Help me spend $$$ on new PC!!!

[Son of Zeus]

Uncle Charles & Fellow PC Guide Enthusiasts,

Well Uncle, thanks to “The PC Guide”, its Forum posters & your advice my i486DX4-S/100MHz machine is fast approaching her updated state of "perfection" ie. the point where there is nothing more that can realistically be upgraded in her. I don't want to touch her CPU, motherboard or chipset, as to me she would then no longer be a DX4/100. My objective was to take an older machine & upgrade it to a point that to change it any more would mean it would no longer be a 486: a self-defeating move. Besides from my online research I feel that any more changes would only provide incremental overall system performance improvement at an escalating cost. The point of diminishing returns for $$$ outlaid has been reached.

So after RAM, Hard Drive, OS, application program & driver upgrades I have, at last, pretty well optimised her. The final upgrades should be in place & ready by Christmas. Ready to pass her on to my young daughter, as her first PC, for Chrissie 2000. I know she won't let me forget that I have promised it to her! She grabs the monitor (she knows not to move the tower itself) & proudly proclaims to visitors "This is Hannah & mummies computer” & then, shaking her head whilst looking directly at me, says in a very seriously tone “it’s not daddies" :-) "Soon" I reply "very soon" with a grin. Actually I would rather wait, for a number of reasons (both technical & financial=that damned low Aussie $) till March/April next year before upgrading but those baby blues win me over. Oh dear, what tangled webs we weave when we wheal & deal with our daughters.

The point of all this is that I now need to plan MY NEW PC as it’s replacement. Any feedback in terms of comments, suggestions etc would be muchly appreciated. But please no flaming-I have gathered from my short time on the Net that PC specs can be a very emotive topic. But I would rather shed light than generate heat here.

This PC is intended to be used as a business machine, a workhorse, as I will be working from home & hopefully next year starting studies towards a Bachelor of Computer Science Degree. So stability, reliability & value for money are more important than pure speed & super duper performance levels. I have no intention to overclock it. If overclocking is your scene then I say good luck to you & wish you well, but it’s not where I’m coming from at this stage.

It is not intended for heavy gaming, video editing, desktop publishing or any of those intensive processes that would require a very powerful machine. I need something that will run current Operating Systems (I intend to quad boot four OS for the purposes of learning the major ones). The emphasis is on a modern mid-range machine that has room to run a few games. I want to wait for DVD-RAM to become available mainstream before upgrading the CD-RW to DVD-RAM.

My extremely tentatively planned system so far is:

CPU:
AMD Duron 700MHz with AMD standard issue heatsink & fan.
Won’t need a 1GHz plus CPU as in terms of price/performance I think they don’t yet cut it for the mainstream market. However the mobo etc should allow me to move up to a 1.2GHz AMD Athlon “Thunderbird” sometime in 2001 without having to replace anything else ie. just pull out the Duron 700MHz & plonk in a Thunder 1.2GHz. A fairly natural & convenient upgrade path. I hope. :-)

CHIPSET:
VIA.
Don't know the actual details as, to my knowledge, it has not yet been released. But it needs to support the upcoming new DDR SDRAM memory.

MOTHERBOARD:
ASUS.
My current PC’s mainboard is an ASUS & from what I have read & heard on the Web they make good, reliable, stable (but perhaps a little bit expensive) mobos. Don't know the actual details as, to my knowledge, it has not yet been released. But it needs to have native support for the coming DDR SDRAM, ATA/100 & RAID.

SYSTEM MEMORY:
256MB PC1600 DDR SDRAM (name brand only, not generic)
This should also allow an easy upgrade path to PC2100 DDR SDRAM next year should I desire.

HARD DRIVES:
Two x current Seagate 20GB 7200RPM ATA/100 HDs in RAID 0 array.
This was my initial feeling, but now considering one Seagate SCSI drive instead. One SCSI shouldn’t be that much more expensive than two ATAs. Could it? I’m too frightened to check their web site lest my weak heart & wimpish wallet suffer a heart attack. I’m too young to die! I would appreciate feedback here re ATA RAID V’s SCSI.

CD-RW:
Looking for feedback here as I don’t know that much about them.

MONITOR:
A current model ViewSonic 17" (16” minimum viewable).
My current PC’s monitor is a ViewSonic 6E 14” (13.2” viewable) & I am very happy with it. Also, from what I have read & heard on the Net, they make very good quality & reliable (but perhaps like ASUS products, a little bit on the expensive side) monitors that maintain their resale value due to their good reputation.

VIDEO CARD:
Don't know actual details but it would have to support the monitor at a minimum of 75MHz refresh rate at whatever is the currently accepted standard DPIs etc, etc. Some feedback would be appreciated here as well.

SOUND CARD:
Sound card not required as will be using USB based speakers.

PC SPEAKERS:
USB based speakers.
I would like to include USB based sound in this system, in order to avoid those horrible IRQ/IO/DMA conflicts that have plagued my current legacy Diamond Multimedia Kit 5000. This also saves on having a Sound Card. I know that it takes a bit of CPU power to run but I generally only use business productivity applications anyway. I only really want sound to play CDs or play games & am compensating by putting the money that I save on a Sound Card towards a faster CPU ie. moving from 500MHz to 700MHz.
Any feedback or possible dangers to watch out for?

PRINTER:
Assume that it would be a colour Ink-Jet of some sort but am looking for feedback here as I don’t know that much about modern ones. I presently run a very ancient Epson LX400 dot matrix printer. :-)

MODEM:
Maestro (Australian brand-they know local ISPs & Telstra/OPTUS etc best), V.92 (yes, the new V.92 standard, not V.90) 56K Voice/Fax/Data. EXTERNAL only. Nothing internal & NO WINMODEMS.

CASE:
Tower style with AMD approved power supply & appropriate airflow/minute fan. Needs to be very big to allow for all the heat that AMD CPUs & 7200RPM HDs produce. Don’t want active cooling, only standard air-cooling. Very large case should give better airflow & therefore a better cooling solution. The extra room should also make working under the hood easier.

UNINTERUPTIBLE POWER SUPPLY:
Uncertain about the need for this one. At least, with an external modem, the modem should fry first without taking out my PC internals. Yes/no? Any thoughts?

SOFTWARE:
 Pre-installed OEM software as follows:
1. MS Windows 2000 Professional Edition.
2. MS Windows Millennium Edition.
3. Linux Redhat v.???
4. Be OS v.???

 Retail software I will be transferring from my current PC:
1. MS Office 97 (SR2B) Professional Edition.
2. Norton 2000 Anti-Virus.
3. PowerQuest PatitionMagic v.5.01 (Build 195).
4. Sharp PC Connectivity & Backup software for Sharp ZQ-700 Electronic
Organiser.

Chow for Now.......Son of Zeus.

[bassvax]

Well SOZ, sounds like your on your way. I've often sat and wondered (dreamed) about what I would build for a system. The one area I think I can give some advice on is the monitor purchase (too much research). I understand there may be a lag of some sort betwixt your beloved Queensland and the US...with that said...I studied hard on the differences between shadow masking and aperture grille technology. While the colors on a Viewsonic (or any other brand) aperture grille monitor are much more brilliant I have a problem with the damper wires that can be seen on lighter colors. This may not be a problem for you and more than likely if it is not pointed out to you you may not even notice them. A good monitor for the money (IMO) is the Samsung Syncmaster series I have a 753 DF (17"{16" viewable} Dyna flat) using the shadow masking technology with .26dpi I am happy with it and so are my kids. Having been stationed in Korea with the Army for over three years I thought it likely I would not even consider purchasing a Korean Product (electrical or automotive), but I am impressed. On the flip side there is a commonly marketed Monitor by KDS (Korean Data Systems) that is inexpensive and pushed by several of the local pc shops. I am not impressed at all with this monitor and I have heard several horror stories regarding support and hardware performance. So like we Americans used to refer to the Timex (another asian product) as being a product that you were assured to "get what you paid it". I say so of the Samsung Syncmaster series. If you're interested check out www.samsungmonitor.com (http://www.samsungmonitor.com) Now on to the printer...for all the HP equipment I've dealt with from Gas Chromatography and Mass Spectrometry systems using Pascal language to the calculator (HP 20S)...I gained respect for HP which has extended over into the printer arena (I will leave out the pc's for the moment...suffice to say I feel ripped off as far as their jaunt inot the pc market is). At present a HP 840(2MB RAM) sereies deskjet will run $150 here in the US and is a reliable printer (down side of these inkjets is the cartidges are expensive even B&W) I chose the 930 series for a little boost of ram (4MB RAM internal). This offers the option to print great photo quality when needed. It was cinch to install as well. Another printer I've seen and heard good things about is the Cannon series. I've not used or installed one though so I can't make any knowledgeable suggestions there. I'm not a fan of Epson or Lexmark (driver issues). I just installed a Voodoo 4 4500 PCI video card (32MB-350MHz RAMDAC)and I am pleased with it so far. I hear some of the ATI's(newer ones) are good and also Matrox. Well just some opinions to kick around...good luck-Jerry

[zogg]

Hi zeus's son,

Sounds like you did your homework. Thats a very nice system with a good upgrade path.
I never heard of pc1600 or pc2100 though, whats that?
If I may make a suggestion. The monitor is the most important part of a system in my opinion because you have to look at all the time and eye fatigue can be a problem. I would cut down on the ram and the hard rives and just start with one 128 meg stick and one hard and then apply that money to a real nice monitior like a 20-21 inch with a trinitron tube and falt screen and all that jazzzzzzzz.Youi can always get more ram and another hard drive for raid.
I would go for a geforce2 or a radion video card also.
since you are not looking to over clock or build a top gun gaming machine and you want to do mostly business apps. Youi can save a lot of moiney on the mother board and cpu by getting an AMD K6-3+ mobile chip that will fit right in a socket 7 board that is available cheap. Fic makes one with 2 megs of onboard cache. That would make one hell of business system. The chips are available cheap. I just ordered a k6-3+ to upgrade my ss7 box from a k6-2 350 to a 450 MHz k6-3+ for 54 dollars. Now that will have full speed L2 cache 256 K worth and 512K L3 cache.
Buit if you are looking for an upgrade path then stick with the duron/ asus or abit route.


My 2cents



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http://iamradical.homestead.com/files/lost_moola.htm

[zogg]

On printers, It all depends on how much printing you plan on doing. If its just an occasional printout once in a while then something like a canon or if you are a heavy printer HP is a good choice.

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[ixl]

Herc,
Sounds like a pretty damned good analysis you have started out with there. A bit tired and your post was long, but a few quick comments:
[list=1]
Plextor is generally considered the best name for CD-RWs, though there are other good ones too. Do NOT get an el-cheapo CD-RW or you will regret it.
Asus is a good mobo manufacturer, one of the best.
Given that you are trying to keep this within a budget, I'd can the RAID 0. I honestly see absolutely no point in it for what you are doing, though I realize you and I don't agree on RAID.
Be sure you check out the monitor in person, they are very "personal items".
A UPS is a great idea, esp if your power is at all flaky...
[/list=a]
That's all for now. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Charles M. Kozierok
Webslave, The PC Guide (http://www.PCGuide.com)
Comprehensive PC Reference, Troubleshooting, Optimization and Buyer's Guides...
Note: Please reply to my forum postings here on the forums. Thanks.

[Paleo Pete]

Not much I can add here, looks like a recipe for a pretty good system. ABout all I can do is offer some input from the "I've been satisfied with it" viewpoint.

Video: I've had good results with both ATI's Rage and Matrox's Mystique and Millenium cards, and of course my trusty old Cirrus Logic chip infested (translate ancient) 1MB PCI card that's been through about 6 computers...

Printers: I'm running a HP Desk Jet 400 now that was used when I got it 4 years ago, and still can't kill it, and my old HP Laser Jet Series II has been cranking out some of the best quality print jobs you'd ever want to see for about 10 years, maybe more, until recently when the fuser decided to cash it in. Got it used too...Can't say muich about the others, except for my even older Epson which worked great until I retired it, and I'd bet it would still chug along if I pulled it out of the closet.

CPU: I guess the AMD should work fine, I've always favored Intel, since they invented the CPU, even if they are often more expensive. As I mentioned in another thread, that's mostly a matter of personal preference. Lots of people are having good results from the newer AMD's, so I won't knock them.

Memory: As someone else stated above, memory can be upgradd later, I'd stick with 128MB, that's usually plenty for most home or business applications. The software you mentioned should perform quite well with 128MB behind it. Put the extra buck$ into the monitor. No recommendations there, except the same advice as above, check around at computer shops and look at them, see what looks best to you, since you have to sit there and stare at it for hours on end.

Speakers: Again, check around and listen to them. The companies can produce all the glitzy ads they want, and if the sound isn't what you want, you won't like them. I've seen the cheaper brands sometimes sound better than the top-of-the-line stuff...And I'm a musician, and very picky about sound quality...I want it to sound like I'm in the studio with them. My favorite test is Pink Floyd's "The Wall" or "Momentary Lapse of Reason". I want to feel the bass and hear the clicks of David Gilmour's pick as it scrapes the guitar strings. Not to mention all the myriad background noises they stuff into their tracks.

Case: Up to you, but do make use of the space provided for a secondary case fan, and route it to move air the same direction as the power supply's fan. A larger case does offer more room for heat dissipation, but also makes the fans work harder since they have further to move the air to get it out of there, and more of it.



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Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[Bmcdanold]

Oh if you were interested, paradisepc.com is selling 1000mhz thunderbirds for about 480 dollars. They used to be a lot more! Also as far as a video card...I have been extremely pleased with my Creative Annihilator GeForce 256 32mb DDR, but if youre not looking for ultra high end 3d gaming i would go with something like a TNT2 Ultra or maybe an ATI Rage based card. ( I must say the best chipset ever is the ATI Mach64, but thats just me hehe) Dont bother with 256mb of ram, that would just be a prestige thing. Oh and one other thing, just a thought, you might consider a Sound Blaster Live based sound card if you wanted an actual sound card, they are great! (SB Live Platinum yeah!) and they come with soem games too hehe (Need for Speed 4, Theif and Descent 3)

However, you say this machine is not so much for gaming...THIS MACHINE WILL ROCK FOR GAMING! hehe. When you build it, go to www.madonion.com (http://www.madonion.com) and download 3dmark2000 and test your 3d capabilities!

[ReddDogg]

I can tell you some personal experience on the Ram factor that people have mentioned. Microsoft products don't utilize ram over 128 megs of ram. I used to have 256 megs in my main machine, but I yanked a stick out and put it in a new computer I built cause I didn't need it... my system ran fine without it. As far as hard drives go, it does make a noticable speed difference between just a hard drive and a raid stripe set using ide drives. It doesn't outperform scsi, but it does offer a major boost. Over here the controller card costs about 50 bucks. However, I don't know what kind of support Linux and Be OS has for that sort of thing.

As far as video goes, a good card for the money is the Diamond Stealth III s540 in either agp or pci, depending what your board supports. You can get it from diamonds homepage for 69.95, but I generally have found them places like ubid and other auctions and bargain stores for 50-60 dollars. It will let you play any games you might want to, and it has good performance. It is supported by ME and I know it comes with Windows NT drivers, and in my opinion Diamond Video is the best.

As for a modem, you say no internals.... I always go internal, and I always go Diamond Supra, best modem on the market, is best at combatting line noise on your phone lines. In that respect, I am qualified as much or more than anyone in here, working for an internet service provider in helping people with connection problems, line noise is #1 cause of all internet connection problems, followed closely in second by that stupid microsoft registry... http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif However, external modems are very good at getting connection speed, and I understand your desire for one, I recommend Us robotics modem for such a need.

I have always been a fan of FIC motherboards, but I don't know which ones are the absolute best... I buy mobo's in person and the place I go only offer 5 brands, other 4 I have never heard of, but I had never heard of asus until I came to this site.

As for processor, love the 700, that is a good speedy processor, but if you are not playing games, I can't imagine you needing better than a 500, 600 tops. The K6-3 bench marked as good or better than comparable PIII's at that speed, and had not the Athlon come along to take it's place, a K6-3 would be running in my main machine.

Well, good luck on your assembly, hope you don't break the bank in making it. I would love to see your face using the system you described right after the 486.... you will see why people like me can't stand using the older computers for extended periods... http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/cool.gif

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Joe Redd
MCP