No output to monitor during post

[biggtn]

I am attempting to build a modest P4 system. I have hooked the MBD and CPU to the basic monitor,mouse,keyboard and power supply. On power up the fan runs, the hdd led lights, but nothing is seen on the monitor. I have used several pci graphics card but the problem is with all of them. If I remove the Graphics card the problem is still the same. In this mode I get no BIOS alarm signals.
If, however I remove the RAM stick an alarm signal indicating that NO RAM PRESENT is heard.

Question No.1:- Does the NO RAM alarm signal confirm the processor is working or is the signal generated within the BIOS?

Question No.2:- Is the POST failing between the RAM test and the VIDEO test. If it is how can sort out the problem with no alarm indication or screen display?
Any suggestions please?

[rio_bugarin]

whats the brand of motherboard brand?As far as I know, Different mb have different error codes or alarm signal.

Also what is the processor clock speed? Is it overclocked?

What is the color of the LED light in the MONITOR?

I cant answer your questions but I have a suggestion. Try your components (CPU,RAM,Video, or even your monitor) to your friends' p4 system.

[PrntRhd]

Do you get the beep indicating POST?

See this sticky by Pete:
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=39685

[Sylvander]

"I remove the RAM stick an alarm signal indicating that NO RAM PRESENT is heard"
This tells that the POST is running successfully [a GOOD SIGN].

"Question No.1:- Does the NO RAM alarm signal confirm the processor is working"
YES.
Not only that, but the POST is running and getting at least so far as to test the RAM and fail that test.
This suggests that the BIOS is not being "shadowed" into RAM, otherwise the BIOS's POST wouldn't even run.
Hence the above confirms that [when the RAM is in place] the POST is normally halting at some point after that failing RAM test.

"is the signal generated within the BIOS? "
The BIOS's POST program is run by the CPU, so that must be ok. In fact, all is well except the test that makes the POST halt [without any beep code].

"Question No.2:- Is the POST failing between the RAM test and the VIDEO test."
YES.
Or rather, I think there is likely no test of the video card, and it's just that there is a failure to initialise the video card. Either that or some other test fails prior to that point in the process.
Try removing the mouse and keyboard also and put your RAM back in place and startup.
Then try startup with your video card removed. No difference?

Here is a generic Phoenix BIOS up to the point where there is a display:

Code_Beeps_POST Routine Description
02h Verify Real Mode
03h Disable Non-Maskable Interrupt (NMI)
04h Get CPU type
06h Initialize system hardware
07h Disable shadow and execute code from the ROM.
08h Initialize chipset with initial POST values
09h Set IN POST flag
0Ah Initialize CPU registers
0Bh Enable CPU cache
0Ch Initialize caches to initial POST values
0Eh Initialize I/O component
0Fh Initialize the local bus IDE
10h Initialize Power Management
11h Load alternate registers with initial POST values
12h Restore CPU control word during warm boot
13h Initialize PCI Bus Mastering devices
14h Initialize keyboard controller
16h 1-2-2-3 BIOS ROM checksum
17h Initialize cache before memory Auto size
18h 8254 timer initialization
1Ah 8237 DMA controller initialization
1Ch Reset Programmable Interrupt Controller
20h 1-3-1-1 Test DRAM refresh [some test failing between here and the end]
22h 1-3-1-3 Test 8742 Keyboard Controller [this seems ok - no beeps heard - does your BIOS beep for this?]
24h Set ES segment register to 4 GB
28h Auto size DRAM
29h Initialize POST Memory Manager
2Ah Clear 512 kB base RAM
2Ch 1-3-4-1 RAM failure on address line xxxx*
2Eh 1-3-4-3 RAM failure on data bits xxxx* of low byte of
memory bus
2Fh Enable cache before system BIOS shadow
32h Test CPU bus-clock frequency
33h Initialize Phoenix Dispatch Manager
36h Warm start shut down
38h Shadow system BIOS ROM
3Ah Auto size cache
3Ch Advanced configuration of chipset registers
3Dh Load alternate registers with CMOS values
41h Initialize extended memory for RomPilot
42h Initialize interrupt vectors
45h POST device initialization
46h 2-1-2-3 Check ROM copyright notice
47h Initialize I20 support
48h Check video configuration against CMOS
49h Initialize PCI bus and devices [any PCI devices attached?]
4Ah Initialize all video adapters in system
4Bh QuietBoot start (optional)
4Ch Shadow video BIOS ROM
4Eh Display BIOS copyright notice

[biggtn]

I have removed the mouse, keyboard and video card. No beeps heard.
Re-checked the RAM situation and it's still the same. No beeps when RAM is in but beeps when removed.

[Sylvander]

1. Motherboard battery ok? Try resetting the BIOS defaults.
2. Any bulging capacitors? See http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=25482

3. Use these for reference:
Sylvander’s Diagnostic Flowcharts
Download a copy of my diagnostic flowcharts from here
www.erniek.eclipse.co.uk/downloads/sylvanderdiags.zip
and print them to leaf through.
Begin on the STARTUP chart.
You should end up on the NO POST chart at "System Board or something on it is faulty". The list of possible culprits is small because you have very little connected. Yet something is failing the POST.
Can you have the motherboard tested?
Is it still under warranty?

4. TESTING ATX POWER VOLTAGES

See this http://www.ochardware.com/articles/psuvolt/psuvolt2.html
And this http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=152496#post152496

Black = ground
Red = +5 volts
White = -5 volts
Yellow = +12 volts
Blue = -12 volts
Orange = +3.3 volts (?)
Green = power on

Turn the power on. The fans should at least come on so that you know you have power.

Turn on the voltmeter and set it to measure DC voltage. Start with an IDE power connector that is not used. Place the black lead of the voltmeter in the hole of the connector that has a black wire (ground). Connect the red lead of the voltmeter first to the yellow hole and then to the red hole. The voltmeter should read +12v and +5v respectively.

The other voltages may usually be measured at the motherboard power connector by simply sliding the red multimeter test probe down the hole where each colour wire goes (with the black probe connected to any black wire as before). Really you only need to check the orange wire for 3.3 volts at this connector. If +12, +5, and +3.3 volts are all okay, then your power supply is probably fine.

Unfortunately, a low voltage measured in this way may mean a bad PSU or that some other component (motherboard, etc.) has a short and is pulling the voltage down. Therefore, the main value of measuring voltages is to eliminate the PSU as a source of the problem (if it has normal voltages).

5. And this:
-----------------------------------------------
NO POST, NO BEEP, NO VIDEO
www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=39685
-----------------------------------------------

[biggtn]

1. Swapped the battery for a known good one from another MBD

2. Checked for bulging capacitors, seems to be no problem

3. Flow charts followed but somewhat limited, finished at System board fault or something on it.

4. Power supply checked, all outputs are correct. Substituted another PSU and fault is the same.

5. Already covered by previous suggestions

I am learning a good deal about STARTUP,POST and BIOS but not much closer to the problem, but thanks for your help and suggestions.

I am waiting for another CPU and MBD in order to do some swapping. Maybe that will give a clue to the problem.

[Sylvander]

"System board fault or something on it"
That could include the BIOS's configuration settings.
Reset the BIOS defaults while all necessary [especially PCI] hardware is connected.
This will "Force Update the ESCD" table which includes all the [non-conflicting] resource allocations for PCI hardware.
This should be done every time there is a change made to the PCI hardware arrangement [so that the ESCD is allocating correct resources for the up-to-data hardware arrangement].

I've often wondered about new motherboards.
What are it's ESCD table of contents?
If you connect new items of PCI hardware to a new board, surely they have not been catered for in the ESCD?
Perhaps the 1st thing that should be done during the startup of a new board, is to "Force Update the ESCD".

[biggtn]

By "Reset the BIOS defaults" do you mean the CMOS jumper on the MBD?

I am unable to enter setup to LOAD Defaults because of the nature of the fault.

[Sylvander]

"By "Reset the BIOS defaults" do you mean the CMOS jumper on the MBD?"
Yes.
The 3 ways I know to do it are:
1. Reset them from within the BIOS Setup [you can't do it that way, as you said].
2. Use the jumper on the board to do it. Make sure the jumper is not in the "reset" position when you check it, and after reset, make sure you put it back in the normal position.
3. Remove the motherboard battery for some time, then put it back in place.

[pangea33]

biggtn, does your computer also have onboard video and/or AGP? I've had problems in the past when trying to switch from AGP to a PCI card. I ignorantly shut down the system, and swapped the video cards out. The AGP card was with a friend, and neither the onboard graphics or my PCI video card had display, even though the system sounded like it was working. I had to shutdown, remove the PCI card, and take out the CMOS battery to reset my bios. Then I connected my monitor to the onboard vga, and got video so I could enter the bios. Next I went to the PCI/PNP configuration and selected the option to check for PCI video first. Shut down again, inserted the PCI video card, connected my monitor to it, was able to boot into Windows, and install the drivers for the video card.

Not sure if this fits your situation, but it worked for me.

[biggtn]

To Pangea33............ My MBD does not have on-board graphics. Thanks for the suggestions but I have tried these options without success.

[biggtn]

I have now aquired a new motherboard and processor. This new combination works fine. I have tested it with the parts I used before (mem, video card, hard drive floppy etc.).

Armed with this success I installed the new CPU in the original (problem) motherboard and had instant success with POST test.

My original board , memory, video etc. are all OK.

After further swaps I have been able to prove the fault to the original CPU.
It will not Post in either motherboard whereas the new CPU will POST in either Motherboard.

Thanks for your help with this matter I have again learned a great deal.