Computer Freezing - Heat problems?

[ShAdOWmoNkX]

Hi guys,

My computer had been tossing its CPU thermal overheat alarm lately.

The CPU temperature from a cold startup might be 56 degree Celsius (hereinafter 'C'), but would then quickly climb to, say, 76 C in a matter of minutes. Heh, Intel warns that the threshold before thermal damage of Pentium III's is 75 C.

Figuring there was little I could do other than minimizing my computer use considering the indoor temperature (We don't have air conditioning, and lately it has been around 86 degrees fahrenheit (hereinafter 'F') around here -- 94 F if you count the relative humidity.), I allow/ed it to run.

Only when my computer finally started acting slower did I realize I should dust it. So I did. Carefully, with an ordinary vaccum hose and a very slightly damp paper towel (soaked in dish soap water). I didn't have compressed air laying around.

Now, even after doing so, my computer STILL acts slower -- EVEN slower, in fact. And now it goes so far as to lock up sporadically and utterly (it's as if the screen took a picture of itself and you're stuck with it; CTRL ALT DEL doesn't do diddly or squat, FTM) ... and I may be wrong, but it seems as though it does so more often when I'm "stressing" it with, say, many open browser windows.

It's quite annoying, as you can imagine.

Interestingly, when it locks up is completely random -- it has dones so during installs and formats -- it may even do so now -- so that eliminates the possibility of a software issue.

IMPORTANT: It locked up when Windows booted earlier, and the Windows Startup sound was just droning on the speakers. Like it was stuck on a single note. I'm not sure if that makes it more likely to be the power supply, RAM, or processor, but I'm sure someone knows.

Which leads me to say thus: it may be the processor, RAM, or power supply.

Any way to know for sure? Any tips, hints, tricks or information that I and others may find helpful? Time to stand and shine, Uber Geeks! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif (Hey, I'm one too, but this is outside my area of expertise... hehe)

Many thanks in advance,

-ShAdOWmoNkX

[This message has been edited by ShAdOWmoNkX (edited 06-28-2002).]

[John0904]

Do you know if this happens more when the room temperature starts to rise?
Even a few degrees makes a difference.

If I were to guess, it might be temperature related. Particularly around this time of the season.

I know for a fact that Intel's are suppose to run cooler than Athlon's.
I am running a 1.4 Thunderbird. The temp is usually between 45ºC and 60ºC.

I would think that you should be running below 60ºC at least.

Have you tried opening the case and running like that for a while?
The first thing I would do it lower that temperature to at least 60ºC if possible.

[ski]

I agree with John0904. It appears to be temperature related, especially if the CPU temp is reaching 76 C.
The first thing to check is the CPU cooling fan. Make sure it's running and it's at the proper speed.
If that's ok, then you may want to remove the CPU's heatsink and check the thermal compound between the heat sink and the CPU die. Sometimes it will ooze out and cause the CPU to overheat. The existing compound can be removed with brake cleaner, mineral spirits, or Goof Off, followed by high purity rubbing alcohol, and then replaced with Arctic Silver 3.

[ShAdOWmoNkX]

Cool, thanks guys. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

John: No, I don't notice it more ... which is the odd thing. It makes me wonder if it's permanent damage -- which I think it is.

*So, what would you suggest for making a PIII 600 MHz (soon to be a lot faster) icy-cold?

*How about cooling an ultra-fast and ultra-hot SCSI-3 LVD drive?

*Might this all have something to do with Windows 98 showing "Intel 4MBit firmware hub" as being something NOT installed (you know, the question mark next to a 'device' in Device Manager...)?

That's peculiar as it is... Windows 98 seems to know what is SUPPOSED to be there, but didn't install the drivers for it. So I think it's possible it's damage to the Intel 4MBit firmware hub.

Whatever THAT is. I'm guessing it has to do with the on-board memory controller... (which is so sensitive I can't even use my RAM in its ECC mode).

I'm pretty sure I didn't have these problems before with Windows 98. Which, btw, is only installed so I can get one of my favorite games working with XP; install, backup, burn, install on XP, play!

*IMPORTANT: Installing a game didn't cause a lockup, but after it was installed, EACH time I've tried to actually play the game, it locked up. Noteworthy is that the game loads a video from CD-ROM upon startup, but installing it also uses the CD-ROM drive, obviously. Perhaps this will give more credence to one thing being a problem over another...

*Seeing as it MAY be heat damage but MAY be something else entirely, what diagnostic tool/s would you guys suggest to find out for sure? Something cheap (better: free) but effective. I hear even Linux has built-in stuff to test memory, etc.

Thanks again, and hopefully this will be helpful to other people, too! 8-)

-ShAdOWmoNkX

[This message has been edited by ShAdOWmoNkX (edited 06-29-2002).]

[mjc]

Ok, first thing, what motherboard are you running?

Second, boot into safe mode and go to device manager and remove the firmware hub, all copies of it you find. Also you may want to find the latest chipset drivers for your board, no they are not as critical for an Intel based board as they are for a VIA board but they may be a little better than the default versions that Windows installs, at least on my i810 based board I have found that to be true.

third, check to make sure that the CPU fan is actually running...

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mjc
Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.


Please Post Questions in the forums, not my email. Thanks

[ShAdOWmoNkX]

Oh http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif .... here are the specs:

Supermicro 760-A Chassis - 5 internal fans running, not including 2 in power supply, 1 emergency fan(http://www.supermicro.com/PRODUCT/Chassis/SC760.htm)

Supermicro PWS-0024 Power Supply (http://www.supermicro.com/PRODUCT/Accessories/pws-024.htm)

Supermicro PIIIDM3 Mainboard - Onboard Intel Ethernet Chip, MRH, etc.(http://www.supermicro.com/PRODUCT/MotherBoards/840/PIIIDM3.htm)

Intel Pentium III-B (Coppermine) 600 MHz/100 MHz FSB

Seagate ST336704LWV 10,003 RPM Ultra160 SCSI-3 (36.7 GB) Hard Disk Drive

Western Digital Corporation Expert Series 7,500 RPM (10.2 GB) IDE Hard Disk Drive

Iomega ZIP 100 Internal IDE ARMD

HP CD-Writer Plus 9110i Internal IDE CD-RW Drive

Creative PC-DVD Encore 6x Internal IDE DVD Drive with Dxr3 Hardware Decoder Card

Floppy Disk Drive

Voodoo3 3000 AGP Graphics Card

Creative Labs SoundBlaster Live! Platinum PCI Sound Card with Live!Drive

3COM V.90 Internal Analog DataFax PCI Modem

...and of course CRT Monitor, Scanner, Printer, Joystick, External Speakers, Cable Modem and some miscellaneous PCI cards laying around (not installed)

Hope that's helpful!

Thanks again,

-ShAdOWmoNkX http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by ShAdOWmoNkX (edited 06-29-2002).]

[mjc]

Good grief, that thing should have enough air movement that you would need to worry about wind chill if you stood too close to it.... http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

A 5°C difference in ambient temp will make a difference in the temps inside your case, but it shouldn't be a 20°C difference.

Double check to make sure the fans are all working properly....the one by the drive bays should probably pulling air into the case. I think all of them except one on the rear of the case should be pulling air in. (maybe if there is one on top that should be exhaust also). Make sure that you cables are all routed so that there is a clear path to the CPU cooler. Also, make sure that your thermal compound has not oozed out, you may want to look into something like ArcticSilver (http://www.arcticsilver.com/)

------------------
mjc
Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.


Please Post Questions in the forums, not my email. Thanks

[ShAdOWmoNkX]

HA HA http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ... I only WISH that were true! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif It gets pretty warm depending on the external temperature. If I had AC I wouldn't even have to worry about this stuff; it'd be somewhat cold to the touch.

*Whoa, cool... but is the stuff that comes by default on a new retail Piii "good enough?"

*Also, I'm curious, what would you suggest as far as the fans go? They're those common Sunon fans, but I'm sure there's better out there. Just what I need -- more noise contamination. :P

*I'd also have to worry about cooling the SCSI drive, and when I upgrade to either an Athlon (or something newer) or a P4; a really nice fan and/or water-cooling system. Tips for that, too, would be helpful.

I want my computer to be a refrigerator. Cheaper that way! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif I kid, I kid ... but seriously, I'd like it really damn cold! Makes good computing sense. But I'm sure not environmental sense. Blah.

*Based on all you now know, what do you think my computer prob is? I'm starting to think it being heat affecting the computer as I use it is a bit extreme. It might be heat DAMAGE (from when it was hotter and I used it), but I dunno. Really, I can remember Windows 98 working perfectly. But I also don't remember seeing it fail to install Intel 4MBit hub drivers. So maybe THAT has something to do with it.

Note: I don't have any fans on the side, and my drives are installed on one of the provided add-in drive bays right next to eachother -- SCSI on top (My drives would be right below the two plastic fan holders on ther right in this picture: http://www.supermicro.com/images/Imag_Prod/CASE/Others/sc760A-sm.jpg). I should move them to the top of the case, but the problem always becomes the limitations of IDE cables. They're too short. Only 18" allowed, at most, for each one!

*Drivers: Let's say someone just installed Windows XP Pro on their box. What kind of drivers with respect to a motherboard does a person need for ultimate performance? The manufacturer usually isn't enough.

For example: Do I need chipset drivers (southbridge, northbridge, whatever else...)? What about onboard LAN? Onboard audio/gaming stuff? Onboard SCSI host adapters? Etc. Windows usually manages to make everything work, but I don't mind the elbow grease of making sure everything is "the latest," direct from each vendor. A pain, to be sure, but almost necessary.

Cheers!

-ShAdOWmoNkX http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by ShAdOWmoNkX (edited 06-29-2002).]

[setoguro]

Besides what has been said already. Check the fan on the heatsink and make sure that it is blowing air on the heatsink and not sucking air through it and make sure that the heatsink fins arn't packed with dust. I run a delta fan on a Thermalright SK6 sounds like a jet but works great. There is a new Thermalright SLK 800 looks real good. http://www.systemcooling.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=71

[mjc]

Actually I have seen a couple of places that show you how to adapt a mini-fridge to serve as a computer case......

Put the SCSI up top.....that way it won't be trying to cook everthing else.

Panaflo (Panasonic) makes some pretty good fans that are fairly quiet.

XP has better drivers than 98 does,so it doesn't need them as often as 98 does. I would try redoing the current driver set and/or getting the Intel drivers for it....

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mjc
Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.


Please Post Questions in the forums, not my email. Thanks

[ShAdOWmoNkX]

Hey,

Thanks, guys!

It seems as though the problem is solved -- or did it just get more complicated? Find out here today!!

http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=82327#post82327

Of course, I was even nice enough to ask s'more questions ... pfft!

-ShAdOWmoNkX