Windows XP Code Activation

[Neo Master]

I am considering Windows XP because I want a change and I like to redo my hard drive about twice a year and want to know will I have any problems with the activation code if I intall it again? Say over 5 years if I stay with this OS I would need to install it 10 times would XP allow me to do this?

[john5211]

Here is a summary of how activation works:

When you initially install XP, you will be prompted to activate, which you can do over the internet. As part of the process, XP "takes stock" of your system to see what hardware you have. At this point, let's consider reinstallation and hardware changes seperately.

If you ever reinstall windows, you will have to reactivate; however, as long as the hardware is the same, the activation should procceed as above (ie over the internet w/o any input from you).

Now, with regard to hardware, XP checks several of your components (MB, HD, network adapter, etc.); if, over the course of 120 days, several of these components change, then you will be prompted to call MS and get a new activation code. In theory, though, you still don't have to give any personal info as long as you explain that you changed a bunch of components or whatever. Also note that you have to change several components for this to "kick in," so just changing your hard drive would not cause you to have to reactivate.

Combining the two scenarios, if you change hardware and reinstall XP, you will have to reactivate it. If you have not changed "too much" hardware, it should proceed as it did the first time (no phone call required). If you changed a lot of hardware, you should be prompted to call MS and tell them that you changed a bunch of hardware.

Note that the timer resets every 120 days, so you could change your entire system out over the course of the year, as long as you did it incrementaly.

Bottom line: If all you ever change/format is your hard drive, you will should have no problem with activation, but remember that you can only install XP on one machine (one licence = one machine, this has always been the case, although no one ever paid any attention to it; side note, you might be suprised how many people post to the USEnet absolutely livid that they can no longer buy one copy of an OS and install it on all their computers).

Their is also a work around for the HD format thing, so that formatting your drive will not count against your hardware changes. If you are intrested, search microsoft.public.windowsxp.general for more info. Also, their is much more info on activation at:

http://www.microsoft.com/WINDOWSXP/home/evaluation/overviews/activation.asp

John

Edit: Just in case I wasn't clear, in any of the preceeding scenarios, the worst that it gets (in theory) is that you have to call a toll free number and get an activation code.

[This message has been edited by john5211 (edited 03-11-2002).]

[hiredgoonz]

That is ideally how it is supposed to work, however, not all software works exactly according to plan.

I changed enough hardware to get locked out my system. Couldn't connect to the net, because my NIC was one of the things changed. It prompted me to call the number and punch in the 10 digit code displayed on my computer. Problem was the code was all dashes.

Now, maybe I have a cheap phone, but there is no dash button on it.

And I remember old M$ licenses "let" you install software on a desktop and laptop. Presumably you would only be using one at a time...

------------------
When all else fails, read the instructions.

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[john5211]

All dashes huh? You need the Bill Gates secret decoder ring (49.95 + S/H) to decode it http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif.

Seriously, though, with regard to licensing, MS has always (and still does) allowed you to install a copy of OFFICE on both your desktop and laptop. They have never had this policy with Windows.

Regards,

John

[This message has been edited by john5211 (edited 03-11-2002).]

[sea69]

yeah well......................while XP is the best thing I have seen or been on EVER, I think M$ has enough $$ and I don't participate in their scheme of activation.

I'm not telling anyone to do or not to do ANYTHING at ALL, and I'm not answering any follow ups on this- do your own research on it, but just saying stuff em'

next thing you know we won't "own" our computers at all, this is where they're heading- there will be toaster-pc's available like mailboxes on every corner where we will all RENT time from M$ to use their programs and servers on a pay per use schedule... yeah right!

If I pay for something, I own it, that's MY "law"

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)

[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 03-11-2002).]

[john5211]

Let me see if I got this straight:

Because MS is a large, profitable company, you don't plan on obeying the EULA that you agreed to. Furthermore, based on MSs attempt to curb piracy, you believe that they are going into the hardware buiseness in order to turn life itself into a fee based subscription service. And finally, you feel that it is your right to follow the laws that suit you and make up your own when they don't.

Wow. Hope I never get on your bad side.

Regards,

John

[sea69]

well, your "interpretation" is basically correct, especially the last part.

I didn't phrase it that way in the points you mentioned.

I don't consider any agreement that I am forced into agreeing to valid.

you have your opinions, I have mine, and that's the way it is.

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)



[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 03-11-2002).]

[YODA74]

Well what do you think M$ is trying to do sounds like sea has it down pat.
to each his or her own,As long as your not pirating for resale and it's your own equiptment what the h*ll difference does it make how many times you use the OS and how many machines in YOUR OWN home that you use it on.
Sounds like your trying to do some policing up for M$? IMHO http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Death has come to our windows.

-- Jeremiah 9:21
(undoubtedly a Biblical reference to a Microsoft product!)

YODA74@carolina.rr.com

[sea69]

Yoda http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

john5211- your advice to this poster is however legally correct, this demonstrates that if you have enough MONEY you can get, break, have new LAWS created, not enforced, enforced to suit your own requirements.

There is also a LAW on the books that you can LEGALLY beat your wife on the church steps on Sunday evening.....

how many people are going to do that?

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)

[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 03-11-2002).]

[john5211]

Hey all,

I'm not exactly a big fan of MS, but look at what you are saying. Sea, you say "I don't consider any agreement that I am forced into agreeing to valid." Well, no one is forcing you to do anything. You did not have to buy Windows XP. Knowing full well that they would require you to activate the program, you bought it. Yoda, why exactly do laws stop at our doors? It's not like software licensing is a gimmick that MS invented; it is standard procedure throughout the industry, so much so that even freely distributed software has to have a license to make sure that it stays free (GNU).

I think in most respects I agree with you. I believe that the way MS licences its operating systems for home use is flawed; I sincerely hope that they change it. I think that if they want to remain a viable software company, they will eventually have to.

However, I also believe in the rule of law. I believe that just because I don't happen to agree with a law does not mean that I don't have to obey it. I think I pay too much income tax; that doesn't mean I can stop paying.

Finally, and I don't say this in any mean spirited sense, but you seem to be somewhat self serving with your indignation. You could have stood up for your principles and not given MS any of your money while refusing to play into their "activation" game by not buying XP, but it was not until after you bought their product that you felt some need to stand up and fight the bully.

Anyway, thats just my two cents http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif.

Hoping not to come of as some ranting lunatic,

John

[sea69]

Illegal for a man to give his sweetheart a box of candy weighing less than fifty pounds.

You may not fish on a camel's back.

Riding a merry-go-round on Sundays is considered a crime.

If a police officer approaches a vehicle and suspects that the occupants are engaging in sex, he must either honk, or flash his lights and wait for three minutes before approaching the car.

You may be convicted of a Class 4 felony offense, punishable by up to three years in state prison, for the crime of "eavesdropping" on your own conversation.

Law forbids eating in a place that is on fire.

It is illegal to give a dog whiskey.

Kisses may last for no more than five minutes.

One-armed piano players must perform for free.

A man with a moustache may never kiss a woman in public.


These are "silly" laws, but LAWS non the less.


"Finally, and I don't say this in any mean spirited sense, but you seem to be somewhat self serving with your indignation.

You could have stood up for your principles and not given MS any of your money while refusing to play into their "activation" game by not buying XP, but it was not until after you bought their product that you felt some need to stand up and fight the bully."


who's "indignant"??

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

on this point I can confess that M$ has NEVER gotten any of my money (directly), and most likely never will.

"Hoping not to come of as some ranting lunatic,"

not at all, we welcome civilized discussion here.

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif


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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)



[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 03-11-2002).]

[john5211]

sea,

You have an impressive list of nonsensical laws. I read somewhere that its illegal to take a bath in Florida. Doesn't mean I think we should round up everyone that smells good and throw them in jail.

The fact is, there are many laws on the books that are not enforced; unfortunately (for people who want free software), the laws about intelectual property are not among them.


Regards,

John

[This message has been edited by john5211 (edited 03-11-2002).]

[YODA74]

Not going to turn this into silly nonsence but the fact is certain laws DO STOP at my doors after all I do own it out right,That goes for anyone that say's I cannot do something whether it be legal or not in the confinds of my home as long as it does not harm anyone,this includes M$ right down to G.W.Bush. If you bought a refridgerator from Sears and Sawbucks would you allow them to tell you that you could not change the compressor out without calling them fist I think not.Besides Monopolies in this country are against the law and don't call it free enterprise thats bull! Besides M$ needs a good WEDGIE just to tighten that ass up a little bit.

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Death has come to our windows.

-- Jeremiah 9:21
(undoubtedly a Biblical reference to a Microsoft product!)

YODA74@carolina.rr.com

[john5211]

Yoda,

whether it be legal or not in the confinds of my home as long as it does not harm anyone

Software piracy is not a victimless crime, I don't care who you are stealing from.

Besides M$ needs a good WEDGIE just to tighten that *** up a little bit.

You're absolutely correct. Just do it legally (and morally). I suggest that you uninstall windows and give your copy away to someone who was going to buy it anyway! Now that's taking money out of MSs pocket!

Also, you are correct, monopolies are illegal. Last I checked stealing their stuff didn't bust the trust.

Regards,

John

[This message has been edited by john5211 (edited 03-11-2002).]

[This message has been edited by john5211 (edited 03-11-2002).]

[YODA74]

Everything I do is legal! as far as moral? whose to say what is moral for one and what is moral for the other only one's i ever hear raving about morality is usually some Whinny tree hugging Liberal that can't stand not to have their nose stuck up someone elses butt. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif

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Death has come to our windows.

-- Jeremiah 9:21
(undoubtedly a Biblical reference to a Microsoft product!)

YODA74@carolina.rr.com

[sea69]

in general- I have found that those whom are vehement in their claims of legitimacy, are hypocrits and or profit in some way from their stand.

as for those advising morality, they should perhaps check their own closets.

what I mean is, there are a lot of BIG name people who feel inclined to tell everyone what they believe is right and correct- until they are caught practising something entirely different.

just some thoughts on it, nothing personal directed at anyone.

again, to each his own (or her)- there are many that oppose P2P file sharing as well.. but that won't stop it.


it all seems to head back to the subject of personal freedom/ versus government control.

you ever see our GUN thread in after hours here??

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)

[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 03-11-2002).]

[hiredgoonz]

As far as the HOLY EULA goes...you ARE forced into the agreement. You can't read the EULA until you buy the product at which point you are told that if you DON'T agree, then you should return the software.

How many places do you know that accept returns on opened software??? I know of none.

And as far as the victimless crime. Unless you would actually buy a copy of your OS for each computer, you're not taking anything from M$. If they were never going to get the money in the first place, what are you taking from them? If they aren't supplying you with any additional installation media or tech support, is is really costing them anything?

This is different than if you went to Best Buy and stole 50 copies of Office. That is depriving someone of something that they could profit from. But if there was no sale in the first place and no chance of said sale, is there a crime? Except in the world of the EULA of course, I think Puff the Magic Dragone lives in EULA land...

It really turns into a philosophical argument at this point. As such you can view it from many different perspectives. Personally I don't feel that the EULA is legally binding according to the spirit of the law. It is a conract entered under duress...you have no choice. As far as the letter of the law. Does anyone think that laws are not influenced by $$$ ? M$ can influence what the letter of the law says, but common sense does not necessarily follow the dollars...

Would you sign a contract without reading it first?!? Well, that is exactly what M$ is expecting you to do. Sorry, but that doesn't fly with me. And to be honest, I DID purchase a copy of Windows XP. I didn't have to break activation until activation broke my computer...

------------------
When all else fails, read the instructions.

Microsoft Knowledge Base (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;rid;kbinfo)

Google (http://www.google.com)

[john5211]

Yoda,

I apologize if I insinuated that you were acting immoraly or illegally. Rereading my post I see that you could have interpreted it that way, although if was not my intention.

Sea, you are of course correct to assume that I am in no position to preach morality to anyone, I find my grasp of it tenuous at best. Never the less, I do not agree that it comes back to freedom vs. government. If people decide to steal from software companies, it is theft, no matter what we think of the company. Government has nothing to do with it.

P2P file swaping is much the same, just because everyone does it doesn't mean it is OK.

Hiredgoonz, I certainly think you would be well within your rights and any resonable interpretation of the law to take steps that make your product function the way it is supposed to. However, I think you are mistaken about returning windows. You may not be able to return it to Best Buy or wherever you got it from (that is probably an issue to take up with the retailer, maybe we should steal some CD's to teach them a lesson?), however, Microsoft has offered a 30 day money back guarentee on their product. Gratned, they have not advertised that they will give you your money back, but if you call them w/in 30 days of activation (or maybe it is date of purchase?), they will arrange for a refund. So it would seem that everyone does have a chance to read the EULA and even try out the product.


Regards,

John



[This message has been edited by john5211 (edited 03-11-2002).]

[YODA74]

John I didn't think that at all! I thought we all were just haveing a normal Disscusion everyone has a different opinion on the way things should and should not go,This would be no different if we were sitting in my living room or in your's I decided about a month ago if people here couldn't have a difference of opinion and keep it halfway civil then i just wouldn't respond. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif So in short Taint no feelings hurt here http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/cool.gif

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Death has come to our windows.

-- Jeremiah 9:21
(undoubtedly a Biblical reference to a Microsoft product!)

YODA74@carolina.rr.com

[john5211]

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Good to hear, Yoda. This certainly is an interesting forum you folks have.

Regards,

John

[hiredgoonz]

I would love to see the windows return policy in writing. Of course, that's not what the EULA states though is it? Copied directly from eula.txt in C:\windows\system32 we read:

YOU AGREE TO BE
BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS EULA BY
INSTALLING, COPYING, OR OTHERWISE USING THE
PRODUCT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE, DO NOT INSTALL
OR USE THE PRODUCT; YOU MAY RETURN IT TO YOUR
PLACE OF PURCHASE FOR A FULL REFUND.

IF M$ is willing to accept returns of their products, that's great, however if I decide to return the product, how do I go about it? Since this policy is not advertised in any way, how is Joe Consumer supposed to know about it?

And then who bears the responsibility for this? Who has to wait with several hundred dollars of their money in limbo? Who would pay the shipping for return of the product? Who would pay the original sales tax?

I have kind of a hard time accepting that something is legal or illegal simply because M$ decides it to be so. And I'm not suggesting that stealing is a way to "teach them a lesson" It seems, john, that you are trying to pigeonhole all of the arguments here as some sort of childish revenge against M$...

Like I said, I bought XP, I followed their rules and ended up having to reformat my drive, break activation FOR MY LEGALLY OBTAINED SOFTWARE, and then reinstall it.

I checked the M$ homepage, I can find nothing about ANY return policy in searching their website.

I have found anecdotal evidence on the web that you can return an OEM version. It took 3 months and letters, emails and phone calls and ultimately, Toshiba, NOT M$ refunded a guy some money.

Another fellow had no results after 8 1/2 months, so I would say that the "policy" is, at best, not very reliable.

BUT I would love to see said policy in print somewhere, if it exists...and who would you call? Have you ever tried to contact M$ by any means and reach a human being?

If there is a return policy, but it is just very well hidden, then M$ is just further proving the rotten treatment of its customers. If they were such a great company would they be in court falsifying software demonstrations? And as far as interpretation of law, M$ has basically told the court that they willdo research and decide if they have to release any more information to the court...

What other defendant could tell the judge that they will do some research to determine how they are affected by the law?!? That is just mind-boggling.

"Your honor, I will get back to you on whether this murder conviction requires me to go to jail" I'm sure that would work...


------------------
When all else fails, read the instructions.

Microsoft Knowledge Base (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;rid;kbinfo)

Google (http://www.google.com)

[This message has been edited by hiredgoonz (edited 03-11-2002).]

[john5211]

HG,

It may seem like I'm trying to make everything about MS, but I think that is because their is a great deal of resentment and dislike of the company (for very good reasons, I might add). Unfortunately, this resentment creeps into the way that we look at software piracy, via people saying things like "they deserve to be ripped off" or "screw them, I'm taking what I want" (I'm not quoting anyone in specific http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif).

Actually, my argument concerns all software. MS did not invent the model of selling a software license to use on a computer, it is standard practice throughout the software industry. Consider for example Partition Magic, Norton System Works, or any number of utilities that allow you to purchase only one licence per computer that the software will run on. Some companies are even more restrictive; many games, for example, will not run unless the CD is in the drive (imagine if MS did that with Windows!).

My point is that just as it is illegal to buy NSW (or ZAP) and put it on all your machines at home, it is also illegal to buy a single licence for an OS and install it to multiple machines. It is not suddenly OK to illegaly install this software just because we don't like the people who make it. It is not suddenly OK to steal other peoples product just because we know a bunch of other people are doing it.

Sure the model is broken (in my opinion, anyway) and as home networks grow in popularity ALL software companies will need to find a way to adjust their licensing practices accordingly. Sure, MS (and software companies in general) have some of the worst customer "service" imaginable. Sure, price inflation seems to be out of control. None of this makes stealing acceptable, and software piracy is stealing, like it or not, EULA or no EULA.

Regards,

John

Edit: PS, I like your solution to your problem. By all means, if they sell you something that doesn't work right, fix it so that it does.

[This message has been edited by john5211 (edited 03-11-2002).]

[hiredgoonz]

Well, actually, you're ignoring whether the EULA is legally binding or not. If the EULA is deemed to be a contract that is entered under duress, or if it is violated by MS in that you can't really return the software, then the EULA becomes null and void and there is no piracy in installing it on more than one machine.

This is not just a simple black and white issue. M$ violates the EULA simply by the way in which it is executed. Why don't they just print it on the box? There would be room on the back. That would put an end to any arguments about whether the EULA is legal.

But it is handled in a way that makes it impossible to read before you buy. No returns are possible and you are stuck either not using software you bought or using it according to a contract you couldn't read until you were bound by its terms.

Of course all of this is pointless hypothetical nonsense. But there ARE companies that allow you to get a refund for software. So why is it that the "big guys" get to break the law? And it is most certainly breaking the law...

Two wrongs don't make a right and if I pirate software then I'm breaking the law. I'm willing to accept that. However, this whole discussion was ignoring the fact that MS violates the same EULA it expects you to follow. Now how seriously do you expect me to take something that is violated by its inventor as soon as it is written?

------------------
When all else fails, read the instructions.

Microsoft Knowledge Base (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;rid;kbinfo)

Google (http://www.google.com)

[john5211]

Can't argue with that http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

John

[sea69]

WoW! hiredgoonz-

I saved this bit of irrefutable LOGIC and named the file "goonzMS-EULA".


http://seanweb1.homestead.com/files/tumbs.gif

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif



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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)

[hiredgoonz]

Thanks, just venting, the whole EULA thing has bothered me for a while...

------------------
When all else fails, read the instructions.

Microsoft Knowledge Base (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;rid;kbinfo)

Google (http://www.google.com)

[ErnieK]

MS agreement in XP, well we have all read it in detail, havent we? http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif
Or have we? Have a look at the following link
http://www.arachnoid.com/boycott/

At the bottom of the page you will find the following

Addendum -- February 2002
In a breaking news story, some Microsoft customers have discovered this new passage in the Microsoft XP EULA (End User License Agreement, the binding contract that every Microsoft XP customer agrees to):

"You acknowledge and agree that Microsoft may automatically check the version of the Product and/or its components that you are utilizing and may provide upgrades or fixes to the Product that will be automatically downloaded to your Workstation Computer."

This passage says, in essence, that Microsoft has the right to examine your computer's hard drive and download software onto your computer automatically, without your knowledge or explicit consent.

Conclusion? Microsoft holds you and your rights in contempt, and they want total control over your computer — and your life. They expect you to take this lying down. Please — don't live up to their expectations.

I now leave you to your own conclusions!

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Ernie



[This message has been edited by ErnieK (edited 03-12-2002).]

[borgdrone1of2]

hello
yes stealing is a crime.lost sales of soft ware cause lost profits.
on the lighter side of things .
whem a corperation says it lost $12,00,000 in the first 1/4 it does not by any means mean they are in the whole it just means they made $12,000,000
less this quater than in the last pervius one .m$ if it was them in that quater would still bave made a good billion .
its to bad when we lose money we are in the hole.lol
you can sure see corperate honesty and reason in this http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

have a nice day

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resistance is invigorateing lol