Hurricane Katrina

[Steve]

Boy, anyone watching what's going on with this one? If I'm not mistaken, Pete is right in the way of this monster! Good luck Pete. Give us some updates if you can.

Some are saying that this is the third or fourth biggest hurricane to ever hit the US. One hundred and sixty mile per hour winds are heading straight for New Orleans with a twenty five foot storm surge. A million folks are being ordered out of the area.

http://www.weather.com/index.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9063708/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/28/AR2005082800598.html

[pop pop]

Only the hurricane of 1935 (there were no names back then)--Florida Keys, Camille in 1969--Mississippi coast, and Andrew--South FL in 1992 were as big or bigger. The really bad news is New Orleans, on average, is 10 feet below sea level. You can sit in restaraunts and look out and watch boats go by above your head. Unless there is Divine intervention, New Orleans may well be literally under water after this.

Pray people.

[poppy]

I know. I've been going back and forth between the forum and the weather. We dodged the bullet on this one, but I have friends in New Orleans and on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. All I can do is pray and hope they are out of harm's way because this one is a monster!

[PrntRhd]

This one is a threat to the entire Central US, once it goes inland it will start to curve to the northeast so the Mississippi River Valley up to the Ohio River Valley is going to get tremendous rainfalls.

[jlreich]

My prayers go out to you New Orleans and all the others in the path. I hope you are safe Pete. :(

[Jason1971]

I ask you all to pray for my girlfriend. She is an RN/Paramedic who is on a FEMA disaster team. Two day ago her DMAT was activated. Her team has just arrived at the Supper Dome in New Orleans.. I am concerned for her safety and all of those others who are there trying to ride the storm out...

Please say a prayer for her and the others who are there.... I know I will......

Pete I will say a prayer for you too.... Hope you are out of there......

Jason

[ErnieK]

My thought and prayers are with PETE and everyone else there.

[Whyzman]

6:34 Central Time...46' waves and 115mph winds felt already...not a good situation...

Keeping an eye on the Weather Channel...

[YODA74]

Only the hurricane of 1935 (there were no names back then)--Florida Keys, Camille in 1969--Mississippi coast, and Andrew--South FL in 1992 were as big or bigger.




Hurricane Hugo

Sept. 10-25, 1989

Max. winds: 160 mph Min. pressure: 918 mb Category: 5

Also

Hurricane Hazel 1954 cat 4

[PrntRhd]

Katrina came in at 925 mb, between 165 and 145 MPH missed direct hit on New Orleans itself, eye hitting Gulfport Mississippi and Biloxi. Now dropping to Cat3, 127 MPH.

[Steve]

Good grief! I've been watching the video coverage of the area on the news. Incredible. They're reporting that there is four feet of water (and rising) around the Super Dome where ten thousand folks are camping out. Around eighty percent of New Orleans is flooded. The levies have been breached.

And that's just the early pictures. Mississippi is even harder hit and news from there is just beginning to get out. The news is reporting at least eighty deaths. A number that will probably rise. Rescue workers are picking people off of their roof tops which is all that's above the flood.

It might be awhile before we hear from Pete....

[EL_BaRTO]

First my prayers out to the residents of New Orleans. I currently live in Natchitoches, LA, which is about 5 hours away from New Orleans. I have seen lots of evacuees here on my college campus at NSU. According to what I heard the water or flooding is getting higher because of a "dam" structure is damage. Unfortunately, residents may not return to New Orleans for four weeks because about 80% of the city is submerged in water. Just keeping informed of what I heard. My prayers still out to the residents and those helping with this tragic event.

[pop pop]

I have not seen this on TV, I heard it on the radio, one or more of the levies has breached and water is rushing in. The newscaster said, "It's not expected to stop until it is level with the lake." (Ponchetrane)

The mayor has said 80 percent of the city is underwater, both airports are submerged.

[poppy]

Having lived in Biloxi and Ocean Springs for several years and working at a job that had it's regional office in NOL, it's just sickening to watch the reports of devastation that has occurred. My heart and prayers go out to the citizens of that area. I'm still trying to make contact with friends, but unfortunately that is definitely going to take time due to all of the destruction that has occurred and limited communications.

The only thing to do now is pray some more and hope for the best.

[ErnieK]

Anybody any word about PETE?

[transcendental]

Mother Nature seems to be against us. First it was the snow at our neighbor that lasted forever. It even snowed in March. Then it was the short and late spring that came. Then it is the boiling hot summer that burned off my skin. Then it was hurricane Katrina that striked. I wonder what would come next...

[Steve]

Mother Nature seems to be against us
Or maybe it's just that we think we can overcome nature.

Anybody any word about PETE?
Ernie, I noticed that he posted yesterday so he seems to be functional... :)

The president was on the tube yesterday saying this is one of the biggest natural disasters in our history. It could be the largest. The major of New Orleans is quessing that thousands have drowned. The cable news shows are reporting that there are whole counties in Miss. that still haven't been heard from. What a mess.

[Variable]

I was reading an article on Foxnews.com and it sounds like a B grade made for TV movie happening in real life. Armed groups of thugs roaming the streets with guns. Dead people left out unattended at the superdome, as people file by, to get on buses to flee. Evacuation choppers halted because some idiot shot at a chinook landing near the superdome. Police have been told to stop rescuing people and focus on stopping the armed bands of looters who are becoming more violent. Un#%^$ing believable! Oh yea, and the police are evacuating many sections of the city. The mayor has left the city.

National Guard troops are pouring into New Orleans. They need to shoot armed looters on site. It's not just New Orleans either, In Mississippi people stopped a supply truck headed for a nursing home at gun point and jacked the truck. Car jacking’s are happening everywhere around there. A Fox reporter said, that a police officer told him there was nothing left to steal worth stealing in Biloxi. The news I saw this morning - Biloxi looked like a war zone. HUGE barges that were floating casinos are hundred of yards inland. Roads are blocked by debris and these homes around there are just gone. Fuel prices are going insane. This is going to be -by far- the worst and most expensive disaster in US history. Andrew was pretty bad but there were no cities evacuated, no refineries closed. NC has been hit bad before but mostly in rural areas.

I think new houses in these places should be made of stronger materials, like concrete and steel. The insurance companies are going to gouge everyone for years because of this. Gas prices are going through the roof. There is a rumor going around here that Charlotte is going to run out of gas. Can you believe that? I have no idea if it is true or not but, it tells you how far reaching this disaster is. People are panicky. If Al Queda pulled something big right now they could throw the US into some serious chaos.
Blows my mind to think about it.

I encourage everyone, no matter where you live, to never rely on anyone else, especially the Government or law enforcement, for you or your family’s safety. Take aggressive steps to be more self reliant and prepare in advance for disaster. Many of these people in big cities are just hopelessly incapable of doing anything to help them selves if normal services fail.

All this planning by Homeland Security, all the tax dollars being pumped into disaster preparedness...I am not impressed with the way things are being handled down there. This kind of thing was foreseen for years in New Orleans. You would think they would have handled it better.

Give all you can to the Red Cross, they will be dealing with this for years.

[Sempron]

It must have been one hell of a disaster for President Bush to get back to Washington D.C. 2 days early from his vacation (poor bugger) to announce his 'regrets'. But you know the war in Iraq still goes on. Gas prices are thru the roof, our troops and fellow Americans are all over the world helping and fighting for somebody elses cause when our own country is in turmoil. All I can say is this wont stand much longer.

[Sempron]

It must have been one hell of a disaster for President Bush to get back to Washington D.C. 2 days early from his vacation (poor bugger) to announce his 'regrets'. But you know the war in Iraq still goes on. Gas prices are thru the roof, our troops and fellow Americans are all over the world helping and fighting for somebody elses cause when our own country is in turmoil. All I can say is this wont stand much longer.

My prayers and thoughts go out to all those in such bad places right now

[pop pop]

I've been reading as much as I can on the net. I've been watching the news on TV. The US has been hit by a natural disaster, maybe not on the same scale as the tsunami, but it's certainly looking like the worst in 100 years, if not in our history.

I have one question: Where's the offers of help from the rest of the world????? :( :mad:

Am I just missing something here? Find me one headline that says France, or Germany, or Spain, or Russia, or China, or anybody is offering help.

I've heard Saudis said they'll up oil production (@ $70bbl) to offset the shortfall there. Gee, thanks. I heard Argentina offered oil. I've neither heard nor read anything else offered from anybody.

[poppy]

On a positive note, I received some good news today that one of my friends and his family from New Orleans evacuated and are safe in central LA. I'm still trying to sift through the various sites that have popped up regarding survivors and looking for info on more close friends in the hardest hit areas of the Mississippi Gulf Coast. Will leave the forum and continue my vigil.

On a side note, with the pockets of "thugs" looting and causing civil unrest in New Orleans, it apparently doesn't stop there. Some of the sites I am visiting to try and locate family, friends, etc. are reporting that some alleged sites that have popped up are attaching viruses and trojans when you visit them. Also there have been reports of internet scams popping up frequently. People are offering up an incredible amount of info on the net in an effort to locate families and friends. I just hope they heed warnings and have their systems well protected and be concerned about the possibility of identity theft.

All for now as I am going back to my search.

[Sempron]

Best of luck poppy!! Our prayers will be with you!

Pop Pop. I too thought about your argument at times. It doesnt seem fair. We out reach to many other countries in need (Asia Tsunami as example) but when Florida gets hit dozens of times a year and now this, theres no one to be found and why would they. After all we are one of the richest countries in the world...Makes me sick to think about it. But we (USA) are pretty much expected to help when help is needed. I just wish the best for those stuck down in New Orleans and Mississippi. God bless them all.

[poppy]

The more this story unfolds, it just makes me sick to think how the beauracrats are sitting in their warm and safe environments and have no clue what is going on.

Just watching this at 11pm tonight. Authorities for FEMA and local officials said they could handle about 25,000 refugees at the Astrodome. There are about 5,000 there now and the buses that are arriving are being turned away and told to go elsewhere because they can't take any more people! :confused: :confused:

Going through all of the strife at the Superdome and traveling 12 hours by bus to Houston to be told to go somewhere else. :eek: What are our leaders thinking?

Trying to locate people and seeing the destruction that has occurred and then to have garbage like this unfold just makes me mad as h***!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Steve]

Texas is really going out of it's way to help out the refugees of this disaster. They are taking in and helping what might become 100,000 folks. Way to go, Texas.

But what about Arkansas, Illinois, Tennessee and the other surrounding states? Why the hell aren't they in there hauling people out!? The skies should be filled with helicopters by now.

Where is the help?

Pop pop, I think it's a matter of how can other countries help. We have plenty of money. No sense trying to help us there. We have more than enough people and supplies. Can't really help us there. The EU has offered to sell us gasoline. Our good buddy Hugo Chavez has offered to send fuel. :rolleyes: The eyes of the world will be on how we handle the situation.

I'm kind of surprised at how many folks made no plans for the event. There were warnings for days. I wonder how prepared folks are for a disaster anywhere in the country. Are any of us prepared to live without services for more than a day or two?

[pop pop]

I suppose you're right about other countries, Steve. I just think the offers should have been made, if not as anything more than a humanitarian gesture. Nuff said.

On another front, I do think this is a huge blackeye when it comes to showing what the state of our disaster preparedness is, as a nation, as states, and as individuals. It's a wake up call people. You would have thought that in the post 9/11 USA, reaction time would have been lightening quick from the feds and the state governments. It has been four years since 9/11 and we have spent BILLIONS--and I'm not even talking Iraq or Afganistan here. On what? Giving the feds immediate access to our emails and phone records? What have they done with the money spent for preparation and readiness? I hate litigation, but what I see is a strong case for gross negligence and wasteful mismanagement of tax payer resources. It's been FIVE DAYS people. The National Guard just started arriving yesterday.

My politics are normally conservative in the traditional sense. The federal government really only has a couple of "jobs" that the Constitution has given it. The main one is national defense and by extension that means recovery and rescue.

This was a natural disaster with ample warning. Let's take it to the extreme. What if it HAD BEEN something else? Let's say a terrorist dirty bomb or bio-chemical weapon, with no warning whatsoever?

Once those people are taken care of down there, there must be a grass roots movement to hold the government--at all level-- accountable.

Sure, some of those people in N.O and the surrounding area could have left and just chose to stay. Many, many of them had no way to get out and nowhere to go. This exact senario, the consequence of a Categor 5 hitting N.O, has been under investigation and study for over a decade by the universities down there and branches of the government including the Army Corps of Engineers. The study concluded that exactly what we are seeing is what would happen. Nothing was done. The 10.5 billion dollars that Conress allocated yesterday and that the President is signing off on today should have been spent years ago getting N.O. and the surrounding area into a condition where this would have been manageable.

Am I pissed? Yes.

[classicsoftware]

Well, where do we start. This is the single biggest problem facing our form of government. We NEVER respond until it's too late.


Pearl Harbor
Sputnik
The Gas crisis of the 80's
9-11
Hurricane Katrina


We, the people of the USA allowed this to happen. We allowed congress to spend billions on wasteful pork barrel projects. We could have raised and reinforced the levees. The army corps of engineers had their budget chopped to hell.
If Bill Clinton did only one thing well as President it was to make FEMA a first class agency. It's the reason he was elected. Bush 41 lost Florida and the election, because of the less than stellar response to Andrew in 1992. Clinton streamlined and reformed FEMA. What have we done with it in the last 5 years. We should be ashamed of what was done in our name by our elected officials. We can't stop a hurricane, but we better be way better prepared when one happens.

What happens in the event of a terrorist attack. I shudder to think.

And while I'm ranting, why do we store oil in the strategic reserve? The europens can offor us gasoline, because they store refined products in their reserve. A much better idea.

And finally, the oil companies should all be invesitgated. They are ripping us off. Either you buy gasoline at x dollars and mark it up and then buy more gasoline at x+10 and mark it up. But they are buying gas at x and charging us X+10 for the stuff they paid X. When has goes down to X will they lower the price before the new stock arrives, I think not. There should be a special tax on oil companies. That any profit over a given percentage will be donated to the people who have been damaged.
'
END OF RANT

[Sempron]

Im with you both Pop Pop & classicsoftware!

I dont see the American people putting up with the way things are and are going, for much longer.

[Paleo Pete]

Ponchetrane

That's cajun you're typing...Pontchartrain is how it's actually spelled. No, I didn't expect you to already know that...I'm from this wretched state and I still have a hard time remembering how to spell that or half the other names...and I can spell quite well...

Anyway, I'm fine, quite a bit north of New Orleans and just got a few inches of rain out of it, and some 25-30 MPH winds, nothing serious. The main body of the storm turned before it got here. Haven't been able to get online much due to major league phone line downage, don't think I got online at all last night, finally crawled off to bed around 1AM still getting recordings telling me this same number was disconnected or no longer in service. Both Internet and long distance have been iffy for 2 days..

Things don't look good south of here at all. We have over 1,000 people relocated to this parish now, (we have parishes, instead of counties, for those who are not aware of it) and at least another 800 on the way. Buses left today I think to go get them. New Orleans is still under water and not expected to be habitable at all for at least a month, some less conservative estimates are more like several months. I haven't watched the news or weather reports, but have caught bits of it here and there, saw some CNN or Weather Channel shots of large areas of rooftops maybe 3' out of the water, talked to people who got out in time, and have read a bit about it online too. Since New Orleans is actually all below sea level, when the levees were damaged the water took its natural course, downhill into the city.

Here's just one of the major problems:

Portions of the Interstate 10 high-rise bridge over the mouth of Lake Pontchartrain east of New Orleans have collapsed. Another bridge, the causeway running across the middle of the lake, has structural damage, and engineers are inspecting U.S. 11, which also crosses the lake, to determine if it is structurally sound.

***Copied from the Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3331422) website.***
That's two bridges, which are the most common access routes. That means transportation in and out of the area is restricted to I-10, a good size section of which I think is not in great shape at this point either.

Here's a bit of geography that explains some of what's happening now, and even at the bottom predicts it. New orleans Geography (http://www.southbear.com/New_Orleans/Geography.html) Hurricanes have always been a big worry in that area, I was down there a couple of years ago when one hit the coast directly south of me by about two hours (well west of New Orlens). It turned after landfall too and missed us but we did get winds over 50MPH, lots of rain and of course the obligatory power outtage...I've watched probably a dozen hurricanes blow through different parts of the gulf coast, it's not fun at all even when it does not cause this kind of damage and human emergency.

This time is really making a lot of people angry around this part of the country, someone took a potshot at a medical helicopter, I understand a medic or police officer was shot, major looting, armed gangs running loose terrorizing anyone who comes near, including rescuers and police, and those are the people there TO HELP...Gas prices and delivery problems are ot helping matters a bit, shipping has been interrupted in a big way due to weather, inaccessible roads, in some areas fear for personal safety, and fuel prices that jumped $0.15-0.50 in one day depending on location. No such thing as a hotel room, people are getting ready to bring evacuees into their homes for lack of anywhere else for them to stay..Schools have been shut down for the next 5 days, the buses are gone south to pick up survivers, all of whom now know the city is a lost cause and so is everything they came home to yesterday. I talked to a couple in a store today who had just finally located the children the lady was searching for, the man's 14 year old son was still unaccounted for as of 1PM today.

And the water has no way of getting out, it has to be pumped out...Uphill... Look at the sketch at bottom of This Article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4201060.stm) (British, no less) and it has a good picture of a cross section of town. This is not water that will drain off by tomorrow or the next day, it will be there till it gets pumped out. Lake Pontchartrain can't hold that water until the levee is repaired, which will take some time.

[hockey man]

I'm like pop pop, a conservative. But I must agree 5 days is too long. They new Katrina was coming, they should have activated the reserves before hand and moved them just out side of Katrina's path. Then went right in behind her. Also, the city of New Orleans should have been more prepared. They new a major storm would do this. But why didn't they act? Build stronger leeves, build secondary leeves. Part of the problem was poor emergancy planning by the city. Now, pop pop has said this and I wanted to echo it. Were are our allies? Whenever something happens we offer our troops and support to other nations. Yet when we could use a helping hand no-one offers one! Were are the dutch? They live in a drained area, they should be offering us informational help. Anyway, while there are ligitimate reasons to point fingers at some, the best thing right now is to offer aid. Here at school (Florida) they are planning to help somehow. In my opinion, every state in the New Orleans area should be offering aid, not just Texas.

[PrntRhd]

The issue of the levees gets mired in the bureaucracy.
The levees are done by the US Army Corps of Engineers. They wanted to strengthen the levees in New Orleans and asked for the money to do so. The request has to go through the Office of Management and Budget, who decides how much to ask Congress to Appropriate and what projects should be funded.
Congress gets the OMB list and decides if the amount will be funded.
Somehow the project did not get funded and the work did not get done. The head of the Corps resigned as a result well before Katrina hit.

California has sent rescue teams, primarily firefighters trained in search and rescue to the area, they are searching submerged houses in New Orleans for survivors in attics but now have to have armed escorts for security. Other teams are in Biloxi and Gulfport.

From Pete's post it appears there is only one damaged road into New Orleans open from the north, and all airports are in the flood, and the Port is seriously torn up and cut off by flooding. Difficult to get stuff in or out under those conditions, water landing craft would be useful about now.

[pop pop]

N.O. local government failed. Louisiana sate government failed. Federal government failed miserably.

Other states are now kicking in. The private sector is kicking in--as we always do--the generousity of individual Americans always amazes me. The federal government is mobilizing, way too late and making lame excuses. The head of FEMA is totally clueless. The president, who I have supported in the past, should be embarrased and ashamed.

The people of New Orleans will make it through this. The city will recover and be rebuilt--the landscape will be different. The political landscape will too. It must.

[deddard]

Looking at this from across the pond (I'm in the UK) everyone is amazed at how inept the US Government has proven. Bush looked like a complete idiot - 'there is a spirit which cannot be quelled' - what sort of people this man thinks he is dealing with is beyond me.
Foreign governments have offered aid (including the UK) but it seems totally wacky that the most powerful nation in the world can't help it's own. Does the US have an immediate response team for this sort of thing? In the UK we often see pictures of 'mothballed' aircraft lined up on runways - is there no system in place where stocks of meals ready to eat and water could simply be loaded up and dropped with some troops?
Bush advised people to use fuel carefully and that nature was against them. This is one point that grates on the nerves of many, as global warming is likely to play a part in even worse storms in the future, yet the US doesn't like the idea of controlling the causes.

Our hearts really go out to those involved. It's disgusting to see the people on the flooded streets terrified by mobs. Our thoughts are with you, and we hope you all come through this OK.

[Variable]

I have been watching and reading about this thing since it started and I think I see where the problem started (with the lack of response) and who is going to get the blame. Americans like to blame someone (always look for the designated sacrificial goat after a boondoggle.)

First, everyone who does disaster help for the US has a play book that they follow. We all know the US has seen many, many disasters and most are handled adequately. This hurricane was at first treated like a "normal" disaster. During a normal disaster the Governor (i.e. sacrificial goat) is supposed to officially request the more extreme measures from the Feds; Martial Law be imposed by Fed troops and ask for the full help of the Federal Government( not just FEMA but a full fledged Federal military response). The Governor did not do this in the first several days. I saw Miles O’Brian on CNN grilling her live during an interview the other morning. He was really giving her both barrels. The administration has let the word out (my opinion) that they were never officially asked for the kind of response we are now seeing, in the first few days (beside the normal FEMA help.)

Now, we all know the Conservatives (like me ) like States rights and Bush is a big fan of States rights. It is not the Federal Governments role to simply sweep in and take over, that is akin to an invasion. The legal and formal steps need to be taken. The idiot Governor evidently didn't go to that page in the Disaster Handbook for Louisiana.
Now, we all know the President is going to catch hell no matter what. The lefties hate his guts and he could do nothing right. They would always whine about something. But, someone from his administration should have been on the phone to the elected leader of the state of Louisiana saying look lady, you need to do this, this and this and you need to do it ASAP.
The President was catching major flack day before yesterday and he responded. He called the Pentagon and said "make it so" and you can see what’s going on yesterday and today. Big convoys, lots of grunts and choppers.

I don't think anyone should blame Bush. We have "professional" disaster people; we have elected Local and State government who are spending A hell of a lot of money since 9/11 preparing for major catastrophe. Well it happened.. And their planning and preparation sucks. The taxpayers money wasted by the Federal Government - imagine that..

The President of the US is not the dictator, this isn't China. The laws protecting States rights are there for good reason. All the Governor had to do was follow the appropriate steps and for the Professional disaster people at FEMA to get their noses out of the playbook and look at the situation for what it was. Unprecedented. You cannot simply follow your guidelines when the situation was like it was.
Blaming Bush is to simplistic, the problem is deeply rooted in the bureaucratic nature of the Government. It will not change btw. People should be more self reliant and take care of their own. Someone posted that the “people” won’t stand for it. That’s horse hockey. Most people have the attention span of a 4 year old. The Senate and House will hold hearings and there will be recommendations and the taxpayers will pay more money. As long as a Osama doesn’t nuke us or some other New Orleans type situation doesn’t happen in the next few years we will be back to like it always was.

[pop pop]

I have often questioned the "how and why" of the way the American media does its business, more so in the the last few years. Thank goodness for the internet. You can get news and a different perspective from other resources. It looks as though other countries, maybe quite a few have made offers to help. I have to wonder why these offers have not made the news here. I don't know, maybe I just missed them.

I was especially impressed that tiny Sri Lanka, no stranger to natural disaster, offered us money. This is a country where the average per capita income is $4,000. The US is over $40,000, and the UK is over $29,000 (source: CIA World Fact Book).

From

The New Nation
Bangladesh's Independent News Source
Devastation by Katrina: Bush under mounting pressure for slow response
By BBC online
Sep 3, 2005, 11:56

Pressure on America’s oil and petrol supplies has been relieved by the International Energy Agency, which has agreed to release 60 million barrels from emergency supplies.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has thanked the many foreign governments who have offered aid in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

She said no offer had been turned down, and added that she had been particularly touched by the offer of $25,000 from Sri Lanka, which was devastated by last year’s tsunami.

© Copyright 2003 by The New Nation

[hockey man]

Good to hear some encouraging news.

[PrntRhd]

First, everyone who does disaster help for the US has a play book that they follow. We all know the US has seen many, many disasters and most are handled adequately. This hurricane was at first treated like a "normal" disaster.
I live out here on the West Coast and the local agencies tell citizens to prepare for disasters like fire/flood/earthquakes by having 5 gallons of bottled drinking water per person, plus spare batteries, radios, food, and first aid kits and the like prepared in case the "big one" hits. They tell us to prepare for a ten day period because it may take that long for help to arrive from government, and you must provide for yourself in the interim. Many ignore those recommendations and will blame others when crunch time comes to pass.

I am touched that Sri Lanka would offer help, this is not the time to blame the wealthier country..it is just time to offer help and save lives.

Send donations to the Red Cross marked for Katrina Relief.
The local stores out here are making it easy, with donations added to your purchases and the computer donates directly to the Red Cross.

[pop pop]

This part I agree with:

Originally posted by Variable.
You cannot simply follow your guidelines when the situation was like it was.

I'm conservative from way back in the traditional sense, not in the neo-con BS sense that it is today. I never thought I would utter these words but states rights can go to hell when American citizens are facing death and destruction. FEMA was originally created with extreme situations in mind and was supposed to be given almost ultimate power and authority so as to cut through all the bureaucratic muck and save people's lives.

Nobody, and especially not a president who has proudly proclaimed, "I want to lead", should have sat on his or her behind and said, I have a playbook to follow. That goes for the mayor, the governor, the head of FEMA, and the president. Tell the families down there that the reason so many died AFTER the hurricane, and the reason so many are still waiting six days later is we have a playbook to follow. You better go down there with a kevlar vest and an army of body guards.

[Steve]

I guess the question is "what took so long"? I really thought we were prepared for this kind of stuff. Someone's career is over, I'm sure.

It's nice to see what we can do once we get into gear. In the past 24 hours the response has taken giant steps. This is what I thought would happen 4-5 days ago. And it's good to see other countries helping us out. It is certainly appreciated.

I don't know of many folks who are prepared for a disaster of this scope. Five to ten days? Food, water, clothes, heating, cooling? Nope. Not very many could do that. Where I am, ice storms and blizzards are the natural disaster that is most likely. Producing heat would be the key issue. Each area of the country has potential problems.

It's going to be one heck of a cleanup. We're lucky to have the resources that we do.

[pop pop]

Excerpted from

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4210674.stm

New Orleans crisis shames Americans
By Matt Wells
BBC News, Los Angeles


A genuinely heroic mayor orders a total evacuation of the city the day before Katrina arrives, knowing that for decades now, New Orleans has been living on borrowed time.

The National Guard and federal emergency personnel stay tucked up at home.

The havoc of Katrina had been predicted countless times on a local and federal level - even to the point where it was acknowledged that tens of thousands of the poorest residents would not be able to leave the city in advance.

No official plan was ever put in place for them.

Here I would still have to ask, why weren't the school busses that are now half submerged used to evacuate those people before the storm hit?

Meanwhile, the poorest were similarly abandoned, as the horrifying images and stories from the Superdome and Convention Center prove.

The truth was simple and apparent to all. If journalists were there with cameras beaming the suffering live across America, where were the officers and troops?

Originally posted by Steve:
It's nice to see what we can do once we get into gear. In the past 24 hours the response has taken giant steps. This is what I thought would happen 4-5 days ago.

Exactly the point! That's what makes what has happened after the hurricane swept through criminal. Not just shameful. We could have done what we are doing now days ago, saved lives, and shortened the suffering. In the military, I think they call it dereliction of duty--you get court martialed for it. In the civilian world...criminal negligence.

[PrntRhd]

I found this explanation on a Canadian forum:
The Federal Government isn't responsible for how each and every state handles its own affairs such as who prepares for what situation and how they carry out evolutions like evacuating people from a given area. They will gladly weigh in at any point, but they must be requested.

Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin are responsible for how these pre-storm operations are carried out, just as they are
responsible for the safety of their people directly after the calamity until the outside help can get mobilized. There's no Federal overseer looking over their shoulders checking up on them. They had plenty of warning as far as what was headed their way, and frankly, it's not rocket science to pre-stage fleets of buses 3 or 4 days prior to landfall of the hurricane. On the other hand, if they weren't up to the task, they could have requested Federal help in that matter, but they didn't, did they?
The Governor and the Mayor were guilty of closing their eyes to the danger and just hoped the problem would pass once again. The Feds were guilty of thinking the danger had passed when the storm veered East into Mississippi and Alabama, and they were not prepared for levees failing with a less than direct hit.

And yes, 5 to 10 days on your own until help arrives is what they say if the Big one happens out here Steve. It may happen in my lifetime.

[gracious]

Hi all, it is indeed a very horrible time down here on the Gulf Coast. I would please ask that you pray for my step son (Matt) who is an EMT in New Orleans. I live in Gulf Shores, Al and he came here for a short break, as he put it "I am cracking up!"...he has seen some horrible things but bless his heart wanted to go back. We didn't try to talk him out of it, just loved on him, and sent him with provisions. Some of our friends in the police dept. gave him a bullet proof vest and took him out to see the firearms instructor. He is now also carrying a 38 with him. He feels a responsibility to be there to help. Some of our friends in Mobile are also dealing with tremendous damage to their homes, we are all still walking around in a daze, if it had gone further east we would have been in bad shape also. It is so hard for me to imagine that we were in New Orleans 2 wks. ago, visiting Matt and on the way home stopped at the Beau Rivage...I am still in shock. I don't think we will ever feel normal again down here...I am thankful that finally they have security down there...at least he will be safer now than a 3 days ago. My prayers go out to all who have been affected by this storm.

[YODA74]

During a normal disaster the Governor (i.e. sacrificial goat) is supposed to officially request the more extreme measures from the Feds; Martial Law be imposed by Fed troops and ask for the full help of the Federal Government( not just FEMA but a full fledged Federal military response).



state and local gov. has to step up and it goes into a chain of events the Fed.Gov. cannot just step in with military,The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878
this act bans the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines from participating in arrests, searches, seizure of evidence and other police-type activity on U.S. soil. The Coast Guard and National Guard troops under the control of state governors are excluded from the act. Now unless everyone wants to see a civil war..... If I were the Fed. Gov. I would never ever try another Waco...

It has to follow like this local and state and county police, then Coast Guard,national guard but only as a back-up seems they are a civilian force.But never federal military, you do that you might as well bring in the un and Nato troops,. Then we can really have a war on our hands...It's bad enough they have trampled the constitution in the ground.


Bush already declared a state of emergency before it even hit, that put the ball roleing into the hands of the Governor of each state and the mayors. Local Gov. dropped the ball they should have evacuated earlier and had transportation provided out of the city, this was in there contingincy plans. also telling people to go to the dome when they new damn good and well that they didn't even have one days drop of water or food was so ignorant that it is not to be beleived. They have known about these levey's since 1965 after Hurricain Betsy and no one had done nothing,Each state has to appropriate the Federal money given to them for there repairs and construction for there state if the Governor of the state thought in the slitest that the levey's could not and would not hold past a cat 3 then they should have raised hell on capital hill before hand. and demanded a referendum to beef up the levey's. But no everyone would rather play the blame game.

as a side note; I for one am real tired of the media turning everything into a feeding freenzy of dispair and people like jesse jackson and al sharpton always turning every disaster into a racial thing. this isn't about Black or white or hispanic or asin this is about humanbeings.Also the musicians in this country I pay to listen to there music not there political rederic. And I really resent the word REFUGIES these are americans for god sake treat them as such

[Steve]

... if the Big one happens out here Steve. It may happen in my lifetime.
Are you prepared, PR?

[PrntRhd]

Are you prepared, PR?
Yes and no, the water supply has to be constantly rotated to be useable, of course water heater holds 50 gallons if the house is still vertical. The canned food is there, the spare batteries and radio and tarp material is there. Of course that assumes you are at home when it hits. MRE meals are an alternative to canned food, you can get those at camping supply stores.

The point I was making is you have to prepare to take care of yourself and yours for a period until help arrives, if it is a big event help may be slow to find you. We have 5 million people in the Bay Area, how long to find and rescue 5 million if they don't help themselves? The ones who prepared have better chances to survive than those who don't.

In the Katrina preparations the local officials did not plan or insist on full evacuations, and many people lost their lives because of that. If people in those areas had the chance to help others get out and did not, they should understand they did wrong.

[PrntRhd]

Here is a partial list of offers of help from other countries:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.world.aid/index.html

[pop pop]

Earlier today I saw lists of countries and the forms of assistance offered. I guess I have to say that I opened mouth and inserted foot when I went off the other day. I was wrong.

[Paleo Pete]

One thing I forgot to comment on earlier...

But what about Arkansas, Illinois, Tennessee and the other surrounding states?

Louisiana is absorbing as many people as possible, we have almost 2000 here, in a town of 22,000 population. That means our town just grew by 10% in a few days...Texas is making space available in places like the Astrodome, I haven't heard much about what Arkansas is doing but there's not much within 100 miles of where I live that could hold more than maybe 500-1000 people, all really small towns for at least 100 miles.

Mississippi was hit by Katrina too, nobody expects them to do much more than take care of their own people, which I agree with completely, same for Alabama. Nothing else is very close, you're looking at an 8 hour drive to get to where I live, the northern portion of the state, and probably 10 hours or more in a bus full of people and havng to stop more often than I would for gas and bathroom breaks. Houston is 7-8 hours, Austin and San Antonio about the same, (all this is give or take an hour or so) so anywhere else you're looking at basically a two day trip.

How do you do a two day trip on a school bus? With no restroom in the rear? Seats don't recline and are not at all comfortable enough to sleep in, plus I'm sure there are considerations I haven't even thought of. So the logistics of trying to mass-transport evacuees to other locations not already taking in all they can is a big problem.

I saw a convoy of electric company trucks headed south Friday, not sure where they came from, but it had to be Arkansas or north of there, close to 20 trucks and bucket trucks, 3 people ridinig in most of them. I know they couldn't have come from Louisiana, the Arkansas state line is 8 miles north of where we met them and there's nothing but a small community there. So other states are helping in that manner, but sending evacuees to other states would pose some transportation problems that might be difficult to deal with. You can't find many places suitable for the 45-50 people a school bus can carry to sleep, and I doubt if they are able to carry along blankets and so forth to sleep on the ground at rest areas. Not to mention the elderly who can't sleep on the ground...nor would I ask them to...

I've looked up asome info online, but rarely watch TV (never have, probably never will) but I'm wondering about one thing I haven't heard about yet. I talked to a couple a few days ago in a resale store, the man was still looking for his 14 year old son, the lady had just found her kids and knew they were OK.

Has any kind of identification clearinghouse been set up, so that parents and children can get photographs posted, preferably online, so people can let separated family members know where they are? There's no telling where the man's son is or if he's still alive, if he survived and got out, he could be in Houston now and the man has no way of finding out that I know of.

I'm building a computer to take to the local temporary shelter, so people can get online access to register with FEMA, email family etc, waiting now for the local beaurocrats to decide what they want to do. GRRRR...nobody can simply make a decision and say "bring it on". I have to wait for the same beaurocrats who didn't get off their duffs and do something days ago to have another meeting and decide what to do...One of my nieces is helping out, she works for Chase bank in their bookkeeping office, and told me they made 3 buildings available. Other family members are making travel trailers etc available, and some people in the area are making spare bedrooms available. There was a concert Saturday night, local bands, two canned goods to get in...

Anybody know if anything has been done to provide for a way families can try and contact each other? I'm betting it's probably already started, I think Red Cross or FEMA usually does things likekthat, just haven't heard anything about it yet.

I quite agree with a lot of the comments posted here, the school buses now underwater should have been used to get people out of there beforehand. The mayor and governor should have acted in advance, it's been a known fact something this serious could easily destroy New Orleans for a long time. It's a bowl sitting below sea level, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that if a serious hurricane like this one gets even close, you evacuate now and debate about it later.

When a strong hurricane headed for Galveston around 1980 or so, Galveston was evacuated before it hit land. I-45 (the only way in or out) was closed to inbound traffic and all 4 lanes used for the exodus. One day and there were no more than 200 people in Galveston total, most of them refused to leave. Fortunately very few of those died. All it took was some quick decision making and a few hours overtime for the police, who had to direct traffic.

The same should have been done here in New Orleans, and wasn't. As has been mentioned earlier, the Mayor and Governor have to request federal aid, the feds can't just step in uninvited...until AFTER it becomes a disaster...The mayor and governor failed to do so, if you want to blame someone, I suppose those are the two most likely suspects.

[poppy]

Quote from Paleo Pete:
Anybody know if anything has been done to provide for a way families can try and contact each other? I'm betting it's probably already started, I think Red Cross or FEMA usually does things likekthat, just haven't heard anything about it yet.
There are numerous sites that have popped up where you can post info for missing family or friends or find out if any have reported. The Salvation Army has one and there are many others. I live in the Florida panhandle and have lots of friends in the NOL area and the Mississippi Gulf Coast. I used to live in Biloxi and worked out of NOL and have spent a great deal of time sifting through these sites to try and locate friends.

If the person or a family member has the means of connecting to the net, then they can post the status. Here (http://www.bergedalen.com/katrina/survived.aspx) is one link that's a database compiled. You can enter as much info as you have, do a search and you will be able to find people who have posted on their status. I was able to locate a couple of friends using this database when I was unable to locate by other means. Of course, it is only as good as the information submitted.

[Budfred]

Even this far north we are taking evacuees... We have something like 5000 coming to Minnesota... I believe Michigan is taking 10,000 and surrounding states are all taking some... We are also sending people and other resources down there in large numbers...

The government may have largely dropped the ball, but the people have not... Unfortunately, we can't act as quickly as the government could have and a lot of people suffered while things were getting setup...

[PrntRhd]

Pete:
Has any kind of identification clearinghouse been set up, so that parents and children can get photographs posted, preferably online, so people can let separated family members know where they are? There's no telling where the man's son is or if he's still alive, if he survived and got out, he could be in Houston now and the man has no way of finding out that I know of.
The National Clearinghouse for Missing and Exploited Children is using their database to get kids reconnected to parents after Katrina. Usually used for kidnapping and abductions, this is certainly a proper use of their database under these circumstances.
Craigslist.com is running a list where evacuees can find job listings and post skills.

[pop pop]

Notification of family in times of disaster or family member death is actually one of the many jobs that the Red Cross takes on. They used to be quite good at it, I don't know about now or with something of this magnitude. When I was in the USAF and my dad died, they found a way to find and notify me. I was on top of a mountain in the middle of the desert. I could not believe they found me.

MSNBC was actually doing something very cool the other day for people still in NOLA. They were allowing them to get on camera, say who they were, and let their families know they were OK. I was impressed.

[PrntRhd]

A large list of sites to help has been posted at CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2005/katrina/help.center/

[hockey man]

I can't even begin to fathom the pain and urgency these poor people have to go through. Tomorrow my school will be taking donations to help the recovery, so I plan to do that. My mom is missing me after the day I left for college, I can't imagine how hart broken those mothers are who don't know if their children are alive. I keep them in my prayers.

[Variable]

Steve said, I don't know of many folks who are prepared for a disaster of this scope. Five to ten days? Food, water, clothes, heating, cooling? Nope. Not very many could do that. Where I am, ice storms and blizzards are the natural disaster that is most likely. Producing heat would be the key issue. Each area of the country has potential problems.

Steve, I am the father of three and live in the country, outside an urban area. I see it as my responsibility to my family to be able to provide for them in case of an emergency. I know many people who can go a few weeks without any help from anyone. It is not difficult to prepare your home to be self sufficient for several weeks. It is simply a matter of planning and purchasing the necessities. Since many items can be stored for years on end it is not difficult to do. It used to be that people planned for disasters whether big or small and had stored food and fireplaces or woodstoves. Now, many people rely on electricity for everything in their home. If you do, you need to plan more. You would think if you live in a bowl separated by two large bodies of water you might plan for something like this........ At least a little bit. I was watching Fox news and they showed a family outside their house in bathing suits swimming in an inflatable pool that was "fairly" clean and surrounding them was 4 feet of black water. This was six days after the event. The kids were diving in and having fun and waving at the chopper!! These people were prepared.... Seemed to be doing fine. No need for Jeraldo to rescue them..

It is not a matter of being rich or poor. Many people who are poor, that I know, are in better shape to survive a disaster than many wealthier people... Several times we have been without power here for many days, ice storms and hurricanes caused several, we never had to leave, nor ask anyone for help. I see people on the TV in New Orleans who were totally helpless and many of them were healthy mentally competent adults. No excuses for these people.

Urban areas are set up to need constant resupply from the outside. Lot's of people who rely on other people for everything they need in cities. During a disaster civil breakdown is common, many big cities do not allow you be legally armed. Only the lawless are armed.

People on TV are now asking if the Blacks in New Orleans can sue the Federal Government for what happened. People who think like that are not what makes America great IMHO.

Variable

[Steve]

In my area wood stoves and kerosine heaters are common. But not everyone has them. If the power goes out here during the winter, heat is essential.

If I lived in New Orleans, a boat of some kind would seem like a good idea. Even a canoe would be handy down there.

Food and water are the easy parts. A propane camp stove for cooking and boiling water goes along with them. Camping gear in general is good to have. Tents, sleeping bags, cots, backpacks, all could help.

The urban areas certainly are set up for problems in a disaster. No doubt about it. Not everyone can live in the country, though. When problems happen, city folk are always going to need more attention than the people out in the country. If it had been just a power outage New Orleans would have faired better. It is the flood that's the hardest to deal with.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

But Steve,
Most of these people who were left, were welfare recipients in a clime foreign to us.

Coleman Fuel? You actually use it to heat your home? :eek: Who needs heat in La?

[YODA74]

http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26 In case someone wants to play the blam game....

[Steve]

Most of these people who were left, were welfare recipients in a clime foreign to us.
Yes indeed. Poor folks. If you don't have a car (even if you do), and you don't have enough money to rent a motel room for a week (or a month), and the last dozen times they called for an evacuation nothing happened, what would you do? If they are going to call for the evacuation of a city, they best have some way to get the people out.

Coleman Fuel? You actually use it to heat your home? Who needs heat in La?
Coleman fuel? There are alot of folks around here who use K1 Kerosene or propane for supplimental or emergency heat.

No one needs anymore heat in La, but I sure bet a lot of folks could have used a canoe... :p

[classicsoftware]

OK Let's play:

THE BLAME GAME

Let's see who is really at fault. The runner ups are:


The Mayor: Who was soooooo stupid he did not call for an evacuation of the city that required 36-72 hours until there was 20 hours left before the storm. I think Mayor street of Philadelphia is no longer the worst mayor in the country.
The Governor: Who should have called up the National Guard way before the storm hit.
The President: Who should have acted like a leader from the beginning and not wait until his poll numbers were about be flushed into Lake Pantchetran. It would also be helpful if he had not treated FEMA like a red headed step child.
The head of FEMA: If there was a person less prepared to do his job, I don't know who it is. When Ted Kopppel knows more than you, it's time to look for a new job.


But the Grand prize winner today. The people who bear the most Blame and are the most resposible and every single one of them should be voted out of office. Liberal, Conservative, Democrat and Republican:

The United States Congress

535 of the most selfish bastards on the face of the earth. They spent billions in last hughway bill alone. If they really cared, they could have done with a little less pork and fixed these levies before the storm. Look how fast they found ten billion for disaster relief. Why couldn;t they come with 200 million it would have taken to prevent this. When you figure it out, let me know.

If you want to fix it it's simple. Vote against ALL incumbent Senators and Congressman. If we all do it, the culture of Washington will change. If not, we'll repeat this disaster somewhere else.

[poppy]

535 of the most selfish bastards on the face of the earth. They spent billions in last hughway bill alone. If they really cared, they could have done with a little less pork and fixed these levies before the storm. Look how fast they found ten billion for disaster relief. Why couldn;t they come with 200 million it would have taken to prevent this. When you figure it out, let me know.
classicsoftware, I have to agree on this. I know Emeril Lagasse says "pork fat rules", but the huge amounts Congress appropriated on the highway bill was a little over the top. Some of those projects do not serve any real purpose at all. And to top it off, the Speaker of the House's state gets a big chunk of it and he made the remarks he did concerning rebuilding! It is really a shame and embarrasment! :o :o

[Fruss Tray Ted]

Steve, I didn't assume you use Coleman fuel at all. It was just a way to make my post short. K-1 is not a priority in that area it would seem as well.

I have some over the board-rules pics from the tsunami from of recent, but there doesn't seem to be any of katrina? Satellite shots, is that all? IMO there's some details being withheld even greater than what the media is allowed to show us.

Scrape off all the buildings and give me a big sandy wading beach... No city belongs below sea level.

Who would want to be Mayor or Governor of a 'sinking ship'? :rolleyes:

[PrntRhd]

Scrape off all the buildings and give me a big sandy wading beach... No city belongs below sea level
You have got that right!

FYI, Sacramento used to be a swamp where the American and Sacramento Rivers joined to make a 100 mile long lake each winter. They finally set up a railway that brought material down the mountain from the Sierras and raised the entire center of town 23 feet, making what was formerly the ground floor of buildings into basements. Stopped the flooding of downtown.

Santa Rosa (Bassman's area) has the Russian River which regularly floods, in order to qualify for any further FEMA assistance, residences in the flood plain must raise their homes on stilts above the level of historic floods and have blow-out walls in the lower story to allow flood water to flow through without sweeping the building away.

Why New Orleans was allowed to remain in its precarious condition below sea level is beyond my understanding. Every study told them it would eventually flood.

[Variable]

ClassicSoftware said: 535 of the most selfish bastards on the face of the earth.

Don't sugar coat it! I think the chances of anyof what you say happening slim. I am sure that many in New Orleans think their Mayor is a great guy who got on TV and said what needed to be said. They will ignore the fact that he didn't follow the disaster plan his office helped set up. Democrats have been playing pork barrel politics for 80 years, the Republicans have control now they will get their share of the pie. Turn about is fair play. No it isn't right. But it isn't really surprising. My Pop used to have a low opinion of all politicians. I told him the newer Conservatives were different. I am beginning to think he was right all along.

[pop pop]

That's right, you can file for aid on the FEMA website http://www.fema.gov/register.shtm

HOWEVER...you must use Windoze :mad: --not Linux, not Mac OS--you must use IE6 :mad: --not FireFox, not Opera, not NetScape, not Safari--and you must use Java.

One possible workaround--It appears that FireFox extensions like User Agent Switching may work :) but this is unconfirmed.

More here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9231271/

[Paleo Pete]

Further Developments

That's right, you can file for aid on the FEMA website

One problem...the servers are so overloaded the websites will not load. I just came fromt he civic center where we have a place set up for hurricane victims relocated to this area to pick up supplies and try to register with FEMA or Red Cross. With a cable connection (Cox) I watched 3 computers including my LInux machine sit there for 20 minutes and not one got a page to load.

I tried to set up the Linux machine so people could find relatives or register to let relatives know where they are, not one of the pages on the CNN list will load all the way. i tried Galeon, Konqueror, Mozilla and Firefox, same results with all, and of course none of them will use the FEMA registration page to begin with, it's not IE. That sucks and it's stupid, the most unsecure piece of crap in the known universe and FEMA set up their website so it's required...what moron did that????

We have about 2000 people here who can't register with FEMA or locate relatives, one man I talked to has a phone in a motel room and has tried about 25 calls at 50 cents each, never got through once.

Phone lines are overloaded, webservers hosting sll the hurricane related websites are overloaded, so I think the people here are tryiong to scrounge up paper forms now so they can try and get people registered...

This is a bigger mess than anyone ever suspected, I'm pretty sure the government better know by now they are not even remotely prepared for a serious emergency.

Another observation...I just tried explaining to a few of those people why they can't get online to register...most have very little knowledge of computers or how the Internet works, the most common comment I heard was "They should just set up more servers"...It's hard to get it across that it's not as simple as going out and buying a $500 computer at Wally World...yeah, the government and FEMA supposedly have plenty money to work with, but a server bank is a whole 'nother story...

Anyway, the people are mostly out of there and in safer places, now we can't get word to their relatives that they are OK, and they can't access any of the related websites to find out if their relatives are OK or not...

That's what I'm seeing from inside the building, thought I would post a bit about it here and let people know. If you have friends or relatives involved in this and can contact them, please let them know the resources are out there it just might take some time to access them due to seriously overloaded webservers. I managed to get the point across a couple of times like this "How many millions of people are trying to do the exact same thing right now all over the country? The webservers simply cannot handle the traffic."

[hockey man]

[QUOTE=pop popHOWEVER...you must use Windoze :mad: --not Linux, not Mac OS--you must use IE6 :mad: --not FireFox, not Opera, not NetScape, not Safari--and you must use Java.[/QUOTE]

They should start another server or do something to make it faster. Think about this, you build a pc for the survivors to use and you put linux on it because it's free. Only to find you need MS products to access the site :mad: . They have some fixen to do!

[Paleo Pete]

By the way, thanks for the links guys, I haven't had time to dig around for that kind of thing and didn't think about it till later, when it wasn't possible to go looking around. Had to get things up and running then worry about side issues. Not that this is any less important, it just wasn't the original purpose for getting this machine setup. Then on the way to get it set up and running I happened to think about someone I had talked to who was still looking for a 14 year old son and wondered if or what was available to locate family members scattered all over shelters in at least a half dozen states.

Things got a bit better this afternoon, the volunteers were able to get a few registrations to go through, but it was still hit and miss. Left the Linux machine there and used this thread as a reference to get to the locator lists quick and painless. That computer will be available for people to sign up or look for relatives via the links on the CNN page, mainly the Red Cross list, it being the most prominent. Also to access web mailif needed. Set up a "disposable" public user account and installed Firefox, it's working perfect as long as the servers are not overloaded and webpages can load at all...Try to tell me an old Celeron 500 is useless for anything but a paperweight... :D [I left my account still available, sufficiently passworded, so if anything gets trashed out I can still get into the OS, delete and recreate the public account. Takes about 15 minutes including two reboots. I don't expect to have trouble in this situation, but might as well be prepared...]