Intel PIII vs. AMD Athlon. Which is better?

[azonicbruce]

Hey there. I'm new to this site so I hope I'm not posing an already discussed question. I currently have a AMD K6-2 550 processor w/ Asus P5A motherboard. I heard K6-2 stinks for gaming so I recently purchased an Intel PIII 450 and Asus P2b-F motherboard (I haven't installed either yet). I got the processor for $100 and the m.b. for $75. However, I noticed that the AMD Athlons are a lot cheaper (for even faster speeds) and some say they're even better. Would it be worth it for me to sell the PIII and slot1 (m.b) and get an Athlon and SlotA m.b.?
<br><br>I guess my real question is which is better? the PIII or Athlon?
<br> I understand that performance is not soley based on processor speed. I'm looking for something that kicks butt on applications (ie. internet browsing/ multiple tasks/programs) but also does pretty good with gaming (ie. Quake III; Open gl). I'm also looking to stay under $200 for upgrading. I'm currently running the aforementions processor (k6-2) and m.b. (100mhz bus); with 192MB Sdram pc-100; 7200rpm h.d.; Voodoo 3 2000 PCI video card; Ethernet connection.
<br>Sorry if I babble too much. Any suggestions would be appreciated

[Paleo Pete]

AMD versus Intel has been an ongoing debate for a while now, and to me, it's mostly a matter of personal preference. Intel was the company that originally designed the CPU, for IBM so they could put together a computer small enough to fit on a desk, which we now know as the PC. Intel allowed AMD and Cyrix to use their technology and make CPU's until they released the 386. Then they said "no more," and the others were on their own. AMD did the best they could, but for a long time couldn't match Intel.

These days, from what I've heard, it's about six of one and a half dozen of the other. My preference is Intel, since the only AMD's I've used I had trouble with. Also the AMD K6-2 series above 350MHz was not compatible with Windows 95, and AMD refused to admit it for a long time, but finally did, and posted a patch. Since then, they supposedly have been working closely with Micro$oft to make sure their CPU's were compatible with Windows.

If you check around the net you'll find sites all over the place with reviews and comparisons. Some swear Intel is the ONLY CPU around, and some say the same about AMD. I think it's mostly personal preference. Once your CPU gets beyond about 400-500 MHz or so,I don't think you can really tell that much difference in performance without benchmarking it.

One thing to watch for, Intel is supported much more commonly than AMD. If you want to use an AMD CPU, make sure the board supports it, and I'd say stay away from one that requires installation of a ton of drivers just to get the CPU to work...

By the way, HTML doesn't work in these forums, only UBB. If you want to skip a line, just press [Enter] twice, instead of using the <br> HTML code. It won't work...

------------------
If you had everything...Where would you put it?

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[This message has been edited by Paleo Pete (edited 09-28-2000).]

[azonicbruce]

Hey Pete. Thanks. Since I already got a hole in my pocket, I think I'll stay w/ the PIII and Asus slot1 motherboard, until I really need to upgrade.

However, I am concerned about putting in the new motherboard. I just read some of the other forums that say you shouldn't just swap a motherboard and not reinstall the OS. How do I do this, then? My hard drive is partitioned with a C: and D: drive. The D: drive has most of my important files and Win98 (The guy I bought it from didn't give me the Win98 CD or the key code, so he just stored the OS in the D: partition)

So what should I do? Should I throw all my other important programs on the D: partition; then reformat the C: partition? Also, how would I do this? When I get the new motherboard installed and everything, do just turn on my computer or do I use the Win98 bootup disk? Then type A:\format C:\ ? Then reboot, go to D: and at d prompt type d:\cd win98 then setup.exe ?
Will this work, or is there something else I need to do?
Please let me know.

[Paleo Pete]

THat's very close. Yes, I recommend always reinstalling when swapping motherboards, it's more often problems than not if you don't.

You're very close on the procedure. If you have the CD's for the programs you need to reinstall don't worry about them. Re install them from CD. If not, even moving them to the D: drive may be problems, since many will have files still in the C: drive you don't know about, and after moving them and reinstalling they might not work. Be sure and move any zip files to the D: drive, and your Favorites folder can be copied there and replaced later, ICQ database so you don't lose your contact list, any text files, etc...

With the Windows install files stored on D: you can format C: and reinstall with no problems, since you're leaving D: alone. That's how I do this machine.


To do it:

Commands to type are in bold keys to press in . Remember the spaces in the commands, they have to be there.

Assemble the computer one thing at a time, starting with only motherboard, CPU, memory, video card and keyboard. If you don't get video at this time you have a ground problem, get some plastic or cardboard washers from a computer shop. Double and triple check the CPU jumper settings on the motherboard!! If it's an AT power supply, the two plugs each have black wires, these go in the middle, beside each other. Double check that too!! Ribbon cables have a colored stripe, this corresponds to the #1 pin on the controller and drive. If the drive or floppy LED stays on, the cable is upside down, check it again. Remember also to stay grounded on the bare frame of the computer as much as possible, to avoid static electricity.

Add floppy drive and hard drives one item at a time, checking to be sure they work. Boot to a floppy each time, and use DOS commands to check and be sure you can access the drives. You'll have to go into BIOS and tell it what floppy and hard drives you have. Check my site, posted below, and look for the BIOS Survival guide, it has great info.

Boot to the win98 Start Up Disk you made before you started (HINT) and choose [b]Command Prompt Only

C: [Enter] will access the drive. Use D: for the d drive, of course.

Switch back to A: drive:

A: [Enter]

format c: /s [Enter] the /s switch copies the system files, making the drive bootable. Remember the spaces, they have to be there, before c and /.

After the format finishes, switch to C: drive. It may ask you to reboot, do so. Not necessary to give it a label. Then:

Shut down and add other periferals, sound card, modem, etc (let Windows sort them out) and:

Boot to the win98 Start Up Disk, and choose Start Computer With CD ROM Support This will boot the machine with a working CD ROM, although with the windows files already there, it's a moot point, but it makes sure the drivers are there if needed. This will also move the CD ROM drive letter up to F:, since the boot disk creates a temporary ramdrive with diagnostic programs on it.

D:\win98 [Enter] should put you in the directory with the install files. (Check the name of the directory to be sure, if it's different, remember it, and make sure it's 8 characters or less, rename before starting if necessary.)

dir [Enter] will tell you if the directory is there. dir /w will give you a wide directory listing if it scrolls by too fast to read. dir /p will let you scroll one screen at a time, press any key to scroll, if you can find it. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif (I use the spacebar, any key will work.)

setup [Enter] Will start the installation process. Follow the onscreen prompts.

I always run the custom install, this allows me to choose which applications I want to include. Screensavers, system tools, etc, and also lets me NOT install the Online Services, which is links to AOL, MSN, Prodigy, etc. to install their shoddy software...Make sure you have the CD key handy. (The numbers are needed to do the install)

The site below also has some good links to info on building your own computer, take a look around, and you'll pick up other good info before you start. And feel free to ask here, we'll all be glad to help.

How to Build Your Own PC (http://sysopt.earthweb.com/buildpc/) I'm not sure this link is posted on my site yet, and it's good...

------------------
If you had everything...Where would you put it?

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[This message has been edited by Paleo Pete (edited 09-29-2000).]

[azonicbruce]

That's just the problem! I mentioned in the last response that the guy who sold the computer to me didn't give me the key code! He built computers himself so he probably installed the same Win98 CD on all of 'em. What to do? Also, I forgot to mention that I installed the Windows Millenium just a week ago. So I have THAT key code but I know that you have to have Win98 installed to install WinME. Besides, I was thinking of JUST reinstalling Win98SE. I'm not that impressed w/ ME. The only things I liked were the "smart menus" that hid applications not frequently used; and the System Restore (which isn't going to help me at all if I format the C: drive !! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif ) The only thing I can think of doing is going to a friend who has the Win98 CD and "borrowing" his key code. How good is Microsoft in tracking duplicate key codes?

More importanly, use said could keep my "Favorites" folder. Do I just copy/paste into D: ? Also, my main question is HOW do I save all my email messages in OUTLOOK EXPRESS. I've tried to find them in Windows Explorer but nada. Also like you said I'd like my address book from Outlook Express but how to I get it on the D:\? Let's see. What else? Can't think of anything else right now. Let me know what you know.
Thanks.

[Paleo Pete]

Don't have any good suggestions for the CD Key, except contact the person who originally built the machine. If you still had it running you could find it, but after installing a different OS it's long gone...

Only way I know of to save email addresses is to copy them into a text file, or type them into notepad. I haven't gotten anything else to work. The messages can be copied into text files too.

The Favorites folder, you got it, just right click on the Favorites folder in Windows, and copy it, then right ckick on D: drive and paste it. Remember where you found it, after reinstalling, do the opposite. When you paste, Windows will tell you it sees an existing folder and ask if you want to overwrite it. Say yes, and your Favorites will be there same as before. I have links on this machine I've had for 3 years, through 2 reinstalls. If you're running ME now, I don't know if the Favorites folder will be backwards compatible, so be careful...

------------------
If you had everything...Where would you put it?

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[azonicbruce]

Thanks again Pete. So what you're saying is that since I installed the WinME OS, I couldn't find the keycode for Win98? Shucks. Well, I guess I'll have to see my friend. Thanks for the info.

[Son of Zeus]

Paleo Pete & azonicbruce,
some good posts there guys. Paleo, thought your summing up of the AMD versus Intel debate was excellent. It is much of a muchness with them breathing down each others necks & barking at each others heels (sorry about the mixed metaphors guys) performance wise, at least, recently.

It really does boil down to the OS system & applications you're running as each processor has by definition its own strengths & weaknesses determined by its architecture & design implementations. Also chipset & motherboard factors throw further complicating factors into the equation. Ultimately they are both superb CPUs in their own rights & the price/performance ratio, total cost of ownership & personal opinion determine which u will go for. Don't forget that further price reductions are due to be announced in October by AMD & maybe Intel as well.

azonicbruce,
From personal experience I would advise u to get hold of that key code ASAP. I would also encourage u to register your Windows OS with Microsoft when u install it. They will give u a Customer No. & keep a record of your key code etc. No I won't go there. :-) Being a registered MS customer will also give u free phone technical advice for a first time installation, only. From then on you’re on your own. Actually that may be different in the States. That’s how it currently stands in Australia anyway.

By registering should u lose the key code u can get it back from Microsoft anytime. Also it’s always good to have the Windows CD. He should have given u one, together with an EULA (End User Licence Agreement), a Certificate of Authenticity, a Windows Manual & appropriate paperwork as proof of purchase. Microsoft DEMANDS these to consider your product legal & registrable. At least that has been my experience. Believe me. I'll post an interesting post re my battles & sagas with MS re all this one day.

If your friend is registered with MS to install their software it doesn't matter whether he uses only one copy of the software to install on numerous PCs. Remember if the software is pre-installed on a system it is considered to be OEM & not retail. MS argue (although I think that they make up their own rules as they go along & this shouldn't be legally enforceable) that such software is tied to the PC & cannot be sold separately from that machine. Like husband & wife the PC & its OEM software are together "till death do they part". Also, as OEM software the OEM must supply any further technical advice etc.

This is in contrast to retail software, which can be legally transferred by selling it to another party. Remember though for the buyer to legally own it the software must also come with the original EULA, COA, Manual & evidence of original purchasing details & the new sales info. Should the Manual be missing or damaged for any reason u will need to have at least the front cover. Seriously. I nearly fell about laughing when MS Sydney told me this over the phone originally. But by golly they were serious. By golly they were. They even threatened to send Billie’s Boys around to straighten out my recalcitrant, belligerent & unenlightened ways.

Cheers.......Son of Zeus.

[azonicbruce]

Thanks all. I'm getting the PIII 450 tomorrow so I'll be preparing to do this upgrade. If I have any problems I'll drop you guys a line or two. Wait a second. If my computer isn't working how in Sam's name am I going to contact you? What an idiot (talking to myself). I guess if I have problems I'll go to the engineering computer lab and ask you from there.
Thanks.

------------------
You catch more flies with honey, than with a rifle!

[Bmcdanold]

NOOO AMD! I like AMD's better, but i wont debate it. I grew up on Intels and I just got my first AMD's (a K6-2 500 and an Athlon 1ghz) I have been totally overpleased with them. But PIII's are good too! Cyrix == yuck!

[Son of Zeus]

Bmcdanold,

glad to know that u are "totally overpleased" with your new AMD K6-2 500 & Athlon 1GHz. I assume that it was the AMD Classic Athlon & not the current AMD Athlon with performance improving super duper enhanced L2 cache, or whatever they call it. How about we settle on "Thunderbird"? By the way why on earth did they change the code name from "Thunderbird" to performance blah, blah...?

Actually I think I can answer my own question. Wasn't it because Thunderbird was also a fighter plane & it might not be popular with some countries who opposed the allies at some stage, or something like that? Or was it because the puppets in Captain Scarlet upset someone somewhere?

Anyway, just wanted to let u know that I have posted under "Help me spend $$$ on new PC!!!" the specs for my planned system which includes an AMD Duron 700MHz processor. I am looking for some feedback. U sound as if u have had PCs a lot longer than me. I have had my one & only machine since January 4th 2000 ie. nearly 9 months. Eek that long ah. So as I am probably still classified as a newbie I could use some advice.

Hope to hear from u.

Chow for Now.......Son of Zeus.

[zomster]

As most here said its just a matter of personal preferance. I my self prefer AMD in the begging I woulda stuck with Intell if it wasnt for the cost differnce.. my first AMD was the K6-2 400 which I did have some problems with it but not many.. now I have a Athlon 800 and works great no probs.. If you are just using applications intell is prob the best way to go if your a gamer I would go with AMDs Athlon. They had there compatibility probs in the past but I think they have worked most of them out now and it will only get better. And if intell doesnt try to compete with AMDs pricess I can see AMD taking over a larger percentage of the market