Feedback please on 1st pc build components list

[Fred Forsythe]

After looking at a few OEM possibilities, I am planning to build my 1st pc. I've done a fair amount of moding to my present, 5yo Athlon 1100 & I have an electronics background, so I'm not too trouble about being able to slap everything together, it's sifting through the bewildering array of possible component combos which I find a bit daunting. I plan to use the machine for the usual Internet etc., plus I want to integrate it into our home entertainment set up (i.e., "tv") & use it as a dvr. And I'm looking to put together a box which will be fast enough & have enough capacity to expand into whatever may come up in the reasonable future. So, after a fair amount of research, here's my 1st list of bits:


Intel Pentium D 930 Presler 800MHz FSB LGA 775 Dual Core Processor Model BX80553930 $324.00

Intel BOXD975XBXLKR Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard $214.99

Crucial Technology 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model CT2KIT12864AA667 $229.00

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000KS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive $285.00

SAPPHIRE 100106-RD Radeon X850XT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card $164.00

Creative External Sound Blaster Live! SB0490 5.1 Channels USB Interface Sound Card $47.50

POWERCOLOR T55E-P03 PCI-Express x1 Interface TV tuner card $85.00

PLEXTOR 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model PX-740A/SW-BL

Antec LifeStyle SONATA II Piano Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450Watt SmartPower 2.0 ATX 12V V2.0 for AMD & Intel systems Power Supply $99.99

LG L2000C Black 20.1" 8ms (G to G) LCD Monitor $539.99

Total so far on "NewEgg" (where I may or may not buy all/some of the above, but just for reference) is $2069.46, w/o shipping or tax, minus ~$40 in rebates.

I also plan to add 2 Western Digital ide HDD's which are in my present box, one 120 gig & one 160 gig, plus a basic ATI tuner card I already have (would like to be able to DVR 2 things at once). Comment please (but be gentle, I'M NEW AT THIS :D :D :D

Fred

[Boxo]

I think it looks like a good start. Are you willing to spend that much on parts?

The only things i'd change are the RAM and CPU choices.

For a CPU i'd go with an AMD single or dual core. Either the AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103562) (for a dual core) or a single core like the AMD Athlon 64 3800+ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103531). From my experiance, AMD's can be overclocked like crazy.

For RAM i would go with the G.SKILL Extreme Series 2GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231021) .

The alternatives i posted are less expensive and just as good of a choice. Good luck. :)

[Fred Forsythe]

Thanks for the reply. I guess it does seem a bit steep. But I almost went for a Dell XPS 600 which wasn't as much machine & cost $600+ more, or an HP for about the same price. Not that I'm averse to saving a few bucks :D . I've had good luck with Crucial memory in upgrades. For this particular mobo I'd need the 240 pin ram, even cheaper than the 184 for the G.Skill brand, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231044 $90 less than the Crucial. Certainly worth considering, thanks. I've had 2 AMD machines, including my present Athlon which has served me well. I had to start with one CPU brand, so I started with Intel. I'll look into AMD as well.

Any more thoughts greatly appreciated!

Fred

[hockey man]

First off, at this point I would recommend that you wait. There are several huge changes in the CPU world that should be coming out shortly. With RAM, the Crucial stuff you like is good stuff. Stick with kigston, Corsair, OCZ, or Crucial. However, don't worry about the faster speeds. The standard DDR2 533 will suffice. With the video card, are you going to game? If not, then what you have is overkill. Don't shell out the extra for Plextors. Save some $$, get somethink like a NIC or Light-on. They will be just as good for much cheaper.

[saphalline]

Boxo - Don't recommend parts based on OC'ing potential. That is never a guarantee and is frowned upon for most areas of the forums. OC'ing is not for beginners nor for anyone interested in stability and simplicity. There is a section of the forums for that, but it is not here.

Fred Forsythe - I agree with hockey man that you should wait. If you can't wait, I have several ideas about the list you provided in terms of shaving off some money or just plain improving things. One component that is definitely out of place is the vid card. The X850 XT is really old news. There are much better vid cards out right now in that price range, both for modern technologies and for shader performance. If you can wait for summer when both Intel and AMD will be making some rather big advancements, that would be ideal. Let us know what you think.

[Fred Forsythe]

Saphalline & HM - Thanks for the replies. Can you guys direct me to some in depth info on the differences in the next generation of cpu's? If it really is a quantum leap, I can see the advisability of waiting, I'm just concerned that 1) the real world performance differences will be minor 2) the real world price difference will be major 3) the bugs (particularly with regard to associated mobo's) will not have been worked out. Also Saphalline please suggest some other vid cards. No I likely will not be gaming, but I do want as much as possible in terms of tv out capacity. Also HM on the burner, I have a Liteon 811S right now, was well reviewed at the time I bought it but seems a bit unreliable (lots of "burn failed" results with Nero Vision on DVD+RW's of late). Any specific models I should look at?

TIA!

Fred

[Boxo]

Boxo - Don't recommend parts based on OC'ing potential. That is never a guarantee and is frowned upon for most areas of the forums. OC'ing is not for beginners nor for anyone interested in stability and simplicity. There is a section of the forums for that, but it is not here.

Sorry about that

[saphalline]

Sorry about thatNo problem, just keep that in mind for the future. A lot of the people who stop by here for component advice are total newbies. Oftentimes, they don't even know what a chipset is! They are not ready for OC'ing.

Can you guys direct me to some in depth info on the differences in the next generation of cpu's? If it really is a quantum leap, I can see the advisability of waiting, I'm just concerned that 1) the real world performance differences will be minor 2) the real world price difference will be major 3) the bugs (particularly with regard to associated mobo's) will not have been worked out.If you want some info, it's scattered all over the web. Just do some searches for terms like "Intel Core", "Intel Conroe", "AMD AM2", etc. You'll get tons of article hits from all sorts of hardware/computer sites. Just check the date of the ones you read. ;) The newer articles have more detailed info.

As for your concerns, they are understandable but moot. Intel is unvieling a new microarchitecture, for instance. Something that the CPU companies do once every few years (not once every 9 months like graphics processors) so this is really big news! AMD is also consolidating their desktop CPU's to a single platform again, something that hasn't happened since the days of Socket A. They are also adding DDR2 support (DDR2-800 specifically). The fact that both Intel and AMD are making some major changes at the same time makes it that much more important to wait! Anything you buy now won't have a good upgrade path in the face of these new changes. And going with a Pentium D right now is just a bad idea! But let's go through your concerns one at a time:

1) - AMD's performance changes will be small. But the fact of the matter is they aren't making a CPU architecture change, nor do they need to. They are making a platform change. Their new AM2 socket represents a shift towards mainstream dual-core CPU's and the use of DDR2 RAM, which is cheaper and more energy efficient and capable of much higher capacities than DDR RAM.

Intel, on the other hand, is going to knock your socks off! Their new Core CPU's are a completely different CPU design than the Pentium4. It's all about more performance per clock speed, and the benchmarks are outstanding! Hardware sites have independently benchmarked some of these new Core Duo's as being much faster than the P4 at just about everything. The design is more efficient so a Core Duo at 2.2GHz beats a P4 at 3.4GHz without breaking a sweat. On top of that, the Core Duo's are dual-core CPU's, smaller in size, use less than half as much energy (meaning they also produce less heat so are easier to cool) and can even beat AMD's Athlon64 in gaming (something the P4 can't do even with a 50% higher clock speed). AMD still represents a threat to Intel, but at least Intel will be taking back the performance crown this time around.

2) - The days of $1000 CPU's are long gone. Both Intel and AMD have been pushing for cheaper CPU's for years - and they make them cheaper to produce, too! There's no reason to think that any of these new CPU's are going to be twice as much money as the old ones. On the contrary! I'd be surprised if these new CPU's are $100 more than the current ones. For Intel especially, the prices will be quite low for the Core Duo's. They started fighting AMD in a major dual-core price war with the Pentium D's, and so far they're winning. Also keep in mind that Intel and AMD want you to move to the new CPU's and platforms. Without your monetary support, they can't start making revisions!

Even if the systems as a whole end up being a bit more expensive, it's a small price to pay for the latest and greatest. What we're talking about here is the significant portion of any system's ability to be upgradable. If you go with an older CPU/socket/chipset, your "new" system starts out life being behind. We get new members here all the time that just recently purchased hardware that hasn't been new for over a year! :eek: And now they're stuck with older hardware, and for the most part they either saved $30 total on their new computer or they didn't save anything. Older hardware is sometimes cheaper, but lately it really hasn't been. Take for instance the Radeon X800 GTO vid card. The latest PCIe x16 version is about $125 for the 256MB card. The AGP version is $200! That's rather shocking considering that AGP is dead for anyone looking for a new system. In this case, we see that those who are still nursing AGP systems are being charged a great deal for it. Well, no one has any reason to complain anymore. PCIe x16 has been out for over a year. Those who haven't moved on by now are suffering for it.

3) - That's not a good reason to stay behind the curve anymore. Updates in the hardware world are constant. Heck, there are still bugs in the current line of hardware as far as I'm concerned! But oftentimes, the bugs are merely limitations that need the next best version in order to be fixed. And as far as bugs that cripple systems and crash OS installs, that hasn't happened in years. Take the last chipset run: Intel's i900 series went out the gate with a silky-smooth transition. There were NO PROBLEMS. AMD's NForce4 also came out of the gate without a scratch. The SLI version had some hang-ups, but that wouldn't affect you since you're not a gamer. Honestly, I haven't seen a bad hardware gen roll-out in a long time.

Fear should not keep you from getting the very best upgrade potential that you can get for your new system.

[Fred Forsythe]

Saphalline-thank you for taking the time to write such a thorough, informative reply! I'm afraid up to now I wasn't really up to speed on the chronology of even the cpu's out presently, so while I have done some searching, I wasn't sure whether what I read referred to the REALLY new chips, or just newER chips. Searching Intel Conroe did the trick! I gather you feel the Intel is the way to go, over the AMD? As to pricing, I see on one site in the UK, (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/04/05/intel_conroe_pricing_details/) they are claiming initial prices as follows for the 1st 4 to be offered:

E6300/1.86 GHZ, $209
E6400/2.13 GHZ, $244
E6600/2.40 GHZ, $316
E6700/2.67 GHZ, $530

If this holds, my concerns re: pricing are indeed allayed. Given that the Pentium D 930 Presler I was considering is priced at $324, I'd go at least for the E6600 in this machine! I guess some can't wait, however, if this Ebay link is any indication http://cgi.ebay.com/Intel-Conroe-Processor_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ80144QQitemZ6 866351114QQrdZ1 :D

Any tips on getting the jump on mobo selection for the Conroe?

Thanks again,

Fred

[saphalline]

AMD's details are still slim, and I wouldn't dare count them out considering their Athlon64's have been pummeling the Pentium4's for over a year now, but there just isn't enough info on the CPU's for their new socket to make an informed decision. In any case, I do know that I would prefer a Conroe Core Duo over any CPU currently out. And you only have to wait a couple more months.

Yep, that pricing looks good. Better than I expected, honestly, but I hear these new Intel CPU's are much cheaper to produce.

Haha! That EBay link is to an engineering sample. You wouldn't want that considering it's listed as only having a 2MB L2 cache. The Conroe's are supposed to have a 4MB L2 cache (check the article you linked to for instance). Just wait for the "real" ones that are meant to be sold.