My Second PC Build - Comments/Suggestions

[NimbuzWorld]

I'm building a second game machine, subject to future upgrades, with a budget of $1000 or less. Please advise for comments and suggestions on this system.

Antec LifeStyle SONATA II Piano Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450Watt SmartPower 2.0 ATX 12V V2.0 for AMD & Intel systems Power Supply - Retail Model #: SONATA II $99 (01/07/2006)

MSI K8N Neo4-F Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail Model #: K8N Neo4-F $80 (01/07/2006)

AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3200BPBOX - Retail Model #: ADA3200BPBOX $160 (01/07/2006)

Crucial 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model CT12864Z40B - OEM Model #: CT12864Z40B $89.99 (01/07/2006) QUANTITY: 2 FOR $169.98

XFX PVT42GUAD7 Geforce 6800GS 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail Model #: PVT42GUAD7 $205.00 (01/07/2006)

MITSUMI Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive - OEM Model #: D359M3D/D359M3B $7.99 (01/03/2006)

Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JD 250GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM Model #: WD2500JD $98 (01/07/2006) QUANTITY: 2 FOR $196

LITE-ON Black IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model SOHD-16P9SV - Retail Model #: SOHD-16P9SV $20.99 (01/07/2006)

PLEXTOR Black IDE DVD Burner Model PX-740A/SW-BL - Retail Model #: PX-740A/SW-BL $82.99 (01/07/2006)

Total cost without shipping/tax: $1022 (NewEgg)

For the Antec Sonata II, which brand for the case fans would you recommend for the following: a. 1 front 120mm case fan (optional) 25mm thick, b. 1 92mm fan (optional) in the air duct to cool the CPU, c. 1 80mm fan (optional) for graphics cards? For the Antec Sonata II, how is the 1 rear 120mm Tricool fan (standard) with 3-speed control to balance quiet with cooling? Is the 450Watt sufficient for the current configurations and future upgrades?

Which of the following is the better budget buy:

Crucial 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model CT12864Z40B - OEM Model #: CT12864Z40B $89.99 (01/07/2006)

Crucial 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model CT2KIT12864Z40B - OEM Model #: CT2KIT12864Z40B $185 (01/07/2006)

Crucial 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model CT2KIT6464Z40B - OEM Model #: CT2KIT6464Z40B $89.99 (01/07/2006)
What is the performance benefit between dual memory and non-dual memory in terms of the above selections?

Due to budget blow, would would you recommend 1 x 1 GB system memory and 2 x 250 GB HDD or 2 x 1 GB system memory and 1 x 250 GB HDD?

A safe assumption can be made that the investment in Geforce 6800GS 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express will last for another three years.

I have Plextor CD-R (2001) and Plextor DVD-R (2003) on the first built PC (2001), both beige colors. What is the opinion on the Plextor DVD-R PX-740A/SW-BL? What is the performance benefit for Plextor DVD-R between 2 MB cache (PX-740A/SW-BL) and 8MB cache (PX-716AL/SW)?

Thank you in advance!

[saphalline]

First of all, why the two optical drives? I understand that two of them are handy for doing disk-to-disk copying, but in a budget system that would be the first thing I would cut out. Just get one for now. And when it comes to DVD burners, I recommend this NEC (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827152055) - it's faster and cheaper than that Plexy. Or you can just get the Plexy. Either way, pick just one optical drive.

The buffer size matters much less than it used to. 8MB cache was the size of choice before buffer underrun protection hit it big. With the latest buffer underrun technologies, I daresay that CD/DVD burners could get by with just 512KB of cache.

Antec, Cooler Master, Sunon, Thermaltake, and Zalman all make good fans. A few others do, too, but that list will get you started. The fan that comes with the case looks fine. The speed control or thermally controlled fans are popular among some people, but I personally prefer just normal fans. This is just personal preference, however, and has nothing to do with the quality of the fan.

450W is enough for what you have there plus some more wiggle room for future upgrades. But without knowing how much more you plan to add, there's no way to determine if that will be enough power for the entire lifetime of the system. If you want to go SLI with two high-end vid cards, 4GB of RAM, and 3 RAID arrays, then no, 450W isn't enough. :p But it's plenty for now.

You are going to want dual-channel RAM. No question about that for a gaming system. Dual-channel RAM is a technique to increase the total RAM bandwidth to the CPU by using two sticks of RAM at once. This provides a 75% boost to RAM bandwidth and all the latest higher-end CPU's use this - from the P4 and 939 A64 to the PD and X2. In fact, on the AMD side of things, dual-channel RAM is one of the primary reasons to go with Socket 939 over 754. So yes, you will want dual-channel RAM.

To get dual-channel RAM, you need to buy RAM in pairs. So that throws out the single stick of 1GB. For a budget system, I'd recommend a 1GB dual-channel kit (2 x 512MB). You aren't likely to need more anytime soon, and honestly the money would be better spent on the vid card than more RAM or another hard drive. At least in terms of gaming performance.

A safe assumption can be made that the investment in Geforce 6800GS 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express will last for another three years.That depends on your expectations. For playing the latest games, I would never expect any vid card to last 3 years. Graphics technology has been the fastest moving computer technology since 1997, even far outstripping the ever-increasing speed of CPU's. For a computer designed to play games, the first upgrade after the initial build should be the vid card.

Then again, if you're looking for mediocre gaming performance and don't expect a whole lot from this system 3 years from now, then yes that vid card will do fine. 3 years ago, the top-end vid cards were the GeForce FX 5900 and the Radeon 9800 XT. While these vid cards have decent enough performance for the latest games, they still lag behind even the budget vid cards in the $150 range. And those two were the top-end most expensive ones. There's no way you can expect a mid-range vid card of today to stack up well to the vid cards of 2009.

[NimbuzWorld]

After some research, here's the update (changed items are in italics) for further comments and suggestions:

Antec LifeStyle SONATA II Piano Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450Watt SmartPower 2.0 ATX 12V V2.0 for AMD & Intel systems Power Supply - Retail Model #: SONATA II $99 (01/07/2006)

MSI K8N Neo4-F Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail Model #: K8N Neo4-F $80 (01/07/2006)

AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3700BNBOX - Retail Model #: ADA3700BNBOX $222 (01/08/2006)

Crucial 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model CT12864Z40B - OEM Model #: CT12864Z40B $89.99 (01/07/2006)

eVGA 256-P2-N515-AX Geforce 7800GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Desktop PC - Retail Model #: 256-P2-N515-AX $304 (01/08/2006)

MITSUMI Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive - OEM Model #: D359M3D/D359M3B $7.99 (01/03/2006)

Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JD 250GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM Model #: WD2500JD $98 (01/07/2006)

LITE-ON Black IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model SOHD-16P9SV - Retail Model #: SOHD-16P9SV $20.99 (01/07/2006)

Total cost without shipping/tax: $922

In the favor of AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego and eVGA Geforce 7800GT, an additional 250GB HDD and Plextor DVD Burner has been removed from the build list. There is a great dilemma between the fiscal struggle of 1GB or 2GB system ram due to the PC build budget of $1000 or less. With the current configurations (subject to installation of existing or new DVD burner at later date), is the 450W sufficient, especially the 7800GT requires a minimum of 450W? If not, would you recommend the following (the former built system is in Antec SX1040, heavy yet noisy):

Antec PERFORMANCE TX TX1050B Black Steel Server Computer Case 500W ATX12V v2.0 Power Supply - Retail Model #: TX1050B $124.99 (01/08/2006)

With the above configuration in mind, which ATX case with PSU (perhaps 500W +) would you recommend that is super cool in terms of temperature and super quiet in terms of noise level?

What are the temperature and heat issues for AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego and eVGA Geforce 7800GT?

To avoid unknown potential problems, would you recommend to partition the 250GB HDD into 50GB (OS: XP) + 100GB + 100GB?

I hope the above configuration as game machine will last for another three years, subject to graphics card upgrade....

Thank you for the excellent feedbacks!

.

[saphalline]

If you want a more powerful PSU, you'll have to pick your own. Finding a good quality PSU bundled with a case is nearly impossible. You just happened to pick Antec cases with Antec's excellent line of ATX 3.0 PSU's bundled in. But if you want a higher power PSU, pick a case without a PSU and then pick a separate PSU. That's what I always do. Check my sticky (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=39018) for specific PSU recommendations. But you'll have to read the reviews for how quiet they are. For the power, 500W should be plenty, even for a 7800 GT. As long as you pick a high quality PSU, you can go a bit lax on the power requirements. Keep in mind that those requirements are also based on the needs of the rest of the system in addition to the vid card.

PSU's aren't supposed to be "super cool in terms of temperature". The fans in a PSU are meant to cool the PSU and only the PSU. Cooling the rest of the system requires case fans. If you want some good but quiet case fans, look for fans with a noise level below 26 dBA. I use the Cooler Master TFL series of case fans, which are LED fans in a variety of colors that use Cooler Master's patented rifle bearings. They are very quiet for the amount of air that they push, and the fact that they have LED's is just a bonus. :D

Gaming hardware produces more heat. That's just a fact. So yes, you will have to make sure your system has a lot of airflow. For a gaming system, I recommend at least two 80mm intake fans and one 80mm exhaust fan. Or you could go one 120mm intake, one 80mm exhaust. Or whatever. Just as long as you have good airflow. Front fans in the bottom of the case should blow in, side panel fans should blow in, rear fans should blow out, top fans should blow out. Those are the cooling basics. Once you pick a case for your new rig, we can help you with the fans and airflow and all that.

Partitioning is more personal preference than an exact science. We all have our own ways of partitioning our hard drives around here. I'm sure some of the others will chime in with their ideas, or you could start a new thread in the Storage section. Just be prepared for a bombardment. ;) Also keep in mind that the 250 GB hard drive you buy will actually only be about 232.8 GiB. Loss due to the definition of a "Gigabyte", you know. I do suggest at least two partitions on any main hard drive, if only because the huge sizes we have today take forever to defrag! Also, paritions lend a hand in organization and security. Having a main Windows partition of a healthy size is beneficial to gamers because of all the games that need to be installed. And it's really not worth the bother most of the time to fiddle with installing to a different partition. And honestly, I've never seen the use of installing games to a different partition. I reinstall Windows every 9-12 months anyway, and I really only keep saved game files if I'm playing an RPG like Baldur's Gate. I don't care about Doom 3 and GTA III saved games. :p

I will second your partition info and recommend a main Windows partition of 50 GiB. You have the space, and games are getting bigger all the time. It used to be that only a few games took up more than 1GB when installed, but now I routinely install games that require up to 2-3GB each. And since I hate having to uninstall a game to make room for another one, I like to keep my main Windows partition a large size. The rest of the 182.8 GiB you can partition however you like. I guess at that point I would say make a nice little 3-5 GiB partition for making a back-up image of your main drive, if you like that sort of thing. Then just keep the rest for files and stuff.

[NimbuzWorld]

Would you recommend Asus A8N SLI motherboard? How can one use two graphic cards (double power) installed on SLI motherboard on one monitor D-SUB or DVI? Thanks!

[saphalline]

Most of my recommendations are in my sticky. You can also be reasonably assured that if I recommend one type of mobo then I'd probably recommend another in that same family (as in both the "regular" version and the "Platinum").

SLI is done internally, through both the chipset and the driver. All you have to do is configure the two vid cards per the mobo instructions and use the appropriate driver. Nothing more needs to be done externally - you just hook up the monitor to the top vid card like normal. SLI sounds harder to do than it actually is. It's quite easy once you have it all in front of you.