Hardware Advice

[KingOfMetal]

Hey everyone, I am in need of a new desktop. However, I do not need a hard drive, cd-rom, floppy, ethernet card, sound card, or a video card (maybe) or any external devices such as monitor, modem, mouse/keyboard. So, Im basically looking to build my own with a new motherboard, processor, ram, possibly a video card (I have the same card that came with my Dimension 8100, but I rarely play any games and none are new) power supply/fans, and a case to fit it all in. Any suggestions?

[PrntRhd]

Need to know exactly what parts you have, and are these all from that Dell?

[KingOfMetal]

No, I have two burners that were purchased afterwards, as well as my hard drive. The rest (cards, motherboard, memory, etc.) are from the Dell.

[KingOfMetal]

I don't need an extremely high-end PC but I learned my lesson with Dell and would like to be able to upgrade with ease in the future.

[Erik]

Well what kind of drives do you already have? What kind of video card is it? What do you want to do with the system? What is wrong with the Dell machine that you are hoping to fix/improve by building a new machine? Other than allowing for future upgrades. What kind of budget do you have?

Generally for a typical home use PC I have been using Antec cases with the included power supplies. They might not be the very best, but the cases are very nice, and I have not had any power supply issues myself on any systems.

What about an operating system? Do you have one already, not what came with the Dell as it is probably a restore CD or won't install on a non Dell PC anyway?

[saphalline]

Antec recently screwed-up on a case (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=44070) for our eminent member Budfred, so they're on thin ice with me until I see differently. (I still can't believe they shipped a case without a case speaker!! :eek: )

But there are other good case manufacturers, like Cooler Master, ThermalTake, and Raidmax to name a few. Just remember that we always advise getting a separate PSU for any case you buy (a bundled PSU is usually a garbage PSU, IMO). Look around Newegg and see if there are any cases that you like. Cases are extremely sensitive to personal preference, so keep that in mind when you browse - and remember to hit us with any cases you have picked out so we can let you know how they will perform (cooling is most important for a good case).

As for the rest of the hardware, give us some more info. Budget and usage are primary for us. And the vid card that you have now. I'll be up-front with you about that - if it's AGP, it's gone. Upgradability these days means no AGP for a new system. That will just cut your new computer off at its knees if you ever feel like a better vid card in 2-3 years.

[KingOfMetal]

Well Im wanting to upgrade because the fan on this one just went out, so Im wanting to go ahead and do an overall while I can. My video card is a Nvidia GeForce 2 MX 400, I have a 80 gig hd, dvd burner, and a cd burner. I'd like to get XP, I have a few hundred I could spend. I dont need a media powerhouse or gaming PC, mostly just basic computing/media usage.

[KingOfMetal]

My system idea:

RAIDMAX Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811156043

Intel Celeron D 331
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819112206

Windows XP
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16837102059

512 RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145529

Can I use my previous video card? Any other problems with this list?

EDIT: And this motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145529

[KingOfMetal]

Link for motherboard, my mistake
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127204

[Erik]

saphalline,

I guess I missed that thread, rather disappointing. I have never had a problem with Antec cases or power supplies though. Reading that I will think twice about using them on any future builds though.

KingOfMetal,

You still haven't mentioned what kind of graphics card you currently have. It is more important to know if it is an AGP or PCI card than exactly what card it is at this point. That will determine what kind of motherboard to get, and what kind of upgrade paths it will leave you with in the future. If I had to guess I would say it is liekly an AGP card, in which case you would be best off buying a new PCI Express card, and compatible motherboard.

Also all of those drives will be PATA (IDE), which is fine as long as you make sure that whatever board you buy has enough IDE channels (you will need 2). Some of the newer boards give you only one IDE channel and expect you to be moving over to the newer, better, SATA standard. Using your old equipment over will be fine, as long as you choose carefully. Pick a motherboard that has 2 IDE channels and plenty of SATA support too. This will ensure room for future upgrades.

I would consider bumping up the RAM too, as going to 1GB won't cost that much more, but will defenitely be appreciated. Windows loves to use memroy, and the more you have the more responsive your system will be, to a point. For general use I think about 1GB is a pretty good spot to hit.

[Erik]

That RAM won't work with that motherboard, according to the specs listed it takes DDR, and you picked DDR2.

[KingOfMetal]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128294

How about that one then? And how do I tell the difference between AGP and PCI?

Thanks

[Erik]

Those are compatible. I am running that motherboard on my main rig, and have been happy with it. Plus it wil support all of your current IDE drives, and has plenty of expansion room for SATA in the future. Really consider going for a gig of RAM though, it will be a great improvement to overall performance.

The easiest way to tell the difference between AGP and PCI is to just look at them. AGP slots are offset a bit, and the uppermost slot, and usually brown. PCI slots are a bit smaller and usually white, and lower down on the board. If it is indeed an AGP card dump it and go with a more modern interface, that board will take an PCI-Express 16 video card. Or you could always use a PCI card for now, and move up to something more modern later on.

[KingOfMetal]

Okay its AGP so Im going to probably purchase this card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102626

So, all the above with this card. Is my case and the included power supply enough? I would rather not have to buy another PSU, if I could just get one with a quality case.

Thanks

[KingOfMetal]

That should be a good start, then I can add some ram in a few weeks.

[saphalline]

Ok, how about this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131545) mobo? The Asus P5LD2-VM is based on the i945G chipset, has 2 PATA channels (for up to 4 devices), 4 SATA 300 ports, DDR2 RAM - all the good stuff. The best part is that it has onboard video and a PCIe x16 slot, which lets you skip a new vid card now and then upgrade later. This mobo also supports the latest LGA 775 CPU's, so it's dual-core ready. When or if you decide to upgrade out of that Celeron D, you can just plunk in a Pentium D 900 series CPU and get a major upgrade! :D It is a micro-ATX mobo, so you don't quite get as many slots, but the 2 PCI and 1 PCIe x1 slot should provide enough upgrade potential for your needs.

By going with this mobo, you satisfy all of your basic needs now while still saving money and providing an excellent upgrade path for the future.

[KingOfMetal]

Thank you guys for all your help! So, here is my config:

Case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129162

Processor:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819112206

RAM:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145529

MoBo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131545

Hard drive:
I have a SeaGate 80 gb hard drive

CD-ROM:
DVD Burner

Is there any thing wrong with this setup? Am I missing anything?

[KingOfMetal]

Also, could anyone recommend a LCD monitor under 200? Thanks again! :D

[saphalline]

The Acer 1714A (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824009056) is a good one. I'm not a huge fan of silver bezels, but I wouldn't be ashamed to own one of these. Decent specs for the price, although the AL1711FB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824009062) is ultimately cheaper after rebate.

You can also check any rebate offers or weekly sales at your local computer shops, like Best Buy or whatever. I think Micro Center still has a good deal on a slightly older Acer model for around $150 after rebate.

[hockey man]

I have a ACER AL1715B and I am very happy with it.

[KingOfMetal]

Will my components work with either of these cases?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119072

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129162

If they both do, which would you recommend. Im leaning toward the Cooler Master right now, is 350W enough power?

[KingOfMetal]

On second thought, I believe the Antec would be a better buy. Are there any disadvantages to this style case? Can I set my monitor on top of it? Thanks so much for all your help! :D

EDIT:
I may get a new dvd burner and hard drive, any suggestions on these? I dont need a very large hard drive 80 gigs or so.

[saphalline]

A desktop case?? You want a desktop case? I wouldn't really suggest a desktop case unless you know a lot about PC cooling. I can see some issues with both cases in terms of potential CPU overheating, if not other components. Not only that, but you get less space inside a desktop case. You could put your monitor on top of one, though.

[KingOfMetal]

I dont know that much about cooling, I was just wanting to save space. So a tower is a better choice? Like this one for exampe:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119078

[KingOfMetal]

Any other good case manufacturers beside Antec, Thermaltake, Raidmax, or Cooler Master? Id like to see all my options. Thanks :)

[KingOfMetal]

Maybe this one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811182052

Im not sure which are even worth looking at. I'd like to get one with a power supply, or a cheaper case so that I can afford a power supply. I cant say it enough times that I would have been totally lost without all of your help here. Thanks everyone!

Or one like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129154

That one is beautiful and what Im looking for but its so expensive. And no PSU, Im not sure if my mobo would work either... I just don't know what to do! :confused:

[KingOfMetal]

Okay! I believe I have it. But first do regular ATX cases fit Micro ATX Mobos? I sure hope so. Okay first is this Cooler Master with PSU

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119078

Then the same one (I think) without PSU.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119047

Should I get them bundled together or buy a seperate PSU?

[beerbelly]

But first do regular ATX cases fit Micro ATX Mobos? I sure hope so.
Unless the info on the case mentions it, I wouldn't BET on it, but probably. The difference is just holes drilled in different places.
If you are going with a mid-tower, why stick with the micro-ATX MoBo?
The purpose of a micro-ATX MoBo is to save space. A mid-tower will have more than enough room for an ATX MoBo.

[jlreich]

Yes, in almost all cases if they say ATX they will fit smaller boards. Sometimes they go through the trouble of listing all the form factors, sometimes they just simply say ATX.

If you look at the picture of the inside of the case you can see as Beerbelly pointed out, there are many different holes to mount the mobo on. Those are for the different size boards.

[KingOfMetal]

Okay, so that case will work with my mobo. Now, would it be better to get the PSU bundled, or buy a seperate one? If so, which one would I need?

[KingOfMetal]

Please read my above post and reply! However, Id also like to show this. Here is my current list of parts

Processor:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819112206

RAM:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145529

MoBo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131545


Is this the best I can do in their general price range?

[beerbelly]

Something is hokey with your links.

[KingOfMetal]

Problem solved! :D

[saphalline]

If you are going with a mid-tower, why stick with the micro-ATX MoBo? The purpose of a micro-ATX MoBo is to save space.No...

In this case the purpose of going with that particular mobo was to get the right features for the right price. I picked out that mobo myself because I was looking for a mobo based on the i945G chipset with the requirements given by KingOfMetal. It just so happens that the only mobo on Newegg that fit those requirements is micro-ATX (actually all of the i945G mobo's are micro-ATX). We finally managed to pick the right mobo here! Don't start adding to the confusion!

Those cases you've picked out are decent enough. Certainly a lot better than those desktop cases! And yes, all ATX cases will fit a micro-ATX mobo just fine. In terms of the PSU, I've already addressed this. You want them separately because bundled PSU's are generally pieces of $hit! I wouldn't trust them with my graphing calculator, much less a new computer. Budget around $60-70 for the PSU. Probably something like this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817153026). That PSU will work in any of those cases you listed.

[KingOfMetal]

Is there a way to hook that mobo up to a TV? Im not sure what some of those inputs are on the back, but I dont think my s-video cord will work.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131545

[Erik]

You would need to get a video card that has S-video outputs. The video built onto that motherboard is only for a VGA monitor. I don't know of any motherboards with built in video that offer any option other than the standard VGA output.

[saphalline]

There are a few mobo's with built-in video that have S-Video-Out, but I can count them on one hand. :rolleyes: Yes, you'll need a dedicated vid card with some kind of TV-Out functionality in order to output your PC to a TV. The only other way to do that is to get an HDTV with digital inputs such as VGA and DVI.

[KingOfMetal]

Okay, first off I'd like to thank each and every one of you for helping me with my first PC build. It's easy to see that I would have made a lot of bad choices without you all. :rolleyes: So, before I place my order, here is my final list. Any changes or final suggestions would be appreciated. :D

Mobo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131545

Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819112206

Ram
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145526

Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119077

Modem
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16825120101

DVD Burner
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106256

LCD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824009056

PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817153026

Hard drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148107

[KingOfMetal]

Anyone? Maybe a better component for a little more? Or maybe something is incompatible? Any help would be greatly appreciated. :D

[jlreich]

Looks like your all set to me. :)

[hockey man]

Yep. . . looks good.

[saphalline]

Looks good to me! :cool:

[KingOfMetal]

Im re-thinking my LCD choice, how about this flat screen CRT?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824197001

[KingOfMetal]

Well, just ordered everything. Thanks guys! :D Im sure I can come here if I need any help.

[saphalline]

Im sure I can come here if I need any help.Of course!

[KingOfMetal]

My shipment came today!!! So I got everything, but have to run some errands first. So in 3 or 4 hours Ima start building. Could anyone provide some helpful links or advice where to start? I have basic knowledge of where everything goes but when it comes to connecting wires, etc I become slightly nervous. So, help would be appreciated! :D

[jlreich]

I start by unpacking everything and making sure I have everything I need.

Install standoffs in the case.
Install any case fans if needed.
Install CPU/HSF on mobo. Some like to put it in after the mobo is in the case.
Install 1 stick ram.
Install mobo into case.
Install video card.
Hook up KB and monitor.

Try the first boot, check temps to make sure HSF install went well. If successful I then install next stick of ram and boot.
After each successful boot I add HDD/s, then CD/DVD, floppy drive and any other components you might have.

Some at this point will do burn-ins to make sure all parts are in good order. Like running Memtest, HDD diagnostics etc..

That takes care of the hardware part.

Make sure I have a copy of the latest mobo and video drivers. Copy of my AV/FW.
Install windows.
Set virtual memory min/max to same size. Reboot.
Install mobo drivers, reboot.
Install video drivers, reboot.
Install AV/FW. Get online for the first time and update AV/FW.
Activate windows.
Go to windows/Microsoft update get latest patches etc..
Go into Administrative services to turn off unneeded services.
Install Spywareblaster, Spybot, Ad-Aware etc..

After that it's just personal tweaks, then on to installing programs.

I think that is everything. :)

Have fun and enjoy your new machine.

[KingOfMetal]

Thanks jlreich!! Im getting ready to get started but I had a quick question. Should I wait and get an ESP wristband? Im working on a wood table, wood floors, and I was wonderin if it'd be okay to just touch my case periodically?

[jlreich]

I have never used a strap myself. I always make sure I am careful to ground myself by touching a unpainted part the case before touching any components. Sometimes I will touch my wrist on the case while my hands are busy installing parts just to make sure. I have never had a problem with ESD.

Good luck. :)

[jlreich]

Have a look at this (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showpost.php?p=150191&postcount=11). The one in the middle is generally what is used these days. They screw into the case, then the mobo goes on top, then the screws go through the mobo into the standoffs. Take a close look at your mobo and see how many screw holes and where they line up to the mobo and only put standoffs where they are needed.

The usually come in the case hardware packet. I don't remember without looking through the thread from the beginning if you got a new case or not, but if you didn't you may need to stop in your local PC shop and pick some up for a couple of bucks if your case doesn't have any you can reuse.

EDIT - I guess you figured it out since it seems you deleted your post. :)

[KingOfMetal]

Yeah I got that all done, now I have all these cords from the front of my case, fan, usb, power, reset, etc. Any help with where they go? Im guessing the mobo but Im not sure where.

EDIT! I think I figured them out, most of them anyways :confused: I have one left named 1394, I also plugged in HD Legacy instead of AC 97' (I think it was) but Im about to boot it on. Any last minute things to do or check?

[KingOfMetal]

Okay turned it on, got power and that was it. I guess I'll install the hdd and try again. But tomorrow, cause I have work at 7 then class and its getting late. Thanks for your help everybody, have a great night! :)

[madad2005]

The cable labaled 1394 is your firewire cable. If your motherboard doesn't have a 1394 socket on it, just store the cable away for another day.

[KingOfMetal]

Okay, I boot it on and it comes to a setup screen (sometimes I dont make it that far) but it keeps turning itself off. Any suggestions?

[madad2005]

Can you tell us exactly what you have setup at the moment?

For example: cpu is on mobo with cooler installed, the correct psu cables are connected, the hard drive is connected, RAM installed, etc etc.

Do you get any beeps? How far in the POST do you get?

[KingOfMetal]

Cpus on mobo, both installed. My ram, psu and thats it. I get to different places in post sometimes just the screen where I press a key to enter setup sometimes a minute later. No beeps besides the one I get at the very beginning when it comes on.

[saphalline]

Sounds like you either didn't connect the square 4-pin +12V power cable, or the CPU HSF is installed incorrectly and the CPU is overheating causing a shutdown. Check these two first.

[KingOfMetal]

Probably the HSF... Cause I had some trouble attaching it securely, its strange cause it'll stay on for dif periods of time. Also, there is a 115, 230 switch on the psu. Whats this?

[KingOfMetal]

Maybe some cpu grease?

[jlreich]

If your in the USA you want 115 on the PSU.

Did you hook up the CPU fan to the motherboard? Is the fan working?

Try to get into the BIOS and check the temps on the CPU. They should be under "hardware health monitor" or similar. Sometimes it is in the main menu, sometimes it is a sub menu under "advanced BIOS features" or "advanced chipset features"

Any beeps or other sounds when it shuts down? Or LED POST codes if your mobo has that feature?

If you feel the HSF install didn't go well it may be time to pick up some Arctic Silver and reinstall the HSF. But lets try to narrow it down first.

[KingOfMetal]

I hooked up the fan and it is working, there are also no other beeps or noises when it shuts down. I didn't know what it was (at the time) but the cpu case had a sort of thermal sticker but I pulled most of it off... :o

Edit: There is a little bit of high pitched noise... barely audible though, can hear it when I press keys. Doubt that helps...

[jlreich]

I hooked up the fan and it is working, there are also no other beeps or noises when it shuts down. I didn't know what it was (at the time) but the cpu case had a sort of thermal sticker but I pulled most of it off... :o

Edit: There is a little bit of high pitched noise... barely audible though, can hear it when I press keys. Doubt that helps...
Oh yeah time to go out and get some Arctic silver. That was the thermal pad that is very much needed. And that siren is the overheating warning for the CPU.

Pick up some Arctic Silver at you local computer store, then stop by your local drug store and pick up some 91% pure alcohol and some lint free clothes (eye glass lens cleaner clothes will do fine) to clean the rest of the thermal pad off the CPU and HSF before you use the Arctic Silver.

Follow theses instructions carefully. http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm

[KingOfMetal]

So just to clarify... My CPU is inside the metal case. I put the artic silver ON the METAL casing? Then replace my fan?

[saphalline]

No no, the metal casing is part of the socket. The heatsink is the giant block of metal that has fins and a fan on the top. This is the CPU's heatsink & fan unit, also referred to as the CPU HSF. When you install an LGA 775 CPU, a metal bracket closes down over the CPU but leaves a small square open in the middle. This is where your CPU HSF contacts the CPU to cool it down.

The HSF unit has the thermal tape on it if you buy a retail boxed CPU. If you buy a third-part HSF unit, it comes with a tube of thermal grease to replace the stock thermal tape. The best thermal grease, however, is made by Arctic Silver.

[KingOfMetal]

So I just put it on the HSF? Or under, on the metal casing as well?

[saphalline]

Thermal grease in general goes on the CPU core and a small smear on the bottom of the heatsink where the CPU and HSF touch. Follow the link that jlreich gave for Arctic Silver's instructions. They show you pictures.

[jlreich]

Take the time to read through the instructions thoroughly before you attempt. That way you have a good sense of what you are doing before you start.

And remember to resist the urge to put more thermal grease on than is needed. Too much is as bad as not enough, and thermal grease oozing out onto the mobo is very bad.

And don't be too hard on yourself. We have all made similar mistakes the first time around, and once you get through this first time you will be a pro. ;)

[KingOfMetal]

Thanks for your help everybody... I would have been totally lost without the support from this board. YOU GUYS ROCK!!! :D And about the grease, I think I know where to put it. Same as the thermal one before it. On top of the metal thing my cpus locked in, and on the bottom of my fsb. So I ordered some from Newegg (I need a break anyways, lol :rolleyes: ) so I'll get that in soon and I should be about done. I have everything installed, not plugged up but installed, I was extremely discouraged before, but now Im a little more confident and feeling better about my purchase. Thanks again! :D

[jlreich]

The first build is the hardest. It's like you first kid. You are all worried about this and that, then when you have your second you don't even think about it. Kids head all flopping around while your holding it with one arm swinging it around while your talking on the phone to your friend and cooking dinner. :p

[KingOfMetal]

That's hilarious... Wait, you're not a parent are you? :eek: ;)

[KingOfMetal]

Quick question... My stuff is coming in tomorrow (I hope I have time for it) and I was wondering if 70% alcohol would be okay. I noticed the 91% but I wasn't sure if less was okay or not. Thanks!

[saphalline]

70% sometimes works in a pinch, but I've done enough of them to notice a difference. It's a hassle to get more, but at least the bottles aren't that expensive. Just go out and get the 91% stuff. For your first time, it's best not to work with inferior tools.

[jlreich]

70% can leave a residue that can get in the way of thermal transfer. That's why the 91%. Technically they actually recommend 99% but that's not so easy to come by so 91% will do.

[KingOfMetal]

Alright, I added a drop to the bottom of my heatsink and one on top of my cpu casing. My cpu is running around 39 - 44 C. Is that okay?

[jlreich]

Yeah that's not bad at all. Is that under load, at idle or in the BIOS? Just curious. Either way it's acceptable for a Prescott. The temp will probably drop a little after some good use and the thermal grease sets in.

Keep an eye on it for awhile to make sure it stays stable. Particularly under load.

[KingOfMetal]

Idle, under the BIOS... Which is about as far as I can get. :confused: If I exit the BIOS it just sits there. Any ideas?

[jlreich]

Do you have an operating system installed? The machine can't do much without one :p

Seriously, at what stage are you at? Have all the hardware installed and ready to go? CD/DVD drives, HDD etc?

[KingOfMetal]

No OS, thought that came later. For some reason my DVD drive wont open and the light stays on.

[jlreich]

Is the DVD drive jumpered correctly? Try reseating the cables both on the drive and the mobo.

[KingOfMetal]

I tried it on slave, master and CS. The busy light just stays on and wont open. Its my Primary IDE device. My hard drive is SATA. Im lost.

[jlreich]

Try it set as master on the secondary IDE. Some mobo's don't like a CD/DVD drive on the primary IDE.

[saphalline]

If the IDE cable is non-keyed, try twisting it at one end or the other. It could just be an upside-down cable. That's what happens to floppy drives anyway. Also, check your power cables and make sure you don't have all your drives powered by one lead cable from your PSU.

[KingOfMetal]

I installed a different cd drive and it worked fine. Well, it opened closed, etc. My hd keeps showing up as third master. That right? I put it in the 3 other slots and figured them out to be third/fourth master slave. My mobo doesnt like a cd drive in the primary ide so its secondary, but its showing up during the ide scan. Anyways, Im sending the other drive back to Newegg. :(

[jlreich]

My hd keeps showing up as third master. That right?
Yes since the HDD is SATA it comes after the IDE channels in BIOS. First the primary IDE master, then the primary slave, then the secondary master and slave, then the SATA channels. It's just the way the BIOS has it set up.

Bummer about the DVD drive being bad, but it happens sometimes. Seems like it has been happening a lot lately though. Maybe it's just the fact that more and more people are starting to build their own these days.

At least you know Newegg will give you a prompt replacement without hassles. And you have learned to build and troubleshoot all at the same time. Yes sir, a first build that has problems will put hair on your chest and gray on your head all at the same time. :p :D

Have you gotten around to installing the OS yet? Don't forget to read the mobo manual about installing windows on an SATA drive. ;)