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View Full Version : My first post, and it's a teaser - Keyboard and BIOS problem!


mandelbrot
03-09-2006, 10:08 AM
Dear All,


As this is my first post, I'd like to present you all with a teaser. I am completely new to most of the hardware side of the game - I can plug memory in, install hard-drives and all the basic stuff, but have very little knowledge of the "bigger picture".

I bought a PC from a friend who tends to build his own machines. This was an AMD (Thoroughbred) 2600+ running at 2083MHz. Also installed is a Radeon 9700 (dual), and the usual additions that come in every computer system, including HDD, DVDRW etc.

At first, this PC worked famously well, though the motherboard (I believe) is running at 133MHz. A couple of months or so into its use, the system reset itself while I was playing a game (could well be something to do with the 9700 sucking up the voltage, but I wasn't sure). The other problem was that on occassion the PC would not start-up properly - it would simply hang with no beeps - suggesting PSU or motherboard problem. I checked the PSU, and it's 400W, so I suspect that rules the PSU out.

At first, suspecting the CPU of not providing enough power, I disconnected various devices to see if this made any difference, but it didn't seem to. I did disconnect the floppy drive, and this seemed to help (strangely). A little while after, however, the problems came back.

These symptoms continued to happen intermitently until I grew completely hacked off with it and opened the case... Big mistake! The first thing I checked were the stats produced by the BIOS. I don't know how odd this is, but my BIOS has several voltages listed, some within what it calls the VCORE and others elsewhere. The CPU ran, surprisingly at 1.66 continually without fluctuation. Others, however, ran at up to .2 volts less than it should (for instance, one of the readings should have been 3.3, but was actually fluctuating between 3.1 and 3.28). I don't know how significant this is to the problem, but percentagewise that is quite large.

I also checked some of the settings in the BIOS, resetting them if they didn't work. This is where something else happened that I find rather strange - the keyboard would intermitently not work when the BIOS was activated. This continued to get worse, until now I cannot access my BIOS at all (or at least I can access it, but the keyboard doesn't work!). The keyboard works fine outside of the BIOS - I can press DEL, start windows etc - keyboard and mouse work fine! As soon as I start the BIOS the keyboard dies - no lights, no buttons work (usual Numlock test to see if the light comes on etc) - NOTHING!

I pulled the jumpers to reset the BIOS, and it's all still the same (barring the fact that the defaults have been reset).

If anyone can point me in the right direction, I would really appreciate it.


Many thanks in advance,
Paul.

ski
03-09-2006, 11:31 AM
The restarting problem, and the fluctuating voltages indicate that the PS may be bad.
Either test it as described in the following link, or swap it out:
http://www.ochardware.com/articles/psuvolt/psuvolt2.html

jcnoernberg
03-09-2006, 11:32 AM
I checked the PSU, and it's 400W, so I suspect that rules the PSU out.

Not quite. Is it a quality PSU or some cheapy that maybe came with a case. This figure is probably the most overrated of any computer spec.

So, what's the brand/model?

mandelbrot
03-09-2006, 12:03 PM
Ok - thanks for that guys.

JC - The only thing that seems a little odd, here, though is (correct me if I'm wrong) the readings I found in the BIOS come in via checks on the motherboard. Is there more than one supply to the motherboard? If there is, then that would seem to explain the problem; but if there isn't, and the VCORE voltage reading remains constant at 1.66 (never fluctuating at all) then wouldn't that suggest that the PSU is ok? :shrug:

Ski - I'll take a look at that tonight, looks too technical at the moment - I'll probably need beer! If it proves to be the problem then I'll have a beer for you too!! ;)

The other major issue I have at the moment, though, is the keyboard - can either of you possibly identify what's wrong, here? It is a PS2 style connection, not USB...

Thanks again,
Paul.

mandelbrot
03-09-2006, 12:06 PM
Hi guys,

Forgive me for being a complete numptie - yes of course the motherboard has multiple inputs from the PSU. I'll check it out tonight, like I say, and see what I get back from it.

Paul.

mondsi
03-10-2006, 02:26 PM
make sure that when you're drinking beer, avoid dropping small amount of beer inside your system or else you'll get screw! :D

mandelbrot
03-13-2006, 06:04 AM
Hi All,


I checked out the power supply as directed, but found very little - everything was within acceptable tolerances (±5%), even from the molex plugs. I didn't find any fluctuation, on the voltage, either - everything seemed to sit at a stable level.

I did decide to change a couple of things, though. Originally, a Fan-mate was connected to my CPU fan (Zalman), and my harddrive ran through the same power cable as my Radeon Atlantis. I've put separate cables to the harddrive and Atlantis, and removed the fan mate to get the juice flowing directly to the CPU fan. I've reset the BIOS, replaced the keyboard, reseated the Atlantis and memory, and changed a couple of settings in the BIOS (from what they were before reseting it).

It seems to work fine, now, so I'll try running it a little to see what I get, and keep you posted as to the results.

Many thanks for your help everyone...
Paul.

(PS: Didn't spill any beer, as I opted for whiskey, and had one for you, too, Ski!! ;))

ski
03-13-2006, 12:38 PM
You're welcome.
Hopefully, you've solved the problem.

mandelbrot
03-13-2006, 12:44 PM
We'll see! I had to rebuild the drive from a PQI, and XP found a load of checksum problems and missing files on one of my drives (obviously from crashes before my rebuild). But, fingers crossed, that's it!

:)

Whyzman
03-13-2006, 12:56 PM
You might want to run the harddrive diagnostics on your harddrive just to make sure it's not going south... These can be downloaded form your harddrive manufacturer's website.

mandelbrot
03-13-2006, 01:10 PM
Thanks Whyzman - I'll give that a go. I'm the unfortunate owner of an 80GB Maxtor drive... ;) Cheap and nasty, but fills the gap at the moment!

One thing that I suspect is that, while I've been playing high-end games on the PC, the load imparted by the card has been slightly too much when passing the harddrive. I don't know if that's possible, but if it is, then I think this may have caused the problem. The other more obvious problem is that the PSU just isn't powerful enough - I'll just try it out and see if it copes.


Thanks again, everyone.


Paul.

rond36
03-13-2006, 06:15 PM
What brand is the PSU?

mandelbrot
03-14-2006, 04:09 AM
The PSU is a 400w Antec. It's been fairly reliable.

mandelbrot
03-17-2006, 05:52 AM
Right - I've been running the system for a few days, now, and have finally managed to get it fully operational.

Some of the Auto settings in the BIOS have been "tuned" - I found the PC2700 memory was running at 166MHz, but doesn't seem to want to exceed 222MHz, bit odd as it's designed to run at 333!! I've been watching the BIOS temperatures and voltages, also, and they seem to be running adequately, now only varying slightly beneath the 3.33 and 5 volt ratings (within ±5%)...

I did find that Partition Magic seemed to have done some damage to my drive, so I've installed XP Pro and used the partitioning and disk utilities with that... There are still some funnies going on with the OS, but I daresay that I'll have these ironed out shortly, even if it means a complete rebuild.

But for now, I'll just cross my fingers! ;)

I'd just like to thank-you all again,


Paul.

rond36
03-17-2006, 08:13 AM
Some of the Auto settings in the BIOS have been "tuned" - I found the PC2700 memory was running at 166MHz, but doesn't seem to want to exceed 222MHz, bit odd as it's designed to run at 333!!

166MHz or 167MHz is the correct frequency for PC2700. The frequency in the BIOS is before the data rate is doubled 166MHz X 2 = 332MHz DDR. If you change that setting to a higher freq you will be overclocking your RAM! Setting it at 222MHz you will be running your 333MHz RAM at 444MHz

mandelbrot
03-17-2006, 08:18 AM
Oh! Think I'll turn it back down, then! LOL! When the PC boots up, it displays a message telling me that the RAM is running at 166. There is setting in the BIOS asking me what multiplier I want to apply to this , for which I've applied a value of 133%. It seemed fairly happy, but I think I'll reapply the auto - don't want to damage the memory. Think I will buy somemore, though, and get something better.

Thanks, Rond.


Paul.

mandelbrot
04-14-2006, 08:46 AM
Hi Everyone,


Just a quick note to keep you all up to date...

After checking out the PSU, cleaning and reseating various pieces of hardware, including fans, memory and power couplings, my PC has been running fine for the last month.

One thing that does seem to have helped quite a bit, is the removal of a 'Fan Mate' from the CPU fan. The system is far cooler, now (even though the fan was turned to maximum, anyway!), and I don't seem to get any power hiccups...

Thanks again, everyone.


Paul.

Whyzman
04-14-2006, 10:19 AM
Hmmm...many motherboards have an RPM sensor to protect the CPU from damage if the heatsink fan is either not spinning up or is spinning too slowly. Interesting that things are better without the rheostat...