Windows? on HP computers

[LadyGrey]

Hi All,
As you know I've been working on donated computers for The ARC here in Fredericksburg VA, getting them to families who really need them. I've come across two HP Pavilions, microATX, both are very similar, 800 MHz Intel,128 MB RAM, very small HDDs 3gig or so, one is on the internet ,the other is not and has no ability to do so on purpose, the one that's on the net has W2K on it, all patches and updates of course, the other has 98SE all known patches and updates. Now after about a month of use these two computers are exhibiting very strange behavior. The one with 98SE and no net access will boot to the Blue HP screen and just stop, nothing else, just stop, not shut down just stop. The other with W2K and net access has been having random freezes of the whole system, can't even three finger salute it, have to shut it down hard and the small HDD that was partitioned has done a very weird thing. The whole drive was prepared with FAT32 then partitioned to 1 and 2 gigs. I have this computer here and the small partition has somehow gotten itself to FAT16, while the larger 2 gig partition is still FAT32. How in the world is that possible? The random freezes show no pattern, the HDD makes no unusual noise before a freeze, just surfing around on the net or running a program, any program, will eventually cause a system freeze. All scans have been done, Adaware, Spybot, AVG, SwatIT. The one on the net runs AVG and Zone Alarm and Spywareblaster, there are no error messages before or after a freeze. I've tried taking out one program at a time with no joy, I finally got to taking out that awful Yahoo tool bar and the whole computer just went crazy. Would only boot to DR DOS. Computer has been opened up and cleaned and run with the door off so I don't think heat is an issue and there really wasn't much dust inside. I'm just at a loss as to what is causing this. Any help will be much appreciated!!
LG;)

[mjc]

Let's tackle the Win98 machine first...

Does it actually get through POST?

Can you get into the BIOS?

Can you get rid of that dam* HP logo (esc, I think)?

It sounds like it is hanging on the drive detection. It could something as simple as needing a new battery or it could be a dead/dying drive--either the HD or an optical. Try pullling the battery and replacing that first, followed by disconnecting the drives to see if it will finish POSTing.

On to the 2k machine....

I can't think of anything that will change the formatting of the drive, except a person. It seems like someone did it deliberately.

Can you boot into Safe Mode?

Have you tried getting in with "Last Known Good"?

Also, if the CPUs in those machines are original, then they both should have 10-29 gig hard drives....Pavilions of that era came with bigger drives than 3 giggers.

[Paul Komski]

The whole drive was prepared with FAT32 then partitioned to 1 and 2 gigsThat is an incorrect sequence. The drive, having first been partitioned, can then have its partitions formatted. If both partitions can be accessed normally and there has been no data loss its hard to see what the problem is. Are you sure both partitions were FAT32 to start with and that, for example, the partition was not reformatted by the Win2K or the DrDOS installation.

It might be of some significance to know which drive has boot.ini on it and which one has the WinNT folder on it and which one has DrDOS on it and how this system is dual-booted.

Random freezes could be just about anything so that may come down to checking the HDD and RAM, running a bare-bones setup and considering a clean reinstall.

[LadyGrey]

Whoo you guys is rough teachers! I've got a 31 page lesson to get through and then a final to take, yeah I know, sorry bout my luck! http://www.pcguide.com/ubb/tongue.gif
Ok, the 98 computer will get it's lights, and make sounds but the blue HP screen comes up and that's it. No way to know if POST is happening or not. Just the screen that's it, that's all. mjc I don't have that one here with me so I'm goin on hearsay. Workin fine when it left me, and you do so know that, considering you all taught me, I'm ashamed or proud which ever way you want it, I done caught my teacher in a couple of things. http://www.pcguide.com/ubb/redface.gif http://www.pcguide.com/ubb/wink.gif
Now, Paul, love you darlin, I can't think straight with all this goin on. OK, first of all I think I said that these are Donated Computers from our community, they are not stock, they do not have what they should have in them, I am working from scratch. These have had Lord only knows what put in them, I don't know where they have been, but I've done the best I can and when they leave me they work, and I will guarenttee that with my life. I don't care about sequences sweetheart, all I know is I boot to a 98 disk, I run format or fisk which ever I can remember comes first and then I go from there. The computers don't seem to mind. Then if it's special case I will use Partition Magic, the older program, the one that works before Norton got hold of it and make a small partition to hold the malware utilties so I don't have to go find them again. That's all. This is what I'm talking about, the whole disk was FAT32 how can one and I mean that small partition get to be FAT16? It's makin me nuts!
Thanks and Love ya'll
LGhttp://www.pcguide.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Paul Komski]

how can one and I mean that small partition get to be FAT16?
I think it must have been FAT16 all along since DR-DOS cannot be installed in the same disk partition as a FAT32 drive. If you are unsure, ask your PC manufacturer. from http://www.drdos.com/dosdoc/qkstart/02ugch2.htm

Admittedly DR-DOS has a FAT-32 driver that can make other FAT-32 partitions visible to it (and some other makes of DOS) but unless more recent versions have intrinsic FAT-32 support I don't think it could have been installed onto a FAT-32 partition.

[mjc]

If I remember correctly, it will ask to reformat to FAT16 when installing...so that is how it got to FAT16

[Sylvander]

"computer will get it's lights, and make sounds but the blue HP screen comes up and that's it. No way to know if POST is happening or not"
Blinking LED's on the optical drives are the BIOS establishing contact with those as part of the POST.
A buzz from the FDD is the same.
The monitor screen only begins to display images supplied by the PC & video card when the POST has enabled the video card in the later stages of the POST sequence.
If you hit the "Esc" key the blue HP splash screen should shut down and you should see a display of POST info in white text on a black background.
That should show you info about the results of the tests the BIOS's POST is carrying out.
e.g. RAM tests successful or not; identification of all the drives found as a result of "Auto" detection.
[Any info there that would tell you what's going wrong?]
[Is the BIOS configured to "Auto"-detect? Try going into Setup (hit F2 instead of "Esc").]
All of this is quite good news [it could be worse] because you are getting to a fairly advanced step in the POST before it halts [probably due to the failure of some POST test].
Do you hear ANY beeps?
If not it means that the POST hasn't got to the point where it gives a single short beep just before it begins to load things from the HDD [that's the end of the POST].
And it also means that whatever step halted the POST isn't designed to generate warning beeps.
That's assuming that the internal speaker is working.
Try starting up the PC with all RAM removed, and if you hear warning beeps, then you know that the internal speaker [and all the rest of the system used to give beeps] is working.

[LadyGrey]

Thanks so much for all the help!! Now that you all are as confused as I am, which really I don't mean to dohttp://www.pcguide.com/ubb/redface.gif http://www.pcguide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif , I think I've just bitten off more than I can chew here lately. As for those darn HPs I went ahead and wrote zeros and then fdisked and then formatted again and I know for sure absolutely that the whole drive is FAT32. mjc I sincerely don't recall ever seeing anything about formatting in FAT16, maybe I was just going too fast for my own good and not reading! This whole thing has happened because someone thinks they know all about computers(no, not me), even though their information is years out of date, and doesn't even know what a wrist strap is and that you have to be grounded to stick your hands in a computer. Then wonders why the computer acts up after hauling them around in their trunk, or is dead after sticking their hands in them and frying the parts. http://www.pcguide.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Syl, that's the one that I don't have, it's in the older home and I haven't heard any more about it so I don't know what's going on. I have printed out your instructions and if I can get my hands on it I'll run through the list and let you know.

Any way, the one HP that I have here is running smoothly and no freezing at all in two days of running it and using it so we'll see. I put W2K back on it as 98SE doesn't have the drivers for audio and video and you can't get them. I don't have the other one and to tell you the truth I don't think I'll work on HPs any more. I've never seen a company who doesn't provide extensive updates and software downloads but HP doesn't and I mean the only updates were for keyboards or maybe a CD drive and though they support 98,ME and even XP there is no support for W2K. That's awful, even these old Dells and I do mean old, run just fine with 98SE and there are some older updates and drivers for them still to this day and I can find them with no problem.

The other HP is in a home that is old, I think like in the 70s.
Do you suppose that a poor power supply, such as power surges and sags would cause the type of freezing behavior that I'm seeing with the computers? I wonder if a UPS would steady the power. It seems to be just these two HPs though, all the others(DELLS) that I've worked on are up and running beautifully and some are in older homes as well. The only other thing I can think of is the afore mentioned person messing with them and then saying they don't work.

Thanks so very very much for all the help. If I find out what the problem is I'll post it so we will all know what and why.
Hugs,
LGhttp://www.pcguide.com/ubb/wink.gif

[mjc]

I think it just asks to reformat...and by default, if you read the docs it will be in FAT16. It has been a while, since I've installed it, so I may not be remembering it quite, right either...

For the HPs, most of the drivers were on the restore disks and never updated, so they never appeared on the HP upsdate site (they seldom put the original versions up on the site). Also, the HPs tend to be a bit easier to use generic drivers on. Their parts tend to be cheap 'white box' parts with an HP sticker (except for motherboards which also have a 'customized BIOS)...so the generic drivers from the manufacturer usually work. The trick is finding who the manufacturer of the part in question is...

Also, an HP Pavilion was a 'Home' machine...2k was a 'business' OS...I think you can figure out what was going on there... ;)

A UPS wouldn't hurt and could very well help.