Any potential problems with this system?

[drdan]

I bought a computer off ebay for my office. It has not arrived yet but wanted to know any opinions about the combination of components. I am having a full retail version of Win 2000 Pro installed before shipping. M810LMR motherboard with SiS730 chipset. 1.2 GHz Athlon processor with 200MHz frontside bus`and "enhanced 3D", 128-bit 3D 4xAGP Video with up to 64mb memory, AC-97 Stereo Duplex sound system, two DIMM slots with 384mb of PC133 memory total (1GB possible), 30GB 7200rpm HD(don't know the brand), 56k fax/modem(with answering machine and caller ID) and a CDRW. Any opinions about potential problems, conflicts or bottlenecks in the system. I will be using it for Medisoft medical billing software and managing a couple of websites. I will be on a wireless DSL system in my office. That card will still need to be installed. I am assuming it will be somewhat faster than my 566MHz emachine. ESPECIALLY any incompatibilty with Windows or Medisoft.

[This message has been edited by drdan (edited 06-19-2001).]

[tjaymadison]

You can check the HW components against this list (http://www.microsoft.com/hcl/).


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"I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
-- Charles Babbage, mathematician, computer pioneer, analytical engine designer (1791-1871)
-- (Question: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?')

"Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand."
-- Homer Simpson

[bassvax]

Aside from checking the link that TJay provided the only thing that I can add is that it looks like this is a PC Chips mobo with integrated sound and audio and there is no mention of a network card. Now, for office apps this should be an OK system (I mean all the meat is there...the video will rob your RAM of memory so don't expect to see 384MB on the memory test or in the Device Manager, but that really shouldn't be big deal. You may be able to set the allotment in the BIOS. I bring it up since I don't much care for PC Chips or the SIS chipset. You may have better luck though. I mention the NIC because nowadays offices seem to like networking...so do back to the PC Chips board...how many slots do you have for expansion cards?

Again, I think it do your office just fine and I hope you got it for a good price. Check out http://www.amptron.com/html/m810lm.html this is probably your board hiding under other nomenclature. Make sure you get adequate cooling for that puppy and that the power supply is adequate as well.

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Tango down!

[BigBlue66]

Hey,

Well, ain't this ironic? I just bought a system with the same motherboard and chipset as referenced above. I was on here two weeks ago asking for opinions, too!

Anyhoo, have mine up and running. The video, sound and modem are all integrated on the motherboard, but can all be disabled in the BIOS if necessary.

Make sure the Athalon has good cooling. That's the maximum size processor that you can put on that motherboard, but like you said, it will take up to 1 gig of 100 or 133mhz SDRAM. You should have two dimm slots that will support 512mb each. You should also have two free PCI slots.

The integrated components appear to be perfectly adequate at this point.

As for 2000 and Medisoft billing software compatibility issues, I cannot relate.

Good luck and have fun.

Cheers,

Big Blue 66




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Woe is me.

[AwARe]

Hello drdan,

Have to agree pretty much with what bass stated earlier......
He seems to have hit it on the head http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif
I have an older PC-Chips/SiS board with all the components built in etc....
(Probably a direct predecessor to the board in that comp you're getting)
Id clasify it as "adaquate" but definately not impressive by any means....

Mine hasn't really caused me all that many headaches, so thats a "Big +",
(The guy that "gave it to me" had alot of problems with it though, thats how I got it free)

For office aplications, it'll probably do fine......
Hope you got it for a good price........Good Luck!

Extra Note: You're supposed to come here and ask "before" you buy not after http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif
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What I meant by what I said is hopefully less confusing then the contemplation of the question that led to the confusion in the 1st place.......

[This message has been edited by AwARe (edited 06-19-2001).]

[drdan]

Good point AwARE. I was already feeling a little foolish about buying it and THEN asking if it would work. I'm pretty new at computers and the internet and was very new at ebay. The price seemed very low for the system(it wasn't) so I put in a bid for the heck of it and damn if I didn't get it. Anyway I wasn't too worried about it since I mainly wanted it to get on the net, check email and manage my websites while at work. Now it looks like we may need to use it or a similar sytem for our office software as well. AT the time I bid I wasn't even aware that there COULD be compatibilty issues and would not have thought to ask.

Anyway, this motherboard apparently is the PC Chips M810LMR board. Neither it or the Amptron M810 lr is listed on the compatibilty list for windows which I take as a bad sign. I don't really understand a lot of what bass said but from what I did understand I have two main questions.
1) What do you mean by the video robbing memory? How does that work and what will it mean to me?
2)What "headaches" have people had with the board and how would I know if I'm having them. In other words how could I tell if problems I may have are coming from the motherboard? Could the motherboard be replaced, would it be compatible with the other hardware and how expensive would that be?

After upgrading from 128 to 384 memory and from 5400 to 7200 HD and adding shipping I paid right at $600 for the system. The card apparently has two expansion slots if I'm looking at the specs right. I believe a lot of the built in stuff can be disabled if you want to use a different card. I'm already talking over my own head here so I'll stop before my ignorance is completely exposed.

[This message has been edited by drdan (edited 06-20-2001).]

[bassvax]

DrDan...I personally have found the a problem on the PC Chips board in my kids' pc is that the silk-screened labeling does not match with the manual. This being important as there are several jumper modifications to be made if I would want to use the Slot 1 for moving to a PII or PIII as this board offers the socket 370 and slot 1 (not at the same time thoug). The return/failure rate of PC Chips more is one of the highest in the industry. Several IT professionals have solved their pc woes by replacing the board with diff brand. I was basically clueless when the kids' pc was purchased. Having all the integrated peripherals with only one PCI slot and on-board AGP, BUT no AGP slot for video card expansion. On a good note I was able to successfully flash the BIOS (through DOS as there is no flash utility). If you would like to view a few specific problems I suggest using www.google.com (http://www.google.com) and the key words "PC Chips problems". The SIS chip USB controller on the kids' board was incompatible with Win 98...Once I got the patch it worked for Win 98SE. The general consensus of PC Chips boards are that they are made cheap with cheap components resulting in higher fault rates.

As for your price and mobo...I say again that you should have no problems with what you intend to do with it. I see where it does have an integrated network interface. As for the RAM...integrated (on-board) video utilizes your RAM for video memory as opposed to the older video memory chips on the board and the newer video cards having their own memory (and in some cases, their own processor). With that much RAM you should have no problem assigning the video memory a sizable amount (8-64MB).

For now, let's see how the system works for you and then discuss options as to whether you can get the board fixed/replaced via the vendor (if the need arises). A decent, new mobo can be had for under $150. Get the system, allow a couple of days burn-in (let the puppy work non-stop), problems with the board should manifest during this period. I would check the power supply and cooling arrangement when you get it and even before you fire it up (as long as opening the case doesn't void any warranty you may get). Use the google search engine to look for a good motherboard monitor to watch you CPU temps.

Most of what I have mentioned regarding the PC Chips board is based on my connections with IT professionals and a bit of my own experience. Good Luck and at this point I would not sweat the board until you see problems.

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Tango down!

[hiredgoonz]

So the incorrect mobo markings are common w/PCChips? I thought I was just unlucky or had the wrong manual...luckily, when I changed the cpu voltage I got it right (went with the manual rather than the markings) That's funny, well I guess it might not be depending on what happens...

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When all else fails, read the instructions.

[AwARe]

drdan,

The problems that I have had with this board, have mostly been related to upgrading.......

As bass has mentioned his board has AGP video, but no AGP slot, my board suffers from the same misfortune. It also has a limited number of PCI slots which is also a Big Minus. The onboard video using up the small amount of Ram I have installed, was a big problem for me, and not having an AGP slot for a new card and very limited number of PCI slots didnt do much for my happiness. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif..... It shouldnt be that much of a problem for you with over 300mb of Ram, and the onboard video shouldn't need to be upgraded for "most" office type applications.

To directly answer your question about the video stealing the ram, the onboard video card doesnt have any of its own memory, and it uses your Ram for video memory. There is a setting in the BIOS where you can specify how much Ram you want to allocate for video memory.

My particular board has 3 PCI slots, and I didnt recieve the components needed to utilize the onboard NIC (Network Interface Card, in case you didnt know http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif ). I have 2 NIC's in this machine, and my replacement video card in the other slot which limits my ability to upgrade the sound card if I wanted to do that. I would place the onboard sound in the catagory of "it works" and thats about it....

To answer your question about what headaches etc. The person that gave me this board had a problem related to trying to upgrade the CPU, and couldnt get the automatic CPU detection to properly detect the new processor. This was primarily do to not properly following the instructions, as to how to install a new CPU provided by the mfg. I have upgraded the CPU twice with no problems.

All in all this board also appears to me to be pretty sluggish and laggy in the performance area (upgrading the video helped this a bit, and was my primary reason for doing so), but as I have never really done any benchmarking etc, I really dont know for sure, but it sure seems slow to me for the processor thats installed on it. It also gives me the impression that theres alot of heat coming off of it, but Ive never really checked that either. It does however run reasonably stable and it has so far been pretty reliable. (in one particular month it ran for almost 2 weeks without the need for a reboot)

I sure wouldnt recommend anyone buy one of these boards, but since you already have, as we have all stated a few times already, its probably going to work out "OK" for you.........

Most of the problems have been more of annoyances, and not so much major problems.............

Edit: As far as the idea of replacing the Mother Board at a later date, that is entirely posible, but the problem with that is going to be the fact that when you replace the Mother Board, you are also going to need a new video card, sound card, and posibly a modem or a NIC. (Basically half the computer is going to need to be replaced) http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif

As far as the $600 you paid for it, Im sure most of us here could have done much better, but you are getting quite a bit of ram, a CD Recorder 30GB HDD etc. Its not a great deal but I wouldnt feel that bad about it http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

(You spent "a little" extra money and got something a bit less then top of the line equipment, theres alot worse things that can happen in life, don't lose any sleep over it http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif )

Although I could build you a much better comp for $600, Id have a hard time getting a CD Recorder in there for that price........ http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

Good Luck!

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What I meant by what I said is hopefully less confusing then the contemplation of the question that led to the confusion in the 1st place.......

[This message has been edited by AwARe (edited 06-20-2001).]

[hiredgoonz]

Ok, I think everybody may be getting a wee bit carried away here...if you got the system for $600 w/shipping, you did just fine...

1.2Ghz T-Bird $112 (Sharky Extreme)
384MB Ram $90 (Crucial)
30GB 7200 RPM HD $99 (that's generous, couldn't find one for less than $120)
CDRW $99 (generous again)
Modem $20 (assuming it's a cheap winmodem)
Motherboard $50 (for the sake of argument)
Case $50 (for the sake of argument)

That's $520 with a ridiculously low estimate and doesn't factor in Windows 2000 or shipping for any of the components, so I doubt anybody is building better systems for less than $600...

That system will work very well for anything except cutting edge gaming and the built in sound may limit some audio based endeavors, but you did not get taken advantage of, in case you were wondering...

In fact, I challenge ANYONE here to build a "better" system for less than $600...cause I don't think it can be done...hell, I don't think you could build an equivalent system for that price...enjoy your computer...you got a good deal...

And in case anybody decides to try and prove me wrong, I want valid links to parts that were for sale from the time of drdans post until now and no cheapo ram...don't forget shipping, Windows 2000 or a floppy drive http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif




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When all else fails, read the instructions.

[AwARe]

goonz,

If your post has anything to do with what I posted earlier, I dont think you read it good enough haha......and heres why.

Lets use some of "your prices" for the sake of arguement, I dont even know why Im posting this, because "I Think Its You Thats getting carried away" http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif . I never said any of the things it "appears" you are trying to infer I did, and I dont recall anyone else saying it either but here goes.......

Lets say we take "your" $112 Cpu, and "your" $90 Ram (I would only have used 256MB which would have brought the price down a little but whatever, really doesnt matter), I personally bought a 30GB Maxtor drive for $99 but im not about to try to find a link, add in $93 for a GeForce2, $40 for a SB Live! and I dont know where you buy your MoBo's, but mine are closer to $100 then $50, and "your" $50 case (I bet the case this system is coming in is more along the lines of $35), and "your" $20 modem (and with spending a little bit less on the Ram, I could have gotten a better Modem), that comes to "I think $604................NOW!

This is a "Much Better Comp!", but it "Doesnt have a CD Writer", and "This Is Exactly What I Said!"

....and I also remember saying "As far as the $600 you paid for it, Im sure most of us here could have done much better, but you are getting quite a bit of ram, a CD Recorder, 30GB HDD etc. Its not a great deal but I wouldnt feel that bad about it".........now if you want me to waste my time doing it, Im just about 100% sure I could build that PC-Chips system for $500 or less.......So my question to you is......whats your point? http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

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What I meant by what I said is hopefully less confusing then the contemplation of the question that led to the confusion in the 1st place.......

[This message has been edited by AwARe (edited 06-20-2001).]

[drdan]

Thanks for all the good info. I still can't understand a lot of what you say bass (too many terms I don't have definitions for) but I very much appreciate the intent and I do still get a lot of the gist of what you are saying. Basicly it seems that the system will probably do fine for what I need it for but has a higher chance of failure.

Okay, I have a "before purchase" question now. One of the machines we are running medisoft on is a Pentium I apparently. I don't know how to determine the exact speed but it is about three times as slow as the gateway 333mhz Pentium II we are also using.

I have talked the other owner into replacing the slower machine because it's eating up too much time when doing data entry. I would like to see it replaced with a 900-1200 mhz machine with at least 10GB HD. 256mb of memory is probably enough, 128 might do. Since I am recommending it and it will hold all our patient records, financial records and tax info I want it to be pretty reliable. All I want is the tower and we will have almost no chance of needing cutting edge sound or video. We have the monitor, keyboard etc. I want to try to keep it under $450(otherwise I have to start the selling job all over and he's pretty cheap). It would need to be able to accept a wireless DSL card for the system we are getting in our building.

What and where would you suggest. I just want a much faster, reliable machine. We would probably run Win 98 (don't know if SE).

[AwARe]

You can check www.pricewatch.com (http://www.pricewatch.com) to get some prices and ideas drdan,

You may be able to use some of the parts from the PI system to help make this upgrade a bit cheaper............any exact specs you can provide, would be helpful in helping you determine if any can be used.....for instance, is the old HDD big enough to keep it and put it in the new system? does it have a video card? (and what kind) or is it built in the board like the PC-Chips comp is? does it have a good working CDRom? etc etc etc

To figure out if it has built in components or not, simply unplug the comp, take off the lid, and see if the monitor and the speakers are hooked into the Mother Board, or if they are plugged into sound and video "cards" that are "plugged into the Mother Board". These may very well be reusable (if they arent part of the Mother Board) and will greatly reduce your cost...........

If you want to narrow it down a bit more after you get some ideas, be glad to help......right now I need to sleep http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

goonz,

I just checked and the GeForce2 400 64MB is now "$67" which has just lowered the price of that system almost $30 http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Some other time if I have nothing else to do, I'll teach ya how to build that System Im talking about for under $500......but right now I just dont feel like it hehe

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----------------
What I meant by what I said is hopefully less confusing then the contemplation of the question that led to the confusion in the 1st place.......

[This message has been edited by AwARe (edited 06-21-2001).]

[AwARe]

drdan,

Sorry for this "dumb stuff" please disreguard.......

goonz,

I found the Pc-Chips board for $84 (Probably could find it even cheaper I really didnt even search that hard)....

You still think I couldnt put it together for under $500?

I gave it a shot this morning, and put together that system "including" the CD Writer for $461...........this did not include a modem or Win2k, but modems are cheap (I can buy a good "non winmodem" for about $30-$40), and Id bet that drdan wouldnt mind installing the copy of Win98 that he already has to save $100? or there is also a good chance he will be buying a copy of win2k to be used on other systems at some point anyways...........

Anyways Im done with any more of this foolishness.......The point was for the same or "slightly" more you could get a much better deal..........and a PC-Chips board although adaquate, isnt really all that much of a value....


drdan,

Get a little info about the existing hardware you have avail to you, and I bet we could put a good one together for under $450, at least Id be glad to give it a really good try.......

I built a TBIRD for my sister last month using parts we stold out of an old 166 for around $400 plus shipping.....it's really going to depend alot on what good parts you can dig up out of that older comp......

If it turns out you "don't" have any parts such as video or sound card you can salvage, you can always wait until you get that PC-Chips comp in the mail, see if it works OK for your aplication, and then if you have a good Hard Drive and Cd Player in that old comp, you could build a very similar machine using those old parts for most likely less then or around $300 <- If you wanted to go cheap........

Anyways I need to go to work........

bbl

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What I meant by what I said is hopefully less confusing then the contemplation of the question that led to the confusion in the 1st place.......

[This message has been edited by AwARe (edited 06-21-2001).]

[hiredgoonz]

Wow, 3 responses and you still didn't build the system or "better" for the $600...

In your 1st response you forgot a cd drive of any kind, a floppy, an OS and shipping...

It appeared to me that drdan was being given the impression that he (or someone else) could have done "much better" for the money...

And until I see PROOF otherwise, I say it ain't happening...

I don't want to argue with you aware, but there are a whole lot of "what ifs" in your estimates that don't have anything to do with what drdan bought and is getting...

"IF HE USED 98, IF HE USED OLD PARTS, IF HE DIDN'T HAVE A CDRW, IF HE DIDN'T GO WITH 384 MB RAM"

HE DID GET A GOOD DEAL, END OF DEBATE...

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When all else fails, read the instructions.

[drdan]

Again, thanks for all the good info AwARe. None of the doctors in the office really have any inclination to build a system even if if means getting a little less and/or paying a little more. My limit is popping in some more memory and that is way more than the other two are willing to do. I really just want a fairly plain system that will speed up data entry considerably and be stable with Win98 or Win2000. The CD Rom that is in the old one would probably work fine but we would have to take both computers some place and have it switched out. Just our time alone is more than the cost of a new one. One misuderstanding that arose in all this was that Win 2000 was include in the package I bought. I bought that seperately on ebay (144 for full boxed retail). I guess what I want is info on whole systems that would do what I need, be reliable and not be too expensive. For instance, considering those criteria, would I be better off with a 700-800mhz Pentium III system than a 1000-1200 athlon based system? Could I likely find a system like that for the price I have to work with? This computer will be used almost entirely for data entry by staff. It is looked on pretty much like a fax machine or a stapler. We want it to work, to cut down how much we are paying for data entry and not breakdown or have problems we have to think about.

[BigBlue66]

DrDan,

I am not posting to get into the debate, but I will tell you that if you check out http://www.computersurplusoutlet.com, you will find some excellent deals.

I just bought a machine from them for $349.00 plus I paid a little extra for quick shipping. (I wanted it and I wanted it now) It's an Amptron: 750mhz Duron, 256mb PC100 SDRAM, 52X CD-ROM, floppy, built-in NIC, modem, video and sound, one-year guarantee, etc.. I just added a harddrive and monitor, both of which I already had. I am planning to add more RAM, but that's dirt cheap nowadays. So far, it's been fast and stable. I have the BIOS set to share only 16mb for the onboard video and it seems to do just fine for 2D display. If I were to play some games, I would no doubt bump it up a bit, but I'm not much of a gamer. (My old eyeballs can't follow all that action well enough. :eek http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

Now I see CSO has 1Ghz systems going for around $500, minus a monitor. (I should have waited two weeks before I bought. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/frown.gif)I have purchased many, many components from CSO and they're alright in my book. You can always choose UPS ground shipping, which wouldn't tack too much more on to the price.

Oh and by the way, the BIOS on your machine from Ebay should have temperature measuring built-in for the CPU. That machine should work just fine for you. Don't worry, be happy. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Cheers,

Big Blue 66



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Woe is me.

[hiredgoonz]

That system will do everything you need it to do...but truthfully, you probably wouldn't notice a performance drop if you did go with an 800mhz P3...hardware has outpaced software for a while now and anything faster than 800mhz or so is not going to yield very much performance increase...

In your line of work, the added stability of Windows 2000 will be a huge benefit...except for two times, during which I did something I knew would crash the system, I haven't had a single blue screen or lockup/crash of any kind with Windows 2000.

Office based systems are very different from home systems...built in video and sound, a bane to the home user who likely plays games and uses the system for a wide variety of tasks, are ideal for an office system in order to save cost.

For database purposes, you don't need a fancy video or sound card, so having such is a waste of money. The only advantage would be if you wanted to take the system home after a year and wanted to upgrade it for other uses.

I never meant to start such a huge debacle with my post. I only wanted to correct what I felt/feel was some misinformation about relative cost of parts and systems. Since you bought a whole system, it doesn't really matter what anybody else could build.

My opinion is that you got a very good system for the price. It will accomplish everything you have mentioned (actually it's way more than you need, but it's good insurance for the future)

Anyway, I'm finished discussing it here, it's all beside the point under the circumstances...

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When all else fails, read the instructions.

[AwARe]

drdan,

I was debating earlier if I might be able to recommend you stay with a PIII but I didnt have the time to check all the prices. Truth is although I personally like PIII's you will have to spend about the same for an 800mhz PIII as for a 1.3ghz Athlon, kinda crazy. Blue brought up a very good point about a duron system........Ill look around a little bit tonight (if I get a little time after I get these tires installed on my G/F's car http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif ),and Im sure if some of the other guys get some time they could maybe look a little too? heh.....see what we can figure out for ya

I completely understand about your lack of desire to use the old parts or assemble it yourself...........that exact thought had occurred to me this morning, but it really is the best way to save money. As Blue said there are some cheap "already assembled" systems that may werk out for ya............I didnt check any of those links he posted but it probably be a good idea to check them out.....

In fact if that one you just bought turns out to be "satisfactory", I figured out this morning how to build a complete one with a normal cd player not a burner for about $420.........the burner took it up to $461, and that would be with aditional freight charges, and posibly $30-$40 more if you need a modem.......and thats taking for granted that you can actually get the cpu for $112 as hiredgoonz stated, I never verified that price.....At any rate at the very worst it should be under $500 with a normal CD Reader........

.....but there may be some other better ways to go......

For instance Gateway had a dual PIII 933 with 512MB ram and a 9GB SCSI server last week for $500 woohoo! but they took it off their site due to "Excessive" orders hehe.......wouldnt have been for you but shows ya how an offer can come up one day and gone the next....takes a bit of looking around to get the really good prices.....

Edit: Blue dont worry about "getting in the middle" with "me" hehe just dont come in here telling "everyone" how carried away we're all getting and you and I "will never have that problem" heh http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

I always welcome a different or even in alot of cases a similar viewpoint,
aparently goonz' viewpoint is, he cant get parts as cheap as some of the rest of us lmao.............and its got him a little frustrated hahahaha

I wonder if hes the type to take something like this to heart, and actually get upset about it? heh hope not........Anyways I gotta go find my Sling Shot in case goonz desides to pay me a visit tonight.......bbl

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What I meant by what I said is hopefully less confusing then the contemplation of the question that led to the confusion in the 1st place.......

[This message has been edited by AwARe (edited 06-21-2001).]

[hiredgoonz]

Aware, you keep talking about all these great prices you found, please enlighten me, oh great one, cause without any links or other proof, you can tell me anything you want and I'll still think you're full of it...

And as far as anyone getting carried away, I made one post questioning your pricing and you replied 3 times, and never once actually provided any information to back up what you were saying...

So my offer still stands, you build me a BETTER system, not one with less ram, with shipping costs, with ALL the parts needed and I'll admit you're correct...until then you're all talk...

I'm trying to have this debate on an adult level, but all you seem to do is try to taunt me like you're a little kid, grow up and put your money where your mouth is...

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When all else fails, read the instructions.

[AwARe]

bah goonz,

I gave you all the prices and I checked them first so tell me which one you want me to varify? hehe and Ill do it, otherwise its a bit too much trouble, because when im looking, i click the site see the price and then go to the next site for the next price or etc etc etc, and if I go to a site and assemble a system on that site, even if I did post the link "you" wouldnt be able to go to it because it would be a secure link.........so like I said tell me what you want me to varify "specifically" and I will, if it really even matters...........

Amptron PCCHIPS M810LMR Socket A, Micro-ATX for AMD K7 Athlon/Duron CPUs, Ultra DMA/66/100 MUST MENTION PRICE WATCH - On board 10/100 Ethernet LAN, andandDual USB, AGP video/sound, upto 1.2GHz SDRAM, 2DIMM 2PCI 1AMR, 200MHz M 810LMR -------------------------$ 69

Theres drdan's MoBo for a grand $69

Heres the web site, call em yourself..... http://www.powerstartpc.com/

I got nuttin to prove to you BoBo hehe.........

As I was about to try to post some more links it occured to me......you just want my sources dont you? hahahahaha
j\k'n in case you didnt figure that out.........while on the subject why you so serious all the time?

you in fight club or something?

watch how you answer cause i got my sling shot loaded.......... http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

by the way as you put it "this debate", is nothing of the sort......I was just trying to help drdan, what you're doing I have no idea.....

all you seem to be talking about is why I cant help him, why is that?

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What I meant by what I said is hopefully less confusing then the contemplation of the question that led to the confusion in the 1st place.......

[This message has been edited by AwARe (edited 06-21-2001).]

[hiredgoonz]

The only thing I disputed was the prices and the assertions that "I'm sure most of us here could have done much better" and "Although I could build you a much better comp for $600"

I still don't think either statement is true...I guess if you went with less ram, no cdrw and used parts and software from your last system (all things you've said when listing your bargain-basement, top of the line systems) you could, but that's not exactly what we're talking about here...

As far as buying all the parts and building a system from scratch or buying a complete system and shipping it, I don't see getting the same thing for $600...and even if you could...you're certainly not building a "top of the line" system for $600...

I never said you couldn't help him, but most of your posts are just you rattling off all the wonderful things you could do with $600? That doesn't strike me as particularly helpful...

And what am I trying to do? Let him know that he got a good computer for a good price that will fulfill all the requirements he has for it, part of doing this was pointing out that if you go by the question drdan asked, and not a bunch of other hypothetical scenarios you introduced in order to brag about your computer building prowess, you're not going to build a better system for him for the money he paid...


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When all else fails, read the instructions.

[AwARe]

well whatever goonz,

I honestly dont remember doing all that much rambling about prices until "I found myself trying to defend myself from you" If you will bother to read this thread you will see that the majority of the posts "before you got involved", although they contain "some" mention of pricing are mainly concerned with the "value" of the previously mentioned Pc-Chips Mother Board, and any potential problems or opinions about this kind of Mother Board......

The only mention of prices etc "before" this post that "you made"...... "In fact, I challenge ANYONE here to build a "better" system for less than $600...cause I don't think it can be done...hell, I don't think you could build an equivalent system for that price...enjoy your computer...you got a good deal..."..... were in direct response to drdan's "question" about what did anyone think of what he paid for his comp he just ordered, and then boom all the sudden its a big challenge issued by mr goonz.....If you thought it was "such a good value" then maybe you should have left it at that, and refrained yourself from this "debate" as you call it, and this "challenge" as you have also called it........I honestly doubt drdan really cares if its $50 more or less anyways, other then if he can get it cheaper then hed like to do that, and he doesnt want to waste money, or buy hardware thats not worth what he paid.........

At any rate, I know for a fact I could do much better for the same money, or if youd prefer, I could do the same for much less as well......would take a bit of searching for the best deals "But it could be done!!!" in fact "I already proved it" at least to myself, which is all that I really care about anyways (and of course helping drdan)......with the newly found MoBo price I am "potentially" down to $441 plus shipping which includes "everything" that drdan paid $600 for...........the key to all this is finding someone with a CPU already on that board (which I havent done yet), that has it for the low prices that I have found those components seperately for. Buying the parts from seperate vendors potentially ads $20-$50 to the total cost, but Im still getting close to saving a $100 overall, even "with" multiple vendors, and honestly Im not looking all that hard,........the shipping on that $69 MoBo was $11 to anywhere.........

I know how to get the price down for the simple fact that basically "this is all I deal with". People coming to me all the time wanting a 6ghz comp for $50 and Im left to trying to figure out how to make a slight profit and still get them their comp for $50, and hearing how the guy down the street can do it so if I want the business then I have to do it too.........so Ive gotten pretty good at trimming $10-$20 here and there and getting "the best price"..... "somewhere" on the internet "someone" has those components for $400........now finding it is a different story.........and Im really not all that interested in a "debate" over it, and like I said in the beginning I dont know why I even responded to your "challenge".

......but it really bothered me, after I spent a half hour or so trying to see if I could find a better price, that you just bop in and tell me I dont know what Im talking about.........without having even the slightest clue what prices I may have found.........and then on top of it "You want links and proof" and my question to you at that point was.......at what point did "you" become interested in buying one of those comps? or were you just trying to pick a fight?.........and why is it so hard to believe someone else may have found a lower price or a better value? and why is it "for fun" I tried to see just how cheap I could find those parts and you desided to do your best to take away the fun?

There are also some other places to get all this stuff much cheaper, but to help drdan, Im stuck with places that "he" could purchace components from.....locally theres a posibility I could get it for about $400 (maybe)

At any rate this whole episode with you about this has given me one hell of a headache, and Im hoping that its over now..........because the fun left quite a while back.......

Edit: to your previous post directly.....I guess maybe next time I shouldnt assume that "most of us" can find a better price, usually when I say stuff like that "Im trying to make all of us look good as a group and not "show off" and say what "I can do" but what "we all" can do........perhaps that was a mistake maybe I should say next time "what alot of us can do as long as goonz agrees with it"

1 last thing, and then I think I need to get the hell away from here for at least a little while........I dont know if you were paying attention or not, but I posted earlier about that gateway sys, dual PIII 9GB SCSI HDD 512MB Ram for $500,....It had only 1 processor (933mhz) but it had a $300 ASUS MoBo in it, and this in fact "Really did exist", the offer is still good until 6/30 they got 6500 orders the 1st week and were only expecting 1000 for the entire month "call gateway yourself if you dont believe me cause I have no desire to try to prove it (you need a copy of the ad on the web site "which they have removed" to get that price).......now if that "Deal" is somewhere on this planet, why is it so hard to believe there are more?.............Latez

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What I meant by what I said is hopefully less confusing then the contemplation of the question that led to the confusion in the 1st place.......

Sorry drdan http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

[This message has been edited by AwARe (edited 06-22-2001).]

[drdan]

Well, as acrimonious as this has gotten I have actually learned a great deal. I got in an exchange like this where I felt like I was being attacked for trying to be helpful, in an area I had some expertise. He ended up saying about one of my posts "to quote The Rainmaker" that is "stupid, stupid, stupid". I fired back "to quote Will Smith in Enemy Of The State "You're kind of a jerk, are'nt you". Of course I pretty soon felt stupid, stupid, stupid for making such a remark. One of the things about posting is it feels kind of anonymous, like yelling at other drivers in traffic. So, you end up saying things a lot more harshly than you normally would face to face. But when you READ a post about yourself it feels very personal. Okay, I'll shut up with the philosophizing. Thanks to all of you for your help. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions when I get this first system up and running. One of the reason AwARe is having difficulty including the CDRW is that it wasn't supposed to be included. The title said DVD but the detailed description, which they forgot to change, described a CDRW clearly in two places so they agreed that it would be included.

[This message has been edited by drdan (edited 06-22-2001).]

[BigBlue66]

Hey,

I just had to post to thank y'all for the entertainment. You guys slay me. There's nothing like a good heated discussion now and then to liven things up a bit.

Hey Aware, don't get so damn carried away! Just kidding. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Have a great weekend everybody.

Cheers,

Big Blue 66


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Woe is me.

[AwARe]

hahah http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

maybe "I need to be" carried away, Blue heh

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What I meant by what I said is hopefully less confusing then the contemplation of the question that led to the confusion in the 1st place.......

[drdan]

Well, I got it and it's not DOA. I got this morning, finally, and it powered up and so far seems to be running fine. I can't do much testing or comparing since the only thing on it is Win 2000. It is faster pulling up screens and stuff and Win 2000 has a different feel than Win ME. One pleasant surprise is that the CDRW is a Hewlett Packard instead of some off brand like I expected. So far sound dosen't work but I'm not sure if I even have the small speaker from another system hooked up correctly. Any info on how to hook up or check would be appreciated.

[AwARe]

drdan,

In win9x, if the little speaker icon is in the lower right side of the screen by the clock, then the sound card is working properly. I dont know if win2000 has this same thing or not, I figure it probably does, but I have very little experience with 2k (perhaps I really need to change that soon) The speaker jack on the sound card is alot of times "Green" if its not color coded then it should have the symbol of an arrow "pointing outward from a partial circle" next to the jack itself.......From what I hear and read, setting up a sound card in 2k may not be quite as easy as doing it in win9x, so hopefully you dont have any problems in this area......There are lots of people who would be able to help with that around here, unfortunately Im not one of them heh sorry.....

Glad to hear you got it and it actually runs http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif
Good Luck With It!

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What I meant by what I said is hopefully less confusing then the contemplation of the question that led to the confusion in the 1st place.......

[This message has been edited by AwARe (edited 06-29-2001).]

[drdan]

Nevermind, it was just that it would not run little unpowered speakers off the line out jack like my emachine. I put my compaq monitor with monitor powered speakers on it and it works beautifully. The sound is at least good as my emachines (I know thats not saying much but entirely adequate for the office). Computer seems very smooth and fast but again with only the OS it is hard to compare.