Putting together a new build...

[Budfred]

Howdy all... I am putting together a list for a new build and I would appreciate some feedback/ideas... I want a motherboard that will run both AGP and PCI-Express... The main question is if this one will effectively do that... I have an All-In-Wonder with Radeon 9600 GPU AGP video card...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102581

I am not sure if this is likely to be compatible with the Biostar board...

This is what I have so far:

Biostar mobo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138270

Sapphire Radeon Graphics card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102641

Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Manchester:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103547

Corsair 2GB DDR RAM X2:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145579

Xion PowerReal 600W power supply:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817190007

Gigabyte case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811233003

[saphalline]

Well, you already know what I'm going to say. :p Don't mix AGP and PCIe x16!! PCIe x16 was meant to replace AGP, not run alongside it. Bad idea to mix technologies like that.

Besides, what's the point of keeping the AIW? Just for the TV tuner? Why not buy a new TV tuner unit? ATI and NVidia (among the others) make excellent stand-alone PCI TV tuner cards or even external units.

The best mobo on Newegg that supports both AGP and PCIe x16 is this sucker (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157081), but it's really only meant for gamers on a budget who just bought an AGP vid card recently. And I certainly wouldn't suggest it for someone who can afford an X2!

Just suck it up and replace the AIW card. If you try and work with it, you'll just give yourself a headache.

[Budfred]

I did just recently get the AIW and was hoping to run two monitors out of the computer, one on each video card... I feared that they would not work together, so I will probably rethink that plan... Part of the reason that I decided to go ahead and update was that the setup I have now (1.3 Ghz P4) is not fast enough to work with the video I get from the AIW, so it produces unusable DVDs when I try to record... I will keep this system to play with, but it still won't be useful to have the AIW in it, so I essentially wasted my money on it... Oh well...

How about the rest of the setup?? With this MSI board instead??
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130484

This AIW is the only tuner card I came up with at NewEgg and it is much more expensive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102582

[hockey man]

Nice MOBO. Definitly get a nForce 4 variant weather the ultra or SLI. One other thing, that PSU, do you have any benchmarks for it? I have never heard of Xion before. Maybee Saph has though. . .

[saphalline]

No, you're looking in the wrong place on Newegg. Straight TV tuner cards & devices are not vid cards. They don't output anything to a monitor, they just input. Here's (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815116307) an ATI TV tuner card, here's (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814127987) one based on NVidia's Theatre 550 chip, and this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814122180) one is a good tuner for those on a budget.

Yeah, I've heard of that Xion before. It seems to be good, but it doesn't have a long enough track history for me to include it in my sticky. Looks like a good PSU, though, so let us know how it turns out.

[jlreich]

I have the Leadtek one that Saph mentioned for a budget, and if I remember right I think FTT does as well. I am happy with it but I am not into it all that much. Sounds like you have a specific purpose for it though, so you might want to go with one of the more expensive ones.

Speaking of FTT, anyone seen him around lately?

[Budfred]

No, you're looking in the wrong place on Newegg. Straight TV tuner cards & devices are not vid cards. They don't output anything to a monitor, they just input. Here's (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815116307) an ATI TV tuner card, here's (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814127987) one based on NVidia's Theatre 550 chip, and this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814122180) one is a good tuner for those on a budget.

Yeah, I've heard of that Xion before. It seems to be good, but it doesn't have a long enough track history for me to include it in my sticky. Looks like a good PSU, though, so let us know how it turns out.
I don't want a straight tuner card... I am looking for something that integrates the video and tuner options together, so that is why I am looking at the AIW... Do you know of any other cards that have it all??

[saphalline]

Oh really? You want it all together? I'm sorry, that wasn't made clear earlier.

Well then, no, there's nothing else other than ATI's AIW cards. NVidia has been experimenting with some VIVO integration in their latest GPU's, but it's all digital. No analog from them at this time. And seeing as how it needs to be integrated into the graphics core, there are only two companies that could possibly do something like that - ATI & NVidia. So I'm afraid what you're looking for is only available as an All-in-Wonder ATI card.

[jlreich]

Any particular reason why you want it all on one card? Most would recommend having the video card and PVR separate, each dedicated to it's own task. It's generally better and cheaper. And I take it your not a big gamer, so you can get a cheap video card and put however much you want towards a PVR to suit your needs.

Messing around at Newegg I did find this, if an AIW is really what you want. It's a cheaper than the other AIW but still somewhat expensive. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102661

[Budfred]

I am rethinking it... If I got the Sapphire Radeon video card and the MSI Theater tuner card, it would cost about the same as the AIW jlreich linked to... Is there an advantage to having two different cards rather than having it all on one??

As you pointed out, I am not really into gaming... The main purpose of the card(s) would be standard video use, making DVDs and possibly doing a little DVR stuff with TV shows that I can pick up... I am on antenna, so my options for that last thing are rather limited... :)

[jlreich]

Yes having a dedicated piece of hardware for each purpose is always better. That way they don't have to share all the same resources while they are both working. I'm sure you have seen us preach about integrated graphics. :p

With DVD making do you mean like hooking up a camcorder or DVD/VHS player and capturing in order to put onto DVD? A PVR would be needed to do that, but just burning DVD's only requires a DVD burner and the right software.

If all you really need is to capture a little TV once in a while then the cheap Leadtek and a low end video card would do just fine IMO. I was initially thinking maybe you were converting a bunch of old VHS tapes into DVD or something like that.

[Budfred]

I am looking at converting old videotapes into DVDs and possibly making new videos as well... I am not planning to start a film company, but I do want to be able to play around with it somewhat freely....

I understand the idea of using discrete components, but I have always had a tendency to fill up my PCI slots, so I tend to be careful about them... I probably don't really need to worry about that this time, so maybe I will go with the separate components... Of course, I could also use an external USB2 video tuner setup...

[jlreich]

I wouldn't think you would have any problem with space. That MSI mobo has 4 PCI, 1 PCIe x1, and 1 PCIe x4. That's 6 expansion slots beyond the PCIe x16 for video. :cool:

[Budfred]

I wouldn't think you would have any problem with space. That MSI mobo has 4 PCI, 1 PCIe x1, and 1 PCIe x4. That's 6 expansion slots beyond the PCIe x16 for video. :cool:
I have managed to fill or block that many in the past... :D

I just need to remember that they are not so necessary any more... I can attach external drives if I want more peripherals.... Just have an outmoded mindset....

[Whyzman]

I gotta tell ya Budfred, I've enjoyed my AIW and its simplicity of use, and would certainly get another...

[saphalline]

Ok, so there's a few options here.

1) - Get an older mobo with AGP. Most if not all Socket 939 mobo's will work with the dual-core X2's. You won't have all of the latest technologies, but this will save you some money up-front on getting a new vid card and TV tuner solution. Just keep your AIW (since you just recently bought it) and when you feel you've gotten your use out of it, just upgrade your mobo! Pure and simple.

2) - Use one of those mobo's that has both an AGP and a PCIe x16 slot. That ASRock mobo is less than $80 including shipping, so again, if you have to upgrade your mobo later it's no big deal. And it will let you use your AIW for a good long time.

3) - If you have to replace that AIW in favor of the latest chipsets & technologies, get an external USB 2.0 TV tuner device. It won't take up a PCI slot and it will be infinitely more portable to other systems in your house and for future systems when you upgrade. After all, looking at the technologies themselves, USB is guaranteed to be around longer than PCI!

[beerbelly]

Of course, I could also use an external USB2 video tuner setup...

Oh no! please don't. I know you realize the difference in speeds between USB, and PCI (for example). The speed difference directly relates to picture quality. Analog and digital don't get along, especially at slower speeds. I am an owner of a 2.0 tuner, and all it does is collect dust.

[jlreich]

I have managed to fill or block that many in the past... :D

I just need to remember that they are not so necessary any more... I can attach external drives if I want more peripherals.... Just have an outmoded mindset....
I really doubt you will need to hook up any external drives with that mobo. It has the usual 4x IDE, plus 4x SATA I and 4x SATA II. Up to 12 drives. :cool:

[Budfred]

jlreich,

Probably true... I just remember thinking that when I got my first computer with a hard drive at 40 Megs that I thought I would never be able to fill up all of that space... By the time I moved on to my next computer, I had filled that up and added 2 Hardcards that totalled another 200 Megs or so... The computer that I have now runs about 5 harddrives if I remember correctly... I used a PCI card to be able to hook them all up... I also have a couple of optical drives, an external DVD burner and external hard drive...

I do need to get my thinking caught up with what is actually on that board... It should provide plenty of room for everything that I am likely to use and that is part of the reason I want it... Just old habits of thinking take a while to change...

I still haven't decided for sure, but I am leaning in favor of a separate video and tuner card...

[jlreich]

jlreich,

Probably true... I just remember thinking that when I got my first computer with a hard drive at 40 Megs that I thought I would never be able to fill up all of that space... By the time I moved on to my next computer, I had filled that up and added 2 Hardcards that totalled another 200 Megs or so... The computer that I have now runs about 5 harddrives if I remember correctly... I used a PCI card to be able to hook them all up... I also have a couple of optical drives, an external DVD burner and external hard drive...
Hehe :D , I do know what you mean. I had a 10, then a 60, then a 160, and now I have a 250GB plus an external 120GB. And now I am thinking of getting another internal 250GB as my storage needs continue to grow more and more. Hell my kids have the 160 that was mine and the original 80GB. It only took them about 6 months to fill up that 80GB to the point I had to start thinking about getting them another. :eek:

And capturing video does eats up drive space real quick. There is a reason people that are hardcore into video have 2 or 3 300GB drives dedicated to video.

[Budfred]

My plan may be changing a bit... Do any of you have experience with the Antec Super Lanboy:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129145

It is on sale until tomorrow for about $40 after rebates and it looks okay by the specs, but I haven't seen one in person...

I am leaning toward the AIW that jlreich found for the video/tuner... I can see the advantage to having separate components, but I am not sure how to read the specs and the AIW seems to offer more from what I can see... The alternative would be these two:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102641
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814127987

How do the two choices match up?

Also, I am looking at the Rosewill RAM which would save a few bucks:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820223020

any comments about Rosewill??

I found the AMD 4200+ at MicroCenter for slightly less than NewEgg, so I will probably go pick it up there tomorrow... Since I also need to pick up the case tomorrow if I go with the Antec, any comments you can get in would be helpful... :)

[saphalline]

Oh yes, I have indeed seen the Antec Super LANBOY! Several times. It's a pretty awesome case. Highly portable, very lightweight (aluminum), has a nice window, takes a standard ATX PSU, has plenty of depth to make up for its lack of height, and the two 120mm fans create the best wind-tunnel you're likely to find in a case that small. It also comes with a carrying strap (this is my case of choice for LAN partying, as soon as I can get one :D), has drive rails, rubber feet for hard drives, and a little spring-loaded drawer which holds screws and parts.

The only bad thing I have to say about it is that the connectors for the front ports are not complete headers, they're those annoying individual wire thingies. I hate those. I always arrange them and then bind them with electrical tape so they can never get loose again!

Other than that, the LANBOY is a true case masterpiece. It's not perfect - it's more fragile because it's aluminum and it can't hold as much as a larger case - but there's no better case for what it does. At least IMO.

[beerbelly]

hey saph,
Is budfred going to do much lan party gaming? How about this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811170022)?
What about your dual stick vs. single stick RAM speach?

[saphalline]

The mere fact that the Super LANBOY can do LAN party gaming means that it has excellent cooling. For a dual-core machine with an AIW vid card, I wouldn't recommend anything less! The sheer amount of potential heat that could come out of those parts needs the superior cooling of the Super LANBOY. Heck, when it comes down to it, most cases out there just plain suck for high-end machines. Never enough cooling...

Haha! Speech? Nah, I don't have to do that anymore. Everyone else picks up on that now. Besides, considering the other parts in this system, I figured Budfred might be using two of those, not just one. 2GB of RAM would be more than justified. In fact, 2GB of RAM is getting easier and easier to justify for even mid-range systems.

[beerbelly]

I stand corrected. I just thought I would throw that case out there as a not so mobile, cheaper alternative.

[saphalline]

I stand corrected.I'm just obsessive about cooling, that's all. :D

[Budfred]

Actually, I have come up with a question about dual channel versus single RAM... I am looking at a couple of RAM options that are dual channel such as this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146970

or this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146841

and I am planning to get 4 gigs... This is cheaper... Is dual channel worth the extra $$ ??

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145579

Thanks for the feedback on the SuperLanBoy... I will try to pick one up tomorrow... Now I am also trying to find an aluminum power supply... I hadn't thought of it before, but that light case with a heavy power supply would be top heavy...

As usual, all ideas are appreciated... :)

[saphalline]

Is dual channel worth the extra $$ ??Generally speaking, yes. With AMD, it's more a case of "if you need Socket 939, then you need dual-channel". If you didn't need a dual-core processor, then you'd probably drop down to a cheaper Sempron-based system, right? Or even if you wanted 939 for the better chipsets, you wouldn't spend the extra money for it and then not have 1GB of RAM, would you?

In terms of system balance, it just doesn't make sense to get a dual-core CPU and not have dual-channel RAM. That just ends up starving the processors of data, and if you ever have both cores working at full steam, single-channel would hurt your performance hard! Besides, you don't need the uber-performance RAM for AMD CPU's. The normal stuff works just fine. One of the tech sites (Tom's I think) did some benchmarks with the X2's and high-end DDR500 RAM, and they found the performance increase to be around 0-3%! :eek: For the amount of money you have to shell out for 4GB of RAM, I wouldn't suggest spending even more on the expensive stuff and not get the extra performance. Get the cheaper basic RAM and leave it at that.

[Budfred]

So you are recommending the OCZ sticks in this link??

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146841

[jlreich]

AIW vs. separate.

AIW has HDTV. Do you have HDTV?

One card, one set of drivers and programs. Which probably(but not sure) makes life a little simpler.

***********

Having them separate will give you dual monitors capabilities through the video card.

You will have an S-Video output from each card. Hmm, that brings up an interesting question, can you have dual TV's?

Less of a heat issue not having one card do it all at the same time.

A dedicated chip for each purpose on separate buses.

If there is a problem with one of the cards it is easier and cheaper to replace just one. Or upgrade just one in the case that is desired in the future. This single reason makes it well worth it my mind. ;)

******

About the ram. I have two cases and an AGP video card from Rosewill, and have no problems with either. But I have always preferred to spend a few extra bucks on tried and trusted brands when it comes to ram. I would personally stick with what is on Saph's sticky. But if you decide to go with the Rosewill, let us know how it performs. The reviews are pretty good for it. ;)

Oh, and you are getting two of those right? :p Don't miss out on dual channel ram. :)

EDIT - sorry, I somehow missed your last post Budfred. I guess I didn't scroll down far enough.

[Budfred]

Actually, I have moved on from the Rosewill RAM because of the dual channel issue... I am now looking at 4 gigs of OCZ RAM in 2 dual channel packages...

The problem I have with the separate video and tuner cards is that each of them describe their specs somewhat differently and I am not really sure how to read them... I am already somewhat familiar with the AIW since I have one in this computer, so it is less confusing... If any of you can see a comparable set of features (or better) for about the same price, I would go for the separate items... I am afraid that video is the component that I have probably paid least attention too since I am not into high end video use like gaming or CAD...

Also, I am not sure what you are asking about the HDTV... I don't have HDTV now, but I am assuming that this would allow me to view it on my computer monitors... I am thinking of setting up my 19" LCD for daily use and have the 17" LCD for TV...

[hockey man]

That is a good choice. OCZ is making some great stuff. In fact, if I remember right, there high performance stuff is acctually fastest on the market.

[jlreich]

Also, I am not sure what you are asking about the HDTV... I don't have HDTV now, but I am assuming that this would allow me to view it on my computer monitors... I am thinking of setting up my 19" LCD for daily use and have the 17" LCD for TV...
HDTV is one of the pros for the AIW. If you have an HDTV then it would be a big plus if you ever wanted to hook it up to your HD-TV.

If you plan on having two monitors, then separate would be the way to go as the AIW only has one monitor connection.

Having the separate video card would allow dual monitor setup.

[Whyzman]

Are you looking at a two monitor setup? I built one for the kids a couple of years ago with the dual monitor theme which effectively eliminated an AIW. I went with the Radeon with the AVG and DVI and with malcore's advice went for the separate TV tuner...

If dual is not in your future...did I say I love my AIW?? :D

[Budfred]

I just got back from picking up my SuperLanBoy and AMD 4200+ X2 CPU...

This is what else I have on the list now...

4 gigs OCZ Dual channel RAM:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146841

MSI mobo:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130484

3 Seagate 250 Gig SATA hard drives:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148065

or 3 of these Western Digitals:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144417

Probably the Sapphire video card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102641

and probably this LeadTek tuner card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814127987

The questions I have now are:

Which of those hard drives looks like the better choice (or are there other better choices)?? The Seagate is a good company, but the seek time is 11 ms compared to the WD at just under 9 ms... Apparently the WD still has a 3 years warranty as well...

I decided it would be a good idea to get an aluminum power supply for my aluminum case and I am looking at them... Anyone have any suggestions??

Will that combination of video card & tuner card allow me to run two monitors and are they good choices with the rest of the rig I am getting??

Thanks for all the ideas so far and for any more that you have... :)

[hockey man]

From what I have heard Windows cannot really utilize more than 2 gigs of RAM, but if the money is there go for it! Go with the Westerns. SATA II over 1.5. With that video card, is there a reason that you haven't looked at a Radeon X700? Check this out: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102578
It has HDTV/S-Video/Composite Out, is that what you were looking at with the x1300? The major thing I don't like with that card is the 4 pipelines. The 700 has 8.

[Budfred]

As I said earlier, I don't know much about video... The main reason I picked that particular card is that it was in saphalline's recommended options...

The main reason I am wanting so much RAM is that I want this thing to be able to keep up in a year or so... I imagine Vista (if I even get it) will eat a lot more RAM... I may opt to just go with 2 gigs though and leave the other 2 slots open for the future...

[jlreich]

I agree that 2GB ram is enough. Like you said Budfred you can always pick up more later if needed. Or you could buy 4 and send 2GB my way. :p :D

The WD's are better because they are SATA II, while the Seagate's are only SATA I. Go for the SATA II's.

The x1300 has only 4 pixel pipes but it is the newest architecture. And I think if I remember right a better way to use the pipes. Although I have an X700 and I am pretty happy with it running games, I really don't know if the new architecture would beat out more pipes. I know Budfred doesn't need much in the way of gaming performance. I will leave the best v-card recommendation to Saph. ;)

[hockey man]

Okay, as I looked over what Newegg has and over THG benchmarks, the x1300 that you linked too is going to be your best bet. It is more advanced than the x700 so it can pull some stuff off that the x700 cannot, while the x700 versions that are slightly stronger in some gaming benchmarks (Pro, XT) are not really avaliable at Newegg. So yes, stick with that.

[saphalline]

Seagate has a newer version of those hard drives - the 7200.9 series. Unfortunately, Newegg doesn't have the 250GB versions, just 160GB then 400GB. :rolleyes: Go fig. In light of that, go with the WD's or these Hitachi's (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822145087).

Yes, the X1300 is quite powerful despite its seemingly low-end specs. For one thing, it has one shader unit per pipe! The sheer shader efficiency is truly impressive! The RV515 VPU is better than the RV410 for the latest DX8/9 games. Why do you guys think it's on my sticky?

[hockey man]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but Saph, could you explain what you mean by "one shader unit per pipe?" I should probably know, but I can't seem to remember.

[saphalline]

Graphics processors are complicated these days because we keep coming with more things for them to do! Now we got these new fangled "shader" thingies, and before that it was TnL, and before that it was... well, moving on...

Ok, so shaders are actually their own little unit in the 3D pipeline. You see, 3D rendering takes a $#^t-load of steps! First, the CPU has to set-up the scene. Wait, the CPU? Yep! The CPU starts it all out. After that, the ROP's take over the Transformation and the Lighting, then the texturing. So now we have a bunch of polygons with textures sitting around. What do we do with them? Well, we used to just leave them alone, but now we do this whole shader thing to them. The graphics processsor manufacturers and the API programmers had to find a way to squeeze in these shader units, so they just inserted them in at this point. Ok then, shaders next. Now we have a bunch of pretty polygons sitting around. Then comes the big killer...

The final stage is called "rasterization". It's a big scary word and you should all fear it! Rasterization is when all the polygons are squashed like bugs into a big flat rectangle!! Everytime I think about that I just get this image of polygons screaming in agony - and I feel their pain. On top of that insult, rasterization accounts for a large majority of the time and resources of graphics processors. It's theorized that our current GPU's/VPU's would give us about 4 times the performance if they could skip rasterization and output directly to a 3D display. Think about that one...

So anyway, back to the question. :p Since shader units exist separately from the ROP's, you can have as many or as few shader units per ROP. Obviously shader efficiency increases if you have more shader units per ROP, and overall performance on shader-enhanced games increases as the shader unit per ROP ratio approaches 1:1. This is why the X1300 turns in respectable numbers on the benchmarks, because it has a 1:1 ratio. Meanwhile the X1600 has a 2:1 ratio (or 1:0.5 if you're a graphics processor nut) so even though it has twice the ROP's it doesn't have as much shader efficiency because it has the same number of total shader units as the X1300. They still have 4 shaders, though, which is more than the previous generation of VPU's from ATI (I think the X300/X600/X700 had 2 or 3).

Is this rant going anywhere? I'm confused now...

[Budfred]

Thanks, I am going with the WD drives... I may put the whole order in tonight if I can make a couple of final decisions... saph, I am guessing you are in agreement with going with only 2 gig of RAM??

I take it no one has an idea for a good aluminum power supply??

[hockey man]

Try the one you found. That is what Saphalline recommended a while ago.

[jlreich]

Hockeyman, here is the shader post from Saph's video card tutorial. http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showpost.php?p=243393&postcount=21

I had to go read it again to brush up. There is still a bit of information in this post that my brain refuses to digest just yet. :p

[Budfred]

Try the one you found. That is what Saphalline recommended a while ago.
I didn't find a good aluminum alternative...

[saphalline]

Yeah, 2 gigs of RAM will be fine for now. Or 4 if you want. Hey, it's your money, but 2 gigs is fine for now.

I don't know of any decent aluminum PSU's. I don't really see the point of an aluminum PSU anyway. I mean really, the shell is insignificant to the total weight of the PSU. And the internal metals and components can't be reduced in weight just by switching the metal. A lot of the weight in a PSU is already aluminum: the heatsinks. And the rest of the weight is carefully designed to convert AC to DC and can't be made all aluminum. Why not just get a regular PSU?

[Budfred]

I just figured the PC would be top heavy with a regular power supply... I may just go with the Xion... I did find this Coolmax... Does anyone have an opinion on Coolmax??

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817159056

[saphalline]

Dude, it's not gonna be any less top-heavy with an aluminum PSU! The aluminum versions just have an aluminum shell. That's the only difference! It's not like there's a huge weight difference between them! Besides, the less a PSU weighs the worse the quality! It's like any other electronic component. More weight = higher quality parts.

Just get a regular PSU.

[rond36]

I gotta tell ya Budfred, I've enjoyed my AIW and its simplicity of use, and would certainly get another...

I second that and my next one will be the AIW X800XT 256MB AGP (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102492) card
and as for them not being duel monitor capable, this one is and it has an FM radio tuner on it too.
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/3020/atiaiwx800xt8ej.jpg

My AIW 9800 128 MB card will go in my daughter's PC to replace her AIW 8500DV 64MB card that is 4 years old and we are just now running into games that it can't run but it still works fine for most older games like UT 2004

[Budfred]

Okay, I get it on the weight of the power supply.... So independent of that, what do you all think of that CoolMax?? It looked to me like it might be a good alternative regardless of it being made with aluminum....

The order goes in later today, so any final thoughts are appreciated.... :)

[hockey man]

The "paper specs" seem good enough on that PSU. I'm not sure how well Coolmaxs work though. Your call. Myself, I would lean to something on Saph's sticky.

[saphalline]

There's a few too many bad reviews (in ratio against the good ones) for me to really recommend that PSU. Some people have had good luck and some haven't. It's got enough power behind it that it will probably be fine for your needs. It just doesn't look like a PSU I'd use for a super-SLI system. It's your call and your money.

[Budfred]

Here is the final config...

Asus A8N-SLI Premium Socket 929 Nvidia nForce4 mobo:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813131540

OCZ Dual channel 2Gig RAM package:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820146841

Antec TruePower power supply 550W:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16817103931

Sapphire Radeon X1300 video:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814102641

MSI Theater 550Pro TV tuner:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814127987

Western Digital 250 gig Caviar SATA hard drive x3:

http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822144417

combo with the hard drive, NEC floppy:

http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16821152001

AMD x2 4200+ CPU:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103547

SuperLanBoy Antec aluminum case:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129145

Probably a Liteon DVD burner or two...

Any comments?? :)

[saphalline]

That looks pretty good to me! :D

[jlreich]

Yeah looks good to me. Very nice setup Budfred. :cool:

[beerbelly]

I would like to second the reviews on Newegg of the software for your TV tuner. I have found in my research that the disc that comes with pretty much any TV tuner is garbage. Use it for a coaster for your beer and download from the manufacterior's site (also saves updating).
Other than that, I AM WAY JEALOUS.

[Budfred]

Just got my UPS tracking number, so everything is on its way...

The next question, which I kind of forgot about earlier, is whether to use the stock heatsink/fan that came with the CPU or to get something more aggressive... I was looking at this one, but Zalmans tend to be quite large and heavy, so I am not sure it is a good option:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118223

Any thoughts??

[hockey man]

From what I have heard, AMD's fans/heatsinks have allways been good. Even good enough for some light O'clocking. So, unless you have a case without any fans, or you will be doing major o'clocking, just stick with the stck one.

[Budfred]

My stuff is supposed to arrive today... Does everyone agree with hockey man about the heatsink?? I was looking at this one at MicroCenter yesterday:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835193002

[madad2005]

My stuff is supposed to arrive today... Does everyone agree with hockey man about the heatsink?? I was looking at this one at MicroCenter yesterday:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835193002

For that money, I'd go for this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835128009

I've prolly said this a few times now on a few forums, but this is a GREAT CPU cooler although it is a bit on the bulky side. It runs quieter than the ASUS one as well. I was going to get one myself, but it would mean having to unplug everything to remove my motherboard to replace the fan bracket for socket 478 .... to be honest - I can't be arsed.

Good cooler though. Make sure you use a decent silver-based thermal grease solution too. I've always heard bad news with regards to thermal pads.

[saphalline]

If you won't be OC'ing, and if you intend to have good overall case cooling, then no you don't need anything more than the stock HSF unit. I would suggest using the stock cooler for now and see how your temps go (keeping in mind that any thermal pad/grease takes a week or so to "settle"). If you really don't like your CPU temps after a couple weeks of gaming, then upgrade the HSF unit. (You'll also need to buy thermal grease at that point, preferably Arctic Silver.)

[madad2005]

Maybe this isn't an issue, but do you have a copy of Windows XP Pro or are you going to use a Linux distro? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Windows XP Home detects both the cores in a dual-core processor?

Just a thought...

[saphalline]

SP2 for all versions of the XP/2003 family supports dual-core CPU's. I believe XP Home still doesn't support multiple processors, but even that may have changed (or will change soon).

[Budfred]

I will go with the stock hsf unless the temps are a problem... Thanks for the feedback...

I got my stuff today and I hope to begin putting some of it together this weekend... I already have Arctic Silver from the last builds I did, but I still need to pick up at least one DVD burner... I just ordered WinXP through my work (about $74 after shipping and tax), but it will take a few weeks to get here... I may go with Linux just to see how it works and then do a dual boot later...

[jlreich]

I just ordered WinXP through my work (about $74 after shipping and tax), but it will take a few weeks to get here...
Wow that's a long time to wait. But it's a great price especially if it's XPpro. Have fun Budfred. I always enjoy putting a new machine together. :cool:

[beerbelly]

I'm sorry to jump this thread, but since you are a mod, budfred, I know you will put it in it's place. What should be loaded on a virgin machine for security? I'm also putting one together and don't want any garbage on it. We have all heard your "after it's too late" opinions, but I'd like to hear your "starting from scratch" ideas? I think this could be a good sticky.
Thanks.

[Budfred]

There are already a few stickies on that kind of thing, but I can tell you what I am going to do when I load WinXP...

I plan to download the latest Kerio and NOD32 versions... With NOD32 it will be the trial version since it can't be registered until I am online.... I will also get SpywareBlaster, FireFox, Thunderbird and HijackThis... All this loaded on a CD... After I get the build up and running with WinXP installed, I will use Black Viper's guide to shut down unneeded Services in Windows with Messenger on the top of that list... I will then load the security programs, get them installed and then go online to register and update them... At that point I am pretty well armored... I will download a number of other programs that I use on an as needed basis, but the ones mentioned are the core armor that I use... After I get most of my software installed, I usually use HijackThis to trim away more of the fat... I may have missed something, but those are most of the steps I will probably use...

[beerbelly]

Thanks, I've printed it and taken it to heart.

[Budfred]

Okay, I am back with a new question... I need to order another motherboard as noted in my thread about the disaster with the ASUS board... I am not likely to ever use the SLI qualities of a board, so is there another alternative that is a good option that doesn't use it?? In particular, I would looking at some Crossfire boards and want to know if they would be a good option....

Sapphire:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813154007

DFI:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813136165

I want to order tomorrow, so any ideas would help...

Edit: I just noticed neither has SATA II... I am assuming that is not good...

[hockey man]

Look for a nForce 4 Ultra, that would be my suggestion. Like this ABIT KN8 Ultra Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra ATX AMD Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127222) for under $100.