Cooling

[gunslinger2787]

I recently had to return a 9800 Pro to ATI because of a repeated error called VPU Recover, and the fact that it made my computer constantly randomly restart. I had narrowed down the source of the Error to pretty much heat related. But at the time I sent it in, I thought my video card was over heating because maybe the fan was malfuntioning. So, long story short, I returned my video card in for a replacement/repair.
3 Days ago I received my replacement Radeon 9800 pro. Pop it in, and it runs smoothly, no VPU Recover error or random computer restarts.
Today I decided to finally download the multiplayer demo for F.E.A.R. In the middle of me setting up my controls I get the dreaded VPU Recover Error. Right away I pop open my case and touch my video card, and once again it seemed to be a little more hot than usual.
So I tried something I recently read on these forums: Open the case, leave it open, and put a small fan in front of the computer while it runs. So I got my space heater, put it on fan mode, and let it sit there while I played F.E.A.R. No VPU Recover!. Now I cant be certain that the fan is the solution to the problem, escpecially considering I have only had the error occur once since my new replacement video card.
But I will tell you this, Im 90% sure my video card problems are heat related and am willing to make the neccessary purchases to keep my computer cool, and running smoothly. I have a Gateway tower case, and personally think that it was designed horribly for ventilation. It always feels hot in there, and I worry that my two power supply fans, cpu fan, and video card fan arent doing the trick. Ive seen in many newer cases that there are fans that arent attached to anything, but that just help vent out alot of the hot air. I think that if I just improve the cooling in my case in general, that it can help keep the video card cool also.
So this leads me to my questions.
1) What methods of cooling my video card/PC would you recommend for me, that dont involve tampering with my video card, hence voiding the warranty.
2) Is it alright to leave my computer case open, with a fan blowing into it, for long periods of time? Or at least until I can make the proper cooling purchases?

[ski]

It's ok to run an external fan with the computer's cover removed for an extended period if it prevents the video card from overheating and destroying itself, let alone causing crashes.

Noramlly proper case cooling requires a minimum of one fan blowing in at the bottom front of the case, and a 2nd fan blowing out at the upper rear or top. You may have to do some drilling and cutting to install them at those locations.
WRT fan sizing, large high airflow fans are quieter than small high airflow ones. And you may have to connect them directly to the power supply's 12V molex connectors with adapters if the fans' amp ratings exceed the amp ratings of the MB's fan terminals.

[saphalline]

Oh wow! Yeah, you can't run a modern gaming system with no case fans. You will have major overheating problems, as you've already figured out.

Leave the case open with the space heater's fan blowing in for now. That will let you play on your computer while exploring your cooling options.

I guess the first question is what fan spots does your Gateway case have? "Fan spots" are anywhere that you can mount a fan, quite noticeable by the grille with four screw holes at the corners. Or sometimes they're just a plastic bracket, shaped like a box with square or circular holes for the air to move (the fan goes inside the bracket/box). Look for anything that looks like a fan spot.

If your Gateway case is old enough, it might not have any fan spots, in which case you'll have to make your own. A drill, dremel, or "case nibbler" are the tools of choice for modding your own fan spots. Ideally what you'd want to do is use a drill for the four screw holes, and a dremel or "case nibbler" for cutting out a circular hole (the size of the case fan you're adding). Then mount the fan with a fan grille on the outside (to keep fingers and other objects away from the fan blades). That's a basic run-down of modding your own fan spot.

Depending on the internal structure of your case, you should have a front intake and a rear exhaust, like ski said. Or you could have a front intake as well as a side intake (right over your vid card) and a rear exhaust. Depending on your hardware, you could possibly get by with just a side intake over the vid card and a rear exhaust. But usually with a gaming system, the more fans the better, as long as you plan the airflow.

In addition to gaining stability, a better cooling scheme should also improve your PSU's condition. It will be cooler inside, which will increase its lifespan and efficiency. Your CPU will also thank you, as well as just about every other internal component. Cooling is good, so now you know to keep an eye on your temps. Common acceptable temps are: 30-35C internal (usually comes from a mobo sensor), 35-45C CPU idle, and CPU full load not to exceed 60-65C (most CPU's can go higher but stability becomes a problem at these temps).

[gunslinger2787]

Wow you really know how to hit the nail on the head. TY Ski and Saphalline for your IN DEPTH answers. This forums always good for that. So heres my situation:
My gateway tower case is rather small, smaller than a normal atx I believe. I do have one fan spot located in the back, right underneath the PSU. But will that one fan be enough to cool the system? I really dont have any other places I could put an additional fan, even if I wanted to mod my case. The left panel that comes off, is so heavy duty that I would have to do some serious drilling, I personally dont see that as much of an option. So pretty much what it comes down to is: Will that one fan be enough to keep my system cool?
In case your wondering what exactly my case looks like, and how the ventilation is, I scanned some pics out of the PC's user guide. Just ignore the reference lines in the pics.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/gunslinger2787/case1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/gunslinger2787/case2.jpg
I dont know if those help, but it gives you an idea of what little ventilation I have on the case.
Also, Ive been using Everest to see what temperature changes I get when I have the case closed, and when I have it open with the fan blowing in. The difference is quite good.
With case closed:
Mobo: 51c
CPU: 60c
AUX: 54c
Hard Drive: 54c

Case open with fan:
Mobo: 34c
CPU: 51c
AUX: 40c
Hard Drive: 37c

This leads to my other two questions:
Is my cpu temp. still a little high even with the fan blowing in? And, what does AUX stand for?, it shows a picture of a monitor, so Im hopeing it has something to with the video card, considering thats the temp. I want to know the most.
Thanx for your time and I hope to hear from you soon.

[ski]

You're welcome.

You can install just a rear fan blowing out, and monitor the temperatures. If the CPU gets to 60 C or above, and/or the Mobo is 40 C or over, then you may have to install a front fan. It appears that it can be installed in the lower front panel if nothing is directly behind the panel. A drill and a circular hole saw will do the trick for the vent hole, and you can install a wire grill that's available from online computer fan suppliers to keep out prying fingers and small animals.

51 C for the CPU is acceptable.
However, if it increases to 60C or higher when playing games with the cover removed and an external fan running, then it's time to investigate a more efficient CPU heatsink, and a more powerful CPU fan. And also recommend replacing the existing thermal compound between the CPU and its heatsink with Arctic Silver.

My guess on the AUX temp would also be for the area around the video card considering it shows a picture of a monitor.

[saphalline]

Will that one fan be enough to keep my system cool?No, not with those high temps. It will probably be enough to reduce the number of errors, but not make them go away. Like I said before, 2 fans minimum, 3 would be preferable.

Is my cpu temp. still a little high even with the fan blowing in?If that's the CPU temp at idle, then yes. Anything over 50C idle is a bit hot, because that means your full load CPU temp (like when playing games) can reach 60C or more, which means more stability problems. Granted your vid card seems to be overheating before your CPU, but still.

what does AUX stand for?Who knows. You'll have to check the documentation for your Gateway. Every mobo has a different sensor for "AUX" and some don't have one at all. It could be the vid card, or it could be another PCB surface temp, or it could be a drive temp via a lead, or it could be the chipset temp. You'll have to look it up.

[gunslinger2787]

Alright, thanx alot guys.

[saphalline]

Ok, I think I may have found a way without drilling any holes or anything. This idea revolves around the concept that a positive internal case pressure is better than a negative one. Let's see how it works...

First get a high quality 80mm case fan (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=371006) for the rear of that Gateway case. Install it so that it blows into the case. Then get a "thermal hood" (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=372543) to route the incoming air over the CPU. For your vid card, get one of these (http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=75060) (try Circuit City, CompUSA, Fry's, etc). The Antec VCool is specifically designed to pull cool air in and blow it over your vid card. It's a bit noisy at the max setting, but should supply your vid card will enough cool air to keep it happy.

For exhaust duties, your PSU's fan should keep the hot air pumping out. Without any more vents, there's no way to "save" your PSU from the heat (like a normal non-Gateway case would provide), but at least the rest of your system should be stable. And anyways, your PSU has been holding up this long, so I think it can keep going until you can afford a new system.

This is just an idea for a cooling scheme, but I think it will work...

[gunslinger2787]

Im not exactly sure what you mean. Whats the purpose of the thermal hood? Do you mean put one end over the intake 80mm fan, and the other end over the CPU? And as far as video card cooling goes. I was thinking about getting a PCI Slot Fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835888112), that way it cools my video card and adds a little more air flow in the case. Have you herd anything about PCI Slot Fans, and do you think that would work?

[saphalline]

Yes, the thermal hood should go from the 80mm intake fan to the CPU HSF unit. That way the CPU gets cool incoming air to keep it happy.

The Antec VCool product I recommended is a PCI slot cooler. It's just a different one, and a better one. Instead of just moving air around inside the case, the VCool pulls cool air into the case and blows it straight up to your vid card. The VCool will keep your vid card much cooler than that Spectrum Fan Card.

[gunslinger2787]

Oops. :eek: Well yeah that looks like a resonable idea. Only problem is the vcool takes up two slots, but I think I have enough room. Ill purchase the fans first, then see if those can do the trick on there own. If certain parts like the cpu continue to get hot, Ill look into the thermal hood. Thanx alot, and if you have any new ideas just throw em at me.