that when you upgrade to a second vid card for SLI that you get the exact same model & manufacturer of your first vid card. This not only ensures compatibility with SLI mode, but also makes sure those little SLI connector thingies line up!

[panther_base]

Question about power supplies, I was looking for around 480W I found a case that comes with a 480W power supply. I guess my question is what determines the size of your power supply or how much power you need?

I'm planning on Windows XP Home for my OS but, what do I need to start with? I've done all the hardware installs on my older systems but this will be my first clean build and install so I'm not sure what I need program-wise to get my system up and running.

[hockey man]

The PSU might be o.k. But it is allways a good idea to have a great PSU! Read Saphalline's sticked thread with his recommendations; he recommends PSU here.

[saphalline]

Bundled PSU's are a bit of a sore spot when it comes to recommendations. Read this thread (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=38368) as a nice starter. PC Power & Cooling also has a nice starter here (http://www.pcpowercooling.com/technology/power_usage/) about power requirements, and check out the links on the left for more reading. There are also many many more threads here on the forums discussing in detail what makes a good PSU, and what makes a great PSU. ;) Just do some searches.

The base of what you'll need to get a system up and running on a fresh install includes the Windows installation CD, and all required drivers (chipset, audio, video, LAN, etc). It's also a good idea to have install files/CD's for "highly recommended" apps, such as anti-virus, firewall, and other various utilities. Finally, back to the Windows aspect, download the free versions (if you don't have them already) of the more popular apps like Adobe Acrobat Reader 7, WinZIP/WinRAR, etc. And of course I always find a few more useful programs like the M$ Office suite (I'm still on XP Pro but 2003 is available now), Partition Magic, Acronis TrueImage or Ghost... things like that. There's also extraneous stuff like Firefox (I don't like IE anymore) and codecs like AC3, DivX, XviD, QuickTime, etc. Hmmm... this list is getting rather long! :p And I'm sure I've even forgotten a few things. Yep, I have, but I'll stop here for now. This topic right here almost warrants its own thread!

[panther_base]

ok based on that chart you provided I would need a 480W-500W PSU which I have a 480W Thermaltake Silent Purepower selected to replace the standard case PSU :p,

even though my budget allows for quite a bit I still can't break the habbit of bargain hunting :p

So basically all I need to get this started program-wise is my core programs and drivers i.e. windows/firewall-anti-virus (Norton Internet Security)/and the drivers for the new hardware, right? The other programs I can download once the computer is up and running?

[saphalline]

Yes, that's all you need. Although, I would suggest at the very least that you have the hard drive manufacturer's diagnostic utilities on-hand and on a floppy, and a good floppy-based RAM tester (like MemTest86). Those are the only two "extra" pieces of software that can be quite valuable during the actual building of the computer.