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mjc
12-28-2000, 09:55 AM
I just read and interesting review of the new Compaq Presario 7000 (MaximumPC Jan 01). It seems that Compaq is beginning to abandon its propensity for proprietary machines (at least in the new P4 models) so maybe there is hope that this "new trend" will continue and spill over into other companies and machines.

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mjc
On the fourth day of Christams...

Paleo Pete
12-29-2000, 06:56 AM
Well, I guess it must be in the printed edition, since I can't find anything on their website, unless I just don't know where to look...good possibility http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Seems hard to believe the originator of proprietary systems is planning to give it up. OK, actually I can't say that, IBM was the one that originated the proprietary computer with the PS/1-PS/2 systems. I think Compaq was the first to follow suit, they have been building proprietary systems for ages. I picked up a Deskpro 386 just to take a look, and it has a power supply with plugs I've never seen anywhere else...

I hope it catches on, sure would be nice to see some non-proprietary or at least less-proprietary machines out there in the future.

I bet they never give up the proprietary Operating System though, or the practice of storing part of the BIOS on the hard drive...



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mjc
12-29-2000, 01:33 PM
Yeah it's the Jan 01 print edition and it seems that Compaq realized that they may just be missing a large segment of the PC market (gamers) since the system in question seems to be geared toward game or graphic intensive work.

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mjc
On the fifth day of Christmas...

Paleo Pete
12-30-2000, 07:50 AM
Thought it must have been the print edition, no mention of it on their website that I could find.

It's a good thing they might be trying to move away from their proprietary systems, most of the off-the-shelf computers available today are the same, and generally very limited in the upgrade department.

I wonder if the overall quality will improve as well, or if they'll still be building basically "disposable" computers same as they and Packard Bell have done for the past 10 years or so...

One note though, since I'm slamming PB's here...I have one - Legend100 CD that's a P-60 - running Win3.11, and it's been very good so far. I was completely amazed, knowing their reputation and how many PB owners I've known who had nonstop trouble with them. It's been running great for a year now, after replacing the fried hard drive, has never crashed once, no GPF's or anything, only problem I've ever had was an out of memory error message when trying to create an icon for a shareware FreeCell game fro my mmother to play while she's here.

And it won't use the Intel Overdrive CPU I have for it, bye bye 120MHz... http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/frown.gif

So not all PB's are created equal I guess, this one's been a creampuff...

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My hairdresser charges me a finder's fee!!

Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

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sea69
12-31-2000, 12:10 AM
I have the new 7000series Compaq Presario, and its very nice..lots of room to grow http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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lol...so I cant spell...

xor_chad
12-31-2000, 07:27 PM
Yo
I personally dont see what difference it will make.
When you know enough about pc's that you know exactly what you want then i dont see why you would be worried about if anyone mass produced it or not.

I have not read the article but i work as a Compaq, HP, IBM ... certified tech and i know one thing has not changed: If you open the machine and add/remove/change something ... your warranty is VOID.

Cool - they make a gamer pc now. When you want to upgrade i hope you still have lots of that cash to buy your highly marked up Compaq parts.

Compaq and the likes are not still in the business because they are the best, its because they sell a lot for a lot. Laters...

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Chad Wilson
C++/ASM Programmer
PC Support Technician

Paleo Pete
01-01-2001, 06:42 AM
Very good point chad, Compaq parts do tend to hit the pocketbook rather hard...and the point about the manufacturing philosophy of most of the larger companies as well...minimum computer for maximum bucks.

I'll keep building my own, thanks http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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My hairdresser charges me a finder's fee!!

Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

sea69
01-01-2001, 07:18 AM
hmmmmmm Hey Chad !!

If I plugged in another 128 clip of RAM, and I had a prob (and had to send it back under warranty) and took it out again, could they tell ??


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"re-inventing the hammer.. why I oughtta..."

[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 01-01-2001).]

xor_chad
01-01-2001, 12:45 PM
Hi Sea
If that was a real question then the answer depends on the system.
HP and Compaq have gone as far as to place detection devices on the case.
One such device is simply a button that remains pressed down as long as the case is on. Once removed a time stamp is saved to some IC.

Of course they all have the sticker that says "warranty void if seal is broken or removed".

Yes there are ways around it but imagine you are having problems with your new video card that you slapped in. Are you going to call Compaq tech support?

Point is most ppl buy these Brand name pc's for their warranty - number one reason you dont see custom built pc's at large corps.
The parts are same as if not inferior to retail parts, so if you dont want the warranty then you are throwing away money.
If reliability were an issue with these pc's then i wouldnt have a job right now! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

By the way you might be thinking "i will just send the defective part back to the manufacturer. wrong OEM parts are covered ONLY by the reseller.
With a custom built pc. If the cpu goes bad, ship it back. LAters...

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Chad Wilson
C++/ASM Programmer
PC Support Technician

sea69
01-01-2001, 01:06 PM
Thanks Chad

Yes, it was a "Real" question.... thanks http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

Mine is a new Compaq 7000-(T)bird 800Mhz, 128ram- was thinking about adding another 128 ram. I have not opened thie case on this pc yet, it is under warranty for 3 years. I have found compaq tech support friendly and helpful to an extent. If u get to a part they dont know or have a 'script' for they generally 'accidentally dissconnect u http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/mad.gif lol

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"re-inventing the hammer.. why I oughtta..."

[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 01-01-2001).]

xor_chad
01-01-2001, 01:34 PM
Hey sea
Is it one of those:

techie: "Hold on while i put you on hold.

*click*

(time passes)

*do do dee*

8-bit 8KHz Operator Voice: "If you would like to make a call please hang up and try again"

(repeat 100x)

Then you call back and get them AGAIN!
Gotta love it... no..wait...you dont! Laters...

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Chad Wilson
C++/ASM Programmer
PC Support Technician

[This message has been edited by xor_chad (edited 01-01-2001).]

sea69
01-01-2001, 01:40 PM
http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif hehehe u know it http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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"re-inventing the hammer.. why I oughtta..."

Paleo Pete
01-02-2001, 04:16 AM
Guess they've changed their tactics...when I called Compaq their first response was "It's a software problem." Never mind the fact that I am an experienced tech, and KNEW the CD ROM was bad, it refused to open and constantly opened in the middle of installations, audio CD's etc, never mind that the monitor had a 3/4" black strip all the way around, "it's a software problem." When I refused to accept that one, they said "Reinstall!" Yeah, right...been there, done that.."do it again..." 3 reinstalls later and the same problems are STILL there, they persisted in claiming it was a software problem...Ahem...Excuse me, but I think we have ruled that out...Compaq: It's a software problem, you didn't run the restore disk right" Me: I did it over the phone with YOU!... TWICE!! (and once on my own.)

So they eventually transferred me to the department manager, I got him so angry refusing to accept his "software problem" idea and demanding they send out a tech, he hung up on me! I even read the guy the warranty, which states that they will send a technician to your house to fix the computer if anything goes wrong...He kept insisting that meant after they proved by phone it was not software related. I kept insisting that I couldn't find any reference to that anywhere in the warranty...

If I worked for a shop or tech support company and hung up on a user, as well as argued with one and let him or her know I was angry, I would be fired 10 minutes ago! What a jerk!

We never did get the CD ROM fixed, my sister eventually bought another one and called me for installation instructions, they did finally replace the monitor, (with the wrong one) after troubleshooting it a third time, since none of the techs had documented the previous troubleshooting efforts, or the CD ROM problem.

All this took about 8 calls to tech support. I must note though, this was GTE tech support, who covers Compaq's extended warranty, not Compaq themselves. Compaq may be slightly better, who knows...I don't want to find out...

So now you know why I have a crummy attitude toward Compaq and proprietary systems in general.

I'll build my own, thank you, and my sister is buying components now. Guess who builds her next one?

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My hairdresser charges me a finder's fee!!

Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

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Rick
01-02-2001, 07:58 AM
When did Compaq start making their systems Proprietary?
If I recall correctly My first encounter was with Compaq Dos version 3.0

It's wasn't bad enough their hardware and Bios/Setup programs were proprietary .
But the O/S was also. Including some strange drivers for the simplest of hardware.
Add to that the lack of Bios/setup updates to support the new hardware that was available at the time of manufacture .
But not included in the system.
And they were/are out dated the moment you remove them from the Box.

Many of the PB's were reliable . Until you added the first piece of non PB software.

sea69
01-02-2001, 08:53 AM
WoW Pete !!

I'd have been pissed as well ......
Also, I just now happened to notice that I have a 1/2" blank on each side of my monitor, and 1/4" top and bottom.!!!
It is not a Compaq monitor. (NEC Multisynch 19') purchased @ the same time as this pc which is also included in the 3 year warranty.


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"re-inventing the hammer.. why I oughtta..."

[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 01-02-2001).]

hiredgoonz
01-02-2001, 09:37 AM
Compaq tech support certainly leaves alot to be desired...I have yet to have them correctly answer a question and have actually been given incorrect information more than once...the proprietary design is not just a problem with compaq though, on most budget systems from any manufacturer you're gonna get what you pay for and have little room to expand your system...

And as far as voiding your warranty by opening the case...I don't know about that...I know people who have made kinda major upgrades and still had them warranty serviced...hell, my first system was a gateway and tech support told me to open the case and check some stuff one time...

sea69
01-02-2001, 09:47 AM
oh.. I dont know about others.. however I have all kinds of 'room to expand' this system :
My chip is Ath 751(T), @ 800Mhz(can be upped to over 1G, 3 mem banks. each can hold 512 RAM (Sdram) not DDR ready http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/frown.gif

Front side bus= 200 not 100 or 133.......

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"re-inventing the hammer.. why I oughtta..."

Paleo Pete
01-03-2001, 06:56 AM
hiredgoonz: True, Compaq are not by a long shot the only company building proprietary systems, several others do as well, but Compaq is the company referred to in the original post, so that's the reason most of this topic is centered around Compaq issues.

Many also have a metallic tape on a corner of the case which, if removed, voids the warranty, unless you have opened the case under instruction from the company's tech support. When they advise you to do this they are "required to" (yeah right...) note it in their documentation concerning your call. As you can see from my previous post, they don't always document their calls very well.

sea69: Boot the computer into DOS. If the screen has the blank strip in DOS as well, it's the monitor, or maybe settings on the monitor. Look for knobs or buttons on front of the monitor to resize the screen. It's harder to tell in DOS if you have a blank strip, but if you're familiar with DOS it should be noticable.

If the screen is the proper size in DOS, it's either drivers or settings in software. DOS ignores any settings made in Windows, or the Windows monitor adjustments if present.

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My hairdresser charges me a finder's fee!!

Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

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Ghel
01-04-2001, 09:51 AM
If you've had your system for a while, and wish to upgrade, I wouldn't be too worried about opening the case and "invalidating" the warranty. Standard warranties for just about any system only protect against manufacturer defects. For the most part they do not cover software, OS, environmental, or problems caused by the user. Statistically, if you bought a system with a defect, it should show up early on. This is especially true if you make it a point to let your computer run for several days after purchase and make sure to test all the drives etc. If something is defective, it will usually fry (or get really quirky) fairly quickly. If the third party product doesn't work correctly, those pieces are covered by the third party manufacturer. The only thing I would be careful of is to make sure that the system works properly for a time before playing inside the case.
Of course, if you've spent extra money on a warranty extension/upgrade, then I would be careful about playing around inside the box.

mjc
01-04-2001, 12:31 PM
Gee, all I did was read an article now we've got a full scale discussion on warranties and Compaq tech support horror stories. I still think its interesting to note that one of the leaders in the "proprietary" movement is now offering a machine that isn't.

How's this for a "tech support" story?
My sister and her husband bought a new Compaq two weeks later the mobo fried. After many attempts (a month and a half) at fixing it the service tech finally replaced everything except the HD. The machine was fine for a while then scandisk started coming on every startup. Tech support then ran her husband through a "fix" -- turn off scandisk! Then soon enough it completely crashed and tech support told them REINSTALL (surprise). Well, the saga continues....

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mjc
On the eleventh day of Christmas...

[This message has been edited by mjc (edited 01-04-2001).]

xor_chad
01-04-2001, 06:33 PM
Lo
Something interesting to add.
MJC talks about replacing everything but the hard drive. I dont know about normal home users, but EVERY part that is replaced for when I do Compaq service calls is a refurb.

You send WD a bad HDD from 3 yrs ago and you get a brand spanking new HD from them.

One more reason i avoid assembly line pcs.
Laters...

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Chad Wilson
C++/ASM Programmer
PC Support Technician

Paleo Pete
01-05-2001, 03:33 AM
http://www.zing.com/picture/pe13d265843563aac43950aff8455a837/ff70ffdf.gif.orig.gif

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My hairdresser charges me a finder's fee!!

Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

sea69
01-10-2001, 08:41 AM
Chad.. who/what is "WD" ??

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"re-inventing the hammer.. why I oughtta..."

sea69
01-10-2001, 09:01 AM
Oh and BTW..........

"Again with the Compaq's".....

Had finally gotten this Compaq pc: 7AP140- Ath-(T-Bird) @ 800Mhz 751chipset, 128 sdram, win98se- 'tweaked' to where I was happy w/ it. So I decided to use the "System Save" feature to back up the settings I currently have achieved. In case of a monumental crash.. this is supposed to be the thing to save the system="System Save"??

Be VERY Carefull with this System Save thing !!!!!!!!!!

Once it is started you can do NOTHING until it correctly completes. You have NO control over anything, and if it gets an error during the process u r (S.O.L) s**t out of luck... it took me most of the day yesterday to fix the things that this program messed up !!!!

Needless to say I wont be backing my pc up this way again !!! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/mad.gif

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"re-inventing the hammer.. why I oughtta..."

[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 01-10-2001).]

LeeV
01-10-2001, 11:32 AM
Sean,

I believe Chad is refering to Western Digital, a major supplier of hard drives. Is System Save a Compac utility, and what kinds of terrible things did it do to you?


Lee V

sea69
01-10-2001, 11:50 AM
thanks LeeV

Yes it is a Compaq pre-installed program called "System Save"

The 1st time I ran itinitially it took like 30 minutes to get to an error. It was an error in "copying an image file".. and there was an "OK" button u had no choice but to press( if u dont it just sits there indefinetely http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/mad.gif
So I had to force boot, and it wouldnt do anything else until it completed (to its own satisfaction) there STILL was this "error"

Then, immediately after I finally got it to boot all the way up and load windows (98se) it crashed/froze 4X http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/mad.gif (which it never does anymore...)

There also seemed to be some problem (new) w/ my connection speed(adsl) and I had to reconfig all of my settings (mtu,ttl,) and 'recieve buffer size' were all out of wack....

**note** system save is also a partition and is called "D" drive

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"re-inventing the hammer.. why I oughtta..."



[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 01-10-2001).]

bassvax
01-13-2001, 12:26 AM
I know this thread is long, but I have to mention this humorous observation. I went to a local PC shop here the other day to buy my new IBM Deskstar 75 GXP 7200rpm 46.1GB HD (OK strutting a little)...anyways I looked on the counter where they list their charges for service etc. I saw a note that said "There will be an extra $25 for servicing all HP and Compaq computers due to them being finnicky.". I thought this was hilarious and indicative of problem with these type systems. I have always been a big fan of HP I use their calculators, Gas Chromotography/Mass Spectrophotometry equipment and of course their printers...I have to draw the line on their pc's though. One more observation while we're on the subject...I bought this new HD from them (sealed...appearing to be a wholesale purchase) and that is all I got. I asked for any software, 80-wire cable or instructions and they said there was none...no box either. This is where I assume they buy differently than us on the street. They also overcharged me by about $20 or so. It was not a real problem since I don't plan on using their software (which I could download) but I had to download the instructions and print all 72 pages. I could've gotten by without them also, but I'm kinda a*al retentive in that area. It may be cheaper to buy online or at a retail store after all. I did get the 3yr warranty though.

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Jerry