Legacy (1999!) Help needed re Video Card

[Scarlett]

I have an old Soyo SY-6BE+ motherboard that is running on a High Power 250w PSU, and I want to replace the video card. The AGP slot is v1.0 compliant for AGP 1x and 2x--this means 3.3 v. cards, right? The card I want to replace is an S3 Savage4, and I am using an Hitachi CM751 monitor with this system.

The CPU is a PIII-450, the bus clock on the board is 100 MHz, I have 384 MB of RAM in 3 x 128 MB SDRAM, and--believe it or not--I am running XP SP1 on this machine. My husband uses it for Internet surfing, and my grandsons use it to play a few games. It isn't the fastest puppy on the block, but it seems to be sufficient for their needs.

I bought a GE-Force FX5200 card at Fry's, believing that it would run on this motherboard, but there is a warning on the side of the box that it is to be used only in v2.0 or v3.0 compliant AGP slots (1.5 v.)

There probably isn't a video card I can buy new to run in this machine, but can you suggest a decent used card for me?

Many thanks!

Scarlett

[saphalline]

The most recent AGP 1.0 compatible vid card would be a GeForce MX4000 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814127128) series, but you can also find an older GeForce2 MX series or Radeon 7000/7500 series. They shouldn't be very much money at all, like the one on Newegg. The other possibility is to use a PCI vid card. PCI slots haven't changed in a long time, so just about any cheap PCI vid card would also work.

[Scarlett]

Saphalline, thanks for the reply! You are always first to my rescue. :)

I was surprised to learn that they are still making new video cards for such old technology. I have read all the reviews on the Newegg site for the MSI card you suggested. Sounds like just what I need, and I have always had good luck with Newegg purchases.

I do have some questions:

(1) How do you know, or how can you tell from the technical specifications that a card is v1.0, v2.0, or v3.0 compliant? I couldn't find any mention of a specific "version" in any of the specs.

(2) Am I correct in my assumption that v1.0 always means a 3.3 volt card?

(3) The MX4000 card you suggested comes with either 64 or 128 MB of memory. Is the 128MB card also v1.0 compliant? The specs said that it was a 4X-8X card. Can a 4X-8X card be v1.0 compliant? If so, then I am wrong about v1.0 cards always being 3.3 volts, because on the Soyo support site, it was stated that 4X are 1.5 volt cards and 8X are 0.8 volt cards!

(4) Is there significant benefit to be derived from the 128MB card over the 64MB card--provided, of course, that it is v1.0 compliant?

These seem like really stupid questions to me! I feel as if I should already know and understand the answers--but if I ever knew them, I have forgotten them, and I am hopelessly confused!

Thanks again for the help!

Scarlett

[Scarlett]

Because I felt so stupid, I did some quick research on AGP standards, and I am now not quite so confused. I also came across a question that was almost identical to my original question. The following quote is the answer that was given. Would you agree or disagree with this advice? If you agree, I have an old Matrox Millenium PCI card that I could use, but would the FX5200 PCI card be a better choice? My board's specs do say 1X/2X.
The MX will work with your AGP then if it is 1X/2X. AGP cards will only fit into the AGP slot. If yours is a Pre-P4 machine (and I suspect it is) your machine, given that it can only support 2X, will only power a 2X card no matter what the voltage it may be capable of. Put a 4X in there and welcome a black screen. the FX5200 AGP is 4X and won't work.

Be realistic, just how many more PCI devices are you going to put into that machine? If you have a PCI slot free, slap a PCI card in it. The FX5200 PCI will run like a dream (well, it will be a solid card that will run your applications trouble free). Keep in mind that your motherboard included the AGP slot because when it came out AGP was the "wave of the future" and you would have had it as an expandable option. But, the fact was, that your motherboard was meant to really run a PCI card.

Tell you what. Look at the placement of the AGP slot and its proximity to your RAM. Depending on the amount of RAM you have installed (and you should max it out since Windows is RAM hungry) the real weakness of the MX is the fan. It is an intermittant fan that is supposed to cycle on and off. If your slot is close to the RAM, it is going to run hot and the fan will run constantly, which it is not supposed to do, nor was the AGP 1.0 designed to sustain. I like the MX and ran it in a PIII machine with W2K. It ran just fine - right up to the day the fan failed (six months later). I put a PCI card in four years ago - it is still running.
I looked, and my AGP slot is right beside my RAM. The MX4000 doesn't have a fan--only a heat sink. Does the excessive heat mean only that the card will fry itself, or would there be potential danger to the monitor, i.e., would the heat affect the signalling voltage? I don't want to lose another monitor!

I am beginning to think I need to eBay all of my antique computer components and start learning about technology in the 21st Century. These old dogs do just about everything I want them to do, but it's hard to keep up with escalating technology and still remember what it takes to keep the legacy stuff runnning--especially at my age!

Scarlett

[saphalline]

(1) - AGP is really really confusing. I can just barely keep track of the versions and their implications after years of "here & there" research. Here's a basic run-down:

v1.0 = 3.3V = 1x & 2x speeds
v2.0 = 1.5V = 4x speed
v3.0 = 0.8V = 8x speed

(2) - Yes, but there's some cross-over that can occur. For instance, an AGP 4x/8x card can operate in either 4x or 8x mode and is dual-voltage capable, either 1.5V or 0.8V. The latest AGP vid cards are 8x-only and will only operate in an AGP 3.0 slot in 0.8V only. The vid card I linked to is 2x/4x meaning it can operate in either 2x or 4x mode, with either 3.3V or 1.5V, in either a 1.0 or 2.0 slot.

(3) - No, the 128MB version is 4x/8x, so that's a no-go for your mobo. If it doesn't say 2x or 1x, then it won't work in your mobo.

(4) - At the level your old system is at, there won't be a noticeable difference between a 64MB or 128MB vid card. Put simply, the CPU speed can't keep up to the point where that would be an issue. It's sort of like driving an old clunker car on the highway - if the car can only get up to 65 mph, it doesn't matter if the speed limit is 70 mph or 90 mph.

You can also check out any local computer shops in your area to comparison shop. That MX4000 I linked to is one of the few AGP 2x/4x vid cards that Newegg still has available. Newegg is usually right on top of the latest technologies, so their selection of older components isn't as good. You might find a comparable deal nearby your home, or you might not. Either way, that MX4000 I linked to will work.

It won't have excessive heat problems. Or rather, if it did, it wouldn't be the only part in there to be overheating! :p The vid card manufacturers are actually quite good about making sure the GPU's/VPU's have adequate cooling for any normal system. If it needs a fan, they put one on. If it doesn't, they don't (which is the case for most lower end vid cards). The major benefit of picking out vid cards with passive cooling (heatsink only - no fan) for older systems is that you don't have to worry about the fan ever dying! :cool: Low maintenance is always something I look for in secondary or older systems. Vid cards with passive cooling is one of my little "tricks" for doing this.

Honestly, the specs on that MX4000 are pathetic compared to modern vid cards, but that system will never be able to play Oblivion anyway. And in terms of gaming performance, that vid card is respectable in relation to that system.

[Scarlett]

Saphalline, thank you for the refresher course! It's all coming back to me now, but it is confusing, and if I don't work with it on a daily basis, I do tend to forget.

At my husband's insistence, I checked locally with Discount Electronics--they just laughed at me! Therefore, I will now check on eBay--again at my husband's insistence--to see if I can locate a brand new, old stock, AGP 1.0 compliant video card with a heat sink. If there isn't one that compares with the MX4000 at a substantially lower price, then I am off to Newegg to make the purchase.

It never ceases to amaze me that my husband is so quick to give me all kinds of advice about what I should buy for the computers, especially in view of the fact that he can barely get the case open, and once he does, he wouldn't know a video card from a NIC or a sound card--much less how to remove and/or replace one! It's essentially like my telling him what kind of spark plugs to buy, when I can barely get the hood up on a car, and once inside, I don't have a clue how to remove and/or replace one! :) But we have a deal--he keeps the cars running, and I keep the computers running. He has a mechanic for when he's in over his head, and I have you! In my opinion, my expert is better than his. :)

Thanks again for the information and advice--you are the best!

Scarlett