spontaneous rebooting

[jes]

I have a PC that is installed with Windows XP. It is about a year old It runs 2.8 GHz and 480 MB memory. This computer is on our network of Windows computers. It does not usually have a user; it is used as a print server, Internet gateway (shares to the rest of the network through ICS) and storage for our database.

This computer is shut down every night (using the proper Windows shut down method). During the daytime it is supposed to run continuously but it reboots itself about once every two weeks. I think that I perform a proper maintenance schedule on it. It is protected by AVG -it updates the virus definitions every morning and then runs a full system scan. I update and scan with Ad Aware a few times per week (using the criteria set out by shanmuga about configuring Ad Aware 6 for a full system scan). I try to keep the installed programs trimmed to the ones that are necessary… I thought that I took care of it. What more can I do to stop this rebooting problem?

[Quantax]

Failing power supply, RAM problems are the first things to consider. However, since it's XP, go into the Control Panel, click on System, click on Advanced, then click on the bottommost Settings tab, then when the new window appears, below where it says "system alert" remove the check from 'automatically restart'. That way, hopefully a "stop error" would appear pointing to what the underlying cause is.

[jes]

Thanks for the reply. I'll see if that works.

[agentLX]

runs 2.8 GHz ............ do have a proper cooling system, your bios might be set to shutdown if system temp gets hot.

[jes]

Just the useual fans that it came with. They seem to be working fine.

[jes]

That computer was good for a while, then it started locking up and displaying this:

A problem has been detected and Windows has been shut down to prevent damage to your computer.

DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

If this is the first time you’ve seen this stop error screen, restart your computer. If this screen appears again, follow these steps:

Check to make sure any new hardware or software is properly installed. If this is a new installation ask your hardware or software manufacturer for any Windows updates that it might need.

If problems continue, disable or remove any newly installed hardware or software. Disable BIOS memory options such as caching or shadowing. If you need to use Safe Mode to remove or disable components, restart your computer, press F8 to select Advanced Startup options, and then select Safe Mode.

Technical information:

*** STOP: 0x000000D1 (0x00000002,0x00000000, 0x00000000)

Beginning dump of physical memory.
Physical memory dump complete.
Contact you system administrator or technical support group for further assistance.



I think that this is the same problem as before. It is just manifesting with an error message now. This has happened twice in the last few weeks. Is the error message saying that I have bad memory?

[123456]

That happened to me once, but I rebooted it and everything was fine. Apparently it happens again. I'll leave the experts to help you.

[jes]

I think that it is important to mention that there has been nothing new (with the exception of a few database files) added or removed from this computer. It is virus free according to AVG (updated several times a day). No high priority Windows Updates are available.Ad-aware 6 with the newest updates can not find anything.

[Quantax]

That computer was good for a while, then it started locking up and displaying this:

A problem has been detected and Windows has been shut down to prevent damage to your computer.

DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

If this is the first time you’ve seen this stop error screen, restart your computer. If this screen appears again, follow these steps:

Check to make sure any new hardware or software is properly installed. If this is a new installation ask your hardware or software manufacturer for any Windows updates that it might need.

If problems continue, disable or remove any newly installed hardware or software. Disable BIOS memory options such as caching or shadowing. If you need to use Safe Mode to remove or disable components, restart your computer, press F8 to select Advanced Startup options, and then select Safe Mode.

Technical information:

*** STOP: 0x000000D1 (0x00000002,0x00000000, 0x00000000)

Beginning dump of physical memory.
Physical memory dump complete.
Contact you system administrator or technical support group for further assistance.



I think that this is the same problem as before. It is just manifesting with an error message now. This has happened twice in the last few weeks. Is the error message saying that I have bad memory?
This is one cause for this error message. I'd also suggest checking out the site www.aumha.org.

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=839876&sd=RMVP

[jes]

To resolve this problem, obtain the latest service pack for Microsoft Windows XP
All of the computers on this network run SP2.

[jes]

When I look at the application errors that Dr. Watson reports, there are two references to Norton Antivirus kicking up a stink. We used to use NAV here. About a year ago I uninstalled it and put in AVG (I got that idea from these forums and I love that program nowI). What can I do to get rid of the existing remains of NAV?
I looked in Program Files, the folders for NAV are still there but the program is gone from the Add/Remove Programs icon in the control pannel. However, Live update will not leave the Add/Remove Programs list. It says that It needs the rest of NAV. I disabled AVG and reinstalled NAV so that I could uninstall it again and Live Update still won't leave.

[Quantax]

Delete those folders in the program files. You may also need to delete the references in the Registry, finding it under Symantec.

[jes]

I deleted the NAV folders in the Program Files directory and most problems stoped but it still acts a bit funny. It wont allow me to map a network drive, sometimes when I call up a context menu the menu will not stay visible for more than a half second at a time...
I think that I should delete the references in the registry to NAV.
Should I delete every reference to symantec that I find in the registry? How do I back up the registry in XP Home?

[Quantax]

First create a new restore point in System Restore or check to see if you have an existing one you can return to if needed. Then you can go ahead with deleting all the references to NAV in the Registry.

[Steve]

Doing as Quantax suggests will probably work but if you still have problems, the following link might help....

LINK (http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/ent-security.nsf/529c2f9adcf33a1088256e22005026f1/a4d3327506ae7c5f88256b81007b7487?OpenDocument&src=bar_sch_nam)

[jes]

Ok. Thanks. I will try those suggestions.

[jes]

Is there an easy way to delete all the references to Symantec in the registry. There are hundreds of them. Is there a way to find them all at once and delete them? The only way I see that I can do it is to find and delete one by one.

Also, I am wondering about installing Windows over Windows without re-formating. I used to do it with Windows 9x to solve some problems. Can it be done with Windows XP? When I put in the CD and tell it to install it just tells me that the copy of Windows that I have is newer than the one on disk.

[classicsoftware]

Depends on the version of NAV. Look on their web site for the way to manually remove the version you have. You should never just delete folders where there are references in the registry. NEVER!!!! You can crash a system. DO NOT DO IT AGAIN.

They may have a program that removes all traces. The reinstall AVG.

[Quantax]

Depends on the version of NAV. Look on their web site for the way to manually remove the version you have. You should never just delete folders where there are references in the registry. NEVER!!!! You can crash a system. DO NOT DO IT AGAIN.

They may have a program that removes all traces. The reinstall AVG.
To be on the safe side this is true. However, the Symantec process does involve removing certain entries in the Registry so I'd agree it's better to follow their procedure so that the correct ones are deleted.

[classicsoftware]

The process involves removing from the registry BEFORE deleting any files....

[jes]

I think this (http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/2003080311011006?Open&src=bar_sch_nam&docid=2002031914291648&nsf=ent-security.nsf&view=529c2f9adcf33a1088256e22005026f1&dtype=&prod=&ver=&osv=&osv_lvl=) is what I need then. I will have to do this either tonight or on the weekend when there are no users needing that computer. It seems like a really logical step to look at this site. I am a little embarased that I didn't think of it.

About installing Windows without formating, is that possible with Windows XP?

[Quantax]

The process involves removing from the registry BEFORE deleting any files....
But what's the difference between "removing" and "deleting?" Aren't they equivalent?

[classicsoftware]

The registry loadsduring startup. It points to files on the hard disk and loads them as needed. Removing something from the registry DOES NOT remove it from the computer, it only stops it from loading.

Deleting a file from the PC removes it from the PC. It does not prevent the registry from trying to load the deleted file. This can cause havoc and bring a system to it;s knees....

[Jeebus_]

Get a registry scanner. I use the built in one with CCleaner and it finds reference to programs I no longer have and removes them. Its worth a shot. http://www.ccleaner.com

Great APP for removing temp files!

[Quantax]

The registry loadsduring startup. It points to files on the hard disk and loads them as needed. Removing something from the registry DOES NOT remove it from the computer, it only stops it from loading.

Deleting a file from the PC removes it from the PC. It does not prevent the registry from trying to load the deleted file. This can cause havoc and bring a system to it;s knees....
So if I "delete" a Registry entry(like a program in the "current version"-"uninstall" area), is this "removing" it or is it "deleting" it since the latter is what is an option when you right click the mouse next to the entry.

[classicsoftware]

I repeat, it removes it from the registry, but NOT from the computer.

[jes]

I tried that Ccleaner. It found a bunch of stuff and removed it. There are still entries to Symantec in the registry but that computer hasn't had any large problems since I did that. It has only been a few hours though so... When that computer started freezing and displaying the memory errors, I noticed that the CD player operated differently. It still reads CDs but it won't burn them. When I click on a file and go to Send To in that context menu, there are options to send the file to a mail recipient, A drive... but I can't send the file to the CD player anymore. I remember that it was working just like that a few months ago.

Maybe I should follow the instructions that I found at Symantec.com now.

If that doesn't work then I suppose that I will have to reformat the HD. I really don't want to because there would be alot of settup afterwards.

Any suggestions other that "reformat the system" would be very (very) welcome.

[classicsoftware]

Follow the instructions at the Symantec web site and rid yourself of the beast once and for all.

[jes]

I followed the Symantec instructions. Actually, when I got into it, I found that Symantec offered a program that claims to remove any of thel 2004/2005 Symantec products. I ran it. Live update is not in Add/Remove Programs now but there are still plenty of references to Symantec in the registry. There are no symantec products running on that computer. At least, there shouldn't be.
That computer still freezes and displays a blue screen referencing a memory address.
I ran memtest 86 on that computer last weekend. After 52 hours I needed the computer back and stoped the test but it had found nothing so far.

What should I do now? Should I run memtest86 again and let it run to the end this time?

[jes]

http://www.sasktelwebsite.net/ajohn/ss1.JPG and http://www.sasktelwebsite.net/ajohn/ss2.JPG are pictures of the error message that shows up a few times per week.

[Sylvander]

Doesn't "Clean Sweep" get used any more?

I have it and at one time played around with it quite a bit.
It was very good at removing things cleanly.
One of the things it did was to display a list of all the higherarchical settings in the registry that were part of an installed program.
And if you wanted to remove the program's settings from the registry it would remove them ALL in one go.

It would also list all the files related to a program, although [if I remember right] it was much better if "Clean Sweep" was installed at the time the program was installed, so it could make a record of EVERY change made as a result of the installation.

I don't use it any more; it just seemed like too much work.

I now use backups and a paper log of all the dates of programs installed/uninstalled and backups made/restored.
I might [by design] install a program [NAV perhaps] right after making a routine backup and keep that backup somewhere safe.
If I wanted to eliminate NAV I could restore the backup made just before it was installed. It would be like it had never been there.
All the data files [other than program files, only program files are on C:] would be on a different partition therefore unaffected by this change.
I'd lose all programs installed since then, but they probably wouldn't take too long to reinstall.

[jes]

That's a good idea. I think that I will do that in the future but it is too late for that this time.
The reason that I think that the NAV remnants are the problem is that NAV is notorious for causing problems.
Maybe that is an incorrect assumption though. The computer just freezes up a few times per week and displays that message referring to a memory stop.
What would you do?

[Sylvander]

"What would you do?"
Perhaps you should have said "what would you do if you were me".
You see, I'm in an especially good position to reformat C: and rebuild my software.
1. I have ALL 64 of my drivers backed up by "My Drivers 3.11" [15 day trial from] www.zhangduo.com/driverbackup.html to the CD-RW mentioned in 3 below. It did them all in one go, and put them in appropriately named folders.
2. All my data ["My Documents", emails, Address Book, Favourites etc plus images, music etc] are on partitions other than C: [D: E: F:] and would remain untouched.
3. All the programs I download from the internet [to install] are saved on a CD-RW disk, so they'd be easy to find & install.
4. The Windows and MS Office installation files are already on my G: partition where my backup image files are also held [I can restore any number of individual files/folders from these]. It would be easy to run the installations from there.

5. So I'd simply re-format C: and begin installing Windows and all my drivers and programs. I'd need to use the previous methods ["TweakUI" etc] to point to [the untouched] "My Documents", emails, Address Book, Favourites etc on D:. It wouldn't take too long. This would produce a new clean [backed up] installation.
6. I'd make more backups at key points along the way [like when Windows is set up, and then when all the programs have been installed and configured].
These might be great points to "jump back" to if I hit trouble in the future.
7. If I then had ANY trouble whatever with the software, I could undo it in 15 to 30 minutes by restoring a backup. As it is, I've not so far hit any problem I couldn't get out of [backups being the main thing that saves my bacon].

[Quantax]

http://www.sasktelwebsite.net/ajohn/ss1.JPG and http://www.sasktelwebsite.net/ajohn/ss2.JPG are pictures of the error message that shows up a few times per week.
Check out this article which addresses that particular stop error:


http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=315335&sd=RMVP

[jes]

I have been to that page before, but somehow I missed the part that recomends trying a different RAM slot. I will try that. Thanks.