Questions about the use of Virtual Machine

[ErnieK]

I have just install VM Ware virtual Server on my PC and have (most unusual for me :eek: ) and am (at have instllaed win98se onto it) few questions about using it. I am connected here whilst using it at the moment so have managed to set up my internet connection without problems.

1. After being on the net and closing VM down does it erase\delete all files installed onto it? (for example if I got infected would the infection dissapear at close of VM?) At present I am running in VM with out any protection. My PC in normal mode is as normal and fully protected.


2. How do I install software onto it? Programs like Anti-Malware and opera etc. At present I am running in VM with out any protection.

3. Is my main OS protected from anything I do in VM?

Thats all for the moment. ;)

[Sylvander]

A snappy little quote from Win95...
"A virtual machine (VM) is an environment in memory that, from the application’s perspective, looks as if it is a separate computer, complete with all of the resources available on the physical computer that an application needs to run."

And the Wikipedia Definition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_machine).

'Tis all Greek to me. :confused: :(

[Paul Komski]

I don't know about VMware but have used MS Virtual Machine quite a lot. In the MS case the virtual HDD(s) are simply actual files on the main file system. When running an OS on the Virtual Machine there is no way to access the normal file system directly. The only way to share files or have any sort of reciprocal access is via a "virtual LAN using a virtual NIC".

The virtual lan is setup quite simply by enabling file sharing etc, creating shared folders and configuring the network as normal with a workgroup, computer name and so on. So in that sense the VM is in a sandbox but capable of "cross-infection" only via the network just as two disconnected real PCs could cross-infect and access each other.#

On shutting down the virtual machine its hard drive file remains as a file on the hard drive so that you can reboot to it just as you would start up a computer from scratch. That file is not a risk at all, in its own right, until once the VM is running again and reconnected via the virtual LAN that opens up a potential source of contaminationl. With no virtual LAN enabled one operates totally in a sandbox but the sandbox is still there when you reboot to it.

Hope that gives some food for thought.

[ErnieK]

Thanks Paul
After spending all day working in and around it I was not able to do much with it so I have now uninstalled it until I can find out more about it (install software etc).

To have it there without the abillity to install software etc into\onto it is a waste of space. My thoughts were using it to test out various softwares and use VM with different OS's installed for troubleshooting purposes but this is not possible unless I can install\unistall programs.

[Paul Komski]

You could try the 45 day trial of MS VM from http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/virtualpc/default.mspx

Once you setup the VM you install an OS and programs the normal way. The biggest learning curve is in knowing how to switch the hardware to be accessed by the real or the virtual machine. eg when you put in a floppy is it being accessed by the VM or your PC? There are menus and hot keys that you must learn to use to do this switching around and to differentiate say between a three-fingered salute for the VM or the Real PC. Etc, etc. My guess is that VM ware cannot be mega dissimilar.

[Variable]

VM ware is perfect for what you are talking about. Think of it as another OS running in it's own virtual space. It is no different than your OS your running on the main machine. You can load whatever you like into the VM OS. When you close it down you have the option of saving the changes you made or not. If you save the changes the next time you run that VM will be as it was when you closed it down. If you do not save the changes nothing will be saved. You can create VM images of several different OS loads and save them as image files. When you want to test something pull the VM up and load it. Do any testing you would like, if you like the build you can save the changes or simply quit out and the image stays the way it was.

You can run an entire virtual network of machines and have them act independently or as a network. It requires a lot of RAM though. They are great for test beds because you really can't screw it up. You can delete the registry and then simply close it down and not save changes and it will be perfect when you run it again. It is used a lot in schools now. In the server+ class I teach we use it to load the various OS's and keep the image files in a folder for each student to work though labs. It is much better than the old way of having removable hard drives.

[Paul Komski]

VM-ware sounds very similar to MS-VM and the "save changes" for the hdd image is a nice concept. With MS-VM I just keep a copy of hdd image files that I want to be able to reininstate in like manner to keeping image files of real hdd partitions. Time to get your hands dirty Ernie!

Good point about the RAM since if you dont have adequate to share around then your VM is (or VMs are) going to run slow.

[ErnieK]

Thanks guys all I have to do now is figure out how to install software into it after the OS is installed. VMWorkstation allows dragging and dropping between VM and physical OS but I am reluctant to pay for something unless I know I will get full and constant use from it, but it dows not allow trial period. As soon as the VM software is installed and you try to sset up the first VM machine it asks for a key number and without ithis number the software does not work.

I did have VMware server (I have my registration key for this) installed yesterday and spent the day trying ot fugure out how to install software but could find no way of doing so. I will keep trying though.

[ErnieK]

Well I have had success (!?) :p

If I install the VM Ware server (for which I have a key) then install an OS and then UN-install the server and then install VM Player (which is free).

I then drill down to the VM files left behind and open up the Win98 VM I can drag and drop and install from my DVD drive. :D

Covoluted I know but it shows how my mind works.

I will now try and install security software etc.
What I would like to know now is whether after installing this will I be able to save the setup and close down retaining the programs. BUT!! Will I be able to install other software and lose it at close but retain my security software?
Hope I am clear enough with my explanation and desires

My next step is to find out if I am doing it correctly :rolleyes:

[ErnieK]

Well OPERA installed and still there after closing and re-opening.

[Fred_Flintstone]

I will now try and install security software etc.
What I would like to know now is whether after installing this will I be able to save the setup and close down retaining the programs. BUT!! Will I be able to install other software and lose it at close but retain my security software?
Hope I am clear enough with my explanation and desires



Ernie, I know zilch about this subject.. :rolleyes: .. but to pull a few points together from the above posts for clarity.. :D

If you install your security software etc.. and close and save the file.. then that would become part of your OS.
Then you reboot to "play" with it.. and when you close and DON'T save.. you are left with the security s/ware in place ..no?..

If I have understood the above info correctly that is!.. :rolleyes:

[Paul Komski]

The VM should work just like an ordinary installation but usually running in its own window unless a full screen mode is chosen. The main limitations that it has is how it shares the hardware with the real machine. This is configured by the VM software itself and runs as a "layer" between your hardware and any virtual hardware set up for the VM to use. Once you have it running as a VM you access it in no really fundamentally different way to an ordinary PC.

[ErnieK]

PAUL you beat me to it

Fred then that would become part of your OS.
No it does not become part of the (physical) OS.

If you can imagine using a CD similar to Knoppix where the OS is installed onto and run from the CD then you will have an idea of a Virtual Machine.

The difference being that the "image of the 2nd OS" is stored in a folder on your hard drive instead of a CD. Open up this image (using VM software) and you have an OS working WITHIN your normal set-up so that you have two fully working and operational OS's on your desktop at the same time. Pressing a combination of keys on the keyboard selects whether you work in the VM image or on your PC's "physical" installation. Any software installed on this 2nd (VM) OS does not affect your physical OS and vice-versa.
Hope I have explained myself clear enough. (Like mud to me) :rolleyes:

I have discovered that VM Player does not give the choice of removing any installed software at close (unless you uninstall in the normal way which means an eventual bogged down registry and the hassle of having to un-install any and all installations, and from my point of view defeats the purpose of its use for testing) Close down (no choice of save it does this automatically) and re-open = same set-up as at close. Which means that any infections also stay there.

But I will keep plugging away.

[Paul Komski]

It's a real operating system so yes installed programs must be uninstalled or else an image of an earlier state of play restored. Since with MS-VM the file that represents the hard drive can simply be copied somewhere as a "backup" it is easy to copy this back and replace the changed hdd file to undo all change made in the interim. You do this from the real machine or else you need to partition the virtual drive and store image files on another virtual partition in preparation for a restore from within the VM.

I'm not sure that Knoppix is a good example of a comparison since Knoppix can access all of your file systems and does not operate from within a sand-box. The CD is not called a live CD without a reason.

[ErnieK]

Thanks Paul, as you say Knoppix is not a really good example but it gives someone an rough idea of what a VM is.

As for having to uninstall I was under the impression hat if I did not save the changes at close any changes would be lost. At least that is the interprtation I had when I read about VM at first.

[ErnieK]

Well here I am sitting in UBUBNTU Linux within the VM machine. I will now (hopefully) be able to try out Linux and still have my Xp available a teh click of a button without having to reboot. :)

Slow and sluggish at the moment due to not having VMWare tools installed yet, if Linux reacts the same as Win98 this cleared up after this installation. BUT I am having problems getting them installed. I select the TAR file as told to do but it just sits there going nowhere. I think this could be down to my not knowing how to install things in Linux. Swear box empty at the moment so plenty of room for a lot of tries.

[ErnieK]

I am keeping this here even though the OS is Linux but the issue is with a Windows software.
I am having a wee (big) bit of bother :confused:
Below are the instructions for use with VMware

Installation Steps
1. Insert the Ubuntu Linux CD in the CD-ROM drive.
2. Power on the virtual machine to start installing Ubuntu Linux.
3. After the Ubuntu Linux installer copies the files it needs to the virtual disk, it ejects the
installation CD and displays a message saying the computer will restart. If the virtual machine
fails to restart as expected, click the Reset button to restart it.
4. Follow the installation steps as you would for a physical PC.
This is completed without problems.

After installation I start up Ubuntu and enter my user password and can then work in Ubuntu Linux. BUT cannot get VMWare tools to install. The instructions for installing them are written below. Due to my reading liabilities I am having difficulties in understanding them. When I click on the Install VM-Tools it just sits there doing nothing but indicates that it is installing the tools by changing the Install to Stop Installation. I have left it sitting there for 30 minutes just to see if it is just slow.

5. After completing the installation, create a password for the root user.
You need to become root to install VMware Tools. Enter the following command:
sudo -s –H
This has been done. At boot up I have to enter my user name then the next screen asks for my password (which is also the root?) which I supply and then I am into the desktop.

At the password prompt, enter the password for the normal user — the same password you used when you logged on to Ubuntu Linux. You are now logged in as root.

Enter the following command to set the root password:
Passwd
I have not set this as I interprate the instructions to say that I am already in root, and this command only changes the root password for added security where there is more than one user. Do I have that correct?

At the prompt, enter the password you want to use for the root account.
You can now become root at any time using the normal su - command and the root password you just created.

VMware Tools
Be sure to install VMware Tools in your guest operating system. For details, see the manual for your
VMware product or follow the appropriate link in the knowledge base article at www.vmware.com/support/kb/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=340.
Note: You must use the tar installer to install VMware Tools in Ubuntu Linux.

The VM-tools file (when I drill down) is in the fomat of {b]*.tar.gz[/b] Double header .tar and .gz)

When I installed the VM-Tools in WIn98 I had no problems.