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AMD
10-14-2005, 07:42 AM
Hi

ive posted a pole to see how many people will be buying either the Ps3 or XBox 360 as i cant decide on which one to buy when they are released.
Can you please vote on a console and tell me why you have voted on that particular console.
Many thanks :)

Quazzimodo
10-15-2005, 07:41 AM
OK i think the PS3 mainly because of what i have read so far
Product name: PlayStation 3

Logo: PLAYSTATION(R)3

CPU

Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS
GPU
RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
Sound
Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell- base processing)
Memory
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz 256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
System Bandwidth
Main RAM 25.6GB/s
VRAM 22.4GB/s
RSX 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB< 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)
System Floating Point Performance
2 TFLOPS
Storage
Detachable 2.5" HDD slot x 1
I/O
USB Front x 4, Rear x 2 (USB2.0)
Memory Stick standard/Duo, PRO x 1
SD standard/mini x 1
CompactFlash (Type I, II) x 1
Communication
Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T) x 3 (input x 1 + output x 2)
Wi-Fi IEEE 802.11 b/g
Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR)
Controller
Bluetooth (up to 7)
USB 2.0 (wired)
Wi-Fi (PSP)
Network (over IP)

AV Output
Screen size: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
HDMI: HDMI out x 2
Analog: AV MULTI OUT x 1
Digital audio: DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) x 1
Disc Media
CD PlayStation CD-ROM, PlayStation 2 CD-ROM, CD-DA, CD-DA (ROM), CD-R, CD-RW, SACD, SACD Hybrid (CD layer), SACD HD, DualDisc, DualDisc (audio side), DualDisc (DVD side)
DVD: PlayStation 2 DVD-ROM, PlayStation 3 DVD-ROM, DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW
Blu-ray Disc: PlayStation 3 BD-ROM, BD-Video, BD-ROM, BD-R, BD-RE

OK if you can read that, there is alot of interesting stuff, and i think it beats the XBOX 360 in graphics and raw processing power, 7!! processors!! and a Back up one. i feel people who buy the XBOX 360 may be kicking themselves when the PS3 shows up!

AMD
10-15-2005, 02:48 PM
Thankyou for your reply
But from the new game releases websites for the ps3 and Xbox 360 the graphics look much better on the xbox 360 than the ps3.

Also is true that the xbox 360 has a Hard drive? I bet the ps3 wont :cool:
Also does the Xbox 360 have an Embedded operating system? Like xp?

And do you know the real release date of the Xbox 360 and the Ps3 as i keep seeing diffrent dates on difrent sites.
Thankyou.

saphalline
10-15-2005, 06:55 PM
Looking at the specs for both the Xbox 360 (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/factsheet.htm) and the PS3 (http://www.ps3land.com/ps3specs.php), they're pretty evenly matched. Both have a PowerPC-based core CPU, with the Xbox 360 going for a more conventional tri-core arrangement, while the PS3 uses the new Cell architecture. In terms of the hardware, it's difficult to tell which one is "better". Afterall, raw computing power is one thing, but how well it gets used is quite another! The PowerPC architecture never fared too well in the dual-G5 Mac Cube vs P4 & A64 PC's. :rolleyes: And most of that failure was in terms of software, not the hardware. It will be up to the game programmers to show us which console is better.

And I think that's the main goal when shopping for a new console. The hardware is of little interest to most console owners - the real meat of the matter is the GAMES!! :D Which one will have better games? Or more like which one will have more of the games that you want to play? Keeping in mind that I'm basically of the opinion that the hardware is roughly equal, which one would you prefer?

According to the info that I've heard, the Xbox 360 will be an end product with a few upgradable parts (like the hard drive). The PS3, on the other hand, was supposed to be released in 3 different versions: a cheap one with no hard drive, a more expensive one with a hard drive, and an "ultra" version with a huge hard drive and multimedia capabilities for full HD theatre & DVR entertainment. I don't know if these plans for the PS3 have changed or not, but that's what I've heard.

I must admit, however, that I'm no console expert. I haven't owned or played on a console in years. I'm a PC gamer all the way now. But these lines between consoles and PC's are getting thinner all the time. Another few generations and we could very well have a merging. In the mean time, consoles are still better gaming machines for genres like Sports games and "platformers" and fighting games. It's all about how you want to have fun. And don't forget that FUN is the primary focus here! There's tons of info out there about the games that will be released with these new consoles, as well as teasers for next summer. Spend some time online looking at headlines and see which one you like.

*sigh* I remember the simple days before 3D and shaders, back when 2D ruled all! WarCraft & Super Nintendo... Those were the days... ;)

AMD
10-15-2005, 07:33 PM
Thankyou very much for replying.
I also do love pc gaming myself better than console gaming but the big letdown for pc gaming is WILL THE GAME WORK ON MY COMPUTER which i think all the time when im buying a pc game.
But with a console you know its going to work so you dont have to worry about if it meets the games specifications.

Personaly i can see me buying the Xbox 360 as ive always thought Xbox graphics was better.

Also can you tell me if the Xbox has a built in operating system like windows xp or something?
Thankyou for your time.

Wandrille
10-16-2005, 12:40 AM
well it really depends the xbox360 i think has better graphics
however the ps3 will have way more games to choose from

i an not a nerd
10-17-2005, 11:37 PM
The PS3 will have access to the whole PS and PS2 library. However, from this artical:http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26945 kinda makes me nervous... If it costs US $17.6 million just for a development kit..... I was thinking of making a version of a MMORPG that I am working on with my game studio (go highschool student made games!!!) for the PS3 because of the increadible hardware. But alas, we can't afford that!!! We can barely afford a Revolution development kit now.... Anyways, the nice thing about making things for the PC is that you don't need a development kit. (Good ol' Directx SDK...)

So ya, also the PS3 is rumoured to start at US $400+ and go up to US $1000+ !!!! AHHHHHH.

Btw, I also noticed that you didn't include the Nintendo Revolution in your poll.... I personally intend to get the Revolution and the 360 myself.

Whyzman
10-18-2005, 01:36 AM
Yeah, what about the Nintendo Revolution?

AMD
10-18-2005, 05:57 AM
Thanks for replying.
I didnt add the Nintendo to my poll as ive never liked them and the graphics have always looked like a cartoon.
I prefer the major consoles which have the larger reputation like the Playstation and XBox.

i an not a nerd
10-18-2005, 09:31 AM
Lol
I prefer the major consoles which have the larger reputation

And WHO MADE CONSoLE GAMING POPULAR???? Nintendo thats who! Anyways, the Gcube sucked cuz of the lack of 3rd party support. That was because Nintendo whent idiotic with the lack of multimedia capabilities (no dvd support) and the lack of online gaming.

The Gamecube is a very powerful console. In terms of hardware capabilities, it is on par with the Xbox and PS2.

Another reason that the Gcube failed is that because of all the pokemon games and mario-themed games the Gcube was viewed as a "kiddie console" by developers. I am sure that if more mature games were developed for the Gcube it would have done better. For example, Halo was one of (or is) the game(s) that made the xbox so popular. The xbox has become known as the "big guy" console from all the shooters.

Another failing of the Gcube is the look. It looks like a freakin' purse with that handle!!! Nintendo made a mistake by themeing their console to japanese tastes.... Xbox looks powerful and "cool". At least the Revolution looks alot nicer. Then again, the 360 looks like an Apple wanna-be lol.

In conclusion, Nintendo screwed up the Gcube. Their new console looks to be amazing with its new controller. Now all Nintendo needs to do is to get their ass in gear and get it out sooner (with HD support).

alexdhl
10-18-2005, 02:54 PM
I think the console who comes out first is gonna get a big step ahead of the other one. They're not that different?

i an not a nerd
10-18-2005, 10:28 PM
They're not that different?

Well, yes they are.

They all use different formats for storing games.

The Revolution has a completley different controller.

The capabilities are all different. example: the xbox 360 is gonna be able to hook up to a PC and stream media across a network. You can also plug in a variety of portable media players into the usb ports and access the music on them. The PS3 and the Revolution don't do that.

alexdhl
10-19-2005, 05:45 AM
Any answer to who's the most powerful?

i an not a nerd
10-19-2005, 01:43 PM
So far it looks like the PS3. But then again, Nintendo hasn't revealed any info about revolution's tech specs...although i doubt that they will be as high powered as the PS3.

saphalline
10-22-2005, 03:43 AM
Any answer to who's the most powerful?In terms of what? Overall gaming prowess or pure executional performance?

I think the Xbox 360 has an edge with its much simpler CPU, which means it will be a lot easier for developers to program for it. The PS3 has some major power behind it, but its Cell-based CPU is an experiment in and of itself. Of course game developers will be forced to program for it, but how easy will it be? This whole Cell architecture is entirely new, and the first mainstream product to use a Cell-based CPU is the PS3. There is no precedent for it - this will be interesting to watch. And don't forget that the Xbox 360's CPU is a complete tri-core PowerPC-based architecture, while the PS3 has a main PowerPC-based core delegating duties to 7 SPE's (the 8th is for redundancy) with does not mean 7 CPU cores, but rather 7 optimized pipelines with their own local resources.

The Xbox 360 has some major graphical performance behind it. The 10MB of embedded RAM with an insane 256GB/s of bandwidth is truly an impressive feat. It also has a unified 512MB main memory architecture, while the PS3 has 256MB for main RAM and 256MB for the frame buffer. The Xbox 360 also has a dedicated audio processor, while the PS3 relies on the main CPU to handle audio duties in addition to everything else.

You guys keep trying to simplify this comparison. Maybe you don't care about the numbers, but trust me on this analysis. I know my CPU architectures!

Quazzimodo
10-27-2005, 09:54 AM
the nintendo revoloution need's to get back into the more mature audience, but with it's new controller, it could slip back into its kiddie like genre of games. I would stick with the PS3 because of the fact that sony revoultionised gaming with the use of the CD, and DVD others have had to copy the PS2 (cough cough XBOX) but i feel that with sony's heritage they will produce something absolutley amazing.

i an not a nerd
10-27-2005, 05:14 PM
Yes, Nintendo needs to get back into the mature audiance.... But they are prolly going to ignore us.

Quazzimodo
10-31-2005, 01:52 PM
yah i can imagine a whole new host of mario games with that new controller that nintendo have got.

tickle mario anyone? lol

saphalline
11-01-2005, 09:40 PM
tickle mario anyone?Oh, that is just wrong! That's almost as bad as that new controller! :p

Seriously, though, Nintendo just might be out of the loop due to their controller alone! Who wants to be playing a heated match of Halo Revolution :rolleyes: with a cutsie green iPod-looking remote?? WTF?

Granted it might appeal to small minority (and I wouldn't be suprised if Nintendo releases a more conventional controller within 6 months of the Revolution) but the one they have now is just... BAD! If I were still a teenage console player, I'd throw-up if I got one of those for Xmas!

Quazzimodo
11-02-2005, 12:11 PM
LOL i can see the novelty of these new controllers wearing off pretty fast and everyone wanting a new one! What were they on when they designed this controller, i think it could be just another nail in the coffin of nintendo!

saphalline
11-03-2005, 04:28 AM
That's a good point - how is Nintendo doing financially lately? The Gamecube was a pretty good product, but if the Revolution ends up being a dud, how will they survive? I suppose it's possible to survive on kiddie games alone when you're the only one making them :p but most of the buying power for new console systems resides in the older crowd.

If I were a parent of little kids looking for a new Xmas gift, I think a nice price-reduced Gamecube will be a heck of a deal this season! Plenty of power, kiddie games with great graphics, relatively cheap games on average, plenty of stock on accessories, etc.

But for the teens and tweens out there who have jobs and are making their own money, the Revolution looks more like a g/f-friendly DVR box than a gaming console! :p In which case we're back to the subject of this thread - ignoring the Revolution!

i an not a nerd
11-03-2005, 06:51 PM
Saph, Nintendo has announced plans to release a conventional controller that the remote slides into.

Quazzimodo
11-04-2005, 12:09 PM
Any way back to xbox 360 vs PS3, i would go with the PS3 on this one, a huge reason is that the PS3 supports far more media formats than the XBOX 360, just take a look at the new Blu-ray format, that i've heard can hold something like 50GB!!! whereas from what i have read the XBOX 360 will use essentially quite old technology now DVD's, does this mean that they have to multilayer them or something because a DVD dosent hold nearly 50GB surely not!!

PS3 all the way lol!!

JakeTehSamurai
11-16-2005, 01:11 AM
I'm personally really psyched about the Nintendo Revolution. Perhaps the PC Guide Forums audience is more of a PC-clone console fan (not to bash on that, everyone's entitled to their opinion), but here's my opinion.

Sony and Microsoft, because of their non-gaming interests, are about controlling your living room. Nintendo is about gaming. Since the Color TV Game 6, Nintendo has been purely about gaming.

It seems to me that the XBox 360 and the PS3 aren't really that different than the PS2 and XBox, except for improved graphics and performance. The Nintendo Revolution is innovative. It's different. Not unlike the DS (Which is outselling the PSP worldwide, by the by), it's new.

About the kiddie thing: This is a generalization and not at all true. The Gamecube didn't not sell because it only had kiddie games. It didn't sell because there was no widespread online support, or multimedia capabilities.

And Nintendo, money troubles? Hah. Even at $99, Nintendo made money on every Gamecube they sold. Additionally, Nintendo holds a large market share in Japan (larger than both Sony and Microsoft).

The controller holds so much innovation. Check out this article on IGN (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651275p1.html) , this blog article about the Revolution at TGS (this one's really good) (http://www.lostgarden.com/2005/09/nintendos-genre-innovation-strategy.html), and this great article about the possibilities for the new controller in each of the genres. (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651224p1.html)

I really hope some of you turn around and take another look at the Revolution. You've blown it off, and I believe underestimated its innovation.

Quazzimodo
11-16-2005, 05:34 PM
Nice post, some good points raised, i suppose that they do hold quite a substantial slice of the market in japan! i myself am saving for a pc but, if i was to get one, i am now not entirely sure lol

saphalline
11-16-2005, 07:17 PM
Perhaps the PC Guide Forums audience is more of a PC-clone console fanYeah probably. Or in my case, I'm PC-only. I would never buy a console. Think of all the computer upgrades I could buy with that money! :p

One of the reasons I got tired of the consoles was because the controllers were different for each one. Learned to play that game on a Genesis, huh? Sorry pal, the SNES is different! :rolleyes: Or what about the Dreamcast controller, or the N64 controller? Very good for their respective systems, but I hate learning a new input device when I should be enjoying a game!

Maybe that's why I went to PC gaming and never went back. My mouse and keyboard can be used to play any of my computer games, and I like that! Not to mention the fact that I can play games that would be considered cross-platform in the console world. For instance, I can play everything from Zork to Quake4 on one single machine. Can you play Super Mario Bros and NFS: Underground on the same console? I don't think so! Cheating is also much easier in computer games. Type in a code, get the benefit. None of this "for the PS2, the code is square, triangle, triangle... for the XBox, the code is..." Of course, this goes back to the input device problem, but some cheats in console games require you to "unlock" them. Who the $#^% came up with that!? :mad: If I could unlock the cheat, I wouldn't need it! That sort of defeats the purpose of a cheat. At least in my opinion.

So yeah, I guess this thread is sort of a moot point for me. I'll never buy another console, so why worry? :D

Quazzimodo
11-17-2005, 03:18 PM
i do prefer using a mouse and keyboard, ESPECIALLY for FPS games like counter strike and BF2

i an not a nerd
02-02-2006, 06:29 PM
I thought I may as well post something here again.

About Nintendo screwing over the mature audiance thing, I've been looking at the Japonese definition of "mature" or "adult". They seem to think that "mature" or "adult" mean Zelda or Metriod Prime. They seem to think that something that a kid cannot beat easily is an adult game. It is all about the Asian society. Over there, stuff like Halo is nowhere near as popular as in North America. They adore the "cute" games such as Pokemon, or the fantasy sword-swinger games. But when you get something like BF2 it does nowhere near as well in Asian countries because of the lack of "cuteness". Say if Nintendo made a Mario game where Mario has to go massacre Bowser and his minions with a rail gun and he gets the girl (Peach maby?) at the end, then the Asians would proboly snap that up because it has Mario! Mario is a big icon in their culture, as well as in the North Americain culture.

paul_
02-06-2006, 04:14 PM
The PS3 has one HUGE advantage: it is using a new GPU developed by IBM called "Chip". This processor can create a mooving image of a plane flying over Mt. Rushmore at a movie-quality 30FPS at such insane detail levels that a current processor would take OVER 2 MINUTES TO RENDER A SINGLE FRAME! So, the limiting factors on the PS3 are the graphics quality of the games and the TV the user is playing it on.

-Paul

i an not a nerd
02-10-2006, 03:00 PM
The chip is called CELL. And the cpu is not what renders the scene, its the GPU.

paul_
02-11-2006, 07:53 PM
Right...cell. my bad. Where did I say CPU? I eant GPU, anywhoo.

-Paul

i an not a nerd
02-11-2006, 09:23 PM
Lol, sorry, my bad as well. I thought that u typed CPU but you did type GPU.

Anyways, its the CPU that is called CELL and was developed by Sony, Toshiba, and IBM. The GPU is called the RSX or "Reality Synthesizer" and its being co-developed by NVIDIA and Sony.


at such insane detail levels that a current processor would take OVER 2 MINUTES TO RENDER A SINGLE FRAME!

Well, the Cell is optimized for single-precision calculations; for double-precision, as used on personal computers, the performance drops by an order of magnitude to levels similar to desktops. (taken from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_%28microprocessor%29#Synergistic_Processing_E lements_.28SPE.29 this is a very good read btw)

Also, the CELL is only expected to be able to perform at 75ish% of its theoretical rate and the performance boost over more traditional CPUs is restricted to a very small 12% of actual game code. (more from wiki)

saphalline
02-11-2006, 10:52 PM
Cell is a major deviation from more traditional methods of CPU design. The basic concept behind a core-level massively parallel array of simple execution units is just bizarre. With the right software, Cell can work incredible magic - but then so can any other CPU architecture with optimized software. And because it's so different, there's no precedent for how to code for it. I know that the game developers are whining about it, but that's only because they're dreading this new multiple CPU trend. PC's have dual-core already, with multi-core coming soon; the XBox 360 has a triple-core CPU; and the PS3 has Cell. Now I'm not saying that it's easy to code for multiple CPU's, but they're here to stay so there's point in the game developers whining about it.

The aspect of Cell that really impresses me, though, is its scalability. There are some exciting new theories on CPU design for PC's once this multi-core thing takes off, but with Cell it's a lot easier. Need more performance? Just add more SPE's! That has been the plan all along - 8 SPE's is just the beginning. There are already designs in the works with 16 and 32 SPE's, so it would be quite easy for Sony to release an updated PS3 with more CPU power or even to strike back with a PS4 a lot sooner than M$ could develop a new XBox. At this point, Sony has set themselves up nicely with a new scalable CPU architecture so that once the developers do learn how to code for it, they can just keep their code for the next PlayStation. Or heck, at this point, how likely do you think it would be for Sony to release a PS4 with a more powerful Cell CPU that would be able to play PS3 games? It would be like the PS2 all over again, except this time it would be better. Imagine PS3 games actually getting a speed boost when played on a PS4! :cool: That would be awesome!!

i an not a nerd
02-12-2006, 12:28 AM
Heh, now that WOULD be a huge blow to M$! M$ spent a ton of $$$ on the xbox and xbox360 developing and marketing it. Now the 44billion+ that sony, tosh and IBM spent on the CELL is worth it!

Heck they could prolly skip the GPU on the PS4 and use soly massive amounts of SPEs!

About game devs. whining, its more time to do, and they are on scheduals! (thats my guess) Fortuantly, i'm looking into becoming a high detail modeler for games, so i won't have to worry about coding (thank god).

saphalline
02-12-2006, 02:31 AM
i'm looking into becoming a high detail modeler for games, so i won't have to worry about coding.Oh I wouldn't say that. ;) The more you are able to do, the more attractive you look as a team member. Even if you skip the coding, always try to learn more stuff.

Like making coffee! :p Increasing your coffee skill always helps out on the job...

i an not a nerd
02-12-2006, 07:34 PM
Hehe, I plan to learn coding! Its just that I won't be in charge/responsible of/for the coding! (Personally, I hate programming under pressure, that is why I like modeling. It is an art, so they don't pressure you as much :) )

Prosthetic_mind
02-28-2006, 06:57 PM
Might as well throw in my 2 cents, I used to be a big PS2 person, but I ended up dropping it a year or two ago when everything went mainstream. I think I'm looking at the Revolution because of the interesting possibilities it has. I have a friend who has a GC, and there are some real gems on it (who could forget Eternal Darknes: Sanity's Requiem, a lovecraftian based horror game) but either way, when I stopped playing, it was the time when developers decided they could and would make more money by simply adding female characters with large breasts and saving the money they would have normally spent on plot and gameplay. It may have changed now, but most of my favorite companies for it are down the tube. Either way the Xbox has always been a joke. What can you say when your only remarkable game for the entire system is Halo? The sad thing is that I've lanned the PC port of it, and not only are the graphics remarkably better, but the game itself is nothing compared to the PC level FPSes. Microsoft's entire platform is overhyping trash, as you can see by about every product they have. I have a top of the line machine, and chances are as it is it can stand up to the new systems (look at the graphics on Oblivion comparing the Xbox 360 and the Pc). Only thing I see happening is my favorite console game companies giving up on the old style and levels of quality to degrade to the mainstream level, and Nintendo in general has tried to keep their hardcore gamers.

madad2005
03-01-2006, 10:03 AM
Best of luck with the solid rendering career - just remember there is A LOT of competition out there. Luckily, Maya have a free learning edition of their software online, which I've actually found to be nice. Too many bloody options though ;-p.

I am waiting for the Revolution myself. I was a huge console gamer as a kid and went from the NES, to SNES, to Gameboy, before I starting getting into PC's. I just recently sold my SNES on ebay to get some funds together for a PC upgrade (addiction). The revolution controller looks mighty impressive!!

bassman
03-01-2006, 10:56 AM
Increasing your coffee skill always helps out on the job...
:D Learn how to make really good coffee and I will put you to work in construction while you go to school ;)

Saph, sorry to grab attention from another thread but can you help with THIS (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=44852)?
I don't get much chance to stop by here and can never seem to catch you.
Thanks ;)