"new" PC self destructs in < 3 hours

[johnnysocko]

Likely irrelevant background - prior system around 4-5 yrs old, P4 based, hanging at XP startup. New HD re-installed < 1 year old. Decided to replace mobo...course, required replacing most components.

New on system:
ASUS P5N32-SLI Deluxe
Intel P4 775 (clock speed I forget)
Micron 2X1GB doublesided DDR 533 NONECC
500W Power supply
PNY 6800GS PCIE Video card

Hand me downs from prior system:
HD, Floppy, DVD, CDROM, Case, Monitor.

Assembled in case...power on first time. Looks great. New CPU, hit F1. BIOS set the system clock. Menu tab works. Walk around the house, high fiving the wife. Back to the menu.

What's this? It's froze!!!!

It's basically new, and freezes like the old? Disconnect HD. Why? I have no idea. Power on, no video, no beeps.

Call to ASUS tech support. Let's see. My 2 RAM sticks in A1&A2, rearrange one in A1 & B1. Reboot. Still nothing. Take out A1, leave B1. Reboot. Nothing. Remove Video card. Reboot. Okay, a few beeps from the speaker. "Your video card isn't working. Get another." Quick trip to best buy. Ditch the pny thing get an ATI 1300 pcie i think it is. Back home. New card in. Power on.

Okay, we have a screen again. Missed the BIOS. Windows XP, what do you want? Safe mode, Safe mode nw, Last known, Normal Windows? Who the heck knows. Normal windows. Begins, recycles. Back to Windows XP, what do you want. Okay, how about last known config. Begins, recycles. Back to Windows XP, what do you want? Okay, how about Safe mode. Begins, console mode, lots of things trying to load, hangs at AGP400 something or other. (Incidentally, that's probably the same place it hung on the old system from whence this came). Shutdown. Reboot. Nothing. No beeps. No video.

Repeat what ASUS rep had me do. Eventually back to power on, no beeps.

ASUS tech back on phone.

Battery out. Memory out. Video card out. Jumper 1,2 move to 2,3 for 20 seconds. Battery in. Power on.

Long never ending beep. Okay, that could be your processor or mobo contacting case????? How did I get here???? Processor out. Power on. No beeps, just a quiet power supply fan. Great. Out of the case. Battery out and jumper thing a couple times for good measure. Processor in, mobo out of case. Power on. Nice quiet fan. No beeps.

MOBO fried? How? How does a brand new system disintegrate in less than 3 hours? More importantly, what the heck is causing this to happen for when I get the replacement MOBO?

Best part is this happens on day 30 something after mobo order, so out of the RMA on mwave.com window and probably for the CPU, memory and everything else except the power supply.

[jlreich]

Hi johnnysocko and welcome to the PcGuide forums.

First if you want to keep your currant install of windows you will need to do a "repair" installation and reactivate per this link (http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm) . Windows doesn't like to wake up in a new system and it is normal for it to do what you said it did in this situation. Or you will need to do a fresh install from scratch. It is also best if you don't try boot up windows until the repair installation is complete.

Since you are having similar problems with the new system I would look at your electrical outlet. I would test it with a multimeter to make sure it putting out the correct voltage. Maybe test the system on a different outlet.

If you are using a surge protector try it without it. The surge protector may have gone bad. Of you are not using a surge protector try it with one.

Also when you removed the CPU did you put on fresh thermal grease? You must do that. If you don't the CPU could overheat very quickly and the system will shut down to protect the CPU, and may give a warning sound. Get some Arctic Silver (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835100007) and follow these (http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm) instructions.

Hope that helps.

[saphalline]

Man, Asus' tech support has really gone down hill! :eek: That's the most convoluted series of diagnostic steps I've seen in a long time.

First of all, ditto on what jlreich said - you shouldn't do that to Windows. A repair installation should have come first, and Asus should have realized this at some point since... ummm... you're calling them about a new mobo!! Morons. :rolleyes: And on that note, if you ever want to play 3D games on that thing, you will have to reinstall Windows! That's the way I do it, and my games have never crashed because of my system (games only crash on my computer because of a game bug). You will also need to have the latest drivers for your hardware handy when you reinstall.

Secondly, replacing the CMOS battery would have been my first suggestion, followed by a barebones boot. When building a new system, it's always best to start with the basics - ie, no drives. That way you know up-front if there's a problem with say, the vid card! And considering the confusing diag path that the Asus tech made you take, I'm not convinced that your first vid card was bad.

Thirdly, what PSU do you have? Saying "500W Power supply" is like me describing my car as "brown"! That tells us jack sh*t about your PSU and whether or not you got a high quality one or a crappy one bundled with your case. A crappy PSU can have just as much of an effect on frying your mobo as a power surge! It's important to note that I consider the two most important components in a computer to be the mobo & PSU. If either one of these is sh*t, the whole computer is sh*t, IMO.

So where do you stand now? What do you have and what are your options?

[johnnysocko]

The PSU is top of the line.

Ultra Xfinity Flex Force. What do I know? It had five stars. Or was it four?

The mobo is on the way back to mwave for replacement. I'll be giving this a go yet again in who knows how many days.

Thermal grease, huh? Okay, I'll be getting some of that in the meantime for round 2.

I guess I would never try to build a car from pistons rings etc. So, why did I put myself through this agony again? The last time I built a PC P2 was still stylin and I don't recall this much aggravation. I had quite a few working components to start with in this case and expected a much smoother ride.

You all have me curious how I'm to repair this XP without a working system. Are you saying this drive and everything on it is screwed if I intend to make it my primary drive on this new system?

[jlreich]

You all have me curious how I'm to repair this XP without a working system. Are you saying this drive and everything on it is screwed if I intend to make it my primary drive on this new system?
To do the repair install you need to boot from a windows CD, preferably before you attempt to boot from the hard drive, then as outlined in the link I gave you choose to do a repair install. That will setup windows to work on that system. Make sure you read the instructions on the link I gave before attempting. ;)

As far as the aggravation goes I agree with Saphalline, I think your biggest problems started with Asus's tech support, and I agree the first video card is most likely just fine. What was probably a minor problem became a mess after the helpful folks at Asus. :(

Let us know how things get on after you get the new mobo back. And yes make sure you apply some thermal grease after you clean off the old thermal pad when you install the CPU next time per the instructions in the link I gave you.

[azzey]

To repair Windows XP, you insert the installation disk, and follow the instructions to do a repair installation (press 'r'??).

Your data will be fine with a repair installation. My suggestion is to repair, and when your OS is working, backup your data. Once you have everything you need, proceed to reinstall Windows with the install disc.

I once called Asus tech support... I'd have to say that they're officially on my probation list for the time being. And I agree with saphalline, they have been going downhill lately. Remember what happened with Budfred, Saph? That's not even the top of what I've been hearing from others. I really like some of their products (I'm considering an Asus notebook for this summer) but IMO, a good company with bad tech support is equal to a bad compand. Period. If I need help with something (usually only if I need an RMA or something like that), I don't want to sit and wait for 30 minutes to finally get a human on the other end, who tells me to 'take the processor out of the system and see what happens'. DUH! It's not going to do anything spectacular... All in all, if Asus cares about my business (which is a lot, I buy tons of components for various people), they'll have to clean up their act. That was an excellent rant, by the way http://www.pcguide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Let us know when you get the replacement board, johnnysocko, and we'll lend you our knowledge.

EDIT: You beat me to it, jlreich!!!!!! http://www.pcguide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Sylvander]

"You all have me curious how I'm to repair this XP without a working system"
Quite!
When you first began, the PC got through POST, and you'd have been ok had you ran a repair at that point.
But you went down the wrong route and ended up in a bad place.
Now your PC won't complete the POST, so it never gets to the later stage of loading Windows...or even booting from a bootable floppy or CD.

Why is it that it now won't complete the POST?
I'm guessing it's because you have changed the arrangement of connected hardware [video card, RAM etc], but you are using the default BIOS configuration settings that match the old hardware arrangement.
So you need to put the hardware back as it was so the defaults will make the hardware work.

If that gets the PC through POST [and gets to the point of booting from a drive] you can then "repair" Windows BEFORE allowing it to load.

[saphalline]

Can you afford another hard drive at this point? Hard drives are pretty cheap, especially if you get one on sale or with rebates at a brick-and-mortar store. Otherwise Newegg has 160GB SATA drives for less than $100 these days. I would suggest that as both a back-up plan and for the increased hard drive performance. If the hard drive you have now is more than 3 years old, a modern SATA hard drive will knock your socks off! :eek:

Try a repair on Windows just to get things working right now and to get a back-up of your data. But again, don't connect any drives to your new mobo until you can get the system to POST and get inside the BIOS to make changes. Once this is done, you know the system works on a fundamental level and you can move on to OS problems. The way Asus had you attacking the whole situation at once was just stupid on their part. You have to make sure your core components are working on a basic level before you can get Windows to boot!

[johnnysocko]

Can I afford a HD? lol. Sure. I'm affording all these things I never intended to purchase here. However, kind of defeats one of my primary goals which was to bypass the format/reinstall/cry later as I discovered all the things I never expected to wipe out process.

I didn't notice the RAID feature of the Asus board till after I bought it, and if I ever get it up and running I intend to look into taking advantage of it. Why wait? I don't know. I've got a boatload on my todo list that doesn't include this computer and would like to get back to them...and this was all before the dumptruck totalled my wife's car on thursday.

In my ni-e-va-tee I thought Windows XP was supposed to be making all this hardware OS plug n play crapola so I swap in n out whatever I want whenever I want. Seems nothing could be further from the truth, as they say.

[johnnysocko]

Oh yeah, and you folks have been great. Thanks for all the tips.

[mjc]

In my ni-e-va-tee I thought Windows XP was supposed to be making all this hardware OS plug n play crapola so I swap in n out whatever I want whenever I want. Seems nothing could be further from the truth, as they say.

True XP does have the best PnP support of any Windows version around...

but...(yeah, you knew this was coming)

due to several conflicting ideas it is about worthless, except on a first install basis.

Between the activation needed to let the stupid OS keep working and the fact that XP doesn't ever seem to want to let go of old hardware (except if you manually unistall it (show Hidden Devices in DM), PnP is still somewhat of a nightmare.

The activation process involves what to me looks like some sort of black magic sequence of what is/isn't allowed, how many, how often and the phase of the moon...this is coupled witht he fact that NT based OS have traditionally had a tough time with major hardware switches (try getting a 2k install to work again after swapping to a mobo with a different chipset/graphics card).

The fix, usually, is a repair install of the OS. With a minimal load of hardware...just drives, video and RAM). Once that is working, then start adding in the other items...like modem/network card (of course if you happen to have an onboard NIC, then it needs to get installed the first time around), printer/scanner/etc. I often like to wait on the sound card until this stage (unless it is onboard), too. Just install one item at a time...don't bother closing up the case and make sure you have driver disks handy.

Also, there are times, especially if there isn't much (or already have a good, recent backup) data, that it is easier in the long run to wipe it all out and do a clean install. This is about the only time I really consider starting over instead of trying to fix it...to me it just makes sense--essentially a new system, so it should probably have a fresh install.

There are several advantages to this, one of which, is it can usually hit all the hardware at once and there is no possibility of some old driver hanging around to throw a wrench in the works.

Like, Saph, I am a big proponent of a very minimal boot when first building a system...yeah, it can be a real PITA having to power down and pop something into the case, but often times that is a lot less annoying than trying to TS a problem later when everything DOESN'T play nice together. There have been times when I would do one stick of RAM at a time.

On this particular board, I would leave any of its advanced features alone until a basic working system was achieved.

[johnnysocko]

Wow, pc is still down. Haven't looked at it since the last post...but, the underdeck shed is finally complete, and so now...it's time. Here we go again.

Stupid me didn't bookmark these forums...golly what a time finding this thread! I'd say it took about 2 hours of patient google-in. The thermal grease keyword finally did the trick at about search results page 18!

Hopefully the reassemble won't take as long as finding this forum.

Wish me luck...

[mjc]

Ctrl-d is your friend...:D.

OK. Keep us posted.

[johnnysocko]

<<When building a new system, it's always best to start with the basics - ie, no drives. That way you know up-front if there's a problem with say, the vid card!>>

Okay, Saph, I'm taking this advice, but I'm dense and quite a bit gunshy now. So, I'm going to attach the mobo into the case, attach one memory stick, artic silver up the cpu and heatsink, video card, keyboard, and power it up? No hard drive, or cd rom, and I assume no floppy either. Correct so far?

Power on...and everthing is going to work just fine? Is that the plan? Then, I'll set the clock time and report back here?

If everything goes well...then what? Onto the windows repair?

[saphalline]

So, I'm going to attach the mobo into the case, attach one memory stick, artic silver up the cpu and heatsink, video card, keyboard, and power it up? No hard drive, or cd rom, and I assume no floppy either. Correct so far?Yes, this is what's called a "barebones boot". No drives involved, only one stick of RAM, bare minimum components connected.

If it works right away, get into the BIOS and tweak it. Then save & exit, reboot, go back into the BIOS, and make sure your changes were saved. If it passes this, add another stick of RAM. If it still works, add the mouse and floppy drive (if you have a floppy). If it still works, add your primary optical drive. If it still works, add your primary hard drive and attempt to repair Windows. The point is to add one component at a time until one of two things happens: you're done, or it doesn't work. This is how you keep track of working components and non-working components.

Obviously, if you run into any problems, report back.

[johnnysocko]

why am i suffering through this. connections all ready for the barebone boot...things are so tiny and my vision is shot from age and coding. in the end, my old case had this short base so i got a cheapo from compusa to support the whole mobo with screws. just to be difficult the cheapo has this 2 split power led line where the mobo wants a 3 seater. the cpu heat sink snapped in the first time everything looks great. power, green led on mobo lights up, everything else says dead. power reset does nothing. close the case up, could the stupid thing need to be closed? still dead. dead dead dead. what the fruck. green led on mobo and a flash of lights on the keyboard, that's all she wrote. arrgh.

[johnnysocko]

i'm an idiot. eyesight is bad. plugged the power sw lead onto the right jumper and we have liftoff. been into the bios, set & saved the time. afraid to shut 'er down at this point. thinking about proceeding with one memory stick and adding the other last. next stop the old floppy mouse. thanks again.

[mjc]

Don't feel bad...those things are damned hard to see...and sometimes even worse to work with once the board is inside the case.

[johnnysocko]

Thanks to all for the help - took a couple days but we're back online.

A couple setbacks along the way, and I can't help but thank you for the advice of approaching one module at a time. It works.

In the end, I'm out one memory module and one network card. Inserting either causes a failure to boot, and that's enough for me to consider them dead. Hopefully, memorysuppliers will replace the dimm.

Now I'm thinking about trying to take the old pieces and through this same process of elimination resurrect a better computer for the kids in the basement. I assume I need to start with the BIOS on the MOBO to some virgin reset set? If so, how does one go about achieving that? Was that the battery removal jumper attaching exercise ASUS was having me go through?

Thanks again for all the advice.