Computer wont Boot

[BUMTY]

Hi could any one please help, my computer a Dell Dimension 2400, with windows XP Pro will not boot.

when i press the Start button I get the message “ Primary drive 1 not found press F1 to continue, Press F2 to run set up utility.

I pressed F1, and windows xp starts to load.

The windows XP Logo appears, for a few seconds then the screen goes black, and just stays Black.

the computer was working ok when i last used it and it shut down quite normally, but when i came to boot it this morning the above happened.

Thanks in advance.

[hockey man]

Interesting. . .Okay let's start with some basic stuff. Re-set all your IDE cables at both ends. Then when you boot press F8 before the Windows boot screen apears. Select to boot inot safe mode. Tell us if that works.

[BUMTY]

OK thanks, ile do that now

[Sylvander]

Try replacing your CMOS battery. :)

[BUMTY]

Sorry for the delay, but BT cut me off.

Cables re-seated, pressed f8, i got the option to start in safe mode. selected safe mode, and a white bar started going across the bottom of the screen, when the white bar got to the other side of the screen the process halted and is hung at that point.

I tried re-moving and replacing the battery, but it did not achieve anything, thanks.

Any more idea's would be apreciated.

[hockey man]

Sylvander, do you think this could be a HD problem?

[BUMTY]

i have tried fitting a new hard drive, but the computer does not pick up on the floppy drive with a 98 boot disk inserted. Nor does it pick up on the XP disk when it is placed in the CD ROM, so i cant even try re-installing windows. :confused:

I am well and truly stuffed.

[hockey man]

Sylvander or Sphalline woud be the ones who could help you from here. . .I'm not sure were to go from here.

[BUMTY]

ok thanks very much, for your help and advice hockey man, i am most grateful, and i hope i will be able to return the favour one day. Cheers.

[BUMTY]

Strangely enough, i have just managed (after many times of trying) to get the puter to go a step further, in safe mode but this time when i selected the safe the safe mode option i got a list of the following - Multi (0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)windows\system32\dri vers - then at the end of that a driver number.
that repeats all th eway down the screen, but with differant drivers listed at the end of the writing.

Does this help identify the probelm?

[Paul Komski]

That is a normal sequence for safe mode. There would normally be a delay of up to about a minute but the process should then complete and load windows. I would suggest a repair installation but if you cant access a CD you are a bit stymied.

See if you can boot to a cd after detaching the IDE cable from the HDD. It wont be able to install but it should confirm whether you can or not boot to a cd.

Double check the BIOS settings and confirm the boot order of the devices in there. When trying to boot to the installation CD look out for a message about pressing a key to boot to the CD.

Possibly there are bad secors on the HDD or it is in the early stages of failure. This can affect other hardware so another reason to see if you can boot to a floppy or CDROM with no HDD attached. Running the diagnostics from the HDD maker's website on a boot floppy or CD is the best way to check a failing drive out.

Since Windows is at least attempting to load it sounds as if the HDD is correctly identified in the BIOS setup but do confirm that it is seen there.

[Sylvander]

"Sylvander, do you think this could be a HD problem?"
Well, it might be, but I was and still am inclined to make sure all the other steps are right before concluding the HDD is faulty.

It's definite clue when Bumpty says:
"i have tried fitting a new hard drive, but the computer does not pick up on the floppy drive with a 98 boot disk inserted. Nor does it pick up on the XP disk when it is placed in the CD ROM"
Must try to figure out the significance of that. :)
Surely that suggests a problem in the BIOS's configuration settings [or with the BIOS itself?]

I'll look at these for inspiration...
Sylvander’s Diagnostic Flowcharts
Download a copy of my diagnostic flowcharts from here
www.erniek.eclipse.co.uk/downloads/sylvanderdiags.zip
and print them to leaf through.
Begin on the STARTUP chart.

a. On DF1
The POST did run right?
There is a display on the monitor.
There is no error code displayed.
Am I right in saying that SOMETIMES there is the beginning of a boot from a disk drive = the HDD?
Go to DF5 BOOT UP.

b. On DF5.
The system BEGINS TO BOOT FROM THE HDD.
The system DOESN'T BOOT FROM THE FDD.
[Most unusual not to be able to boot from either of these, you usually fall back on the FDD]
Could there be a PSU problem? [See DF7]

Check out the BIOS settings; make sure they look good [do you have a written record of the usual settings?].
Make sure all the drives are set to "Auto" and the FDD settings are correct.
[I'm wondering if the HDD (and other drives') parameters are incorrect]

How far does the Startup sequence get? To step 15?

A typical and successful startup sequence
1. Start of Boot Troubleshooting Walkthrough
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/index.htm
2. Yes: The system power supply is functioning
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/power1.htm
------------------------------------------------------
You should hear a single short beep at about this point indicating the successful running/completion of the POST. Some PC’s beep much later, possibly as late as just before step 12.
------------------------------------------------------
3. Yes: Something is being written to the screen during boot up [This may be only a flashing cursor]
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/video1.htm
4. The video BIOS message is displayed on the screen for a few seconds and then clears from the screen, or more messages display under it
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/vbios1.htm
5. Yes: The system BIOS startup screen is appearing
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/bios1.htm
6. The memory test completes successfully
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/ram1.htm
7. The BIOS accesses the floppy drives and the boot continues
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/seek1.htm
8. The system is able to autodetect IDE devices successfully
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/auto1.htm
9. The system is not Plug and Play compatible, has no Plug and Play devices, or has PnP devices but identifies them properly
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/pnp1.htm
10. Boot sequence is A: before C: (floppy disk first)
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/seqAC.htm
11. The floppy disk makes a noise and the light comes on
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/fd1.htm
12. The floppy disk light goes off and the hard disk light comes on as it starts booting
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/fd1hdd.htm
13. The hard disk boot process will continue here, if you want to follow it.
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/hd1.htm
14. The system continues booting from the hard disk and the message "Starting MS-DOS" or "Starting Windows 95" is displayed
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/boot/walk/hd1os.htm
15. Operating System Loaded From Hard Disk. The system has found a boot sector on the hard disk and is now starting the load of the operating system. The hard disk is working. You have successfully completed the hardware part of the boot process. Any problems encountered after this point should be diagnosed by looking for a more specific problem with a component, or under the section that contains run-time error messages.

"Multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)windows\system3 2\drivers"
This is a clue that Paul Komski would understand better.
This is one of the lines in one of the important XP boot files.
I wonder if that boot file is corrupted.
The EBCD has a program that will "Create Boot Floppy [NT/2000/XP]".
It explains how to do this in the "Other Info" item on the 1st menu.
You make this boot floppy and can edit the boot files to your liking if you know how.
Once done this boot floppy will get you past the boot problems and into WinXP, and you can then fix XP's own boot files.

I shall sleep on it. Perhaps the morning will bring inspiration. :D

[Paul Komski]

This is one of the lines in one of the important XP boot files.
Not exactly. The boot.ini lines (which I presume you are talking about) reference windows and not the drivers in the system32 sub-directory. A series of these lines appear when trying to boot to safemode and the last one references mup.sys. eg http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic16935.html

The problem looks like a windows one but it is possible it is hardware.

[BUMTY]

I have disconected the hard drive, and tried to boot from CD, but it still does not pick up on the XP disk in the CD ROM, but when i put a Windows 98 boot disk in the A:/ drive it stared to load the Disk and i got to the A:/ prompt.

When i disconnect all the drives i get a message saying that they are not detected, so that must mean that when they are connected, they are being detected, but the XP disk will not not start to install.

Does that explain anything thing? - i hope :confused:


I have followed the trouble shooter flow chart and the onclusion was that it could probably be the Video card, which i think means the graphics (am i correct??) which is on board. Is there any way of testing the on board video / Grahics?

Thanks.

[Sylvander]

"tried to boot from CD, but it still does not pick up on the XP disk in the CD ROM"
Try using a bootable CD that you KNOW works. [Do you have any?]

"put a Windows 98 boot disk in the A:/ drive it stared to load the Disk and i got to the A:/ prompt"
You could use a floppy-loaded DOS prompt to try to read the contents of a CD in the CD-drive [or else use "File Manager" on the EBCD below (if it boots) to read the contents of the Windows CD & run the Windows installation file].
You could also run the HDD manufacturers diagnostic on a floppy to test the HDD.

"I have followed the trouble shooter flow chart and the conclusion was that it could probably be the Video card, which i think means the graphics (am i correct??)"
I got a different interpretation of the charts as follows:
START UP
a. the POST completed with a single short beep and the monitor begins to display, right?
b. There is no error code displayed, but Windows fails to boot, it only begins to load and halts at the XP logo, right?
c. Hence, you go to the DF5: BOOT UP chart.
BOOT UP
d. The system does actually begin loading WinXP from the HDD [hence the hardware section of Startup is completed successfully and the problem is with the Windows software].
Try running "Step-by-step confirmation" from the Startup menu and hit "Enter" at each command to see what results from each.
e. The FDD can NOW be accessed.
f. Hence, no problem with BOOT UP by reading from disks on these drives.
g. You are unable to load info from one particular CD in the CD-drive; it may be the CD that's faulty, try to boot from a known good CD, or to read a CD using a floppy disk DOS command.

Here's a VERY GOOD bootable CD.
1. How to make a free EBCD bootable CD
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=41485
This has a number of useful utilities included including "Image" [for DOS, by Terabyte] & "File Manager".

This will detect the bootable drives available:
2. How to make a free “Smart Boot Manager” floppy
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=41498
Makes it easier to boot a chosen drive [particularly the one holding the EBCD].

[BUMTY]

Thanks Sylvanda,

i have used 2 differant XP disks that i know work, still no luck.

Could you post me the instructions on how to use the floppy loaded dos prompt, and where to get it from.

I will try all your other sugestions, and get back with the results, and thanks very much for all your help and advice.

[Sylvander]

"Could you post me the instructions on how to use the floppy loaded dos prompt, and where to get it from"
You already had one. You said...
"i put a Windows 98 boot disk in the A:/ drive it stared to load the Disk and i got to the A:/ prompt"
The Win98 Startup floppy loads DOS and takes you to the a:\> prompt.
Be sure to choose "With CD-ROM support".
Look at the screen to read the letter given to the RAMdrive.
The HDD partitions come first, then the RAMdrive, then the optical drives.
A Win98 boot floppy will also boot to an a:\> prompt [but doesn't have all the many programs that a Startup floppy has and doesn't load drivers for the CD-drive, so you wouldn't be able to access the CD-drive with this].
You can input DOS commands at that prompt to get DOS to take you elsewhere [to your optical drive for example].

Do you know how to input DOS commands?

[Sylvander]

HERE (http://www.onecomputerguy.com/install/floppies.htm#boot_floppy) is a non-standard, but better Win98 Startup floppy than the ordinary Microsoft version.
One of the improvements is that the optical drives begin with the letter X [mine are X: & Y:], therefore you ALWAYS know which drive letter to type no matter how many partitions are on the HDD.
It also has more programs [therefore DOS commands] on it.
It's VERY easy to make.
Just download the executable file to a PC, put a [formatted or unformatted] floppy disk in the FDD and run the executable; it will do everything necessary to make the workable Win98 Startup floppy.

[BUMTY]

i think that i just type the commands at the A:/ promt yes?

But i dont know what commands to type, could you tell me?

Thanks.

[Sylvander]

First it depends upon which Startup floppy you are using.
Assuming you use Bob Cerelli's non-standard startup floppy, then the 1st optical drive will have the letter X.
Hence:
[press/release the "Enter" key after each command]

a:\>x: [This changes the focus to the X: drive]
Result is...
X:\>

X:\>dir /p [Displays the content of the X: drive one page at a time]
Then...
X:\>cd winxp [Change directory to the (WinXP?) directory holding the installation program file]
Result is...
X:\WinXP>
Then...
X:\WinXP>dir /p [Display the contents of the WinXP directory one page at a time (to find the installation file and its name)]
Then...
X:\WinXP>i386 [Or whatever the name of the WinXP installation file is]

It's actually easier to run the EBCD "File Manager, then swap it out for the WinXP installation CD and use the File Manager to navigate to the WinXP installation file on the CD and "Open" it. That will run the Windows installation.

It's even better to copy use the File Manager to copy the files to a partition [other than C:] and run the installation from there, then leave the files there.
I showed how to do this in post #4 on the EBCD thread.

[whosyerdaddy]

Have you checked the boot order in BIOS? The CD drive might not be set to boot.

[darkBagus]

Hi could any one please help, my computer a Dell Dimension 2400, with windows XP Pro will not boot.

when i press the Start button I get the message “ Primary drive 1 not found press F1 to continue, Press F2 to run set up utility.

I pressed F1, and windows xp starts to load.

The windows XP Logo appears, for a few seconds then the screen goes black, and just stays Black.

the computer was working ok when i last used it and it shut down quite normally, but when i came to boot it this morning the above happened.

Thanks in advance.

check your harddisk cable, maybe it is not well connected....
also check the BIOS setting....maybe there's something wrong with the setting of the master harddisk....

[BUMTY]

Sorry about the delay in replying, i just had a couple of days in hospital, with heart trouble, (this ruddy computer is killing me) :D

any way i tried what you told me, but i could only get so for before it went wrong, i did as below.

a:\>x: [This changes the focus to the X: drive]
Result is...
X:\>

X:\>dir /p [Displays the content of the X: drive one page at a time]
Then...
X:\>cd winxp [Change directory to the (WinXP?) directory holding the installation program file]
Result is...

And i got the message, "invalid directory" can any one tell me what went wrong, and what i should do next, Thanks

[Sylvander]

Ah...
Sorry about that, my fault. :(

You see, I don't have an XP disk here and don't know enough about XP to know the ACTUAL folder and file names.
That's why I suggested the X:\>dir /p command with the /p parameter so that the content of the drive would be displayed one page at a time and you could READ that and find the likely folder name.
I think it may be the i386 folder/directory that holds the WINNT.exe file, but you need to look for those and replace the names I used with the correct folder and file names.
So when it told you that winxp was an "invalid directory" it was almost certainly telling you true. There probably is no such directory [wish I had an XP CD].

If you can work up the enthusiasm to make the bootable EBCD, then it's much easier to navigate through the file system on the Windows CD by using "File Manager". That removes all the difficulty and stress and makes it fairly routine [once you get the hang of it]. No need to know/remember DOS commands.

p.s. I too had a few days in hospital some months back with heart difficulties [high blood pressure]. The pain was VERY nasty and at the hospital they took their own sweet time giving me an injection to relieve that.

[BUMTY]

Cheers Sylvander, you are a gentle man for sure, and you are correct the pain is real bad, i just hope it dont come back, sory to hear that your as bad as me.

I will run off the EBCD have a pop at that, and then post back. Thanks.

[Paul Komski]

If X: is the drive letter of the CDROM containing a WinXP installation CD then you should be able to run the dos installer by typing:
x:\i386\wint
at any command prompt.

I personally prefer to copy the i386 folder to the hard drive first and then run the installer from there, eg by typing:
c:\i386\winnt
at any command prompt.

When at the C:\> prompt type md i386 to create the directory in C:
and then type copy X:\i386\*.* c:\i386 at any command prompt to copy the files to the hard drive.

Finally you would then enter
c:\i386\winnt
at any command prompt to run the installation totally from the hard drive.

[Sylvander]

I second that except that I like to keep the files on a partition other than C: :D

...And then leave them there permanently.

And it's REALLY NICE to do it using the EBCD.
I showed how I did that in post #4 on the EBCD thread.

[BUMTY]

OK, thanks Paul komski and Sylvander, i will give it a go, and let you know how it goes.

[BUMTY]

i typed c:\i386\winnt at the A;\ prompt and got the message "invalid drive specification"

i then typed x:\i386\winnt and then got a blue screen saying as below

windows xp set up

an internal set up error has occured.

Could not find a space for swap file.

Set up can not continue. Press enter to exit.

[BUMTY]

Any idea what the problem could be any one. Thanks.

[Sylvander]

Ummmm...
You succeeded in getting the Windows installation program to run, but when it ran it couldn't find a [suitably formatted active primary] partition [or enough space on such a partition] to begin the installation [make a swap file].

That's new to me; never come across it before, so it has me puzzled.

Paul's more likely to possess the necessary knowledge to interpret this.

If it were me I'd be trying to use the EBCD File Manager to read the contents of the drive.
Or looking for a program to study the partitioning setup.
Is the HDD properly set up for use?
Auto-detected in the BIOS Setup?
KILLDISK (http://www.killdisk.com/downloadfree.htm) wil detect and display the HDD partitions and various other details.
Have you tried the HDD manufacturers HDD testing utility?

[stefanus]

I second that except that I like to keep the files on a partition other than C: :D

...And then leave them there permanently.

And it's REALLY NICE to do it using the EBCD.
I showed how I did that in post #4 on the EBCD thread.

Sorry for gate crashing this thread! Where can I find the EBCD thread #4? Thanx

[Sylvander]

I posted it further up this thread, but here it is again...
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=41485
Just click on this link and then when the page opens scroll down to post #4.

[BUMTY]

The problem is that, although the computer does detect all drives( hard drive ROM and Re-writer) it does not see the disks in the drives.

The hard drive has windows XP installed on it, which was working perfect till i tried to boot it up, after being stood overnight. Auto detect is enabled in the BIOS.


At the moment i have surrendered to the damn thing, I admit defeat, and i have asked another young man (oh the shame) to take it and try to sort it out for me, if this guy gets a hiding from this machine, and fails also, i will give KILLDISK a go, and failing that, i will call in the Vicar and have the bloody thing exorcised. :D

i will post back with the results, and thanks again for all your help, i am sincerely greatful :)

[Paul Komski]

Sylvander asked - and I second: "Have you tried the HDD manufacturers HDD testing utility?"

If it passes download, unzip and run partinfo from ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/utilities/partinfo.zip Use the copy to clipboard button and paste the results back here.

[BUMTY]

i got the PC back to day, the young man, says that it is the mother board that is shot.

I have just seen the reply from Paul, and i will now run the hard drive test as well, just to be sure.

Thanks Paul.

[BUMTY]

Sylvander asked - and I second: "Have you tried the HDD manufacturers HDD testing utility?"

If it passes download, unzip and run partinfo from ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/utilities/partinfo.zip Use the copy to clipboard button and paste the results back here.


Does this programe save on to a floppy disc?????, and do i un zip the programe after i have installed it on the problem computer?

Thanks.

[mjc]

After reading through all this, I tend to agree with the tech who diagnosed it a MB problem...these are classic symptoms of bad capacitors on the motherboard. Most probably the caps on the IDE controller circuitry are the bad ones. There are a large number of motherboards built with very low quality capacitors over than past 5-6 years (not so many the past 2-3 years) and it is only a matter of time before they give up the ghost...

[BUMTY]

Thanks mjc

[Sylvander]

"Does this programe save on to a floppy disc?????, and do i un zip the programe"
What I did was...

a. Downloaded the file onto my [working] PC.

b. Unzipped the partinfo.zip file; result was partinfo.exe.

c. Ran partinfo.exe within Windows [double-clicked the file]. The partition info was displayed in a DOS window.

d. Copied partinfo.exe to a [Win98] boot floppy.

e. Restarted my PC with the above floppy in the FDD.

f. a:\> prompt was displayed.

g. Entered a:\>partinfo command and the partition info was displayed in a DOS window.

[Sylvander]

Hey Paul, I tried using partinfo, but it only displays part of the info list from item 7 through 28.
The items before 7 are off the top of the screen.
I suspect there may be LOTS of info about many partitions that has scrolled off the top of the screen.
Tried:
a:\>partinfo /p
but the program reported that [/p] is an invalid switch.

Any idea how I should make it display in such a way that I can see all of the list?

[Paul Komski]

First output to a file not the screen

partinfo > info.txt

Then read info.txt in windows or from dos with edit.com on the same floppy.

[Sylvander]

WOW!
That worked well, and what a wealth of information. :)

I've just added edit.com to the floppy and changed the Autoexec.bat file on the floppy to make edit.com run automatically after partinfo has sent its info to info.txt.

Now let's see if it works. ;)

[Sylvander]

It's all working wonderfully well. :D :cool:

Jump to the end of this thread to see the final result, or read through to see the various twists and turns in making it.

ptedit.exe [edits partition info]
partinfo.exe [automatically sends partition info to info.txt file]
Edit.com [automatically reads content of info.txt file]
All on one boot floppy (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=45974)

[Paul Komski]

BTW - If you ever want to append rather than create/overwrite when outputting to a file use a double caret.

eg:

partinfo >> info.txt

in place of

partinfo > info.txt

;)

And regarding using code tags I suggest using code rather than php tags. The latter look prettier maybe but certain characters (notably the backslash \) will not display since it is an "escape" character when writing php code.

[Sylvander]

Perhaps this should be in the other thread, but...

"If you ever want to append rather than create/overwrite when outputting to a file use a double caret"
You've just answered a question that my mind was asking for an answer to and "I" wasn't giving it.
The question was...
"What happens when partinfo is run a second time?
Does it overwrite, or append, or produce an error, or what?
But what on earth is a "caret"?
That little symbol I take it.
So I deduce that...
One caret produces an overwrite...
And two makes it append.

"regarding using code tags"
What are they?
Answer in the other thread I suggest.

"I suggest using code rather than php tags"
What are php tags?
Answer in the other thread I suggest.

"certain characters (notably the backslash \) will not display since it is an "escape" character when writing php code."
WHOOOSH!
Duh, that's the sound of that going right over my head and beyond my knowledge and understanding.
This is giving my chuckle-muscle a good workout. :D
Any explanation in the other thread I suggest.

[Paul Komski]

A caret is actually ^ aka a hat and often used mathematically to represent to the power of when superscript is unavailable.

A "sideways" caret (if such a term can be forgiven) such as < and > are more usually known by their mathematical notations of less-than and greater-than respectively. With HTML they are used to enclose tags.

In vbulletin, tags are enclosed within square brackets instead so as to not confuse with the underlying HTML. CODE and PHP tags can be entered directly or, as you have no doubt discovered, from the icons on the Full Reply Forms found underneath the Color drop down menu.

Dont worry about escaping and such - just dont use PHP unless you are really wanting to display such code properly.

There used to be more versatility on these boards by actually being able to put in HTML ourselves. This was abused and so Charles disabled it. What one writes and how it gets parsed before being displayed is what its all about.