Power Supply Wattage, Amps, and Motherboard

[burnselk]

My old HP model 7955, 1.5GHz, has a mere 200 watt power supply. I'm getting into video capturing and have started having reboot problems well into the capture process. I was told my problem may be heat related (cpu or ?). Keep in mind, I'm a novice and not a gamer (nothing against you guys). I'm getting into digitizing analog vhs and 8mm tapes and burning the edited product to dvd.....and I need help....and lots of it.

I've looked at several video cards (to upgrade my nVIDIA RIVA TNT2 (mere 32MB card) because my computer indicated after the second reboot (via a dialog box) that my videocard driver needs to updated). But I was thinking about going with a 128MB card instead. But, here's the problem. Most all new video cards I've looked at require a minimum of 250 watt power supply (for instance the eVGA eforce FX5500 128MB or 256MB does).

Here are my questions: Can I run a video card that requires 250 watts on my 200 watt power supply without problem? Could this be my reboot problem? Is it difficult to swap out a power supply? Do I have to be concerned about anything in the power supply spec's besides wattage, like voltage and amps? Does my computer's motherboard (ASUS P4B-LA but I'm told it's really P4B-LU???) require a specific power supply with specific voltages and amperage? I need help here to decide what I need to do and why I need to do it.

I hope this makes sense. If not, please query me about anything you need in order to help me. I want to learn so I will be able to capture, store on hd, edit, and burn old tapes to dvd. I'm using "ADS Pyro A/V Link" with "Adobe Premiere Elements" to do this. I just bought it and am still learning! Adobe is tough to learn! The hardware is straight forward and easy.

Here's what happens when I use what my "lil ole" HP as it was shipped (no I upgraded the RAM to 512MB and added the 250GB HD....that's it): While I'm capturing video, after about 45 minutes (this time is likely to be different each time I capture) my computer reboots and I lose all of the captured video (it's still on my HD but it's corrupt and useable.....(won't open), so I have to rerun it again). I lost 9GB of video (45 minutes worth) in my first long capture (short captures didn't cause this reboot problem). I'm capturing video to a nearly empty new 250GB 7200 rpm, 8MB cashe WD HD. Keep in mind, I've only captured two video to hd (one 30 minute and 45 minute)....the shorter one didn't cause the reboot....only the 45 minute one.

Help please....and thanks.....sorry this is so long....but to me, it's worth the effort if I want good advice.

[jcnoernberg]

Most people here wouldn't recommend a PSU any less than TWICE the wattage you have! So, I would definately look into upgrading. If you don't think temperature is a problem, the the PSU is probably it

PSU's are pretty universal. The connector itself should have 20 or 24 pins. Simply detach it from the motherboard and count the pins. Other than that, go for a RESPECTABLE name like antec, and go for maybe 350+ watts. Amperage is irrelavant to you here.

Sometimes companies like HP will use a weird sized PSU that you can only buy though them (clever huh?). If you could measure the dimensions and post them, we may be able to help.

That being said, I do have computers with irregular power supplies. I just routed the cables through the opening and let the PSU sit behind the tower. It don't look pretty, but hey it didn't cost me a dime...

[saphalline]

Sounds like it could be a heat problem! Although I'm sure a better PSU couldn't hurt.

To test if your current problem is overheating (most likely the CPU since video editing is incredibly CPU-intensive) just open the case and set a normal house fan to blow into your computer. If it makes it past the 45 minute barrier without rebooting, the problem is overheating.

In order to install a better vid card, yes, you will need a new PSU. The one in that HP is probably ATX or microATX, depending on the size of the tower. Just give us the dimensions and we can tell you which one it is. Both are standard sizes, but ATX PSU's are larger and therefore cheaper for the same amount of wattage. A Socket 423 P4 system for video editing shouldn't need more than a new 400W PSU, but power requirements go up as you add more drives and expansion cards and RAM - so keep that in mind.

512MB of RAM is a little on the light side for your purposes, but still serviceable if you don't mind sub-par performance. Besides, RDRAM is expensive!! :eek: Unless you have a P4 SDRAM system?

[burnselk]

To test if your current problem is overheating (most likely the CPU since video editing is incredibly CPU-intensive) just open the case and set a normal house fan to blow into your computer. If it makes it past the 45 minute barrier without rebooting, the problem is overheating.

I bought a small desktop fan this afternoon and will try it soon and let you know the outcome.

[OUOTE] In order to install a better vid card, yes, you will need a new PSU. The one in that HP is probably ATX or microATX, depending on the size of the tower.[/QUOTE]

My current PSU is a 200 watt Bastec BST-ATX-1956D.

Just give us the dimensions and we can tell you which one it is. Both are standard sizes, but ATX PSU's are larger and therefore cheaper for the same amount of wattage. A Socket 423 P4 system for video editing shouldn't need more than a new 400W PSU, but power requirements go up as you add more drives and expansion cards and RAM - so keep that in mind.

That's good to know.

512MB of RAM is a little on the light side for your purposes, but still serviceable if you don't mind sub-par performance. Besides, RDRAM is expensive!! :eek: Unless you have a P4 SDRAM system?

My HP 7955 P4 uses SDRAM....and it's still expensive....never goes on sale much in my opinion. I can only go to 1 GB.....that's my limit. And I'm told the CPU can only go only slightly above 1.5GHz....not worth the $ to make this change.

[saphalline]

Couldn't find the rail info on your PSU, but at 200W it's unlikely to support a modern vid card very well. You could get by on a much cheaper older vid card, though. This would be my recommendation if you want to get that system to last a bit longer since putting a ton more money into it isn't cost-effective. Forget about upgrading the CPU. And yes, SDRAM is extremely expensive now. It hasn't been in full production since 2001! :eek:

[burnselk]

You could get by on a much cheaper older vid card, though. This would be my recommendation if you want to get that system to last a bit longer

What video card would you recommend that would give me 64MB or 128MB....at least 64MB.

My current nVIDIA RIVA TNT2 has only 32MB....I believe.

[saphalline]

Oh I forgot. Do you need a PCI or AGP vid card?

If you need AGP, here's a Radeon 9250 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814121525).

If you need PCI, here's a GeForce MX4000 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814139174).

Both of these are really cheap, but will do the job nicely I think.

[burnselk]

I can use either one.

I have one AGP port (after removing the nVIDIA) and one PCI port available.

Are these better than the nVIDIA RIVA TNT2 I now have? If so, what makes them better? I'm learning.

[saphalline]

If you have an AGP slot, that would be the preferred slot to use. AGP stands for Advanced Graphics Port, a special vid card-only expansion slot developed by Intel in 1999. It provides a dedicated link between the vid card and the rest of the system via a controller built into the Northbridge of the mobo chipset. Definitely better than PCI.

Yes, both of those vid cards I linked to are much better than your old vid card. The AGP Radeon 9250 in particular is several generations beyond the TNT2 series. For the specs, check out the website (http://www.sheaiden.com/GraphCard.php) that my friend and I put together. The main link is also in my sig. As you can see from the link, the TNT2 series is a 2 pipeline architecture with clock speeds well under 200 MHz for both the core and the RAM speeds, comprising only 15 million transistors. While the Radeon 9250 is a bit older by today's standards, the 36 million transistor VPU has a 4 pipeline DX8-based architecture with clock speeds around 200 MHz. It supports dynamic TNL (TNL+) and pixel & vertex shaders. It's also fully DX9 compatible and has gaming performance well above the old TNT2 series. The extra onboard RAM certainly helps, also, but RAM amount is only a part of the story of a vid card. Even so, the 128MB of the Radeon 9250 is four times the 32MB that your TNT2 has on it.

In short, the Radeon 9250 is far superior to the TNT2.

[burnselk]

Thanks for the information on the video cards and AGP slots. I was wondering if AGP or PCI was better.....and you told me.

The thing I need to watch is the wattage requirement of any video card I buy for my current rig. That's important since I only have a 200 watt PSU.

What's the wattage requirement for the Radeon 9250? I guess I can look that up myself...but if you have it handy.....send it along.

And, I'd still like for someone to tell me how to insert pictures of shots that you seem to "pick from your computer"....like the symbols below your name for instance. I'd like to learn how it's done because a "screen shot" of an error dialog box telling me what's causing a error/problem is worth a thousand words.....can you help me on this?

I'll take a look at your site and the 9250...especially the spec's. Thanks

I love the Willy Wonka quote.....that's me for sure!!

[burnselk]

I looked up the Radeon 9250 AGP System Requirements. Here they are:

Intel® Pentium® 4/III/II/Celeron™, AMD® K6/Duron™/Athlon®/Athlon XP® or compatible with AGP 2X (3.3V), 4X (1.5V), 8X (0.8v) or Universal AGP 3.0 bus configuration (2X/4X/8X) or PCI bus.

I see no mention of required wattage of the PSU. Why is that? The two eVGA eForce vcards I was talking about had mininum requirements of 250 watts.

What does AGP 2X (3.3V) mean?

What does 4X (1.5V) mean?

What is a Universal AGP 3.0 bus configuration (2X/4X/8X)?

And how can I determine what type of AGP slot I have in my HP Pavilion model 7955?

[saphalline]

Inserting pictures requires the use of the "img" tag. It's a lot like HTML, except replace the "<" with "[".

Your system most likely has an AGP 4x/2x slot, which is the AGP 2.0 spec, which uses 1.5V or 3.3V. That's my guess based on the generation of hardware you have.

As for the power consumption of the Radeon 9250, it's pretty lean. Many people with minimal configurations run it just fine with a 200W PSU. It's not recommended, but it works.

[burnselk]

saphalline, my HP only has a 200 watt PSU....and I still don't understand the AGP (or the "img" stuff....and how can I determine what AGP slot I have?

[saphalline]

200W should be enough. OEM's usually rates them low anyway (continuous output wattage vs peak output wattage). This still doesn't mean you can install a high-end power-guzzling vid card :p but a lowly Radeon 9250 should be fine.

To insert an image, you need to type "[" then "img" then a closing "]", then type the URL of any image you want to include. It needs to be available online or you can upload small images to the thread itself. To close the image tag, type "[" again, then "/", then "img" again, then a final closing "]". (I have to separate it all out like this or the VB software will think I want to post an image. :p)

I'm 99% certain you have an AGP 4x/2x, 1.5V/3.3V, 2.0 spec slot. This is based on my knowledge of hardware/chipsets traversing the eras of computer technology. To check for certain, you'll need to find out what chipset you have in your system. The best free utility for doing this is called Everest Home Edition, which is no longer being made but you should be able to find it on Download.com or something. Install Everest, run it, and tell us what it says under the "Motherboard" menu.

[burnselk]

North Bridge: Intel Brookdale i845
AGP Controller: AGP Version 2.0
AGP Status: Enabled
AGP Device: Asus AGP-V3800M
AGP Aperture Size: 64MB
Supported AGP Speeds: 1x,2x,4x
Current AGP Speed: 4x
Fast Write: Supported-Disabled
Side Band Addressing: Supported-Disabled

Is this what you need? Let me know if you need more from the Everest download.

Everest is a great tool. I only have a 30-day trial version. Can I get a permanent download free? The trial version doesn't give you everything....in some places it says [trial version] instead of what you're looking for. For instance for South Bridge is says [trial version].

[saphalline]

Ah, Brookdale. Good. I was afraid it might be Tehama or a SiS chipset.

As you can see, you have an AGP 2.0 spec slot. It can handle AGP vid cards of the 1x, 2x, or 4x variety. It also means it's a dual-voltage 1.5V/3.3V capable slot. Fast Writes and Side-Band Addressing are also available for that slot. Pity that HP put such a low-end surplus TNT2 in there at the time. :p But that was pretty common back then for the OEM's.

I see no reason why that Radeon 9250 wouldn't work just fine in that system.

I have the 220 release version of Everest back when it was free. That was just a few months ago, actually. Fully featured free version. I imagine they discontinued that because they were losing too much money. I'll have to see if we can't make that available as a download on our website. It will eventually get too old for modern hardware, but it's still really darn useful.

[jlreich]

You can still get the free version at File Hippo. http://www.filehippo.com/download_everest_home/

[burnselk]

Thanks jl.....that link was exactly what I needed.....now hopefully I'll still be able to use Everest....it's a great tool.

I'm currently using the "Everest Ultimate Edition 2006" demo version.....2.80.534 and it's about to expire.

So, Sappalline....did you give me the green light to go after the Radeon 9250 for my HP Pavilion 7955 after you saw what Everest gave me? Where would you recommend I buy it? New Egg or Ebay?

[saphalline]

Oh yeah, go ahead and get the 9250. I personally would get it from Newegg - new retail package vid card. But that's partly because of all those EBay horror stories I've heard...

Like the one about the poor woman who bid on an XBox 360 box and not the console itself! :eek: $400+ for just the package. She got screwed by the seller who did indeed label it as just the box and not the console itself... in tiny font at the bottom. :rolleyes: No recourse for her since it was all technically legal. EBay is a dangerous place.

[burnselk]

Thanks guys.....I believe I now have what I need to make my purchase.

[LordGene]

yea also just a reminder that most video cards today will require 250 watts. Reason why they dont add it to the box because new computers already come with a 250 or 300 watt standard PSU.

So its why u dont see it on the box. High end video cards will have it since some of them will need 350-400 watt PSU's

[burnselk]

That makes sense.....thanks mate. Best to ask the manufacturer I suppose....just to be sure.