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pokerguy
09-16-2005, 04:20 AM
Hi there,

I am a professional poker player and as such, play a lot of poker online. I am about to make a switch over to playing almost full time online, in order to stay home more, so I need to get myself a new Desktop PC. It's main use will be for Poker, as I am a Mac guy and will still use my Mac for most everything else. Having said that though, as this is my profession I want to get the best system I can as this is not an area to skimp...

After a few weeks of getting advice from friends and searching around the internet I have deduced that rather than buy something off the shelf it is better to build it for what you want - I am not techincally minded, but have decided to get a system from Monarch Computer, as they only charge a build fee of $49 which seems reasonable, and then I can get what I want exactly.

As I said this will be used mainly for internet poker, websurfing, running some poker tracking software, and possibly for recording TV etc. I plan on getting 2 large monitors (probably the 24" Dell's) and will be playing as many as 8 games at the same time, plus other web activity. I have no interest in gaming such as Doom etc so that is not an issue.

Here is what I have come up with so far, with the help of a friend, and the guy at Monarch: (I have posted my doubts/question under each item)

Case: - Antec Sonata Piano Black Quiet Mid Tower
(This was recommended to me and I like the look of it, but am open to other suggestions)
Motherboard: - Asus A8V-E Deluxe K8T890 Audio/GB-LAN/IEE
(Seems to be highly thought of, but is the SLI version better?)
Processor: - AMD Athlon 64 4000+ 1MB 90nm Rev. E San D
(Would I be better to get a Dual Core? Or is this a good one?)
Memory: - DDR (400) 3200 - 2 GB (2 pcs 1GB) Corsair

Hard Drive: - SATAII - Western Digital Caviar SE 250 GB
(As I dont really need much storage space would I be better to get a 36GB 10K raptor drive?I assume that will make everything faster, or am i mistaken?)

NEC ND-3540A 16X Dual Layer DVD±
(Dont really plan to use an optical drive for anything, so I assume this is enough for loading system, and backing up if needed)Video Card: - eVGA GeForce 6800 GT 512MB (This is the area I am most confused - I am assuming that as I want to run multiple large monitors that I need a card with dual DVI outs, and this was the highest mb for the money i found - is there a better choice?)
Operating System: 210111 - Microsoft Windows XP Professional w/ SP2
(Is this the way to go?)
Monitors (x2) - probably either the Dell 24" - anything else I should look at?
I could work with 2x20" or 21" as well. The Samsungs seen to be rated high?

I would really appreciate any feedback and advice on this, before I go ahead and buy anything, as being a Mac guy I have not really kept up on any PC stuff the past few years, and dont want to either get something I dont need, or something that will not work for me. Basically I want everything to be as fast as possible, if that helps......

Please help me - Thanks in advance - :)

Erik
09-16-2005, 06:20 AM
I have never really played online poker, but I can't imagine it would be very taxing on the computer system. My main concern would be that you will be spending a lot of time online, and probably sending financial information over the internet. Make sure you have a good antivirus, firewall (software and hardware would be best), and anti-spyware applications installed.

You also didn't mention a video card.

The HD issue is really up to you. Yes the WD Raptors are great performers, but smaller and more expensive. You are really the only one who can judge if they will give you enough space. I am currently building a computer too and opted against them because of the small size, I like to save everything on my HD. If you won't be doing much more than installing Windows it would be a good move.

Defenitely go for Windows XP. It is the best version of Windows yet. My guess is that using Windows will give you no problems with being able to play your poker games. Windows XP is the most secure, and will be the version getting support for the longest time.

pokerguy
09-16-2005, 06:49 AM
Thanks for that - I did list the video card it was just kind of obscured

Video Card: - eVGA GeForce 6800 GT 512MB (This is the area I am most confused - I am assuming that as I want to run multiple large monitors that I need a card with dual DVI outs, and this was the highest mb for the money i found - is there a better choice?)


Can you reccommend anything in the way of firewall/antivirus? - I have gotten so used to not needing any of this with the Mac i dont know where to start. I used to use Zone Alarm which I like a lot - is that still a good product?

I will probably go with the Raptor as I dont need anything more than a few GB so a 36GB Raptop would be fine, and if that would make it even a little faster it would be the best choice for me. How does a Raptor with an 8mb compare to one of the 7200 drives with a 16mb?

hockey man
09-16-2005, 10:52 AM
First off, I would get this mobo. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131540) It is built on the nForce 4 chipset. I haven't heard anything about the model you have listed, but the nForce 4 is the newest and best. That video card would be great for your system. It has dual DVI outputs. For a CPU if you are going to be running multiple applications, a dual core would be the way to go. The MOBO I listed supports Athlon 64 X2 CPUs. This (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103562) would be your CPU then.

For Ram look at Kingston, Crucial, or Corsair. Just make sure that it is 184pin DDR. Since you will be running all those apps, I would recommend at least 1 Gig minimum.

About Raptors, I have heard they only really shave of seconds. So maybe get a smaller 7200 drive like a 160 Gig.

Monitors, DON"T GET A DELL!! I'm not to familiar with monitors so others here can give you recommendations.

poppy
09-16-2005, 01:26 PM
First and foremost, budget? This will go a long way to ensure that the best components that work together are selected and still stay within the budget. Of course, being a professional poker player, I'm sure that all of this will be some sort of tax write off. From your selection with Monarch it looks like we are talking in the $1600 and up range. I have to leave for an appointment right now, but I will quickly address some apparent issues.

First, I think that some viewers of the forum may not know that by going with Monarch they will assemble and test all of the components providing that you select from their list of items. If you select outside of their recommendations, they will ship that part separate and not test it for compatibility. It will be up to you to install and make it work. That being said, I will have to say that Monarch gets good reviews and does a good job. Just note that now they charge $59 build fee, not that's a big deal when most other companies with less than stellar ratings charge $79 or more.

As I said this will be used mainly for internet poker, websurfing, running some poker tracking software, and possibly for recording TV etc. I plan on getting 2 large monitors (probably the 24" Dell's) and will be playing as many as 8 games at the same time, plus other web activity. I have no interest in gaming such as Doom etc so that is not an issue.
AMD is suited for gaming, but for online poker and the possibility of video editing etc, I think an alternative would be to consider an Intel based system. The Intel system would be better suited for video editing, but with the right components you can achieve a good gaming experience also. saphalline, the resident hardware guru will come along and offer up his sage advice.

Case: - Antec Sonata Piano Black Quiet Mid Tower
Cases are a matter of personal preference, but Antec has a solid reputation; however, just make sure it is the Sonata II with the 450W PSU and not the Sonata which only had 380W. Another alternative would be the Antex TX1050B w/500W power supply. It will take just about everything you throw at it, but make sure you add 3 80mm case cooling fans to it.

Motherboard: - Asus A8V-E Deluxe K8T890 Audio/GB-LAN/IEE
First of all, this board will not support a dual core processor. You want to keep upgradeability in mind. Secondly, the ASUS A8N-SLI Premium has had numerous reports of this particular board being finicky with RAM selection and despite that it is listed as supporting up to 4GB of RAM, numerous reports exist that it will not. Even Monarch will tell you that it will not support 4GB RAM. Just something to think about for future upgradeability in the RAM area. Instead, consider the ABIt A8N-SLI nForce 4 and recommended by Monarch as the alternative to the ASUS A8N SLI Premium. I'm sure some will disagree with this statement, but that's just my view and to me stability issues would be a major concern.

Processor: - AMD Athlon 64 4000+ 1MB 90nm Rev. E San D
It's a good choice for a processor, but for the little difference in price I would agree with hockey man and why not go ahead with the dual core if the budget will allow and you are inclined to go with an AMD-based system.

Video Card: - eVGA GeForce 6800 GT 512MB (This is the area I am most confused - I am assuming that as I want to run multiple large monitors that I need a card with dual DVI outs, and this was the highest mb for the money i found - is there a better choice?)
I think the 6800GT will be a good card, but saphalline is more of the expert in this matter.

I have to run now but will come back and visit this when I return from my appointment. In the meantime if saphalline gets to this then by all means his wisdom will be invaluable to you.

poppy
09-16-2005, 02:25 PM
the Antex TX1050B w/500W power supply
Sorry for the typo, meant Antec TX1050B.

poppy
09-16-2005, 04:01 PM
Okay, I'm back. As I stated before I think you should also consider the possibility of an Intel-based system also as I think it will offer better things like video editing, etc. You can then compare and decide what's right for you.

Knowing that you are limited to some degree by Monarch's configurator, I quickly put together a list for an Intel-based system with what Monarch has to offer. I am sure saphalline would be more than happy to make any changes to it and rightly so since he really is an expert at the hardware side of all this. Here's my list:

100252 Antec Performance TX1050B w/500W PSU
110409 ASUS P5ND2-SLI Deluxe nForce 4 motherboard
120317 Intel P4 660 3.6GHz CPU Retail with HSF
800018 Shin-Etsu G675 Thermal Grease (It's an option, but I recommend you have them do it)
140122 Corsair ValueSelect DDR2-(533) 4200 2GB Kit
150322 Seagate Barracuda SATA HD ST3250823AS 250GB hard drive
160236 NEC ND-3540A 16X Dual Layer DVD±RW
170508 TEAC 1.44MB 3.5" Floppy
190115 eVGA GeForce 6800GT 512MB DDR3 PCI-Express Dual DVI video card
210111 MS Windows XP Pro w/SP2
210613 Nero 6.3 Suite (they will make you order it because the optical drive is OEM)
210601 Cyberlink PowerDVD (same reason as above)

This roughly comes to about $1722.00 before shipping. Also note, that the build fee is in this figure but for some reason their build fee for the Intel system in $75.00

I hope this will give you a comparison between the AMD and an Intel-based system. saphalline, feel free to critique the above list. My feelings won't be hurt as this is how I learn. :D

p.s. Don't forget to make allowances for extra cooling fans for the case, keyboard, mouse, speakers, etc. As far as the monitors are concerned, I'll let the experts handle that, but I will suggest that if you have somewhere nearby go and look at various brands to help you decide. Seeing a particular monitor in person goes a long way in your decision what you think is good for your particular case.

poppy
09-16-2005, 04:13 PM
Can you reccommend anything in the way of firewall/antivirus? - I have gotten so used to not needing any of this with the Mac i dont know where to start. I used to use Zone Alarm which I like a lot - is that still a good product?
Sorry, I almost forgot that you asked this question also. Read this sticky, http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15179, and if you have any questions ask away.

pokerguy
09-16-2005, 04:34 PM
Thanks for all the input so far. Now that you have built him up as a God, I am eagerly awaiting saphalline's input on all this :p

The reason I was looking at the AMD over the Pentium is that all my friends told me that AMD was the better product, and some of them use their systems for the same use. But I will take on board what you say, and check out the Pentiums as well.

And I will take a look at that case, and also the Dual Core processors.

Regarding the video card - is it me, or does the eVGA GeForce 6800GT 512MB DDR3 PCI-Express Dual DVI video card seem like an amazing price? It was the only card in the list at Monarch that was 512MB but was the same price as the other cards that were 256 or even 128. I cant find too many reviews on it though, and everyone I know has the Radeon X800XL and raves about it, but it only has 1 DVI and the platinum edition with 2 DVI was a lot more $, and I wasnt sure if I needed to got that crazy as I wont be doing any heavy gaming. Be interested to see what saphalline's input is on this, as you say he is the expert.

Budget - I don't mind spending up to $2000 or more, but just dont want to get fancy parts that I really dont need. The upgradability factor seems to make sense though, as I may stick with this unit for quite some time and just upgrade parts when needed.

Monitors - Why would you say dont go for the Dell? I would be very interested to hear about any alternatives. I need to get either 2 19,20 or 21" units or some kind of larger screen such as the Dell or Apple Cinema. The only stipulation here is that any monitor MUST have at least 1600x1200 resolution as this is the minimum you need to have 4 poker games laid out on screen with no overlap, and I need to be able to get up to 8 with the 2 monitors. Does anyone know anything about this monitor - seems like a viable option? In all honesty I would rather spend more on the monitor and less on the PC, especially if the monitor is also Mac Compatible and will work with my Powerbook.

Looking forward to some more advice - This forum is great by the way, and I really appreciate all your help.

:) :) :) :) :)

pokerguy
09-16-2005, 04:53 PM
Took a look at the other case suggestions - They are both a little larger and heavier, but I guess that doesnt matter much. Do I really need that higher wattage? The reason I was attracted to the Sonata is that it came with the power suppply, and had a fan or 2 included I think. I guess since I am getting Monarch to build it for me, that if I do go with one of the others and choose extra fans/supplies then they will attach those for me. Wont having more than the basic fans make it all rather noisy though. Plus (I know this may be a begginner question) How do these fans work - do they come on automatically as needed or do you have to know when to turn them on. I have a very limited knowlege of all this stuff, so once I get the finished product from Monach I dont want to have to do anything else.

I had also looked at the Thermaltake cases but they all seemed to have lots of seethrohg sides and flashing lights, and I dont need or want all that. Just a plain case that is good quality. Anyway let me know what you think.

If I was to go for the Antec Performance TX1050B w/500W PSU. what extra fans should I get?

Thanks again for all the help guys. Hopefully with your help I will put the perfect system together for myself.

:)

pokerguy
09-16-2005, 08:51 PM
Ok I have just chatted with a different guy at Monarch, and this has led me to believe that a lot of this is personal choice, as he disagreed with the other guy I had spoken too the day before on some of the choices. Anyway I have taken a lot of what has been said here on board, and changed the config to this:
Case
Antec Sonata II Piano Black Quiet Mid Tower 450Watt ATX12V
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=100588
(Thanks for the suggestion - I looked at the Antex TX1050B but decided that it was a little big for what I need - the guy at Monarch suggested I also get an additional fan for this - he said a 92mm one - any thoughts? Is it needed?)

Motherboard
DFI Lan Party NForce4 SLI-DR Audio/GB-LAN/IEEE/PCI-E/SATA/DDR/ATX 64 939
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=110222
(I was planning to go with the Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe nForce4 SLI Audio/GB-LAN/IEEE/USB/PCI-E/SATA/DDR/ATX 64 939 but the guy at Monarch said that they have been having a lot of trouble with these, and the DFI would be a better choice - any thoughts on this comment?)

Processor
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Dual-Core 512K Per Core 90nm (939) (Retail Box-w-Fan)
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=120244
(This seems to be everyone's idea of the way to go, assuming I go with AMD)

Memory
Corsair 2GB kit (2 x 1GB) TWINX2048-3200PRO DDR-400 (PC-3200)
(Got this from the Corsair Reccomendation for this Mobo, but am open to any suggestions of course)

Hard Drive
Western Digital 36 GB 8MB 360GD Raptor SATA 10K RPM (WD360GD)
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=150237
(Decided to go with the 10K and this is more space than I will need so figured stick with this instead of the 74G model)

Video Card
BFG Geforce 7800 GTX OC 256MB
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=190490
(This is still the one that I am most confused about - I have got a lot of conflicting suggestions - this is the one that the guy at Monarch suggested would be a better choice than the 512mb one I had previously - it seems very expensive, but presumably is one of the best?)

DVD
NEC ND-3540A 16X Dual Layer DVD±RW (Black) (OEM)
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=160236

How is this looking now? It comes out at $1,855.98

Looking forward to some feedback later - Thanks :)

poppy
09-16-2005, 09:34 PM
For an AMD-based system looking good.

Case: Get the extra cooling fan; if it was me I would look at the Antec P180 and get a PC Power & Cooling 510W power supply. Of course, this really bumps up the price but I think it is worth it if the budget allows.
Motherboard: Reserve my opinion until I can get time to look at the specs; still think the Abit AN8 SLI would be a good choice. I too have read a lot of people having problems in the memory area for that ASUS board.
Processor: Good choice
Memory: Corsair is excellent choice
Hard Drive: Raptor is a good choice, but seriously consider the 74GB. I don't know what else you will be placing on the drive but you should allocate at least around 10GB for the operating system.
Video Card: Can't beat the 7800GTX
DVD: Should be a good choice

saphalline
09-17-2005, 01:52 AM
Ok, just finished reading this thread. Rather painfully, I might add. Let's take a look at the key point here:

I need to get myself a new Desktop PC. It's main use will be for PokerNow then... unless you're playing some sort of new online poker game with a Doom3 or HL2-based 3D engine with SM 3.0 support, what in the hell is the point of all this high-end hardware?? :eek: All I can say is WTF!? Buying a dual-core A64 X2 and a 7800 GTX and then relegating it to 2D online Java duties definitely qualifies as "overspending"!

Just recently in a thread, I said "spending more than $100 on a vid card means you're a gamer". Now granted I perhaps should have been more specific and said "a 3D gamer", but still, that should have been implied. As for the CPU power required of online games, well... I've got a Celeron 433MHz sitting in this room with me. ;) You don't need anything fancy. In fact, with your budget, you could probably build two systems that would fit your needs and still have money left over for those two large flat panel monitors you want.

I'm not really sure where to go from here. And of course this is just my opinion. If you really want to spend all that money on hardware that you will never ever fully utilize... well it's your money. Let me know your thoughts.

pokerguy
09-17-2005, 02:39 AM
Hi saphalline,

Thanks so much for your reply. You are now telling me what I had thought when I first started considering this a few weeks back, which is that perhaps I don't need to go too high end as it will be mostly used for Poker.

The majority of the Poker sites do use a downloaded client as oppose to a Java, which is why I need to get the PC in the first place. Up till now I have been struggling along using Virtual PC on my Mac, but it ends up lagging so much that it is proving unusable, and will certainly be the case when I start multi-tabling up to 8 games at a time. But if a more basic model will do, what should I be looking for? Do I even need to build one?

I will not do any gaming whatsoever. My main concern is that I have a video card that can run multiple monitors well - If I dont need to get a top shelf card for that, what video card should I look at?

Should I just get an 'off the shelf' PC from Dell or similar, but with a good video card and lots of Ram to handle the multitabling? Any suggestions?

Whilst I can justify spending the money, I certainly dont want to get anything I dont need, as I could take the extra money and spend it on some really nice monitors, or on some new Mac gear.

Anyway let me know what you think. Your opinin seems to be held in high regard here so I really appreciate your help in pointing me in the right direction (or in this case away from the wrong direction!)

Hope to hear back from you soon,

:)

saphalline
09-17-2005, 03:16 AM
Well first of all, what are the connection options with your displays? Are they DVI only? Or can they do VGA, too?

Secondly, I'm imagining some sort of Celeron D or Sempron64 system for a budget direction. For upgradability in the future (if you so desire it in your non-Mac) then going with a fairly simple Athlon64 system for a bit more money would make sense. Some of the other specs will stay, like the RAM and hard drive recommendations, but the core components will have to go. Naturally this will reduce your expected bill by quite a bit. ;)

Thirdly, I don't think an off-the-shelf or OEM system would be right for you. The type of non-support that companies like Dell and HP offer is something of a cruel joke for a Mac user like yourself. :p The smaller builders like Monarch will be as good as you can get in the world of PC tech support. As you may have guessed, the "quality" of tech support that the PC companies offer in general is a large part of why forums like this exist. Stay here and you'll be safe.

pokerguy
09-17-2005, 04:04 AM
Thanks again.

I havent bought the monitors yet - I am looking at either the 24" Dells, or the Samsung or Viewsonic 20.1"s. They all accept both DVI and VGA I believe - I was assuming though that DVI would be the better option, which is why I was looking for a dual DVI video card. But perhaps you could suggest a good video card that would power these monitors in a 2+ set up, but would not be overkill as like you say there will be no gaming.

I definitely would like to avoid getting anything from Dell or similar, as like you say it is not going to sit well with me. So if I do go ahead and get a built one at Monarch, what would your advice be?

Should I stick with the same case/DVD/Ram/HD, and just scale down on the Graphics/CPU and motherboard?

What do you think?

If I went for a Sempron, what would be a good motherboard/proc combo?

I really appreciate your advice. A friend of mine just said to me that for what I will be using it for, I would be unlikely to ever need a 64 system, so perhaps the Sempron is the way to go for me.

Its just the graphics card that is the problem - I really dont know what to get and the more I look the more confused I get.

Help me saphalline :)

saphalline
09-17-2005, 03:50 PM
DVI or VGA - it really doesn't matter. They both work. And of course the main concern here is that a dual-DVI vid card would cost a fortune! :p One DVI & one VGA is standard and quite adequate.

Ok, after going through the custom configurators at Monarch, here's what I've come up with:

Monarch Versall Custom Desktop

Case - 100260 - Antec Super LANBoy = $81
Power Supply - 100238 - Antec TruePower 2 430W = $98
Motherboards - 110479 - Asus P5LD2-VM 945G = $109
Processors - 120676 - Intel Celeron D 340J 2.93GHz = $113
Heat Sink Fans - 800083 - None = $0.00
Memory - 140121 - Corsair VS1GBKIT533D2 = $81
Hard Drives - 150322 - SATA Seagate 250GB = $109
CD-ROM/DVD-ROM/CD-RW - 160230 - NEC Dual Layer DVD+-RW = $45
Video Cards - 190341 - Sapphire Radeon X550 256MB = $69
Operating System - 210112 - Windows XP Home w/SP2 = $89
Warranty - 800012 - 1 Year Parts & Labor Plus = $25

Total = $878

I didn't include a keyboard or mouse or speakers or anything like that. And of course any fields I didn't list won't have a part code associated with them (ie no "570921" 6-digit code in the pull-down for that item). Monarch is a bit limited with certain key components, like the mobo, but I can forgive them that since they are the ones who build it for you. That mobo I picked out is actually the cheapest one for the Versall - go fig. Some other thoughts would be a floppy drive if you want one, or a wireless card, maybe change the hard drive or DVD burner selection, or if you want them to Hot Rush your order (8-13 business days is their standard) for an extra $100 (down to 5-7 business days).

The warranty options might be worth a look for you, too. I chose the 1-year "Plus" option for only $25. The 3-year is only $49, or you could go all the way up to the "24/7 Tech Support + Plus 3 Year Onsite Warranty" for only $99. These warranties are pretty cheap in the PC arena, although I don't know how quickly they respond to "onsite" inquiries. Nevertheless, 24/7 tech support and a 3-year warranty for $99 is pretty awesome!

The case I chose is a good one - I've worked with it before. It's smaller, made of aluminum (very lightweight), has plenty of room for your requirements, and has excellent cooling. I chose this one mainly for its size, portability, and relative low-maintainance. I hope you stick with this one despite the fact that it has a side window and a front blue LED fan. Hey, they make good nightlights! :D

The vid card in question is one of the ones on my list (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=39018) - the Radeon X550. On Monarch, the 256MB version was only a dollar more than the 128MB version, so I thought hey, why not? This vid card is cheap and good, which is not something you can always find in the world of computers. ;) It has one DVI, one VGA, and TV-Out functionality if you ever use it (I never do). Dual-400MHz RAMDACs, excellent 2D image quality from ATI, and their free driver software will let you tweak your two displays into many cool combinations (NVidia's driver software will also do this).

I put XP Home in the config since you will never need XP Pro. The price includes Service Pack 2 (the latest update from Billy-boy) and the OEM price from Monarch makes it much easier to swallow. They'll even install it for you!

That covers the basics for now. Let me know if you have any questions.

pokerguy
09-17-2005, 06:51 PM
Thanks for the advice saphaliine - couple of questions:


If I run 2 identical monitors from the new PC - one using a DVI and the other using VGA. will they not look slightly different on the screen? It is extremely important that the signals be the same on both.

Plus what do you think of this card - it is the cheapest option at Monarch with the dual DVI's? Good compromise?

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=190474

Also do you have any suggestions for good monitors 20" and above?

Thanks again

:)

saphalline
09-17-2005, 07:12 PM
I've never seen a difference between VGA and DVI - at least not to the human eye. Remember, the monitor draws the picture. VGA and DVI are just two different ways of sending the picture to the monitor. And truth be told, VGA is superior to DVI even with the analog conversion factored in. A 400MHz RAMDAC won't let you down. And if you buy high-end 20"+ flat panel displays, I doubt they'll let you down, either. DVI is fun to play with, but you don't need two of them. At least not yet. And certainly not for that price. Go ahead if you want, but I still say you don't need it.

Also do you have any suggestions for good monitors 20" and above?Me? I'm afraid not. I can't afford 'em! ;) Doesn't make much sense for me personally to look into those high-end monitors. I imagine the ones that have already been suggested are good. Apple's Cinema displays are very pretty, and I know that Samsung is a good name in LCD monitors. Beyond that, I have no specific recommendations.