What do I need for a complete system performance upgrade of my existing computer?

[Mac Marty]

Hey guys!
I am a PC musician who was referred to the computer geniuses on this forum. I am looking to rebuild (or upgrade) my current computer for the best performance (that I can afford) for digital audio. The computer I have now is a P-III 450Mhz w/ 100Mhz buss (I think) and 128MB, GINA audio card, Adaptec 2930 SCSI card and an ATX mid-tower chassis. Aside from the CD-ROM, GINA, SCSI card, and hard drive (I'm just going add another hard drive) I need to know what components I need to fully upgrade this system for better digital audio performance.
Here's what I have in mind:

-A new motherboard and chip set
-An upgrade to a P-III 800 or 850 or 900Mhz processor (one of those)
-And some more RAM, of course

Please tell me if I have left anything out? Any suggestions for the best motherboard and chip set for one of the P-III processors mentioned above?
I have a fairly decent grasp on the peripherals that I want; CD-R, hard drive, etc., but a little help on upgrading the aforementioned main system elements would be greatly appreciated. Thank you


[This message has been edited by Mac Marty (edited 12-04-2000).]

[Paleo Pete]

Check around at some of the hardware sites and browse through the reviews, you'll find better info than I can offer. Some of the better and more well established brands of boards are Asus, Epox, Tyan, GigaByte, MicroStar, and others are out there that are good too.

Look around, find one that supports the CPU and memory types you want to use, and has the features you want. Tom's Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/) is a good source of info, Maximum Hardware (http://www.maximumhardware.com/) is also worth a look. Also take a look at my site, posted below, you'll find other links too, and make sure to stop by the top link, Trish's, and check the Motherboard and Optimization links. Plenty great links there.

CPU...I'd think any of the 3 you mentioned should do the trick, some of the hardware sites should have comparisons and reviews that may help. Check the Intel site, they have spec sheets you can use for comparisons.

Components needed for the upgrade...you already got the list, motherboard, CPU and memory would be about all you need. Make sure the memory you plan to use is supported by the motherboard. PC133 would be the best bet for now, but you might check into a board that will support DDR for future upgrade possibility, but I would wait to see what happens with it before buying. Reason? A while back Rambus was about all Intel talked about, now it's getting difficult to get them to admit they ever said it...plus, what looks good on paper might not turn out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread in actual use.

Check out CSO (http://www.computersurplusoutlet.com) and PriceWatch (http://www.pricewatch.com) for good prices on components. Watch out for the companies on Pricewatch that don't post shipping cost, it's usually twice as much, so you're better off paying a couple bucks more for the part and half as much for shipping...

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Soon as I come up with all the answers...they change the questions!!

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[This message has been edited by Paleo Pete (edited 12-05-2000).]

[uncle_bent]

If I were you I would put my money into sound and music, rather than a new machine. Get some excellent software, top-of-the-line speakers and sound card, cd-rw, (maybe even dvd-rw), or that musical device you've always wanted etc... Your machine as described should be perfectly capable of handling digital sound processing.

I upgrade machines on the side for people, and I am less and less impressed with the speed gains that I am seeing. I think the reason is simple, each time the speed is doubled, you are splitting a smaller and smaller slice of time. What is the difference between an eye-blink vs. half an eye-blink? Would anyone really be able to tell? I still use a 200 MMX machine and am only just thinking about an upgrade. I've seen the difference between 233 and 750 mhz and I am not very impressed. A 450mhz machine is plenty fast. I watch these people doing internet chat and surfing with a 1 GHZ machine and a 56k modem and I just have to chuckle knowing that the processor is just sitting there drumming it's figurative fingers. An old IBM mainframe tech friend said it best, "They all wait at the same speed".

For what it's worth my advice to you is to put your money toward your music. Your machine is still perfectly adequate.


[This message has been edited by uncle_bent (edited 12-08-2000).]

[Paleo Pete]

HMM...seems I'm not the only kid in town who doesn't see the point in increasingly faster CPU's...I've compared my 200MMX to new 350MHz machines when they first came out, and was not impressed either. Your comment about half an eyeblink is a very good way to explain it.

I've also built 266MHz machines that would outrun new, off-the-shelf 350's. The only reason I'm even considering upgrading is to be able to check out the 100MHz system bus, it should be a noticable improvement over my current 66MHz...and I don't think I'd want to go beyond about 500 MHz at most...I seriously doubt if the human senses can discern the difference past that. When you get into nano second differences, only sensitive instruments or benchmarks will tell the tale...

To use the current system described above, music software is more demanding, so I would just add 128 MB more RAM, that might make a big difference...and cut down on the programs running in the background. Lots cheaper than a full upgrade too...

Cutting back the video resolution often makes a noticable difference, since the machine has to redraw the screen 60-72 times a second, and the more dots it draws, the longer it takes to do it, and more resources are required.

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Soon as I come up with all the answers...they change the questions!!

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[Mac Marty]

Excelent advice, thanks for the replies. So my 450Mhz should be fine huh? I too have been hearing that the difference between the faster and not so fast cpu's are not that impressive. But would a faster cpu at least give better stability, especially if I had a lot of digital audio tracks, or is something like that RAM or hard drive dependant (sorry, I know this isn't an audio forum)? What part of the system has the most effect on stability? Would at least buying one of the new 133Mhz (currently I have 100Mhz) motherboards (as well as some more RAM, as you suggested) have a great effect on performance? Thanks again for the advice!

[Mac Marty]

Sorry, I meant to ask if buying a new Asus or other great 100Mhz motherboard would have a great effect on performance. If I bought a 133Mhz motherboard then I would have to ditch my current P-III 450Mhz and 128MB's of memory since both of those run at 100Mhz. Is the difference between 100Mhz and 133Mhz the same as with fast and not so fast cpu's - not a huge noticeable difference and unimpressive? I was also wondering if chipsets come with motherboards or do you have to get those separate? many thanks again

[This message has been edited by Mac Marty (edited 12-14-2000).]

[Paleo Pete]

If you're running 100MHz bus now, I doubt if you'd see much difference, nothing amazing anyway...minor differences, but nothing to write home about...IF you're running 66MHz, yes, you'd notice a difference.

The chipset is built onto the motherboard, they come together. If you check into the hardware sites, many have write-ups about the different chipsets, if you find one you think suits your purposes better than another, make sure it supports your CPU and find a motherboard that uses that chipset.

Also, If you're thinking about a new motherboard to begin with, I would say get one that supports both 100 and 133MHz bus, then you can go to a faster CPU later, and PC 133 memory if that's what you decide to do.

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Soon as I come up with all the answers...they change the questions!!

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[adam_eddy]

I guess the speed thing matters in some applications over others. But there are other components to look at also. What video card do you have right now? If you have a slow video card, it can hang up the screen and be the slow link in the chain when you are running multiple apps full out. I can guarantee you I am seeing changes in playing Trespasser (I know it's an awful game, but hey...) or Unreal when I went from an AMD K6-233 with Diamond stealth 64 4MB video card to an AMD Athlon T-bird 900 with 3D Prophet II Geforce2MX 32MB video card. Try 8 FPS at 640x480 to 70 FPS at 800x600.

[stimpson j. cat]

Hi Mac,
Just a couple of thoughts. First, the 450 P-III should be fine for almost anything you could want to do with a cpu. Lots of people get caught up in the "faster and faster" idea when it comes to anything. Just for example, pc video games(which are often quite demanding) have requirements to be run on a cpu. Top of the line games STILL only need a Pentium 233. It will run better on a faster cpu, but you just don't need a faster cpu. A 450 mhz is absolutely enough for most applications.
Second, you should definitely get another 128 MB RAM. You didn't say what the bus speed is for sure, but you won't really notice a difference between pc-133 and pc-100. (assuming you have the 100mhz bus) The reason you need the extra RAM is because when you have many things going on at the same time, RAM is where it is stored. For music applications and such, you can have many different tracks, effects, programs, etc. all running at the same time. Therefore, your cpu will absolutely benefit from the extra room. Also, check out www.dailyradar.com. (http://www.dailyradar.com.) The pc Q&A guy has a link to his feature about how to speed up your cpu. It will tell you how to control your own virtual memory on your cpu. This combined with the extra RAM will probably be all that you need. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif
I think you should go with the RAM upgrade first, and see what happens. No reason to spend all kinds of wild money for new cpu and motherboard if you might not need to. I have a AMD Duron 650 w/128 MB RAM for my second cpu and it can do most anything my T-bird can do.
Just a sidenote, if you do decide to get a new motherboard. Don't waste your money on the new DDR memory kind. The boards that can support this will cost two arms and a leg. Stick with SDRAM and you will be fine for the next few years. Thanks for your time. Later.

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"Reinstall Windows again? Oh joy!"

[Mac Marty]

Is there somewhere I can look on my computer that will tell me what the REAL bus speed of my motherboard is?

P.S. Thanks for YOUR time! (and everyone else) http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Paleo Pete]

The motherboard manual will tell you which bus speeds are available. Look through the CPU settings. You should see the voltages, bus speeds and multipliers. The first page or two should also show motherboard specs, bus speeds supported will be shown there too.

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Soon as I come up with all the answers...they change the questions!!

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[BigBlue66]

Howdy Hey,

Here's my two cents. I agree absolutely with the advice about upgrading your video card. Maybe a faster hard drive would help, too. If you have currently a drive at 5400rpm, for example, go to one at 7200rpm.

More RAM is a good idea. You probably have a 100mhz bus. I use Sandra 2000 Standard Edition. (I'm too cheap to go for the prof version http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif) I can't remember the URL for it. Just do a search on SiSoft Sandra. It will tell you more than you would ever want to know about your 'puter.

One thing I always try to keep in mind is that: Your computer is only as fast as your slowest component. That's analagous to your comment about the 1ghz processor with a 56k modem.

If it were me, I would just upgrade some components and add more RAM. You should be able to work with that machine for a long time. Unless, of course, you are chomping at the bit to spend a lot of money, then I say, go for it. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Cheers,

Big Blue 66