2nd Build

[NeWbiE :-)]

I'm in the Early stages of my 2nd build which for me consists of: Deciding a budget, declaring what i want from this machine, and focusing on whats important.

For my first build I learned the ropes myself and bought a couple things with the little knowledge i had. I then came here got a ton of advice from Saph and many more of you guys. One thing i bought with my own knowledge was a case i replaced about 3 weeks after the build. Then i ignored some advice i got. I bought a 5800rpm maxtor hd :rolleyes: moron :rolleyes: and that crashed about 2 months into its life. Saph recommended at least a 3200+ if i were going the AMD 64 way, which i was. I felt i could save some cash and decided to go with a 2800+ :rolleyes: Hasn't completly sucked but everytime i try to fraps, or edit some video clips for fun, i think, how about the 3200. :(

So far my main concern is i've heard of a new chip? I've read a couple times around here there is a new CPU being released by INTEL. Is there a timetable on this? And how will this affect me?, is it a chip that will affect me in a state of being a new socket, and something i may want to buy. Or will it affect me in a way that it will decrease the price of the CPU's I may be interested in?

I'm short on time so i'll have to end this here but hopefully I'll have some more questions tonight. Thanks for the help in advance, also if anyone has a link about this new CPU, i'd appreciate it.

[jlreich]

Yes wait. Both Intel and AMD are releasing new CPU's and sockets in the next month or so. So either go with the new stuff or save cash on the older stuff when the prices drop. ;)

[saphalline]

Intel is releasing a revolution - an entirely new angle for designing CPU's on their end. It's gonna be awesome! :D AMD is doing fine right now with their K8-based CPU's, so their change to DDR2 support is more of a tweak than a revolution. But either way, the new stuff is going to be good, and the old stuff will drop in price. It's up to you which way you want to go in another 2 months. Budget may be a factor if you want to stay on the low end, but it's difficult to ignore the lure of dual-core...

Things you want: modern chipset, SATA 300 hard drive, PCIe x16 vid card, 450W+ ATX 12V 2.0 PSU, 1GB+ RAM, dual-layer DVD burner, and possibly a dual-core CPU.

Things you don't want: SATA 150, IDE hard drives, AGP vid card, cheap/older PSU, single-layer DVD burner or CD-RW/DVD combo drive, Socket 754 CPU's.

[NeWbiE :-)]

Alright well, are their any price estimates for the new processor? If this Intel thing is going to be a big hit, then i dont want to miss out. LOL. I'm definetly not going to cheap out even if it means waiting a little longer to secure funds. As of right now, I was looking around the $1,000 range, keeping in mind ill be carrying over monitor, dvd+/- drive, sound card, speakers, keyboard & mouse. But, i'd be willing to go an extra $300-400 if i can get new products(socket/mb/cpu). Also whats new with video cards? Has SLI become the world? or are people still going solo? I like the GeForce 7900GT. But i dont like the price of 2 of them! lol. Would it be smart to get an SLI board just incase anyway?

And finally. Whats the deal with Windows? How is x64 doing? and whats the news with Vista? (if their still calling it that)



EDIT* HOW DO YOU PEOPLE CHOOSE A CASE!!! My lord theres about 10 million, I've been reading reviews up the butt and its impossible. If anyone could recommend anything. Maybe just a dependable manuf. And how are those Acrylics? They look nice, any common problems?

[paul_]

For a case, it depends on what you're looking for. If you will be hauling your rig to LAN parties, an aluminum case is advisable, as it is waaay lighter than steel. Then you choose a lights color. My thermaltake tsunami came with blue LED fans, so I got blue CCFLs and other blue lighted fans. Or, maybe you don't want to turn on your computer and go WHOA! LIGHTS!!! In that case, do not get a case with a side panel window. If you want USB/FireWire ports on the top, find one with them. And lastly, pick one that fits your style. If you like the "sleeper" style of computer, buy a non-chalant case. If you want to attract attention (which any LANner does), then buy a SICK case and show off the G00D$. I used to like the sleeper rigs, but for my first build I went all-out and I was hooked on the ricer computer :D For a good, cool-looking case, one can't go wrong with a Thermaltake. If you prefer the latter, then any old generic case will do the trick.

Windows x64 is fine, but driver support is...not. I reccomend waiting on that, unless you plan to get more than 3 GB of RAM, which would be about $300 out of your budget, so =bad. Stick with normal XP.

SLI is not the norm by any standard, but a tool for those who have deeper pockets than for a single 7900GTX. If you can wangle a 7900GT, then by all means GET IT. A good graphics card is the most important thing for a gaming system these days.

Hope this helps! Anything else, just post back.

-Paul

[jlreich]

SLI is not the norm by any standard, but a tool for those who have deeper pockets than for a single 7900GTX. If you can wangle a 7900GT, then by all means GET IT. A good graphics card is the most important thing for a gaming system these days.
Just to add a little to this. If you want go ahead and get an SLI board they are not really much more expensive than non SLI boards. Some boards will be more expensive but you can find a good SLI board for a decent price, so if you want to be ready in case you do decide to go SLI someday it's not really any problem.

But if it came down to the budget running low I would opt for a regular board long before I would skimp on anything else.

Yeah cases can be a PIA to choose with so many options out there. I have been wanting this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129154) for a while now. It was on sale last weekend for $117 with free shipping and I didn't have the cash. :( I just love the removable HDD bays. :D The local CompUSA wants $170 +tax for it. :eek:

[saphalline]

That's an awesome case! I like the fact that the rubber grommets for the hard drives aren't made of the stiff kind of rubber - they're nice and squishy, for the ultimate in vibrational silence! :D

Other cases, hmmm...

Antec Super LANBOY (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129145)

Cooler Master (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119042) CM Stacker (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119039)

Cooler Master Stacker 830 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119103)

Thermaltake (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811133132) Tsunami (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811133133)

Chenming CMU-AL-602-BKW (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811125448)

Chenming CMU-AL-602-SL-W (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811125449)

Just a few to get you started. ;) They're not all cheap, but they do all have my seal of approval as far as cooling and quality goes. If you want to add some flair to any of these, Xoxide (www.xoxide.com) is a website you should surf for a while...

Liquid Neon Cathode light (http://www.xoxide.com/12linespcoca.html)

Cooler Master blue LED fans 6-pack (http://www.xoxide.com/cooler-master-r4-l8s-18sb.html)

EL Wire 5ft blue (http://www.xoxide.com/5ftblueelwire.html)

Sunbeam LAN Party Bag case travel strap (http://www.xoxide.com/sunbeam-lan-party-bag-black.html)

Thermaltake iBox storage box bay adapter black (http://www.xoxide.com/thermaltake-ibox-black.html)

Thermaltake X-Ray bay adapter (http://www.xoxide.com/xray1.html)

AeroCool CoolWatch (http://www.xoxide.com/aerocool-coolwatch-black.html)

80mm fan grilles (http://www.xoxide.com/80mmgrills.html)

[jlreich]

That's an awesome case! I like the fact that the rubber grommets for the hard drives aren't made of the stiff kind of rubber - they're nice and squishy, for the ultimate in vibrational silence! :D
Cool I never noticed the HDD grommets.

I was actually looking for full tower case but could only find one that had removable HDD bays and that one looked king of cheap. I really want removable HDD bays. It seems I am always removing the HDD's for some reason. In my current case I actually have to remove my video card to get to one of my HDD's or mess with the cables. :(

But I do really like that Antec, and it helps CompUSA had it in stock so I could go and actually mess with it a little. It is a very nice case.

[paul_]

My Tsunami has the same thing; Squishy rubber HDD grommets, Removable HDD rack, awesome, and I do mean AWESOME airflow (especially with the floppy bays uncovered), the works. Comes with a few decent fans, too. I got it on sale for $95 and $10 shipping, methinks. It has served me well, especially since I haven't needed to take out my PSU :D

Good luck with your build, eventually. AMD POWER!:D

-P

[NeWbiE :-)]

Hey guys i appreciate all the advice i have a good idea what i want to do now, depending on how appealing and expensive these new cpus are. As i said i have a month or so before i start buying and wanted to pick up on a few new things. My first build was very minimal. I got what i needed to get me into the gaming world. Now i was hoping to pick up on the things I ignored the first time around. So i'm wondering if you guys have any links i can read up on to learn some of the following things. Raid configuration. I had read a couple small bits about what raid is. And it just always left me wondering. Also what i would need to consider OC'ing. I wouldn't think you could just OC your everyday pc. So when i ask what i would "NEED" i mean, is advanced cooling needed? higher quality ram? a better mobo? I guess thats it for now. I'll try to get some learning in before the second build ;) Thanks again for everything.

[NeWbiE :-)]

Another question in regards to the Athlon 64x2's.. I notice the Toledo has 2x 1mb L2 Cache and the Manchester has only 2x 512kb L2 Cache. How big of a differance will this make? If i were buying right now my choice would be

Manchester 3800+ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103562)

but after seeing the L2 Cache i was wondering would this be more worth it.

Toledo 4400+ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103546)

The price of the Toledo is higher then i would like, but i dont want to be in the situation im in now, buying the bottom of the x2 line processor to save some cash.

I saw a review on the Toledo that mentioned this.

"Other Thoughts: If you are running Windows XP, make sure to search...and I do mean look for it because they don't broadcast this fix...but look for the dual core hotfix. If you are experiancing less than optimal usage w/ the Dual Cores, this fix will probably fix it. W/O the fix both cores don't run as they should. I don't know why they didn't make this fix more public."

Whats the deal with that?

[NeWbiE :-)]

Sorry i keep blanking out when im writing my posts then remember a single question and come post it lol. But Are there any plans for raptor HDD to come out in SATA 300 form? On newegg i only see SATA 150. :confused:

[saphalline]

RAID can get very complex very quickly, but the two most common desktop levels are 0 and 1. You can do a search for RAID to get some info, but I don't know of any outside the forums that contain modern info about it. What do you know about RAID? What do want to know? Just ask it here.

OC'ing does indeed require certain models of hardware. A certain mobo, better quality RAM, a different HSF unit for the CPU, etc. How much OC'ing are you planning on doing? Can you afford new hardware if anything goes wrong?

Ah yes, the Toledo vs Manchester debate. :rolleyes: Technically speaking, the extra L2 cache does help. But it isn't as important on the K8 microarchitecture as say on the NetBurst microarchitecture. The core speed matters more than the L2 cache. If you want to go for broke, get Toledo. It will probably come down a lot in price once AM2 is released, so it is still a consideration. However, I'd rather have Manchester than a single-core CPU these days.

Western Digital claims SATA 300 would not improve performance greatly over what the Raptors can already do. There's no denying that their performance is impressive, so perhaps WD knows what they're talking about. In the more common 7200rpm arena, SATA 300's features do make for a more efficient and well-rounded hard drive experience. It looks to me like a classic battle of speed vs efficiency. Only time will tell, but I don't think WD can keep the Raptors away from SATA 300 forever.

[paul_]

I haven't experienced the Manchester, but GOD is my Toledo fast! I have my 4400+ running to compete with an FX-60, and it is cooled by a Zalman 9500. It idles at 27C and will peak at 52C running 2 prime95s and windows media player. it absolutely roars:D

RAID has been proven to actually slow high-end gaming computers down, so I would consider a 37.5G Raptor for the OS and a 150 Raptor for the data instead. Less to go wrong, too.

-P

[NeWbiE :-)]

Well, actually for the OC'ing after i thought about it... i figured it really wouldn't be worth the risk. I cant imagine it being a HUGE boost in speed and isnt really worth blowing 400 bucks on another cpu or video card. As for the cpu, i think im willing to open the wallet and go with the toledo. The thought of the price possibly going down really helps. Also I never even asked but whats the hottest mobo chipset around right now? Last time, you recommended MSI and it was great so I'd like to stick with that, but obviously if you recommend something differant I'd like to check it out. For specifics obviously the 939 socket, i'd like a possible 4gb of ram, as much usb as possible! lol and its gonna be a mid tower so no micro atx.

As for the HDD would u think there is a huge differance between the raptors and just a SATA 300 drive? And btw whats the best "bang for the buck" on HDD now? For my first build it seemed like you could get a good deal on 160's but now it seems like 300's are the norm?!?!