Confuzzled!

[Norkimo]

I recently had cable internet hooked up (lucky me, I'm loving the speed) I'm running through a simple Netgear 5 port hub. I started on my older computer because that's what I used for internet before. The newer one that I built was strictly for offline gaming. So the older computer worked great on the cable for about 9 or 10 hours. I downloaded a massive update for Norton Internet Security Suite, and suddenly it stopped working. Problem was, I fired up my newer computer and got nothing out of it. I had the ISP come out and get it figured out for the newer computer, but still nothing for the old. The newer one runs XP Home SP1. The older one runs a not updated version of Windows ME. The tech who came out said something about the IP stack being corrupted on the WinME computer, or ME not being able to run cable anyway since dial-up was the norm when ME came out. Still unable to get anything out of the ME computer, ipconfig shows a bunch of blank numbers or gets the automatically assigned IP, but wont get the IP it needs to use the modem.

Back to the newer computer. Thinking I needed the security updates in SP2, I downloaded it and did the ritual restart. Suddenly everthing was terribly slow. Pretty much unbearable considering this computer is an Athlon XP 2600 with a gig of ram and has always been blazingly fast. To top it all off, it no longer would access the network (or internet) after this update. I ended up using system restore to go back to before SP2. Still confused about it, but running Jetico Personal Firewall until I can get something else.

And now in a different direction. My father is on another computer downstairs. The point of cable was that we could all share a connection. I had my two computers on the LAN for over a year with no problems and figured that adding his wouldn't hurt. His is an Athlon 64 3500 running SP2. It refuses to get on the network with the "Limited or no connection" message, same as I got when I downloaded the SP2 update. Among other things, I've tried ipconfig /release and afterward ipconfig /renew and it tells me that the attempt has timed out. Getting nothing. I have a friend who is in college for hardware and networking coming over this weekend to take a look at it but when I explained it to him over the phone, he was telling me mostly the same stuff that I had already tried. Unfortunately I can't roll my dad's computer back to SP1 because it came with SP2 pre-loaded. I'm greatly confused.

If anyone can help, it would be greatly appreciated. I may take a little while to get back to it, but I'll try each day.

Thanks!

[PrntRhd]

Welcome to the PC Guide forums.

It helps if you can stay focused on one problem at a time and work through the problem until it is resolved. In this case let's pick either the older PC or the XP SP2 computer then shift to the other.

The tech who came out said something about the IP stack being corrupted on the WinME computer, or ME not being able to run cable anyway since dial-up was the norm when ME came out.
You may have a corrupted TCP/IP stack or a bad NIC card, but the idea you cannot run on cable with ME is flat wrong. Also you say it worked for 9 or 10 hours so that makes no sense.

So the older computer worked great on the cable for about 9 or 10 hours. I downloaded a massive update for Norton Internet Security Suite, and suddenly it stopped working.
NIS can be problematic, you should contact Symantec Help since you paid for it when you bought their application. If it blocked the connection in NIS or corrupted the TCP/IP stack, the problem is located there.



To top it all off, it no longer would access the network (or internet) after this update. I ended up using system restore to go back to before SP2.
Windows firewall may have turned itself on. Also be aware all malware must be removed before upgrading to SP2.

Unfortunately I can't roll my dad's computer back to SP1 because it came with SP2 pre-loaded.
SP2 does not prevent connection to a LAN, except for the Windows Firewall settings.

[juniper]

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=17d997d2-5034-4bbb-b74d-ad8430a1f7c8&DisplayLang=en here is how you fix the SP2 error. just download the fix upgrade to sp2 and then run this then go to windows update again and patch the rst of SP2. if this works we'll move to the next computer issue. Or thry the winsockXPfix.

for the ME PC try this if you like (winsock2fix.exe) http://www.bu.edu/pcsc/internetaccess/winsock2fix.html

[Norkimo]

Thanks for the quick replies and sorry for the extra confusion caused. I'll get back when something good happens.

Just a thought, I still have the old phone line connected to the ME computer and it will still dial in to the old ISP (haven't cancelled yet) but the browsers (Mozilla, Mozilla Firefox, or IE) won't go anywhere. I tried re-setting up both the Internet connection wizard and the LAN wizard, both with no results except that whichever browser I choose now auto dials when I start it, a feature which had disappeared some time ago. (I'll focus on the ME problem first, my friend is coming this weekend to look at the other computer)

[Norkimo]

New question re: Win ME comp. I did some massive digging through drawers of junk and found the original HP Win Me system restore disk. Would it be better to do a total reformat with this and try starting from scratch?

[classicsoftware]

If you want to start with the ME computer fine. Let's start there.

Please do the following:

CHECK DEVICE MANAGER: Right click on My Computer and choose Properties. Click on Device Manager. What shows up under Network Adapters, please list all you find. Are there any Yellow ! or Red X's?

If this is ok and you have a network card listed, please proceed to step two:

INVENTORY YOUR NETWORK: Rt click on My Network Places and choose properties. List everything in the window.

CHECK FOR AN IP ADDRESS:Click on Start and choose run. In the Window type WINIPFG and click ok

There should be a pull down menu, select the NIC from step one and please tell us what appears when you do.

[Erik]

The problem, or at least part of it, could be due to the fact that you are using a hub to setup the network instead of a router. Do you know if your ISP allows you to have multiple IP addresses, or just one? I know at least in my area with standard service extra IP addresses cost extra money.

Anyway if yous ISP is only supplying one IP, and you have three PCs trying to grab it, that would cause some problems. The best solution would be to replace that hub with a wired router. You can also try powering down the modem for like an hour or so to make it forget about whatever computer was last connected to it. SOmetimes the cable company will use that as a part of the authentication.

[classicsoftware]

If indeed you have a hub and NOT a router you cannot share this Internet Connection unless you either get a router or enable Internet Connection Sharing

[Norkimo]

The problem, or at least part of it, could be due to the fact that you are using a hub to setup the network instead of a router. Do you know if your ISP allows you to have multiple IP addresses, or just one? I know at least in my area with standard service extra IP addresses cost extra money.

Anyway if yous ISP is only supplying one IP, and you have three PCs trying to grab it, that would cause some problems. The best solution would be to replace that hub with a wired router. You can also try powering down the modem for like an hour or so to make it forget about whatever computer was last connected to it. SOmetimes the cable company will use that as a part of the authentication.


The funny thing is that we had a tech come out today and informed me that there is a difference between a hub and a router, the guy from my ISP who set me up told me that there wasn't and that my little hub would work fine! Now on a hub, we'll see if things straighten out for the other computers on the network.

[pangea33]

The funny thing is that we had a tech come out today and informed me that there is a difference between a hub and a router, the guy from my ISP who set me up told me that there wasn't and that my little hub would work fine!
I'm going on a hunch here, please let me know if it's off the mark. Whenever I referred to my cable broadband provider, I always called them the "cable company" and never my "ISP." If you're like me, the info from your support tech at the ISP was gathered while you were still using dialup, and Internet Connection Sharing. In this case, there wouldn't be any important limitations of a hub over a router, and the hub should indeed work just fine. I sincerely hope this is the case, because I wouldn't trust an ISP where someone really meant there is no difference between a hub and router.

You're dealing with the same sort of thing that all broadband users deal with. There are various, fairly complicated methods you could use involving multiple network cards, or you can go the easy way. You will save yourself endless headaches, by purchasing a NAT (firewall) router for about $50 or so. Linksys is my personal recommendation.

[Norkimo]

Thanks for your suggestions guys, I bought a Linksys ROUTER!!! and it works fantastically for the three XP PCs. All three work great. The tech that came out also suggested that the router provides a hardware firewall. I hope so, more protection is always good! As for the old internet situation, when I was on dial up, I had a splitter on the phone line at the wall to run my dad's computer downstairs and mine upstairs, just not able to do it at the same time. I never shared the internet via the hub, it was strictly for file transfer and to see if I could maintain a little network, which worked great at the time.

It is a cable internet connection and the tech who installed the modem didn't seem to know much about LAN connections. He suggested that my hub was a network, but I didn't get the impression that he knew much about computers outside of how to set up one connection on one computer. The tech did say that most of the connections he installs end up on multiple computers and that they (the provider) had no problem with it. I'm considering the XP computers fixed for now because they work fine with the internet now.

As for the internet settings on the ME computer, ipconfig/all and winipconfig (pretty much the same functionality, just simplified by a GUI) give me pretty much the same thing, lots of zeros. I've tried releasing and renewing and get nothing but an application time-out. (I'll get the details later for ya) I ran the Network setup wizard and as the wizard told me on the other computers, I used the WinXP install disk to set up the network on the ME computer but still get no connection. Fairly convinced that it was indeed NIS that messed it up, it never really installed right in the first place and since I was on dial-up, I never had the patience to download all the updates so it never did work right.

Thanks for taking your time to address my little problems. Up til now I had been able to figure out most all of my little problems just by trial and error (my gaming computer I built myself and it works great except for one problem that I will address later and in a different thread)

Thanks again!

[classicsoftware]

Now that you are on broadband connection, you will need a software firewall as well as a hardware firewall:

The three firewalls in order of preference (mine):


Sygate (http://www.simtel.com/product.download.mirrors.php?id=53687)
Kerio (http://www.kerio.com/kpf_download.html)
Zone Alarm (http://www.zonelabs.com/store/content/catalog/products/sku_list_za.jsp;jsessionid=BzJnZDxzyCUCcyZMB2t0Qco 5IgutuYlrOMI5snmy1ZptQ2vOr1l1!776180791!-1062696904!7551!7552!-2099742426!-1062696903!7551!7552)


In addition, you should be using the following software:


Web Browser: Firefox (http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/)
E-Mail Client:Thunderbird (http://www.mozilla.com/thunderbird/)
Spyware Preventer:SpywareBlaster (http://www.download.com/SpywareBlaster/3000-8022-10196637.html?part=dl-SpywareBl&subj=dl&tag=button)

[Norkimo]

Well, I was already on the broadband connection, through the hub, just the one computer though. As for the browser, I've been using Mozilla's browser for a long time now and sometime last fall switched to Firefox. I use Hotmail so I'm not really looking for an email client, and one of the first things I did after getting this PC online was to download Ad-Aware. If I could find the current version of Spybot Search and Destroy, I'd get it too because I had an old version on another computer and it would find things that Ad-Aware would miss (and vise versa). Another thing I did after getting this one online was to download a freeware firewall. Mine's a Jetico Personal Firewall (found it on MajorGeeks). It's been kind of a pain because I was used to the one in NIS operating in the background and not asking me to allow or block every time I load a page. If the Sygate or the other's do that, I've already been through it once, don't care to do it again. Mostly what I'm doing on this computer is playing games (the only online game right now is Guild Wars, otherwise, offline) and as soon as I get the ME computer working right, it will be my primary internet PC again.