Question on upgrading 478 CPU

[dfgasner]

Before I start I know that most of you think that people should go ahead and upgrade to the 775 with the PCI-E right now but at the time I don't have the cash to redo my whole system and besides that just got good deal on 2 AGP 6600GT's

Anyhow I got mine w/ my system specs which are below, and my performance increase was so amazing that my Dad got the same card for my Bro for Christmas so we hooked it up today only to find that his little 2.4 Celeron wasn't up to the challenge. unlike my performance increase in 3dMark01 from 3300 to 14,000 his went from 3300 to 6200. :(

So My question is what speed of processor does he need to get to match the 6600GT? Here are his specs:
P4 2.4 Celeron 400Mhz
Asrock P4i45G
768MB PC133 :p
MSI NX6600GT

As I know the Mobo takes both SDRam and DDR.
the Mobo will support the 800mhz processors if run in Overclock mode, because these didn't exist when the Mobo was made. And he needs 1 stick of PC2700 Ram. Doesn't bother me that isn't $60.

I just want to know what processor upgrade you guys recommend

Thanks A Bunch
Davey

[saphalline]

His platform as a whole is holding him back. The RAM isn't even keeping up with that Celeron, no dual-channel DDR capability, and no Prescott support. I say skip buying him a new stick of PC2700 DDR - just get a modest CPU upgrade and save up for a platform upgrade later on. Or skip any and all upgrades for that system and have him save up for a Sempron64/NForce4-4X/DDR platform.

For CPU upgrades for his current mobo, I'd recommend a Celeron 2.8 GHz (not a Celeron D) or perhaps a Pentium4 2.66 or 2.8 Northwood B. Just remember, no Prescott's! Those won't work with his mobo (http://www.asrock.com/support/CPU_Support/show.asp?Model=P4i45G).

[dfgasner]

Ok so your saying that we just got screwed over by buying him that 6600GT?

IDK, I think that it's mainly the cpu right now because when I try to play games high end just to see what it does, the cpu usage meter in the task manager just sky rockets and stays their. I was just thinking of upgrading him to a 3ghz 800mhz FSB northwood and with that he has to have one stick of PC2700 I was thinking a 1Gb.

IDK, I just didn't figure that the memory was going to be a big problem because we through my Dad's 1Gb of PC2700 in my brother's box and it barely made any difference because the processor was already maxed out, or atleast that's what I figured.

Thanks for the help
Davey

[hockey man]

Sorry, but that would be my opinion. That Celeron will not be able to keep up with it, and when you upgrade you should go PCIe, so that means you can't use them for future upgading. Maybe look at returning or EBaying them.

[saphalline]

The NetBurst microarchitecture is incredibly sensitive to RAM bandwidth. Without going dual-channel, that system is starving any CPU put into, even with single-channel PC2700. Of course the CPU usage will skyrocket - because the CPU is spending all its time requesting new data & instructions, and then waiting for it. Anytime any part of the CPU is maxed out, it will report max CPU usage to the OS. In this case, the massive front-end of the CPU (comprising of a mini-CPU dedicated to fetching and decoding) is trying to keep the execution units fed, and failing.

The 800 MHz FSB speed for that mobo, and chipset in general, is not officially supported, so by plopping in an 800 FSB Northwood C, the mobo is being stretched to its limits already. Granted it can support it, but with the low RAM bandwidth (PC2700 comprises less than half of what the Northwood C needs) and overall older platform, I wouldn't spend too much money on that thing.

I wouldn't say you "wasted" money on that 6600 GT (it's an excellent vid card afterall and your bro's 3DMark score nearly doubled) but I am saying that his mobo/chipset isn't quite up to the task of feeding it. A new CPU would indeed improve things, and the DDR RAM would help, too. But I personally would look into spending that sort of money on an "el cheapo" Sempron platform with AGP. The Sempron's are much less sensitive to RAM bandwidth, and a Sempron/K8T800-based mobo combo will probably cost you about the same (if not less than) a P4 Northwood C in the 3 GHz range.

[dfgasner]

So if I understand you right this should be about good:

ASUS K8U-X Socket 754 ULi M1689 ATX AMD Motherboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813131572

Rosewill 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel Kit System Memory:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820223030

AMD Sempron 64 3100+ Palermo 800MHz FSB 256KB L2 Cache Socket 754 Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819104237

Total: $230 w/ shipping

This is a bit more than he is willing to spend so if there is something that can be downgraded w/o a big loss let me know, because I don't have a clue how these AMD proccessor speeds work(Intel guy)

He just wants to make good use of his new video card and try to hit at least 2500 on 3DMark05.

Thanks for all the help
Davey

[saphalline]

Move down to a 2800+ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819104245) and save a bit of money. Also, do you already have the RAM or not? If so, just use that stick of 1GB PC2700.

[dfgasner]

No I don't already have the ram for his box. Thanks for the advice on the switch to the 2800+, now as to the speed. I know I can't compare the clock speed of my box to this 2800+, because the Intel - AMD difference. So could you give me a rough estimate on how this 2800+ would compare to my proc.

And also it doesn't say that this mobo is Dual Channel but I'm sure it is, could you pease confirm.

Thanks for all the help
Davey

[Pharoah]

i seen you had rosewill memory listed there just a word of warning on that i got some rosewill ddr400 memory and they are not matching chips they will work just fine but i did have one issue let the bios auto detect the ram because the timing numbers were different even though they had the same rosewill part numbers because one chip was pqi and the other said ld on the little chips on the memory stick

as far as a comparison ive had a northwood 2.6 with HT and that sempron will leave it in the dust amd cpu's do more instructions per clock cycle so even though the clock speed is slower it dont run slower it is actually faster
try out an amd sometime and you will see what i mean

i went back and read again omg that celeron is slow he will be alot happier with this sempron

[pangea33]

Punctuation wants to be your friend, introduce yourself.

Just playing. :D

[Pharoah]

lol yeah i do have a problem about not useing punctuation i really need to lol :D

[saphalline]

In terms of gaming, a Sempron64 2800+ will perform about the same as a P4 at 2.9-3.0 GHz. In terms of office apps, it will perform about the same as a P4 at 2.5 GHz. In terms of content creation, it will perform about the same as a P4 at 2.2-2.4 GHz. These figures are rough estimates and depend on the apps being used, but they're reasonable ball-park figures.

Dual-channel RAM? Nope. Socket 754 doesn't have dual-channel RAM capabilities. It's a limitation of the onboard memory controller used in Socket 754 CPU's. On the other hand, single-channel works just fine for them. A Sempron64 will go head-to-head with a P4 in gaming, and often come out ahead. Having the latest technologies is nice, but performance is the true metric for computers. ;)

Hmmm... I guess if you can swing it, I would recommend better RAM, too. I'd give my vote to Patriot over Rosewill any day. And right now, Patriot isn't too much more money. Consider it, but it's your call.

[dfgasner]

Yea I saw that Partriot memory last night for like $10 or $5 bucks more and thought I'd get that instead, because it's the same exact kit my dad got for his server and it works just fine.

Thanks

My brother will be happy that he doesn't have to spend too much cash to beat up my computer again :p

Thanks for all the help
Davey

[dfgasner]

Well sry I got all that help, which was very useful, but then I started to look around the internet on these Semprons. It seems to me that they are in the same class as teh Celeron D's. Which isn't bad but not really the best to upgrade, but I really didn't do that much research. The big thing is that my brother might have found a buy for his old hardware so he has an extra $100 bucks to spend on his box.
So this is what I have come up with, correct me if I'm wrong but I'd have to say that it is very upgradable. It has both the Agp slot and the 16xPCI-e slot, which seems to me a great option because he can use the card that he just got, then in 2 or 3 years he can easily upgrade to a 7800GTX w/o changing mobo, socket type, cpu, ram. That gets to be a hassel. Plus, correct me if I'm wrong but this mobo will take a pretty powerful cpu that he could also upgrade to in the future (I think it takes the X2's)?.

Here's my idea
CPU:
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor
http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819103535

COMBO W/

Memory
PNY Optima 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel Kit System Memory
COMBO Price - $230.99

Mobo
ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813157081
Price - $68.00

Total w/ shipping: $309
Total w/ shipping & Mail in Rebate: $294

Tell me what you think!!

Thanks Again
Davey